Solar Eclipses And Human Magical Thinking Systems

wizards save us from eclipseThe human mind is alway prey to deep interior impulses we can’t consciously control, this being due to the operative parts are also the deepest and oldest parts or our brains.  We see this during the recent major solar eclipse that appeared in Asia yesterday.  Also, the first vaccine tests for the latest form of swine flu are now beginning in Australia.  So far, despite the hysterical fears of some parts of the internet, none of the people getting these shots are dropping dead.  Imagine that.wizards save us from eclipse

I always go backwards in time to review my own postings to see if my predictions are correct or my analysis stands up to the test of time.  This is why I try avoiding total hysteria.  Some people think, all hysterical reactions to the news are correct because leaders and the media lie to us.  This is just plain silly.  If we overreact to mainstream overreactions we simply are doing the exact opposite.  I happen to subscribe to the concept of ‘Libra’.

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That is, all things must eventually balance.  Taking time to carefully consider all elements is important to me.  Also, balancing information from all sources is equally important.  Totally disregarding mainstream information is a fool’s game.  Fine tuning information based on life experiences, intellectual abilities to think logically (probably the most difficult thing for humans to do) and above all, to recognize that our own brains are very flawed instruments with many layers of organism responses to data inputs, this means we often mislead ourselves as well as misinterpret information.

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For the vast, labyrinthian stygian darkness of the Cave of Wealth and Death is inside our own brain structures.  The forebrain structure is like a maze but the deeper, darker center literally buried in the deepest sectors of the physical brain: this is where the ultimate controls of our forebrains lives.  This is the part of the brain that produces our emotional responses to everything we experience including and most critically, our Dream World which our forebrains cannot even begin to control.

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So, first we visit the lastest swine flu news:

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First Trials of Swine Flu Vaccine Begin in Australia (Update1) – Bloomberg.com

CSL is testing the vaccine over the next seven weeks as it prepares to fill orders from Australia, the U.S. and Singapore. The World Health Organization and Melbourne-based CSL’s larger rivals such as Sanofi-Aventis SA will be watching the test to help determine whether one or two shots are needed to protect people and how many doses can be produced.

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“The fundamental data that we and others around the world are interested in are the immune response to the first and second dose,” Andrew Cuthbertson, CSL’s chief scientific officer, told reporters in Adelaide. The test results will also show the effects of different doses, he said.

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Volunteers are required to keep a diary for six months and record any signs and symptoms, including nausea, increased temperature and swelling around the injection area, Seaton said.

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If absolutely no one dies from these tests, I would  not be even slightly surprised.  Seeing all the major hysteria at many ‘alternative’ web sites over this whole business simply astonishes me.  Talk about irresponsible!  I have my own children who are adults and who have asthma.  The last thing on earth I want is for them to get this swine flu.  This is because asthma sufferers are more likely to die of it than the general population.  So I have a powerful, vested interest in seeing some sort of medical solution that may protect them.

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I feel so strongly about this, I would rather volunteer to die in their place.  If I could, I would volunteer for these tests since I feel extremely strong about this issue.  Many people are scared for themselves because they think they can simply sail through this epidemic, untouched, so they don’t want the rest of us to forge ahead, seeking some vaccine.  But I don’t have the luxury of this sort of delusional thinking.  If my own children were to suffer from this disease, it would utterly slay me as a functional human.  I fear, I could not survive the emotional suffering of this possibly happening.

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Gustav Mahler’s beloved daughter died of diphtheria at age 4 and this devastated both the composer and his wife.  When Lincoln’s son, Todd, died of tetanus, this drove his mother mad.  These things cannot be shrugged off as meaningless.  Vaccinations have saved the lives of several billion children during the last 100 years.  And spared many a parent a lifetime of regret and sorrow.

YouTube – Mahler- Kindertotenlieder 5

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Now, on to the solar eclipse: throughout history, humans have reacted to this event with tremendous fear.  Many religions and magical ceremonies which are embedded inside all religious belief systems stem from eclipses of the sun.  Eclipses are predictable and have zero dangers for any living things on earth.  Yet, even today, with modern astronomy at work, we see ancient fears ravaging whole civilizations when we have an eclipse:

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Solar Eclipse Plunges Millions Into Darkness in Asia (Update1) – Bloomberg.com

Indians offered prayers, Chinese gazed at the sky and astrologers predicted turbulent times as the longest full solar eclipse this century crossed Asia, plunging millions of people into temporary darkness.

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The lunar shadow began shortly after dawn on India’s western coast and lasted more than three minutes in some parts of the country, before heading through Nepal, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Myanmar and China.

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Tens of thousands of Hindus gathered to immerse themselves in India’s holiest river, the Ganges, in the northern city of Varanasi, causing a stampede. In Shanghai, tourists and locals wore special spectacles to protect their eyes as they gazed at the phenomenon.

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People were trampled to death, rushing about, trying to protect themselves from the fearful black magic of the moon.  And plunging into one of the most polluted rivers on earth, too, is interesting.  We know the Ganges is very polluted.  Far from cleansing anything, it endangers the health of anyone coming in contact with it!

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The marvel of the human mind is amazing.  Despite seeing visual proof (half-burned body parts, carcasses, rotting debris) floating on this open sewer, due to religious beliefs and teachings, the river is viewed as pristine pure and holy.  Like many similar holy rivers on earth, the believers cannot see reality because it is overwritten inside the brain.  The emotional part of the brain overwhelms the rational part, nearly totally.  Below is an old story from ancient China:

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The Story About Two Chinese Astronomers Who Failed to Predict an Eclipse of the Sun

A frequently recounted Chinese story says that Hsi and Ho, the court astronomers, got drunk and neglected their duties so that they failed to predict an eclipse ofthe Sun . For this, the emperor had them executed. So much for negligent astronomers.

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If this story were an account of an actual event, the dynasty mentioned would place the eclipse somewhere between 2159 and 1948 B.C., making it by far the oldest solar eclipse recorded in history. But all serious attempts to identify one particular eclipse as the source of this story have been abandoned as scholars have recognized that the episode is mythological.

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In ancient Chinese literature, Hsi-Ho is not two persons but a single mythological being who is sometimes the mother of the Sun and at other times the chariot driver for the Sun. Later, in the Shu Ching (Historical Classic), parts of which may date from as early as the seventh or sixth century B.C., this single character is split, not into two, but into six.

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In the Shu Ching story, the legendary Chinese emperor Yao commissions the eldest of the Hsi and Ho brothers “to calculate and delineate the sun, moon, the stars, and the zodiacal markers; and so to deliver respectfully the seasons to the people.” In further orders, he sends a younger Hsi brother to the east and another to the south; he orders a younger Ho brother to the west and another to the north. Each is responsible for a portion of the rhythms of the days and seasons, to turn the Sun back at the solstices and to keep it moving at the equinoxes.

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These mythological magicians are always charged with the prevention of eclipses hence the story that appears later in the Shu Ching about the emperor’s anger with his servants for failing to prevent an eclipse, not just predict or respond ceremonially to it. The story appears in a chapter that is an exhortation by the Prince of Yin, commander of the armies, to government officials to fulfill their duties to the administration, thereby making the emperor “entirely intelligent. “If anyone neglects this requirement, “the country has regular punishments for you.”

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Now here are Hsi and Ho. They have entirely subverted their virtue, and are sunk and lost in wine. They have violated the duties of their office, and left their posts. They have been the first to allow the regulations of heaven to get into disorder, putting far from them their proper business. On the first day of the last month of autumn, the sun and moon did not meet harmoniously in Fang.

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Many humans have been sacrificed to fix the eclipse events.  Throughout history, the killing of people to placate the gods when the moon eclipses the sun shows us clearly that humans respond to any astronomical event with greatest fear and fury.  This is also why the Christian popes subscribed to killing astronomers who rationally worked out the truth.  Astronomy was mostly supported by governments and religions only if these observations serviced whatever belief system that existed at that time.  That is, the status quo has to be protected.  So, if the society feared eclipses and sacrificed humans when it happens, if they learned that eclipses were totally harmless, they would brutally murder anyone who proves this!

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The battle to release the stranglehold religions have over reality is an ongoing thing.  One never wins this war, one can only expand the territory of rational, scientific knowledge.  All parties use ‘science’ to prove points.  But rational science not only accepts debate but encourages and actively desires debate.  People who are clinging to belief systems get angry when crossed and refuse debate.  Or worse, will debate but not rationally.  Evidence is tossed aside.  Or faulty or non-confirmable evidence is treated as a final result with no questioning of its truth via multiple tests.

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Then, there is the balance factor: there is no absolute science.  Today’s solutions are tomorrow’s changes.  This is the wonderful thing about science: it morphs constantly.  It wants to change all the time.  Religions are the opposite: they resist change.  The deepest parts of our brains is all about some sort of status quo.  This is because it runs on autopilot.  It doesn’t morph and change with incoming data.  It is extremely rigid.  This is why people often ‘rediscover’ their childhood religions in their old age.  The first religious teachings are done when a child is very young and this part of the brain is building up its superstructure for dealing with all challenges in life.

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Brain Emotion Circuit Sparks As Teen Girls Size Up Peers

Picture 16“During this time of heightened sensitivity to interpersonal stress and peers’ perceptions, girls are becoming increasingly preoccupied with how individual peers view them, while boys tend to become more focused on their status within group pecking orders,” explained Pine.

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“However, in the study, the prospect of interacting with peers activated brain circuitry involved in approaching others, rather than circuitry responsible for withdrawal and fear, which is associated with anxiety and depression.”

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I was fully aware of the functions of this part of the psyche back when I was a teenager.  Being a total social outcast due to the problems stemming from being raped as a child and then treated like a pariah by adults who were fearful of what knowledge I already had (sec, being an adult thing).  So I became suicidal.  And the thing that saved me was a religious impulse that was triggered when I prepared to kill myself.  Being artistic in nature, I went into the desert and climbed a tall foothill so I could see the Mountain of the Dead that rose a warning finger of rock to the heavens, due west of where I stood.  And at sunset, I prepared to sacrifice myself.

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Instead, I heard ‘voices’ which was the sighing of this doomed saguaro standing over me.  As the wind blew past its fluted sides, the wind sighed and sang and I could hear it in an animal sense.  And the saguaro said, ‘I am going to die and so will all my kind.  I stood here for hundreds of years but I can see the end.  You must live for me.’  And I live for her.  She is long dead.  All the saguaros around my parent’s ranch are now gone.  Annihilated by humans, for the most part.  I was part of what killed the saguaros, even though I moved away soon after this event.

