Both of my children are in the high risk category in this H1N1 swine flu epidemic and both finally were told by their doctors, they will be getting their much-needed flu shots this week. I am very relieved to learn this. As the disease spreads havoc and kills children and pregnant women, it is very much in the news. And the news that Goldman Sachs got as many doses as NYC hospitals shows us that the ‘elites’ are NOT using vaccinations to kill us. Far, far from it.
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Indeed, the news about Goldman Sachs confirms my own analysis that the goofy conspiracy websites that all were screaming that the H1N1 flu was fake, or was deliberately launched by the rich and powerful to kill us and or that the vaccinations are an insidious plot to kill us, THIS IS ALL RIDICULOUS.
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Now, in the reality-based world, when one makes accusations or explains things, one has to see if this is logical or plays out in the news. The news about Goldman Sachs proves that my contentions were 100% correct and the many people who attacked me for thinking correctly are, of course, totally wrong. I even said, long ago, that the elites would never, ever want to deliberately spread a disease that spreads via touching or breathing. This is simple logic!
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This is the difference between the anthrax attacks that came out of our own military/government versus this disease. And the anthrax attacks scared our government, even Bush, because the military underestimated how dangerous this stupid anthrax was and its ability to contaminate all sorts of things far and wide hopefully taught them a lesson. Playing with germs to win wars does not work. Period.
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The only entity that can successfully use germ warfare is the Empress of the Viral Empire. She, of course, uses her germ troops to take over whole biological systems. This is her goal: to multiply and live forever.
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Of course, a lot of people have many things to push and antivaccinationists are totally heedless about reality. They hate vaccinations and anything proving them dead wrong about anything doesn’t make a dent in these beliefs. But the intersection between antivaccinationism and conspiracy theorists is very strong. I would suggest, it is a manifestation of irrationality.
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I keep insisting on talking about this disease because this place is called ‘Culture of Life News’ and this is very much a very big news story this year. It has developments and a cycle of destruction that is important to track. So I will discuss this even if paranoid people hate me for busting all those bizarre stories peddled by conspiracy sites. First, the official chart of H1N1 deaths from the CDC:
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CDC 2009 H1N1 Flu | 2009 H1N1 U.S. Situation Update
Tow obvious things: this epidemic had a major spike last spring, it killed at a higher rate than normal all summer long and the present spike is very big and much bigger than the already bigger than usual spike in 2007! The bottom graph shows how this disease is hammering children. Note the end box that shows child deaths from the regular flu: one.
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Antivaccinationists have done themselves ill by constantly making fun of dying children or pretending they are not dying or blaming these deaths on the children claiming it is normal for children with asthma to die of the flu. This revealed the true nature of some of these conspiracy/antivaccinationists: they hate humans. They despise their fellow humans and really don’t care if bad things happen. Being phobic about shots, they want the rest of us to suffer and die so they, themselves, can avoid getting vaccinations!
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The antivaccinationists saved no lives this year and probably caused a number of deaths but we can’t blame them entirely since there has been a severe shortage of vaccinations due to technical problems. But as I predicted, all the people who have had access to these shots, many have now taken panic and are rushing to get them.
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H1N1 is now world’s dominant flu virus, World Health Organization says – CNN.com
The H1N1 virus has now become the dominant influenza virus around the globe, with high levels and an increase of activity in many regions, the World Health Organization said Thursday. In a weekly update, the WHO’s point person on the H1N1 virus, Dr. Keiji Fukuda, also warned the public not to treat the virus like just another flu….
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…Seven months into the pandemic, the virus commonly known as swine flu remains at high levels and continues to increase in North America, Fukuda said. Mexico, for example, has seen more cases from September to November than they saw in the preceding months from April, when the virus emerged, he said….
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…Health officials this week reported an outbreak of cases in Ukraine, which now has more than 250,000 cases of influenza-like illness, with 235 patients requiring intensive care, the WHO said. Activity is picking up in East Asia, Fukuda said. Mongolia reported “a number” of cases over the past week, he said.
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This is obviously a real pandemic. A number of scientists predicted this would happen. As I reported here in the past, last spring, the scientists I quoted (not the small minority who had contrary stories which the antivaccinationists peddled so hard) were 100% correct about how this epidemic would progress. Since they, the MAINSTREAM scientists at the CDC and WHO, etc, were 100% correct, this means we can TRUST THEM. While NOT TRUSTING the alternative guys who have a very sorry track record of being nearly always wrong.