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The speaking of this plant was an event that happened inside my own head.  Because of emotional despair, my rational brain was racing, desperate to save itself from the darker, inner parts.  And when my ears heard the song of the wind in the fluted sides of the 100 foot tall, multi-armed desert giant, my thinking parts grasped this straw and began talking to me, intertwining its own message of life with the forces of nature that surrounded me.  As a vulture flew overhead, moving towards the cliffs behind me, for the night, as the desert shrikes sang about the impending darkness, as the quail cheerfully chirped in the underbrush, as the sun set in full glory, I found myself balanced between life and death and my conscious part of the brain chose life, not the despair of death.

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Hypothalamus – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The hypothalamus is a portion of the brain that contains a number of small nuclei with a variety of functions. One of the most important functions of the hypothalamus is to link the nervous system to the endocrine system via the pituitary gland(hypophysis). The hypothalamus, (from Greek ὑποθαλαμος = under the thalamus) is located below the thalamus, just above thebrain stem. In the terminology of neuroanatomy, it forms the ventral part of the diencephalon. All vertebrate brains contain a hypothalamus. In humans, it is roughly the size of an almond.

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The hypothalamus is responsible for certain metabolic processes and other activities of the Autonomic Nervous System. It synthesizes and secretes neurohormones, often called hypothalamic-releasing hormones, and these in turn stimulate or inhibit the secretion of pituitary hormones. The hypothalamus controls body temperaturehungerthirst[1] fatigue, and circadian cycles.

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The hypothalamus is a complex region in the brain of humans, and even small nuclei within the hypothalamus are involved in many different functions. The paraventricular nucleus for instance contains oxytocin and vasopressin (also called antidiuretic hormone) neurons which project to the posterior pituitary, but also contains neurons that regulate ACTH and TSH secretion (which project to the anterior pituitary), gastric reflexesmaternal behaviorblood pressurefeedingimmune responses, and temperature.

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The hypothalamus co-ordinates many hormonal and behavioural circadian rhythms, complex patterns of neuroendocrine outputs, complex homeostatic mechanisms,[2] and many important behaviours.

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All animals that have spines have this system. This system is at least 300 million years old.  This system is all about darkness and light.  That is, one of the primary actions taken by the earliest proto-vertebrates was to use their new evolved eyes to tell darkness apart from lightness.  Instead of responding due to the action of sunlight on the body (like in plants) these new eyes were connected to new parts growing out of the spinal chord which was separate from the reaction of the chemistry of the outer skin which also ‘feels’ sunlight or darkness.

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Nearly all things that define us as ‘animals’ come from this part of the brain.  On top of this, the other parts are layered. But in a titanic battle between the thinking outer shell of the brain and the dark center of the ‘ur’ brain, the ‘ur’ can win, hands down, via the simple method of STARK NAKED FEAR.  This is why we must always be the most wary, when feeling fearful.  This is due to all fears being basically ‘irrational’  Thinking is very difficult since the paths we choose while thinking of things are actually set down not by the thinking mind, but this ancient, dangerous, emotional part of the brain.

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Impulses definition by Babylon’s free dictionary

Noun
1. an instinctive motive; “profound religious impulses”
(synonym) urge
(hypernym) motivation, motive, need
(hyponym) abience
2. a sudden desire; “he bought it on an impulse”
(synonym) caprice, whim
(hypernym) desire
3. the electrical discharge that travels along a nerve fiber; “they demonstrated the transmission of impulses from the cortex to the hypothalamus”
(synonym) nerve impulse
(hypernym) electrical discharge
(hyponym) action potential
4. (electronics) a sharp transient wave in the normal electrical state (or a series of such transients); “the pulsations seemed to be coming from a star”
(synonym) pulsation, pulsing, pulse

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Looking at the list of things associated with the word, ‘impulse’ is revealing, isn’t it?  It is all about religion and physics and the inner parts of the brain and how the electrical universe operates.  And remember: one of the biggest manifestations of this electrical nature is lightning.  Our brains are electrical.  We love electricity and surround ourselves with this force. It is the meaning of civilization.  Electrical things have an immense effect on our minds.  We use electricity to communicate.  And this disarranges the rational parts of the brain which finds it very difficult to concentrate when being disrupted by electricity.

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We all know about static electricity.  Every time I have been struck by lightning, for example, I find my sensitivity towards static electricity has fallen.  That is, before the strikes, I get all these electric shocks, touching things.  And this is very hard on my emotional states, too.  After being hit, I find resolution, internal as well as external.  I won’t have to wear gloves to open grocery store refrigerator doors, for example.

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http://brainmind.com/Depression.html

Because abnormal temporal lobe activity may wax and wane, and as various transmitters such as norepinephrine and serotonin may also wax, wane, and rebound, patients may also display labile and manic-like abnormalities. That is, they may easily cry, becoming angry and accusatory, and later feel more or less elated, and/or become convinced that they must take some action to save the world. .

For example, because religious ideation may be triggered by temporal lobe and amygdala hyperactivation (see chapter 9), patients may come to believe that they have taken up the sins of the world (e.g. messiah complex) and that it is up to them to act at the behest of God. Because the amygdala is interconnected with Wernicke’s area and the inferior parietal lobe, they may therefore “preach” and write out their psychotic religious beliefs. Moreover, because the amygdala maintains rich interconnections with the basal ganglia, as well as the frontal lobes and reticular formation, they may suddenly feel exceeding energized and aroused and motorically attempt to act out their delusional thoughts and feelings in a hyperactivated fashion. A diagnosis of manic-depression would therefore be likely.


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By definition, all great religious leaders are insane.  And so are the followers.  This is also curious for me since humans have moved increasingly from worshipping entities that are not human (Pegasus) to worshipping real humans who really existed.  All the ancient inner brain belief systems attached to ancient fears are piled onto mere humans who become semi or demi gods (heh).  Suggesting this process is at work can get one killed by ravening mobs of hysterics, by the way.

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The world is in the grip of a major bout of religious hysteria.  This affects EVERYONE.  Even ‘rational’ people are drowning in this collective freak out.  And one of the major driving forces is very, very ancient, in human religions: the shifting of the Zodiac.  The Heavens are not stable or eternal.  What we see on our earthly perch is subject to changes over time.  Slowly, the stars clusters that rise in the East on the Vernal Equinox, that moment of balance, cease to rise and new ones appear, very, very slowly, over the course of several hundred years.  During this period where the stars ‘degrade’ we get global religious chaos.

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We are entering such a period, today.  But since we evolved into worshipping humans and not star clusters, the confusion over all this is terminal.  The believers of various human-worshipping religions know, in their deeper parts of the brain, that the stars are shifting and the religious paths laid out in the past are now failing.  So they are praying for this to end the same why my dark part of my own brain decided to end it all: in death.  And the only way we have to avoid this is to have the rational parts of the brain override the darker parts.

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Below is an example of magical thinking I thought is of some interest:

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World Telekinesis Competition

DESCRIPTION . This is a game of competitive telekinesis in which two teams compete over a distance to psychically influence the behavior of a candle. The match is played by lighting a candle at the centre of the game board, signalling the beginning of the game. When the candle is extinguished the match is over. The object of the game is to have the wax from the candle drip onto the opposing team’s side of the board. This objective is accomplished by remote telekinetic influence.

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Teams are to be comprised of three (3) players.

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Team members are not required to compete from the same geographic location; however, it is the responsibility of the team to coordinate participation times among its composite members. Teams must agree to follow the rules and guidelines for competition, as set by the WTC.

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Gameboards for the competition can be downloaded from the downloads section of the WTC site. Candles can be purchased by individual teams for their own training and competitive use. While the official gameboard and candle will be located in Victoria (Canada), teams are encouraged to make use of the downloadable versions for concentration and/or meditative purposes.

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HAHAHA.  Humans would dearly love to believe, their brains can magically manipulate things.  Since all candles burn down, and since they all randomly deposit wax at various points around the perimeter, if humans believe they are influen.cing this, they can claim they controlled the flow of wax via their brains.  I have met humans who really believed they controlled the weather this way, just for example.  I find this all very hilarious since we can barely control impulses broiling out of the most animalistic parts of our own brains, much less, use our brains to control things.

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Many devotees of meditative religions like to claim various magical powers over the physical world, via magical projection of the brain.  When scientific thought is applied to these claims, they turn out to be either delusional thinking or frauds (yes, people lie, cheat and steal, even religious people, imagine that).  Here is another story about mystical things that are real but we have to examine carefully to see if these things really are real:

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Strange Clouds

February 19, 2003: They hover on the edge of space. Thin, wispy clouds, glowing electric blue. Some scientists think they’re seeded by space dust. Others suspect they’re a telltale sign of global warming.

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They’re called noctilucent or “night-shining” clouds (NLCs). And whatever causes them, they’re lovely.

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“Noctilucent clouds are a relatively new phenomenon,” says Gary Thomas, a professor at the University of Colorado who studies NLCs. “They were first seen in 1885″ about two years after the powerful eruption of Krakatoa hurled plumes of volcanic ash as much as 80 km high in Earth’s atmosphere.

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Ash from the Indonesian volcano caused such splendid sunsets worldwide that evening sky watching became a popular past time. One sky watcher in particular, a German named T.W. Backhouse who is often credited with the discovery of noctilucent clouds, noticed something odd. He stayed outside after the sun had set and, on some nights, saw wispy filaments glowing electric blue against the black sky. Scientists of the day figured they were some curious manifestation of volcanic ash.

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Eventually the ash settled and the vivid sunsets of Krakatoa faded. Yet the noctilucent clouds remained. “It’s puzzling,” says Thomas. “Noctilucent clouds have not only persisted, but also spread.” A century ago the clouds were confined to latitudes above 50o; you had to go to places like Scandinavia, Russia and Britain to see them. In recent years they have been sighted as far south as Utah and Colorado.

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In other parts of the media, there are claims that these clouds are signs of global warming.  I don’t know.  I do know that when volcanic eruptions happen, we get translucent clouds.  Right now, we are in a northern hemispherical translucent cloud that covers everything so we don’t see it. But if you look at at dawn and then look at the zenith, it is all a uniform milky white.  This is from the recent Japanese volcanic eruption.

Rocket launches cause translucent clouds, too.  And we have lots of these events going on all over the place.  These clouds then travel on prevailing winds so they can move many thousands of miles before dissipating.  Nature is a wondrous and dangerous thing.  Just as we can’t pride ourselves on making all events due to human agency, we also must understand the very imperfect functioning of our own brains.  And how this betrays our rational minds.

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At the same time, if we have no emotional parts that are dependent on social thinking, we get psychopaths who are without feeling.  These people are particularly dangerous because they DO have emotions, only these are the emotions of reptiles or fishes.  Eat or be eaten, that is.  A psychopath would love to scare other humans into making human sacrifices when the sun is eclipsed. And to do this, while cynically knowing that there is no danger and that if he fools everyone into thinking his magical brain power coupled with sacrifices, saved everyone from eternal death: that is the roots of all religions.

sunset borger

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110 Comments

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110 responses to “Solar Eclipses And Human Magical Thinking Systems

  1. ralph

    Elaine,
    Your idiocy continues. “So far, despite the hysterical fears of some parts of the internet, none of the people getting these shots are dropping dead. Imagine that.” “If absolutely no one dies from these tests, I would not be even slightly surprised.” Why would the vaccine co.’s kill people or hurt them in any way during a TEST? Australian Govt. than wouldnt give them their license to kill!!! Your IGNORANCE when it comes ot vaccines, their history, origin, and practice today are astounding for someone of your knowledge. Please read MURDER BY INJECTION: The medical conpiracy against America by Eustace Mullins. Than and only than after the facts are absorbed should you write anything about the virtues of vaccination and fluoridation. Your opinion is your opinion, but its based on no information. You are beginning to sound like a shill. Please don’t go that route.

  2. emsnews

    ARGh. HAHAHAHA. Sheesh. What on earth can I say? So, now you are claiming, no one will die in a test but everyone will die outside this? Good gods.

    You can believe whatever you wish. I don’t control anyone’s brains. I can’t even do good propaganda. If I did, I would have mindless followers. But do beware of being a mindless follower of someone else.

    Especially when that person is advising you to do dangerous things. I know people may long for the good old days when most people never reached adulthood. Welcome to the Black Plague!

    But seriously, anyone who wishes to debate with me the utility of inoculations better come armed with good population statistics proving the MORE children die young due to this compared to the pre-inoculation past. When around 30% or more died.

    Gads. Frankly, there is zero proof of inoculations killing masses of people. NO inoculation is PERFECT. Some people might have side effects. Sacrificing billions of people due to this potential side effect is insanity.

  3. Better to now wish for anything.

  4. Ughh – I’m dying (that for you OH)….

    better to NOT wish for anything.

    Disney can now sleep soundly.

  5. emsnews

    There are lots of magicians out there who love to tell people to do stupid things that end with the followers dying. I’ll never forge the insane religious craze in the hippie community where they decided they would live forever if they ate only brown rice!

    Oh my god. I had literally starving children come begging for food and I ended up feeding a number of these victims of adult insanity. Until I got fed up and started calling the cops on them.

    ‘You can starve yourself to death, but NOT a helpless child!’ I told everyone. This still disgusts me no end.

    There are many ‘counterculture’ liars out there and they love publishing fantastical stuff that just doesn’t survive in the light of reason.

  6. Elaine – I concur.

    Still with respect to the towers — 50-50.

    Sorry.

    A flip of the coin.

  7. w c

    Many humans have been sacrificed to fix the eclipse events. Throughout history, the killing of people to placate the gods when the moon eclipses the sun shows us clearly that humans respond to any astronomical event with greatest fear and fury

    yes .. and the abraham epic .( soon many will think the walking lady of liberty on a silver coin a real person)

    this period of time over many years called abraham and the child sacrifice .. is a lost in history event as a group of people rejected the idea of human sacrifice.. blame god . blame obedience . call the walking liberty lady real lol

    now then lets kill a dove lol

  8. w c if you kill a dove then I will face you one on one.

    You choose.

  9. w c

    ken

    Still with respect to the towers — 50-50

    heads w.c. win’s tails you lose

  10. w c – your already lost.

    I called you butt out from the get go.

    ha

  11. Boy, I’m glad we don’t have to face one on one because I remember the Ice Ages.

  12. w c

    ken the dove thing

    is the old religious idea to kill something.

    even humans in some parts of the past culture

    dove , goat, ..

    walk up to a log .. and hit it with a hammer of what the earth are you talking about ..

    you just killed a perfectly good symbol. . and then misunderstood the whole point /

    w c if you kill a dove then I will face you one on one.

    rather just spit a mouth full of mush

  13. and now how bout a flippant poem…

    There once was boy….
    who cried out – I’m just a boy.
    There once was a momma…
    Who said: I will stifle you.
    The momma was wise as only mommas can be.

    Super Smother Mother I think her name was.

    She lives on. Thank goodness for that!
    ______________
    end of poem and now back on ignore….

  14. w c

    buffalo_ken
    July 22, 2009 at 6:29 pm
    w c – your already lost.

    I called you butt out from the get go.

    ha
    the only thing you called was your own hubris //

    and looking in the mirror of your own ego/

  15. w c

    heres a poem

    ken and jill walked up a hill

    each with a pail of water

    jill ran screaming for the police as ken was all
    pail and no water.

    the only thing lost is your attempt to be the water ..

    buffalo_ken
    July 22, 2009 at 6:29 pm
    w c – your already lost.

  16. ralph

    “So, now you are claiming, no one will die in a test but everyone will die outside this?”
    Your insane! I never said the vaccinations would kill anyone. I said read the book so you can learn!!! Youll read thousands of pages of FED garbage, but won’t read one of the best researched books on vaccination and fluoridation??? Do some real research on these topics than comment on them. Ive read the book numerous times and cross refernced the information. Bottom line. You have 0 facts, only your own opinion of fluoridation and vaccination. Your site is good and donations for your efforts are worthy, but you gotta stop with the bullshit about fluoride,vaccination, and building #7.

  17. insanity test I read from elsewhere and I have no idea who came up with it:

    If you think you are more insane than your friends, then you are sane.

    If not, then you are the opposite.

    Ha, ha.

    Please, can we share a sense of humor.

    OK- gotta get back to the brats…

  18. w c

    buffalo_ken

    Please, can we share a sense of humor. lol

    good we will .. a nice exchange ,, thanks

  19. w c

    w.c \\

    interesting point of view on the abraham sacrifice issue ..

    why thanks for noticing and the dancing lady of liberty .. kind of clever ..

    do not mention it

    talking to myself on the raft in the middle of the ocean dream

  20. emsnews

    There are many ‘scary’ things out there that certain groups fear. Fluoride is one of them. Vaccinations is another. Dentists. Jet contrails. Bizarre diseases that no doctor thinks exist.

    I happen to not be one of these people. I don’t live in fear of many things. I fear WWIII. But I don’t fear global warming. I fear overfishing the oceans and manure polluting oceans but I don’t fear jet trails obscuring the sun (um, hahaha….).

    There are a zillion things to fear so we have to say, ‘There is nothing to fear but fear itself…and Hollywood celebrities. ‘ :)

  21. Matheus

    Elaine , will you write about the recent act of the chinese about the forex dump ?

  22. w c

    fear … running down the road and getting shot in my speedo pants lol

  23. Matheus

    About WWIII , seems israel is getting ready for it.
    I see a lot of military movimentation into entire Asia.

  24. hogwash.

    Poke in the eye to Israel directly from me.

    NOW.

  25. and sadly based on the history I have read Isreal only has one. Too bad for them.

    If they have another, I poke it out too.

    Get out.

  26. oooh here comes another corner.

    Who is monitoring who?

  27. isha

    The July 5 Riots in Xingiang
    By Ben Mah
    View [58]
    2009-07-18 12:20:45

    On July 5, 2009, a few days before the G8 meeting, a violent riot erupted in Urumqi, the capital city of Xinjiang Autonomous Region of China’s northwest. According to the New York Times dispatch from Beijing: “The rioters threw stones at the police and set vehicles on fire, sending plumes of smoke into the sky, while police officers used fire hoses and batons to beat back rioters and detain the Uyghurs who appeared to be leading the protest, witnesses said.”1.

    These are the most violent riots in decades in China, as hundreds of buses, motor vehicles and even police cars were burned, hundreds of innocent people also killed and injured, with homes and shops destroyed. 2.

    To many it is puzzling that riots of such a scale would erupt in Xinjiang when the region is experiencing phenomenal economic growth. The Chinese official position for the disturbance was due to external factor, and the main instigator was Rebiya Kadeer, a Uyghur woman who was imprisoned in China for six years for separatist activity. However, under the pressure from the United States, she was released under the pretext of medical parole and joined her husband in the U.S. in 2005. Her husband, Sidik Rouzi, who works for Radio Free Asia, has a close tie with the CIA. Like the Dalai Lama, Rebiya Kadeer has been promoted by a certain circle in Washington as the leader of the Uyghur people, and even nominated several times as a candidate for the Nobel Prize.

    In 2006, Rebiya Kadeer was elected president of the “World Uyghur Congress” in Munich. Prior to her German visit, her biography in German was released and well received. She was officially received by the Germany Foreign Ministry, and made her appearance at the German Federal Parliament’s Human Rights Commission and the party affiliated Foundations such as the Friedrich-Naumann Foundation. According to Germany Foreign Policy source, “Rebiya Kadeer’s appearance in the German capital has been carefully stage managed for high profile in conjunction with U.S. activities. Following the Dalai Lama’s Germany Chancellery visit, Berlin has been escalating its anti-Beijing secessionist offensive. For decades, Germany—including foreign intelligence circles—has been cultivating relations to Uyghur exile politicians.”3.

    One of the prominent exile politicians was Erkin Alptekin, who moved to Munich in 1971, and became “Senior Policy Advisor” to the director of Radio Liberty, which has close links to CIA.

    Alptekin conducted his separatist activity against China from Munich, culminated with the founding of the “World Uyghur Congress” in 2004. The World Uyghur Congress directed Uyghur exiles around the world, and many of the engaged separatist or even terrorist activities against China.3.