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This is how science works: if you make predictions and things happen exactly as you predict based on studies and analysis, then this is correct. End of story. You can’t make predictions based on bad science, be wrong, and still demand people take you seriously. Since I chose the side in this debate that so far, has been correct, this means that we won this round in the ideological battle over scientific medical matters. Now for some interesting swine flu news and what this means:
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MuskogeePhoenix.com, Muskogee, OK – Boy’s death blamed on swine flu
The three deaths bring the total number of H1N1-related deaths to 20 since the department began surveillance on Sept. 1. Another death occurred in June.
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Twelve of the deaths had documented history of underlying medical conditions that may have increased their risk for the illness, including asthma, diabetes, obesity and compromised immune systems.
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This means that 8 of the deaths were healthy people with no underlying conditions. These were not elderly people at death’s door. These are young people. Some people here at my site were trying to convince me that no healthy people die from this disease. When I dug up the story of the hockey player who was strong, they yelled that he MIGHT have had an underlying condition. Well, this is now pretty obvious that this disease kills healthy young people.
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Health officials say seven of the victims were children under 19, and three of them had underlying medical conditions. One case involved an infant less than 6 months old.
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Under 19, it is even more obvious this disease kills healthy children. Less than half in Oklahoma had ‘underlying conditions.’
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. The Web site also reported 804 cases of influenza-related hospitalizations from Sept. 1 to Oct. 31. Of those, 457, or 57 percent, being under age 19. African American children had the highest number of hospitalizations at 77, followed by Native Americans with 46 and white children, with 37.
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So, more than half of the hospitalizations were pediatric. The fact that this disease is hitting natives and US minorities very hard may be due to its genetic design. That is, it evolved in probably Asia where pig and duck cultivation is very high compared to other cultures which are more into cattle and sheep, for example. The long evolution of these HN viruses is still being unravelled by scientists.
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Swine flu strikes natives in remote Amazon – Nova Scotia News – TheChronicleHerald.ca
Swine flu has appeared among Venezuela’s Yanomami Indians, one of the largest isolated indigenous groups in the Amazon, and a doctor said Wednesday that the virus is suspected in seven deaths, including six infants.
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The deaths happened in forest villages near Venezuela’s border with Brazil over the past 2 1/2 weeks, said Raidan Bernade, a Venezuelan doctor on a team working to contain the outbreak and treat the ill.
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Isolated populations that are very inbred are very vulnerable to viral plagues that evolve elsewhere. Very early on, this has been a feature of this particular disease. Due to a lack of vaccinations, this disease might spread great devastation in these small populations. Throughout the last 100 years, the attempts at annihilating tribes has dropped off (even we can’t do this in Afghanistan!) due to this being viewed as immoral after the Nazi nastiness.
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Instead of annihilating tribes, once the UN was launched, mass vaccinations of natives all over the planet was also launched via the WHO. This has been very successful and the population levels in the Third World, the previously colonized sectors, has soared thanks to vaccinations. Far from wanting to kill all natives (again, we are not even killing all the Afghanis despite emotional calls to nuke them after 9/11) most Bilderberg participants want to preserve native groups.
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Indeed, in the 19th century in the US, highly educated elites wanted to preserve the native Indian tribes, not annihilate them. But people who wanted to economically exploit the natural resources of North America wanted to eliminate them. This caused dissension within top families between members who wanted to get richer this way and sensitive members who wanted to protect everyone. This internal dispute continues to this day. There really is a desire to preserve which is in contrast to the desire to kill and exploit.
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This is also why tarring everyone in the ‘elites’ with the same brush is poor analysis. There is ongoing tension concerning ‘what is a native?’ and ’should we kill or preserve them?’ All empires throughout history have these very same debates, by the way.
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One of Kern’s top planners succumbs to swine flu – Bakersfield.com
Darrel Hildebrand, one of Kern County’s most highly respected planning officials, died early Thursday morning of complications from H1N1 swine flu. He was just 56.