    In recent years, terrorist activities such as the use of violent bomb attacks against civilian targets have occurred in China, and in the aftermath of 9/11, China enthusiastically joined the international coalition against terrorism led by the United States in the hope that Washington would recognize the Uyghur separatists as terrorists. The Chinese government requested the United States hand over the Uyghurs captured in Afghanistan to China and tried as terrorists. Much to China’s disappointment, this request was refused by the United States, even after China donated hundred of millions of aid to Afghanistan. Moreover, George W. Bush stated his view on terrorism to the media before his bilateral talk with Chinese leader in Shanghai in 2001: “The war on terrorism must never be an excuse to persecute minorities…ethnic minorities must know that their rights be safeguarded-that their churches, temples and mosques belong to them.”4.

    Obviously, it is a wishful thinking on the part of Chinese decision makers to expect that the United States, the main instigator and supporter of the Uyghur secession movement would lend a helping hand to China for her fight against separatism. Since 1970s the CIA had already made contact with the Uyghur separatist leaders, and in 1998, the First International Conference of Allied Committee of the People of Eastern Turkestan, Tibet, and Inner Mongolia was held in New York. Among the participants were Clinton administration officials as well as members of U.S. Congress. Erkin Alptekin, the first Chairman of the Allied Committee, urged the American government to press China to negotiate with the parties involved and called for sending the U.S. fact-finding mission to China.4.

    On May 18, 2009, a little more than a month before the outbreak of the riots in Xingiang, the Third General Assembly of the World Uyghur Congress was held in Washington D.C. with active support of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). NED, established to carry out what was done covertly by CIA in the 1970s, was funded nearly 100% by the U.S. Congress. It in turn financed various opposition groups in engineering color revolutions in Eastern Europe and the former republics of the Soviet Union. In China, NED openly supports Chinese “political dissidents, human rights activities and Tibetan exiles,” together with Uyghur separatists, directly challenging China’s sovereignty.5.

    Indeed, China’s sovereignty was directly challenged when Carl Gershman, the president of NED delivered the keynote speech at the Third World Uyghur Congress in Washington on May 18, 2009. The conference itself was also funded by NED, and held in Capitol Hill, with hundred of members of the Congress present. China, Gershman declared, has not delivered a better life for the Uyghur people since the economic reform. “The Uyghurs face not just discrimination and harsh persecution but even the threat of cultural and religious extinction.”6.

    Gershman asserted that the Uyghurs are denied employment opportunities, and the oil and gas revenues are “rarely if ever invested in health and education programs for the Uyghurs…. This is also a general assault on the practice of Islam and on Uyghur national identity.”6.

    For the president of NED, the solution to the problem of Uyghurs in China is the Charter 08, a declaration issued by the dissidents in Beijing, which calls for “A Federated Republic” for China. He suggests “representatives of the Uyghur movement should meet now with signatories of Charter 08, in exile if it is not possible to conduct such discussion in China, and begin to negotiate the terms of what would constitute this ‘workable framework’ for a new federal republic of China.”6.

    It is obvious what Mr. Gershman has in mind is another color revolution in China, and the outcome to his liking would be a regime change and “A Federated Republic” of China. Such a Republic would be conformed to American geopolitical interests, in which the central government is decidedly weakened. Foreign capital can easily divide China into different spheres of influence, and she will become the economic and political colony of the United States. China will lose the independence of a sovereign nation, and instead, “a gigantic proxy for imperial powers, who will increasingly compete for dominance, using different sectors of the political elite, military, students and so on.”7. This will be a tragedy for China, as China will be a land of continuous ethnic strife and eternal conflict. Under this scenario, China will return to the 20s of the 20th century, where warlords backed by different imperial interests divided and ruled China amidst chaos, bloodshed and starvation among the Chinese people.

    Indeed, a weakened and divided China has been on the agenda and the expectation of Washington even at the time of Nixon opening to China. Henry Kissinger told the Taiwan Ambassador in Washington upon his return from the first Nixon trip to China that there was a possibility of an era of chaos and upheaval in China within five years. Nixon expressed the same view in his note to his Secretary of State, William Rogers.8.

    To further this end, the United States not only provide funds for Uyghur separatist activities, President Bush and Mrs. Bush also received Rebiya Kadeer at the conference on democracy and security held in Prague on 5 June, 2007. In his speech, the president praised Kadeer profusely:”Another dissident I will meet with here is Rebiya Kadeer, whose sons have been jailed in what we believe is an act of retaliation for her human rights activities. The talent of men and women like Rebiya is the greatest resource of their nations– far more valuable than the weapons of their army or oil under the ground.”9.

    One wonders what kind of logic the president has, as how can a person like Kadeer who committed crimes under the Chinese law and would do her utmost to seek secession of Xingiang from China be a greatest resource for that country. Perhaps Mr. Bush stated the obvious that the use of weapons and army to detach territories richly endowed with oil and other resources from China are not presently feasible. However, the use of dissidents to destabilize China is a distinct possibility, and Kadeer would be the greatest asset for America for that purpose.

    Indeed, the use of ethnic division and cultivating relations with dissidents of a given country for regime change or to break up a country has been successfully carried out in the former Yugoslavia and Soviet block. In the aftermath of violence in Xingiang, the Chinese government blamed the incident as “a pre-empted, organized violent crime. It is instigated and directed from abroad and carried out by outlaws in the country….Rebiya had phone conversations with people in China on July 5 in order to incite…and the Internet was used to orchestrate the incitement.”10.

    Unfortunately, the Chinese government did not dare to disclose the activities of Rebiya and others were funded by the U.S. government and the governments of Western Europe such as Germany which have escalated the secessionist offensive against China in recent years. The secessionist policy is also aimed at Inner Mongolia and Tibet. These objectives are to detach these territories from China, to increase Western influence for potential neocolonial exploitations, resource extraction, and weaken China for fear she would be a future potential rival.11.

    Incredibly, completely ignoring the serious implication for China, the Chinese authority under the pressure from the very power which tries its utmost to destabilize the country, would release a person like Rebiya Kadeer who was in jail in China to the United States. This action, in the eye of Western politicians, is a sign of weakness, and for this reason, they would have no hesitation to escalate secessionist offensive against China. 3.

    Unfortunately too, the Chinese government has not come to terms with the question of why riots can be so easily incited, as the Xingiang incident happened only after a little more than a year of the Tibetan riots of 2008. One may recall that a harmonious society without such violent conflict was the order of the day during the first 30 years of the People’s Republic. According to Asia Times, at the time of Mao era, “The working poor of China’s ethnic groups gave much support to the CCP government, and accepted their new socialist identity. Han and non-Han people became equal economically and politically, and the idea of ethnicity was gradually faded out by the idea of class.”10.

    However, under the neoliberal economic doctrine, there was a policy change in China, and the society has become polarized, with increased poverty as a result of factory layoffs coupled with the loss of social security, health care and even educational opportunities. Even after adopting measures favorable to the minorities in the area such as one-child policy, certain privileges in employment and others, many minorities such as the Uyghurs still complain “that they are being exploited or discriminated by the Han, many Han accuse the government doing the same. In the end, as China’s economy advances, political and economic equality between Han and non-Han is being undermined.”10.

    It is obvious that in the developing country such as China, political and economic equality is essential for maintaining social stability. The riots in Xingiang in 2009 should be a wake-up call for Chinese policy makers, and they should realize that the implementation of the neoliberal economic policy resulting in the polarization of the Chinese society is one of the root causes of social disturbance. On the other hand, the escalation of the “anti-Beijing secessionist offensive” on the part of the Western governments should also remind the Chinese people that imperial powers headed by the United States have been busy for decades to devise ways and means to detach resource rich territories such as Tibet, Inner Mongolia and Xingiang from China. To prevent future interference and further escalation of the “anti-Beijing secessionist offensive”, China must uphold its vital national interests and stop foreign governments from funding for separatist movements. China must start sanctions against Western commercial interests in China when her sovereignty is being challenged, and this should apply immediately to the United States and Germany in view of the recent funding and support for the secessionist activities against China. Otherwise the Chinese will have no security or safety in their homeland.

    Notes:

    1. Wong, Edward: “Riots in Western China Amid Ethnic Tension”, July 5, 2009 New York Times
    2. People’s Daily Online: “Death Toll in Xingiang riot rises to 140, still climbing” July 6, 2009
    3. German-Foreign-Policy: “Strategies of Attrition”, October 22, 2007
    4. Raman, B.: “U.S. and Terrorism in Xingiang”, July 24, 2004 South Asia Analysis.org
    5. Raman, B.: “National Endowment for Democracy of U.S.”, http://www.iefd.org
    6. Gershman, Carl: “The Uyghurs in China: Toward Real Autonomy”, May 18, 2009 http://www.uyghurcongress.org
    7. Petras, James: “Rulers and Ruled in the U.S. Empire”, P 162 Clarity Press 2007
    8. Tyler Patrick: “A Great Wall”, P144 The Centruy Foundation Book 1999
    9. Wikipedia: “Rebiya Kadeer”,
    10. Jian, Junbo: “Ghost of Marx haunts China’s riots” July 8, 2009 Asia Times Online
    11. German-Foreign-Policy.com March 17, 2008

  28. This is what happens when someone is just riding down a Dallas road with their lovely loving wife, and this someone happens to get their brains blown out into the wifes lap almost.

    Sometimes consequences are unexpected.

    That is shock.

    Shock & awe if you like, but not from me.

    9/11 was a travesty.

  29. isha – wow that is a lot of text….

    I’m busy, but if I had time I would read it all.

  30. Onion

    The wikipedia entry on the hypothalamus is science fiction. We do not have a scientific understanding of consciousness. We do have some scientific understanding of the motion of inanimate bodies in space-time. Prior to Einstein’s relativity, we had an erroneous understanding of the laws of motion. Our understanding with special and general relativity became “less wrong”. When it comes to consciousness, it’s not a case of being less wrong then before – we’re simply clueless. I took a course where the prof was a fan of evolutionary psychology – there was much unverifiable bull. I practised a style of meditation for years – the clarity of thought, logic and perception of the preceptors who described this tradition (from Vedanta), though they lived hundreds of years ago, seems much closer to modern science than the witterings of that evolutionary psychologist.

  31. mark

    Hi Elaine Supkis,

    I am amazed at ur blog writing. I like ur frank opinion especially about economy, however some of your other writings are based on your own crazy notions.

    Thanks,
    Mark

  32. petronorway

    Haha, I worship this blog therefore I am insane… :) I like it…..

  33. emsnews

    Sane people don’t read my blog. :)

    As for me not hewing to the party line, I never had in the past nor will in the future. I think therefore I blog whatever I want. I am a mystical person who loves being practical (motherhood does that to a person) and people think they can slice and dice stuff but hark: when you think I am wrong, usually, this is when I am totally right. See? One of the greatest mysteries of the mind is, when we are convinced we are right, we are not right.

    I go poking around for information to back up things I think about. And one of the things we must think about is the process of thinking: what is this?

    People pick up ideas like dogs get fleas. We lay down in the grass to read a book and fleas come hopping over. The point of reading IS TO GET NEW IDEAS. Fancy that.

  34. Dear Elaine, I generally enjoy your intelligent and well-researched posts. I am sorry to write in order to register disagreement, but your statement about Christian popes killing astronomers is simply a ridiculous falsehood. Copernicus was a canon of the Church and the Pope in office in his time was glad to see a new theory which provided more exact calculations of astronomical phenomena. It was only nearly a century later that the Church had a clash with Galileo, and that clash dealt with the nature of truth (or theory or hypothesis) not the heliocentric hypothesis as such. Furthermore, the Jesuits were leading astronomers; many craters on the Moon are named for the Jesuits.
    They were also noted explorers. There would be no modern Western science, astronomy or medicine, or many others, without the leadership and patronage of the church. So, it seems to me that you are indulging in anti-Christian, anti-Catholic bashing, and that you do not really have knowledge of what you are saying, but merely indulging in a handy prejudice to make yourself seem cool and hip.

  35. Perhaps the best swine flu info in English is available at

    http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/

  36. PLovering

    Rachel Corrie was a young American, killed by an Israeli bulldozer while defending Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip.

  37. Joe

    Oh Elaine…why is it that you insist on defining what others believe in an emotional attempt at avoiding facts which contradict your own beliefs?

    How do you feel when writing on 9/11 and swine flu? Do these feelings inhibit reason?

  38. Joe

    I must say though that your analogy and description of consciousness using your own memories is superb.

    I just can’t square how someone with such wonderful insight and investigative ability so easily abandons those very qualities for those she so often identifies as bad logic in other debates?

  39. emsnews

    This desire for me to not debate things but to join in a happy chorus that is funneled through various belief systems is amusing but if I were this sort of person who was lockstep with these particular belief systems I wouldn’t be able to analyze anything.

    So bear with me and remember: reread this stuff 5 years from now. This is the real test.

    About the swine flu vaccine fears: remember, the technology of making vaccines have advanced a great deal in the last 30 years.

    About the Church: um, Bruno was burned at the stake and poor Galileo was threatened with this same fate so he retreated. The Church shut down astronomical studies due to religious bigotry. Only the Reformation stopped this process. By then, the astronomical publications moved to liberal Amsterdam, and didn’t come back to Rome for well over a century.

  40. David

    Elaine:
    “The Heavens are not stable or eternal. What we see on our earthly perch is subject to changes over time. Slowly, the stars clusters that rise in the East on the Vernal Equinox, that moment of balance, cease to rise and new ones appear, very, very slowly, over the course of several hundred years. During this period where the stars ‘degrade’ we get global religious chaos.” [and possibly lots of human craziness and wars and turmoil]

    Elaine, this theory makes perfect sense to me.
    As a high school teacher of many years, I could tell when the moon was full by the activity levels of students, and their hyperactivity and increased instances of trouble making…steady as clockwork…month after month, year after year.

    I do subscribe to the notion that human thinking is affected by the magnetic pull of the moons and planets and stars in various combinations pulling more this time than that and more this way than that…right or left or up and down…as in relation to human’s patterns of activity routines in their lives…

    So, in my totally unproven notion, you might be onto something in relation to earth changing events and upheavals. I noted once, that this last major aggression by our empire seemed to come about because we appeared to become tired of peace and prosperity and brotherhood with others around the world…and many, many people seemed to me to go off the deep end in relation to wanting to kill everyone who was not like us….almost mass insanity…much like Germany under Hitler.

    With or without leaders, this does appear to happen periodically…so your notion might have some credence.

    I will pass over comments on the vaccines and other stuff, but, Elaine, you might want to explore genetic engineering…so many things are possible…and if your theories of planets provoking fear and a dark side of our natures, you might come to realize that new genetic engineering methods can be applied for good or evil…and if the dark side is presently in control, human good intent might be stifled to some extent nowadays…until the planets move and things change…just some thoughts.

    Overall, I really liked the article and it hit home with some observations that I, and every other school teacher will probably confirm.

  41. PLovering

    @ Caryl Johnston

    Your post was pure delight.

    However, the next time you bash Elaine, don’t diddle around — pour your heart and soul into it.

    Can’t drive a nail with a tack hammer.

  42. David

    Isha:

    Great post. Thanks. It is bringing together a picture in my mind of where things might be headed. Someone posted, or maybe it was Elaine or someone else wrote about a US approachment to Russia to undercut its alliances with China and others….and with the South Ossettia thing, we can see what goals appear to be, and how they are intended to be achieved…oil from Iraq and domination of the Middle East, and a go from there, expanding outward…with major players being Israel, US Zionists, Christian hard liners/end timers, oil companies, financiers, corporatists, CFR and ruling elites, and military-industrial complex with unneeded US young as cannon fodder.

    And the plan for domination of Eastern Europe and Asia has long been in the works…and appears to again be on track.

    Junior ROTC programs came to most high schools way back in the early Clinton years when I was teaching, and one of the ROTC instructors who was a friend of mine, a former Special Forces Sergeant, quit and hired himself out as a mercenary to budding private military contractors way back then…and first went to Bosnia, and I lost track of him after that.

    So, Isha, I think that what Elaine is writing about, in relation to a possible WWIII, is very real and very dangerous, especially as China and Russia are increasingly pressured to give in to US financial and corporate domination. And, if a confrontation appears to be forming, I question, will the dark natures of our present leaders keep pushing until a huge scenario explodes?

    China and Russian will not separate…if they do, they know they will lose all leverage against being overrun and colonized by Western forces….and, friends, from my long study of Russian history, that ain’t gonna ever happen. When, to defend the motherland, Russia sent wave after wave of poorly armed troops into the jaws of death to preserve itself…nope, it ain’t gonna happen…and China is well aware of what playing with Westerners has historically cost them…so I do not predict a separation of the two by diplomatic means…although, I can understand why China appears to be a target for creating unrest. Maybe, their willingness to cooperate with US industrialists is seen as a major weakness by those who are the driving forces for this scenario.

    Still, I do not see China as weak…it has industrial strength and increasing technical strength, but a critical stage is being reached where its technology might, in a few years be on par or at some point, outclass Western nations…and then, in the eyes of Westerners, this would be too late.

    The only limited war scenario that I can envision is in relation to a trade off of nations that might be causing trouble in return for oil, and a hands off in relation to US military actions against more oil procurements, but the people involved make this scenario unlikely, although there is always the obscure chance of back door diplomacy that would allow it.

    This either/or thinking in relation to all of this is leading us on a very dangerous path.

    Thanks again Isha.

  43. nah

    modern medicine ranks up there with refrigerators and radio
    .

    .
    give me 8 bits and I will give you one byte

  44. criticalcontrarian

    @Onion: spot on. Defining ethereal knowledge with a material tool, the brain and mind, is like trying to collect water with a net. To experience spiritual consciousness one has to release the sould from the clutches of mind.

    Vedantic meditation is better than most, however, it is still characterized by external asana which affect your degree of internal concentration, which is why I passed on this form of med.

  45. criticalcontrarian

    Ehh, sorry about that typo, I meant “to release the “soul” from the clutches of mind”.

  46. roger

    at first impressions as in a flash,then something is distinguished,after that ideas of quality are developed,leading to a definition of a thing or phenomenon,subsequently ideas of quantity then study and reflection direct the thought to questions of identity and difference-basis-essence,all these moments or steps of knowledge are directed from the subject to the object (Just a thought)

  47. criticalcontrarian

    That is called insight, and it is brought on by a focused mind. Multitasking is way over rated it scatters the mind which is the cause of all suffering.

  48. Joe

    No one is trying to stop you from debating. I think that is what is wanted. You seem not to. Explaining why people believe irrational and false things is not debate. Facts are to be debated. I have not seen many in this discussion.

    So why is fluoride not used in all western, developed countries? Why am I told my toddler should not to use fluoride toothpaste, yet his pediatrician wants me to add it to our water? What exactly does the aluminum industry do with all its fluoride waste? Could it be that dental hygiene is responsible for the increase in dental health? Same argument with vaccines whose success stories ignore that many of these diseases were diminishing on their own, prior to introduction of respective vaccine.

    Why don’t the Amish have increased mortality rates due to commonly vaccinated diseases?

    Are we just to ignore the fact that Baxter pharmaceutical mixed large quantities of live virus with vaccine shipments? Don’t worry about how ‘secured’ vials got mixed with legit vaccines, they’ll get the logistics figured out eventually. Besides they paid a fine.

    What’s gonna happen in 5 years. Millions die from the flu and your vindicated? Or is it tragedy averted therefore you were right about the vaccine and it’s effectiveness?

    My mother had a stomach virus. Doc gave her anti-biotics which kill beneficial stomach enzymes and such. This treatment resulted in hospitalization for her digestive system was no longer able to hold or process nourishment.

    All she freakin needed was some yogurt. I had to bring it to her at the hospital myself. Funny if it weren’t so pathetic.

    Vaccine???? Don’t think so.

  49. criticalcontrarian

    @Joe: yoghurt, macrobiotics, yes! You ask the right questions. My brother-in-law passed away last week of liver cancer. He was a stickler for using all available traditional medicines, regular monthly tests, blood works, spent a fortune on doctors, scans, hospitals in his effort to keep healthy. In the end, it killed him, the prescribed medicines for his diabetes and heart (bypass and stent veteran) were what caused the cancer. I always warned him, proper diet, exercise and preventive therapy, but it was inconvenient. I told him dying was much more inconvenient, but that is history. All our problems whether political, financial or health need to be addressed holistically, but its not ingrained in current thinking. Too sad.

    BTW, I choose not to have any of these vaccines, and have implemented a protocol to create a hostile environment in my body to aerobic bacteria, viruses and fungi. I live in a tropical climate, and we currently in the midst of full rainy season (monsoon). 3 days of continuous rain is not abnormal. I do not have tonsils or adenoids, when I was young it was fashionable to have these taken out to help diminish catching flu, etc. Of course, turns out the opposite is reality. So all my life I have had allergic rhinitis, sinus, flu 4-6 times a year. Not anymore. And its not thanks to Baxter, Pfizer or any of the elite profit centers. One of the most useful questions one can ask is, qui bono? I live by it.