.Hildebrand, a Kern County native and the longtime assistant director of Kern Council of Governments, started experiencing flu symptoms about three weeks ago, friends said. When his lung capacity fell dramatically, he drove himself to the hospital where he spent 18 days in intensive care.
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I include this news story because my husband is the same exact age. So this scares me. He is last in line for these vaccination shots. So I have to take this news into consideration. Note that the hospital tried, for 18 days, to keep him alive. The main reason we are not seeing 1918 levels of deaths is probably due to a number of factors including much, much better modern healthcare systems.
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Yes, modern medicine actually works! This isn’t unbelievable news. It is obvious news. Now, the other day I ran the Canadian story about the poor hockey playing kid who suddenly died right in front of his father as his father called for an ambulance. Seems there are some interesting hockey news in this business:
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While pregnant women and children have been standing in long lines to get their H1N1 flu shots, NBC reports that firms on Wall Street got just as many doses for their employees as some New York Hospitals.
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Now, a hockey team in Calgary, Canada is taking some heat. People have been buzzing over the N-H-L hockey team, the Calgary Flames, being vaulted to the front of the H1N1 vaccination lines.
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Now, this outraged people who think these guys jumped the line. And they did jump the line. But then, it appears that hockey players seem to have some vulnerabilities here:
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Boston Bruins Blog – Losing Krejci comes at terrible time – ESPN Boston
Losing center David Krejci to H1N1 was the last thing the Bruins needed in the aftermath of back-to-back shutout losses.
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These guys are very fit athletes. But they skate indoors. It has turned out that skating indoors many hours like figure skaters or hockey players, has some downsides. One of which is, breathing the air in arenas can cause lung problems. Since this epidemic attacks the lungs, they are vulnerable and should be in the same category as asthmatics. Now, on to the Ukraine:
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Ukraine Swine-Flu Panic: H1N1 Crisis or Political Ploy? – TIME
Tymoshenko has been guilty of one thing: sending mixed messages. The closing of schools and banning of public gatherings are among the harshest measures in Europe against the H1N1 virus. Yet Tymoshenko has not forcefully advocated for people to get vaccinated against the virus. “I am not vaccinated,” she said in a television address this week. “I am protecting myself like everybody, with lemon, onion, garlic, everything that is needed. I think the best way is simply to protect your health through well-known means.” Yushchenko, meanwhile, has urged people to get vaccinated immediately.
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Everyday Ukrainians are used to the political bickering that has beset their country since the Orange Revolution five years ago. Many people are looking after themselves because they don’t trust the government to do anything for them. The folk remedies advocated by Tymoshenko are growing in popularity, as are slightly stronger tonics. “A vodka a day keeps swine flu away,” one elderly woman told masked passersby on the street.
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Since all the stories about conspiracies peddled by the conspiracy side of the internet have collapsed in the face of logic and reality, these antivaccinationist hysterics have all trooped away from previous stories they cooked up and are now latching onto various strange stories broiling out of the Ukraine. This country has been torn asunder ever since the leadership decided to conspire (YES there are real conspiracies!) with the neocons in the US to pull a sneak attack on Russian troops during the opening of the Chinese Olympics. (CORRECTION: It was Georgia versus Russia. I mixed this up. Ukraine is the one fighting Russia over the gas pipe lines business)
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This caused Putin to have to suddenly leave and he gestured to a grinning Bush that he was very angry and would act accordingly, later (do nasty things that irritate us). So he flew to the border war area and under his guidance, the Ukrainian attackers where thoroughly defeated. Ever since then, with a very angry Russian bear glaring at them, the political arena in this sector has been unstable.
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By the way, there is a very poor healthcare system in the Ukraine and this probably explains why the disease is spreading easily there. The statistics are not all that different from other second-class countries with similar poor services. Also, the clinging to folk medicine which does make one feel better and does help somewhat, it typical of second tier and third tier countries. Modern medicine requires a stable government and a good infrastructure to operate properly. And we see what happens when a government doesn’t care if its own people die off, that is, let us go to Japan:
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Lawmakers of the ruling Democratic Party of Japan have drafted a bill on hepatitis that says the government was responsible for the spread of hepatitis, and establishing systems of research and treatment for the disease is its duty. Referring to hepatitis as the ‘‘most widely transmitted disease in the country,’’ the draft bill says the government has admitted it was responsible for causing the spread of hepatitis C through the use of tainted blood products.