  50. shockuhzulu

    You didn’t kill yourself because you knew there was still a purpose for your life, and you were sane enough to see that. I too felt things extremely deeply when I was young and contemplated suicide once briefly, but I feared God and knew I must go on with my life. The young simply don’t have enough life experiences to know that things will not always remain the same. So many changes we go through. I spent years in self-destructive behavior unfortunately.

    I don’t credit chemistry with any power to influence my thinking. It simply is the means by which my body functions. I have a deep conviction that I will live until God’s purpose for my life has been fulfilled, which is one reason I don’t fear the future, whatever may come.

  51. w c

    one of the best in my opinion

    http://www.drstevemorris.com/about.html

    a visit tomorrow at 9.00 am pacific

  52. mind control

    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion5.htm#protocol No. 13
    3. In order to distract people who may be too troublesome from discussions of questions of the political we are now putting forward what we allege to be new questions of the political, namely, questions of industry. In this sphere let them discuss themselves silly! The masses are agreed to remain inactive, to take a rest from what they suppose to be political (which we trained them to in order to use them as a means of combating the GOY governments) only on condition of being found new employments, in which we are prescribing them something that looks like the same political object. In order that the masses themselves may not guess what they are about WE FURTHER DISTRACT THEM WITH AMUSEMENTS, GAMES, PASTIMES, PASSIONS, PEOPLE’S PALACES …. SOON WE SHALL BEGIN THROUGH THE PRESS TO PROPOSE COMPETITIONS IN ART, IN SPORT IN ALL KINDS: these interests will finally distract their minds from questions in which we should find ourselves compelled to oppose them. Growing more and more unaccustomed to reflect and form any opinions of their own, people will begin to talk in the same tone as we because we alone shall be offering them new directions for thought … of course through such persons as will not be suspected of solidarity with us.

    6. Who will ever suspect then that ALL THESE PEOPLES WERE STAGE-MANAGED BY US ACCORDING TO A POLITICAL PLAN WHICH NO ONE HAS SO MUCH AS GUESSED AT IN THE COURSE OF MANY CENTURIES?

  53. Duski

    “Sane people don’t read my blog.”

    Hahaha! And just as I was about to post about my problems with dealing traumas in the past, that still affect me when I get stressed.

  54. criticalcontrarian

    I think this falls under “Magical Thinking Systems”. Watch Rep. Nancy Kaptur rip the top A-Hole a new one. Watch his face turn tomato red. Priceless!

  55. criticalcontrarian

    And before I forget, that video exposes the benevolent Warren Buffett for what he really is, a GNOME. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

  56. Hey cc – great video link above. I hope everyone is “paying” attention.
    :smile:

    Yep – a red tomato head…..

    She is tough and I like her. I knew Ohio was a great state!

  57. criticalcontrarian

    Off topic, you’re going to get a kick reading this one BKen! http://tinyurl.com/cvwzqg

    It’s all in the translation and interpretation isn’t it? 134 versions of the Holy Bible and counting, 134 different types of Christians who don’t see eye to eye.

  58. thanks cc – it doesn’t really surprise me that there are “134 different types”. I just think that when a “group” or a “community” if you will exceeds a certain number of individuals, then disagreements are inevitable.

    Nonetheless, if an initial agreement can be made to “agree to disagree” (what is that term I-Ching – sorry, if I have it wrong), then I think this paves the way for much possible reconciliation that is mutually beneficial.

    Well – it is time soon for the “morning constitutional”.

    All my love cc.
    Ken

  59. oh but I should add, that the response to a “disagreement” matters just as much.

    A harmful response obviously merits justified retribution.

    So the steps are:

    1. Agree to disagree.
    2. Agree to keep on talking afterwards.
    3. Do no harm.
    4. If you do, expect a response.

    This is premised on the idea the from a military standpoint, defense is preferable and defense generally prevails (maybe always) in the long run.

    Time for a walk.

  60. David

    MC:
    “Who will ever suspect then that ALL THESE PEOPLES WERE STAGE-MANAGED BY US ACCORDING TO A POLITICAL PLAN WHICH NO ONE HAS SO MUCH AS GUESSED AT IN THE COURSE OF MANY CENTURIES?”

    Yes, MC. And the Internet has given us great and varied ways of debating the issues of our day.

    The dearth of information from mainstream media is pure torture for inquiring minds…sensory deprivation…just like at Gitmo…so it drives us to alternative sources like the Internet…or is the Internet really an alternative source?

    I think we all need to be aware that Internet sites and blogs are just cheap and easy ways to lay out safe, parallel courses for us to follow, and when our minds resist the unreasonableness of what we see happening here and there in the world, we are given alternative, but safe scenarios to follow…and new debates that lead in pre-framed directions.

    You see, for a long time, duping the masses has been the way of doing things in the US, and we’re now getting back on track a little in relation to this governing principle after 8 years of stupid, heavy handed, club fisted governance by Bush co….now the governing methods have changed, but the goals are the same…and are even more on-track than before…when Bush co. committed huge errors in relation to public governance… and some of what was not supposed to be openly seen by the public was shoved right up into everyone’s face…from faked scenarios to allowing outright criminality to run rampant over the public purse…

    But, Bush co. admirably accomplished its main goals, even with all of its massive blunders and heavy handedness…and the public was cowed and robbed of its many years of labors and accumulated wealth.

    But, now we are back on track, using duplicity as the main means of ruling the public, at least for the time being, unless things begin to get out of control, and we can be assured that the heavy handedness will again appear as before.

    We are like Neo in The Matrix series. We think we know what we are, and we think we know the general enslavement plan, but when our minds resist the unreasonableness of it all, we go on mental adventures, searching for truth…

    And our main source might be the Internet, and, in my case, history, but we all know that the Internet might present a parallel path of thought, pre-framed for our delighted consumption, and history is always written by the winners.

    And when you think you have it all figured out….you’re wrong.

    Elaine is right when she says, “See? One of the greatest mysteries of the mind is, when we are convinced we are right, we are not right.”

    So, how do we know what to believe? Keep reading, keep connecting to the real world and events and people…

    As I continue my mind adventure, I seek to observe the real, what might be and what is. Often much is theoretical, and much is false.

    If I were promoting something to which I know there is much resistance, I might put up a website that might be pushing an opposite scenario from what I might be promoting so I could guide the “true believers” in this direction or that.

    So what we read on all sorts of blogs and websites can be misleading….even several different blogs that promote the same thing…because a series of sites can be cheaply set up to promote the same things in different ways….cyberwarfare against inquiring minds.

    So, to seek glimpses of truth, I think you have to develop a bit of an instinct for it…if that is possible.

    Often, I read something…and a year later when I read something else, a light clicks on and I get a glimpse of light…often truth appears when we get glimpses from distantly related sources that seem to mesh perfectly. This event occurred in this sector that compliments an event that appeared in a different sector…and we get a glimpse of the plan, as Neo did.

    Elaine said, “The Apocalypse machine is very slippery and I have yet to find some mechanism to move it to another direction. But I think about this matter a lot. I find, people can’t even begin to understand the forces at work because of the very nature of these forces (the religious part of our brains, that is) so I still haven’t gotten a grip on this matter.”

    I agree with Elaine on this. I catch glimpses of things that frighten me, but these too might just be to push and shove opponents or my thinking in different desired directions, so I cannot give absolute credence to these things without proof.

    And plans change and scenarios change…and people change with them.

    And as Neo discovered, things are not always as they seem.

    I am, however, addicted to the adventure and the search for glimpses of truth…and I have met many great people on this blog and in other places along the way.

    After all, its cyberspace…the wild west of the mind…a frontier of ideas and competing agendas.

  61. Onion

    The Church of England has decided to allow bastards to be blessed at their parents’ wedding ceremony. The many absurdities of this particular magical thinking system are thrown into sharp relief here:

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/church-offers-voodoo-water-ceremony-to-protect-your-bastards-from-satan-200907231925/
    :)

  62. JSmith

    “Solar Eclipses And Human Magical Thinking Systems”

    Solar eclipses cause earthquakes. And epidemics. Every primitive tribesperson knows that!

    Elaine: “Sheesh. What on earth can I say?”

    I’m with you there. The anti-vaccination crowd has to explain away the near-total eradication of smallpox, polio, and similar diseases that used to break out regularly.

    The original anti-fluoridation crowd were the Birchers, who thought it was a Commie plot. However, lots of people still have all their own teeth due to fluoridation. The problem is that it is possible to use too much: as with any medication, More’s Law (“if some is good, more is better”) does not hold.

    “Brain Emotion Circuit Sparks As Teen Girls Size Up Peers”

    Not at all surprising that the structure shown is the hypothalamus. That part of the brain deals with reactions to the environment; the “rational” areas that deal with conscious thought came much later.

    Those primitive brain areas deal with decisions any animal in the wild needs to make quickly: “What is that thing over there? Is it like me? Not like me? Is it a predator, prey, or neither? Is she going to make fun of me???”

  63. Gary

    Saw a great bumber sticker in Tacoma the other day. It said, “Dont Always Trust What You Think”

    Ha ha.

  64. Daliwood

    A down-to-earth look at human psychology in the context of contemporary society is Gordon Livingston’s Too Soon Old, Too Late Smart. It’s not the folksy, smarmy, feel-good crap of a self-help book, but a commentary on how we have been manipulated–and how we have manipulated ourselves–into being afraid of all the wrong things. Livingston reminds me of Emerson with a writing style that offers many memorable quotes that have helped me see my world more clearly. For instance, “If the map doesn’t match the ground, the map is wrong.” Sounds simple, but it’s amazing how many people, such as the religious ones Elaine mentions, won’t change their minds (maps) when the ground (reality) clearly shows them to be wrong.

    I recommend the book highly. Reading it is not a life-altering experience, but it is a refreshing and candid commentary on lives driven by the wrong fears. Livingston has a true gift for taking complex ideas and putting them in plain English, making those ideas accessible and meaningful to even the casual reader.

  65. criticalcontrarian

    Is El Presidente Obama showing lack of practice reading the script, or running out of competent scriptwriters?

  66. emsnews

    Running the White House drives people mad. Reagan simply went oblivious (alzheimers) so he had no idea what the hell was going on there. But anyone smart goes crazy because they try to control events via the various levers of power WHICH DO NOT WORK ENTIRELY. Far from it.

    This is also why emperors go insane, kings go mad and despots despoil themselves. Once, in a mythical way, I was offered the chance to ‘rule millions, turn them into your slaves’ and I said, ‘How horrible is that? They will enslave me! I would have to constantly order them around. No thanks.’

    Seriously, the worst thing that can happen to any human is for them to become rulers.

  67. David

    CC:
    As Neo eventfully discovered, after taking the red pill, it was, in reality, being offered as a parallel course of adventure by the same people who were feeding false information to Morpheus (a true believer) who offered Neo the red pill. So, our great hope’s scriptwriters need to bone up on their matrix…or maybe they already have, and then, for whatever reason, added the pill color twist just to throw a little smug irony at us.

    Thanks CC.

  68. JSmith

    “…fluoride,vaccination, and building #7″

    ..attract nutters like you wouldn’t believe it.

    Joe asked: “Why don’t the Amish have increased mortality rates due to commonly vaccinated diseases?”

    Non-vaccinators like the Amish benefit from an effect the epidemiologists call herd immunity: the non-vaccinators are surrounded by a sufficiently large vaccinated population so that there is just not enough ambient pathogen around to infect them.

    Non-vaccinators are what the economists call free riders: they benefit inordinately from the risks/costs borne by others.

    You’re welcome.

  69. I think it is important to differentiate between long-standing vaccinations for diseases such as polio and the current-day swine-flu-bird-human vaccination situation.

    This flu seems to be very fast-moving (in many ways). Without even getting into all the other potential downsides for vaccination, I question whether or not between the time the vaccination doses are prepared and the time they are actually given that the virus will (may) have already mutated such that the vaccination efficacy diminishes considerably.

    Furthermore, if you have ever worked in a technologically advanced production process operation (I have), you should know what happens when there is a high-pressure “rush-job” – usually mistakes are made. For a vaccination, mistakes can be the difference between life and death. Not trying to be dramatic, but its true.

    So it seems to boil down to this. What is the lowest risk proposition. Again, given the fact that the mortality rate (I think that is the correct term) for this flu has been less than 1% (I thought I read a 0.46% figure earlier), I think the lower risk choice is to refuse any vaccination, but to still take all necessary, feasible, and reasonable precautions to both avoid exposure and properly respond in the event exposure occurs.

    Don’t worry Smith if I catch the flu, I will go into hiding, and more than likely, when I come out I will have a most solid anti-body defense that will more than likely be preventative even for future mutations. This is a valid consideration and that is my plan, and lastly, I suppose I’m done talking about this for now.

  70. Dear Elaine,
    Thank you for answering. I would agree that it is generally believed that Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake. However, interestingly, there is no record of it. Galileo was under house arrest for a while, and finally died peacefully in his bed. The Church authorities requested that he teach the new astronomical theories as an hypothesis, not as a literal truth. For our great perspective we can laugh at this and consider it absurd. Yet one of the issue of the late Renaissance was the relation between literal and symbolic – quite rightly the Church was concerned with the long-term prospects for moral teachings if truth became totally identified with what is “literal.”
    I am not trying to deny that the church made some bad mistakes in his history and committed some egregious evils. Nevertheless I would find it refreshing if someone for a change were to consider how much more hypocritical we are today. It is easy to ridicule the church because it stood for something. Nowadays we just have committees and committees of committees and no one is accountable for anything!

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
    ELAINE: No record of the burning at the stake of an astronomer???? Gads. Hard to debate insanity.

  71. Dear Elaine,
    Thank you for answering. I would agree that it is generally believed that Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake. However, interestingly, there is no record of it. Galileo was under house arrest for a while, and finally died peacefully in his bed. The Church authorities requested that he teach the new astronomical theories as an hypothesis, not as a literal truth. From our great perspective we can laugh at this and consider it absurd. Yet one of the issue of the late Renaissance was the relation between literal and symbolic – quite rightly the Church was concerned with the long-term prospects for moral teachings if truth became totally identified with what is “literal.”
    I am not trying to deny that the church made some bad mistakes in its history and committed some egregious evils. Nevertheless I would find it refreshing if someone for a change were to consider how much more hypocritical we are today. It is easy to ridicule the church because it stood for something. Nowadays we just have committees and committees of committees and no one is accountable for anything!

  72. mind control

    I am not saying that people will die in large numbers immediately. This is certainly possible, but it would hardly encourage others to continue to be inoculated. The effects may be immediate in some, probably medium or longer-term in most, to hide the true source of their problem. What we do know is that we are seeing a long-prepared plan for mass vaccination by people who could not care less about the health of the population. That says everything about the real motivation, but only those in the shadows know what the effect is designed to be.

    For sure, it will involve targeting the human immune system. Once that has been disabled, it’s over as we see with the immune-destroyer we call AIDS. People don’t die of AIDS, they die of diseases the immune system would normally deal with.

    http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/25191

  73. PLovering

    @Caryl Johnston

    On the one hand I admired the Pope’s decision to welcome back Holocaust bishop, Richard Williamson. The Pontiff showed guts and principles in making that decision.

    On the other hand, watching Rome’s financial Lizards force the Pope to dash off and kiss the wailing wall for his Williamson decision puts the righteous in disgusting.

  74. emsnews

    Mind control, note how everyone who has been screaming about how we will all die of inoculation shots will start hedging this story to death.

    I won’t be a fear monger. The people who do this stuff are doing it because scaring people is fun. Trust me on this. People running the government tried this with the stupid ‘terror alerts’. Always used when it was convenient to scare people.

    Don’t trust ANYONE. If there is a conflict between predictions of various parties, check it all out to see if past predictions were good. I have an excellent record with predicting things.

    About AIDS: one of the undesirable side effects of mass inoculations without good sanitary controls is, diseases will mutate so they spread in other ways. The sex practices of the sexual revolution, which incidentally took off because ‘there is a cure for all sexual diseases, let’s party!’

    Well, sex became really dirty after 1960 and so sex diseases began to rapidly mutate in this new, wild environment. Now, we have a massive population that goes about having all sorts of ‘out of marriage’ sex (like half of the GOP politicians and their families!) and this is a grand environment for germs to spread as well as mutate.

    The bacterial community is doing the same: all the anti-bacterial drugs have grown less and less effective as the bacterial community which is quite different from the virus empire, exploits all sorts of evolutionary niches.

  75. JSmith

    …”the lower risk choice is to refuse any vaccination…”

    The lower pain in the butt choice, too. The vaccinations I’m talking about are for polio, smallpox, etc. – serious stuff. Flu kills some, but I don’t get flu shots because of… yep. Herd immunity. Enough people get flu shots to afford me some degree of protection without going to the trouble of getting a shot. (Which makes me a free rider, too!)

    Giordano Bruno

  76. Joe

    JSmith- Try actually understanding what it is your talking about.

    Herd immunity theory proposes that, in diseases passed from person-to-person, it is more difficult to maintain a chain of infection when large numbers of a population are immune. The higher the proportion of individuals who are immune, the lower the likelihood that a susceptible person will come into contact with an infected individual.[2]

    There is not ambient virus spreading to unvaccinated persons as you tried to redefine the term to fit your beliefs. If anything the Amish are a greater risk. If a virus was to enter their community then they would be devastated for they do not have herd immunity.

    Please Elaine, enough with the scare tactics. There are many scenarios that I and others would believe that do not involve millions of deaths due to vaccination. You are not practicing what you preach. Did you ever think maybe the stories of vaccines being used to cull the herd are only there to misdirect the story and hide true motives, those of profit. Deaths and complications will just be some of the unintended consequences.

    I am also confident that just as many Democratic politicians and lawmakers engage in ‘out of marriage sex’. Do not contribute the the dividing of our people.

  77. Joe

    …and how in the world did we eradicate the Black Death and the many other diseases the mankind dealt with before vaccines.

    Diseases come and go as the dance between theirs and our evolution rolls on…vaccine or no vaccine.

  78. emsnews

    What scare tactics am I using? This virus is spreading like wildfire…in summer. And in England, 68 people are in intensive care and 700 are in the hospital due to this thing. And it has barely begun.

    And people are scared of flu shots? Wow.

  79. Joe

    It is in the way that you are attempting to define opposing positions. Focus on your own. Marginalizing opposition is not the way to persuade.

    BBC today-
    “About 100,000 people caught swine flu in England last week, the chief medical officer revealed today, as the government’s online diagnosis service crashed within minutes of launch when thousands of people tried to log on at the same time.”

    “The Department of Health said there were hopeful signs, producing a revised death rate that showed lower than anticipated fatalities and suggesting there could be a “lull” in infections over the summer.”

    “Within the same small sample of 26 deaths, two-thirds of the victims had what were described as pre-existing “severe conditions” such as leukaemia, and only 16% were described as fully “healthy”.”

    So they are estimating numbers based on web hits. hahah. With all the propaganda floating about is it any surprise people ‘report’ Swine flu symptoms. Give me the power of media nd gov. propaganda and I could convince 10000 Americans they had been abducted by aliens while they slept.

  80. I can’t resist:

    This poor fella was executed apparently for the following known 8:

    – Holding opinions contrary to the Catholic Faith and speaking against it and its ministers.
    – Holding erroneous opinions about the Trinity, about Christ’s divinity and Incarnation.
    – Holding erroneous opinions about Christ.
    – Holding erroneous opinions about Transubstantiation and Mass.
    – Claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity.
    – Believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes.
    – Dealing in magics and divination.
    – Denying the Virginity of Mary.

    Ha^(google)

    Wonder if it could happen again today!

  81. emsnews

    From the BBC:

    The number of new swine flu infections in England has doubled in the past week, the government says.
    There were an estimated 100,000 new cases with the under 14s the worst hit.

    It comes as the National Flu Service was launched, offering sufferers access to drugs on the phone and via the internet without the need to see a GP…

    There have been four deaths in Scotland, but they are not comparable to the English figures as officials there have not used the same criteria.
    Meanwhile, a pregnant 26-year-old woman has been transferred from Crosshouse Hospital in Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, to Sweden for specialised treatment after suffering rare complications.
    Department of Health analysis suggested two-thirds of the deaths they had full data on were among people with severe health conditions, such as cancer.
    Chief Medical Officer Sir Liam Donaldson also said there may be “a little bit of possible good news”.
    While new cases have increased from 55,000 to an estimated 100,000, the number of people in hospital has not risen accordingly.
    Some 840 patients are in hospital – 63 of which are in critical care – compared to 652 last week.
    Sir Liam added: “There is no evidence to suggest it is becoming more virulent. Most people with no underlying conditions will get over the flu perfectly well.”