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It also noted courts’ finalized decisions which said that the government was responsible for the spread of hepatitis B, which was caused by using the same needles for giving vaccinations to many people. The DPJ will try to pass the bill with a unanimous vote, the party’s lawmakers said.
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The LDP didn’t care if the child birthrate collapsed. They dithered while the healthcare system rotted away. Japan has one of the highest rates of elderly survival in the world. But the system supporting the entire population is rotting away due to lack of interest. The Japanese elites are not plotting to kill all the Japanese people.
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This is happening accidentally. The problem is, the LDP was in power for much too long and over time, tended to take care of mostly themselves. That is, the elites would see only each other, talk to each other, and marry each other. So they were cut off from fellow Japanese. And over time, disinterest in the lives of fellow Japanese led to this state where the world’s #2 economy during the last 20 years, ended up reusing needles!
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No sane first world nation does that! Only the very poorest nations do this! This is not an indication that the Japanese elites are plotting secretly to spread diseases. It does indicate that they didn’t give a rat’s ass if things were done cheaply or improperly. They ignored problems or made these worse due to desiring to hog all national resources for themselves instead of practicing sane socialism.
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We see this attitude in the US. In the Democratic party, we see elites who want healthcare reforms. But are not all that motivated to make it really work due to them all being very well covered with the best healthcare insurance on earth provided by us taxpayers. While the Republicans actively refuse to extend healthcare to tens of millions of fellow Americans. Our birth and death statistics are some of the worst in the first world nations.
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A horrifying number of children and babies die due to lack of sufficient healthcare and large numbers of families go bankrupt due to the high cost of getting medical care. So far, I see our elites imitating Japan, not Europe in this matter. That is, there are way too many political leaders who really don’t care if we die from neglect. Letting people die isn’t a conspiracy, it is a lifestyle.
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I get flack from people who think it is outrageous to tax the entire population in order to keep us alive with a good national healthcare system! Well, this attitude is dangerous. Epidemics flourish in populations who can’t get healthcare. For this reason alone, we should be anxious to have a very strong public health system. And this is being debated in Congress right now.
114 Comments
November 6, 2009 at 2:55 pm
I would hope that you might get some apologies from the antivaccination crew here, but I doubt it. They will just fade away into the shadows and wait for the next conspiracy in hopes that it might actually pan out for them.
The fact that they do not apologize shows that they are not really interested in learning. They are only interested in being declared “right”. They are fanatics.
Meanwhile, the bankers and financiers continue to loot and ransack the country in plain view — and no one stops them.
Kunstler thinks an army captain might rise up soon and take command. I view this as wishful thinking. We have no history of coup de tait’s against the plutocrats who run our country.
Of course, there can always be a first time.
November 6, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I do believe it was Georgia in the caucasus mountains that attacked the Russians during the olympics not the Ukraine. US troops are still stationed in that Georgia, still training the Georgians to tickle the bear as it were.
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ELAINE: You are right, CK. My mistake. (see how easy it is to admit to things?)
November 6, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Forget the Swine Flu – check in on this….
There is suspicion that this may actually be a different pathogen, not H1N1, with some observers suggesting it may be a return of the pheumonic plague, a bacterial infection that can be 100% deadly if not treated quickly. Kavkaz.com is reporting Ukraine: Influenza or Pneumonic Plague? The situation is getting worse and worse:
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/ukraine-possible-bio-weapon-speculation-of-pneumonic-plague-martial-law-declared_11052009
November 6, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Flu Shot Victim Desiree Jennings CURED of “untreatable” neurological disorder
The Robert Scott Bell Show was first to break the story of the treating doctor and resulting success in reversing a supposedly incurable neurological adverse event reaction. This dramatic healing could serve to weaken the grip of the authoritarian naysayers within the medical industrial complex when it comes to vaccine injuries and the recovery of patients so injured.
Robert interviews treating physician Dr. Rashid Buttar about Desiree Jennings’ medical condition and treatment, including my concern that certain pharmaceutical interest groups will attack them because of the possibility that this dramatic healing might weaken those in favor of mandatory vaccinations.
Will Desiree Jennings be the shot heard round the world?
Interview –
http://askrsb.podbean.com/2009/11/04/exclusive-flu-shot-victim-desiree-jennings-cured-of-untreatable-neurological-disorder/
Quick video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxp7lh6HuTo&feature=player_embedded
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Hopefully the vaccination cheerleaders will watch this remarkable story about a Redskins cheerleader. Incredibly, she was “cured” by natural remedies – to eliminate the toxins injected in her body through an unsafe vaccination.
The issue is and has always been that vaccinations have not always been safe. We’ve spent decades injecting people without sufficient safety testing.
For example, vaccinations have been scientifically linked to the explosive rise in autism and alzheimers.
In light of all the evidence, only a moron would blindly support vaccinations without demanding more testing.
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ELAINE; HAHAHA. So the backwards running cheerleader got tired of this scam? Yea gads. Her fake disorder didn’t last long. Are you still scared silly about vaccinations?
November 6, 2009 at 5:56 pm
@Devaul,
“Kunstler thinks an army captain might rise up soon and take command. I view this as wishful thinking. We have no history of coup de tait’s against the plutocrats who run our country.”
Most people can deal with plutocrats. But who will rid us of kleptocrats selling us out through de-industrialization.
Kunstler is just jock sniffing and perhaps lamely telegraphing that he believes the back door is being left open. But he’s way beyond wishful thinking when he supposes that in todays lock-step promotion scheme that anyone below the rank of Lt.Col. is even a player. Long gone are the days when successful Company grade officers would be placed in charge of Regiment strength units or larger by dint of their achievements and charisma. There are no modern American equivalent of “Rommel detachments” like in WWI and before.
November 6, 2009 at 6:27 pm
A common thread with many hypochondriacs is that no real medicines can cure them but quacks have greatest success. The ’symptoms’ of the backward running cheerleader made zero medical sense. I detected this right away, having grown up with people who have this problem (being plagued by pretend symptoms).
Anyone doing any goofy thing would ‘cure’ this female because her cure happened whenever she wanted to be ‘cured’. Ah, the miracles of make believe medicine!
There are people who pretend to be crippled, for example. Suddenly, after a preacher prays over them, they throw aside their crutches and walk like normal.
Of course, if you are scamming workman’s comp, many people claiming to have problems turn out to be liars. Example: there was this guy who irritated me. He was also suing NYC for supposed back problems caused by a subway accident.
So I photographed him carrying a huge 9 foot tall oak door, running, not walking, down the street (he was stealing it!). He was arrested and also charged with fraud.
He used to go around Park Slope, aping being weak and helpless. Then, when he thought no one was watching, he was cured.
This cheerleader case should be a warning to all antivaccinationists: you are being scammed by con artists.
November 6, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Alzheimer’s disease is more common now because many, many more people live to be over 75 years of age, Kirby. And this is happening because of vaccinations protecting us from deadly or debilitating diseases.
November 6, 2009 at 7:10 pm
“POLISH PRIME MINISTER BACKS HEALTH MINISTER IN REJECTING SWINE FLU JAB”
“More reports of pneumonic plague following aerial spraying in the Ukraine”
“President of Ukraine’s neighbour, Belarus, says “swine flu” pandemic artificially created”
http://www.theflucase.com/
November 6, 2009 at 7:21 pm
@DrKrbyLuv, “Incredibly, she was “cured” by natural remedies”
Colloidal silver.
November 6, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Elaine, your local radio station in Albany 590AM announced today that the New York Department of Health was offering a free big mac with every vaccination.
Whatta deal! Big Pharma attacks on two fronts! I think Ronald McDonald is the perfect pitchman…silly/creepy and gender neutral. I can see his stupid grin and him holding a needle dripping with the death giving rivulets. Maybe McD’s is going into the pharmaceutical industry. They have mastered death disguised as food and, as we know, medical is a growth industry!
onward and upward!
November 6, 2009 at 7:28 pm
the stupid cheerleader is a distraction designed to discredit legitimate concerns…one of the oldest tactics in the book.
Sorry you missed that one.
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ELAINE: Um, I didn’t bring up that stupid cheerleader story, the antivanccination hysterics brought it up. I debunked it and as I expected, she cured herself the day she tired of pulling this scam.
November 6, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Elaine, your chart is misleading. The vertical axis is the percentage of Influenza like illnesses. It says NOTHING about them being H1N1. Misleading at best.