  82. emsnews

    BBC: H1N1 swine flu has killed more than 700 people around the world since the outbreak began four months ago, says the World Health Organization (WHO).
    This represents a jump of at least two-thirds from the last official death toll figure of 429, published by the WHO on July 6.
    Margaret Chan, WHO director-general, has warned that swine flu will become the biggest flu pandemic ever seen.
    However, most cases continue to produce only mild symptoms.

  83. emsnews

    Accusing me of ‘scaring’ people (????) for reporting the news that is reported in the news is silly. One can believe anything one wishes. The moon can be green cheese, for example. I don’t control what people believe.

    But being in denial is kind of useless. The majority of people—during this round of this flu—have ‘mild’ symptoms. But not all. People with other conditions and this includes pregnancy, do have complications and can die.

    Because of this, governments must be concerned. Unless one believes that governments should show no interest in the welfare of its own citizens….!

  84. If a government shows no interest in the welfare of its own citizens, then obviously this is a government in “diminishment” (even worse than depression).

    All the facts are never in, and one has to be willing to change their mind if new data becomes available.

    One must also be willing to admit a mistake when the data is da-gong practically irrefutable.

    For sure.

  85. as far as eclipses are concerned….

    I LOVE THEM.

    Heavenly bodies drive me crazy!

  86. Joe

    You want the government to show concern at every threat? I care not if the government shows interest. I care whether they are effective and I’d be a fool not to question the agenda of a clearly Fascist government, especially one with such a poor track record.

    “Accusing me of ’scaring’ people (????) for reporting the news that is reported in the news is silly.”

    What I’m saying is that there are legitimate reasons for suspecting that corporate and government interest may be manipulating people to increase profits and control. Trying to lump those who are opposed into an Alex Jones argument is not constructive. There are real issues that raise real concerns with this virus and those in position to control the story and the cure. Those you seem to be in denial of.

  87. Joe

    I will still be here in five years. Please tell me what it is you are claiming so that we can look back and quantify.

  88. Joe – I hear you, but don’t be so confident.

    How do you know you will still be here in five years?

    That is a fair question.

    I don’t even know if I will be here before the end of this sentanc……..

  89. That was a joke sort of but not really.

    Elaine knows what she is talking about.

    I would be honored to be a witness on her behalf.

  90. RobG

    please stop drinking BK

  91. RobG – have you been spying on me?

    Come on RobG you are smarter than that aren’t ya?

    I hope so.

  92. Anyhow that was ad hominem to a tee what you just said, and to think. I respect you so.

    Give me your evidence RobG – otherwise, shut your trap.

    Capice?

  93. Elaine and I agree about everything, she knows more about our mythic shaped horizon. But a lot for you have beleifs thar are cyphers. 911, vaccination, nutjobbery while wonders are all around yous. Goo work Elaine.

  94. JSmith

    “If a virus was to enter their community then they would be devastated for they do not have herd immunity.”

    Joe: try reading.

    The Amish would indeed be devastated if a virus was to enter their community. However, since most of the US population, barring a few holdouts, is vaccinated, the likelihood of a virus entering their community is greatly reduced.

    So the Amish benefit from overall herd immunity although they have no immunity themselves.

    Comprende?

  95. Joe

    JSmith – try understanding. The way Herd Immunity Theory works is that if an infection occurs that person is surrounded by vaccinated people so that next closest vulnerable person is separated by the herd of immune bodies.

    If Herd Immunity Theory were correct and the Amish community were to come into contact with a disease to which they were not vaccinated it would devastate their community.

    This has not happened. The chances of one of the too numerous to mention viruses, that they want to stick us for, never getting into any of the Amish communities is about zero.

    Comprende?

    What is likely is that for many reasons, one of which is they do not assault their young’s immune systems with vaccines, this population has a lower incidence of many of these viruses than the vaccinated population.

    I have limited the number of vaccines my children have received. They are the healthiest children you could ever possibly ask for. At the very least parents need to wait as long as possible for a child’s neurological and immune system to develop before getting any of this crap…and spread it out as much as possible.

  96. emsnews

    Up until this last 20 years, the Amish kept physically away from everyone. Not they are NOT and the NEXT epidemic will ravage them.

    Another pregnant mother is dying from this horrible disease in England and had to be transferred to Sweden for desperate care. There are less than 100 beds in hospitals in ALL OF EUROPE for the treatment she is getting and she may still die!

    This isn’t ‘hysteria’ on my part: I take this stuff seriously since I was one of the very first Americans to get the dreaded Hong Kong flu and it nearly killed me. I was an invalid for a long time, afterwards.

  97. JSmith

    “The way Herd Immunity Theory works is that if an infection occurs that person is surrounded by vaccinated people so that next closest vulnerable person is separated by the herd of immune bodies.”

    So far, so good.

    “If Herd Immunity Theory were correct and the Amish community were to come into contact with a disease to which they were not vaccinated it would devastate their community. This has not happened. The chances of one of the too numerous to mention viruses, that they want to stick us for, never getting into any of the Amish communities is about zero.”

    You’re still not getting it. Once more unto the breach… one damn premise at a time.

    1) The Amish live in the United States.

    2) The vast majority (~95%) of the US population is vaccinated against the major communicable diseases.

    3) So… the chances of the Amish coming into contact with a non-vaccinated, infected carrier is… (The answer is left as an exercise for the reader. Hint: it’s not zero, but it’s very low.)

    I swear to God, it’s like teaching Special Ed. around here sometimes…

  98. Joe

    JSmith- If you weren’t so ready to insult and avoid being wrong you might get somewhere.

    The Amish’s changes of coming into contact with a non vaccinated carrier is infinitely greater than any other no vaccinated person.

    The other evidence you are ignoring which does not support you claims is that the Amish have LOWER infection rates than the population that you claim is 95% vaccinated.

    I could never teach special ed but math is easy.

    If your misunderstanding were correct than Elaine would be wrong when she says that they WILL be ravished this time around, for they would still be protected from you flawed understanding of herd immunity.

    As for you Elaine, glad you’ve finally given me something we can measure five years from now.

    If I were a betting man I’d say the Amish will once again come out better than the rest of the population.

    I’m still not sure of the true threat level of this virus, but I am sure that this vaccine would be more dangerous for me and my family.

  99. CK

    @JS
    So that would leave approx 16 million merkins unvaccinated? And not one of them has ever been near an amish person.
    Of course since the amish have foregone the pleasures of vaccination for most of the childhood diseases, they are healthier overall.

  100. Joe

    CK are you looking over my shoulder?

  101. emsnews

    NOTHING pisses me off more than misinformation.

    Here is just one story about the Amish getting diseases we no longer get due to refusing to get vaccinations:

    http://www.mdconsult.com/das/article/body/151524589-2/jorg=journal&source=&sp=N&sid=0/N/506096/1.html?issn=

    Five cases of poliovirus infection have been confirmed in the USA, the first outbreak to occur in 26 years. Health officials from the state of Minnesota disclosed that five children from a small Amish community have contracted the virus, but the outbreak poses little danger to the general public, where vaccination rates are very high.

    The major concern is that the virus could easily spread among the residents of this particular Amish community, where many have not been vaccinated against poliovirus, says Minnesota state epidemiologist Harry Hull. There is also the possibility that the virus could be transmitted to individuals residing in other Amish communities who may have contact with this population.

  102. emsnews

    Anyone who believes the Amish are magically protected from various epidemic diseases due to NOT getting vaccinations is operating under false pretenses. It took me less than one minute to find just one story refuting the entire concept.

    I hope this is a lesson: the people putting out propaganda are often LIARS. When you catch them lying about something, treat them the same way you treat any liar: handle with care and believe them with a ton of salt.

    If someone wishes to be knowledgeable, one MUST look at all data, not just gad within a small community that talks only to itself. Look to the outer world for confirmation.

    It is logical that the Amish were ‘protected’ only because they are an island community surrounded by people who are not carrying communicable diseases. They are not protected by being ‘pure’ or ‘simple’.

    On top of this, the Amish are a very, very small gene pool. This means, anything that hits one will hit the rest very hard. The populations that are strongest against epidemics are mixed communities with a population that has intertribal sexual relations. Mongrels, that is. Just like pure bred animals are weaker in epidemics compared to mongrels.

  103. Joe

    “NOTHING pisses me off more than misinformation.

    Here is just one story about the Amish getting diseases we no longer get due to refusing to get vaccinations

    If someone wishes to be knowledgeable, one MUST look at all data, not just gad within a small community that talks only to itself. Look to the outer world for confirmation.”

    You just cherry picked an incident from 4 years ago, then claimed we no longer get these diseases. Yet after 4 years the community has not been ravaged by polio.

    I will not bother with links but a cursory search will turn up several deaths among ‘we’, most of which where contracted from the vaccine. Haha

    This is not about the Amish being magically protected. It is about arguments and corresponding evidence. Obviously one can find links supporting anything. I suggest you look at all sides as well. Surely you realize that many of the sources you have used in this discuss have been shown to be LIARS as much as anyone.

  104. Oh forget it I already KNOW what time it is….

    The inflection point has already occurred.

    So what I meant to ask is what is the STUPID argument about?

  105. sorry I reckon I lied I again….whoop-die-do….

    “what is THIS STUPID argument about?

    I sure hope it is not about choice because if it is then a direct conflict of interest has occurred and such things have dire consequences…..

    just saying…

    Good night.

  106. JT

    Still vaccinations?
    I found that most of the young Amish do vaccinate their children.

    “The idea that the Amish do not vaccinate their children is untrue,” says Dr. Kevin Strauss, MD, a pediatrician at the CSC. “We run a weekly vaccination clinic and it’s very busy.” He says Amish vaccinations rates are lower than the general population’s, but younger Amish are more likely to be vaccinated than older generations.”

    http://combatingautismfromwithin.blogspot.com/2008/01/guess-what-amish-vaccinate.html

    Polio is serious 1/100 times. Without vaccinations this would mean 20-30 000 deformed children per year in the US alone.

    “Poliomyelitis is highly contagious and spreads easily by human-to-human contact. In endemic areas, wild polioviruses can infect virtually the entire human population.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis

    For heavens sake people….

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