Isn’t it the beginning of the normal flu season anyway? Don’t you imagine ANYONE who gets a common cold or regular flu is going to freak and head to the ER for some good ol fashioned USA grade MEDICINE?? Seriously. Shoddy work for a self labeled analyst.
Finally, who or what group of anti-vaccine people expressed any satisfaction or happiness that children were getting sick or dying? Specifically, someone on here said that? Or did you fabricate this in another lame attempt to paint those who believe vaccines are ineffective with the same brush?
Put up or shut up.
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ELAINE: The CDC assumes you have the intelligence to read the information at the link I gave you. The appearance of the H1N1 flu is obvious, it is where there is a sudden spike in late spring.
November 6, 2009 at 7:47 pm
One other point. Who at GS did you confirm this information with. You may have noticed that they have been the whipping boys lately…probably well deserved. However, it seems like a very easy smear against a bunch of lowlifes going down for the count anyway.
Nothing like a little venom to anger up the population. If they in fact did receive this vaccine, great from my perspective. But for those who believe in vaccines, the USG should be taken to task and answers demanded since they control the flood of vaccines. I think a truck of vaccine was jacked in MKE yesterday as well.
Kind of like the cabbage patch doll craze…fake demand. And to those wavering, well, if it’s good enough for the rich GS folks, it’s good enough for me. Stupid and transparent.
The GS “news” proves absolutely nothing
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ELAINE: HAHAHA. If your conspiracy stories collapse into lunacy, you still cling to the broken wreckage, hoping no one will notice the mess.
Fake demand for vaccinations? Only to antivaccinationists.
November 6, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I think the relations between Ukraine and Russia must be studied because it has enormous implications.
At the basis, Ukraine considers itself the genesis of the Rus Empire. And that Russia was the interloper. This fight for the control of the cultural history has caused problems for centuries. The USSR sat back and watched Ukraine starve once to make a point. They will now sit back and watch them freeze to death in the winter.
This is a hornets nest we don’t need to be involved in. People in the state department must know about this, and think that they can control it. But cultural wars can’t be controlled.
November 6, 2009 at 10:27 pm
LOL devaul your a classic talking about conspiracies
considering all those black jewish women that are trying to screw you all the time!!!
and then there was the BIG ukraine story complete with ‘So he flew to the border war area and under his guidance, the Ukrainian attackers where thoroughly defeated. ”
damn this is all so terribly sad…..its almost not even worth making fun of anymore.
is there a link between vacc shots and Alzheimers at all??????
November 6, 2009 at 11:00 pm
Speaking of military coup, one of my favorite economists offers plausible (excellent) rationale for same.
“When the Untied States as a nation defaults on its debt, only then will the GSax cancer be killed off. To kill the cancer, one must kill the body. What a tragedy! The path might be constructed for a USMilitary coup of the presidency and White House. It might actually be recommended by GSax. It might be viewed as a solution to avert foreign creditor arrival and imposition of a Tribunal. It might be viewed as a solution to maintain US control even if by force of martial law and supply rationing.”
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2009/1106.html
November 6, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Do you know why WHO declared a pandemic this year?
They changed the definition…
Did you know that under the current definition we will have a pandemic every year
Our founding fathers designed a republic to protect the rights of the individual against the government and an ignorant majority.
Most people here are not part of that ignorant majority…but there are many never the less.
I have no problem with the ignorant majority lining up for a dose of death if that’s what they insist on but please leave the rest of us alone and stop with the emergency hype.
After all, you’ll need us to take care of survivors and to bury the ones who don’t.
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ELAINE; That is pure BS.
November 7, 2009 at 12:44 am
Dear Author?? What has nature come to? Russia and Ukraine went to war last year.
Bwahahaha roflmao.. This is not a mistake, it is just abject ignorance of history – never in a thousand years! A literate person would simply not make that statement, it is too absurd. Yet you pronounce on politics endlessly.
‘So I photographed him carrying a huge 9 foot tall oak door, running, not walking, down the street (he was stealing it!). He was arrested and also charged with fraud.’
Maybe if he was Big Foot. The object that you are describing would weigh 500 pounds. A nine foot door would be two and a quarter inches thick and forty two inches in width, otherwise, it would be an architectural oddity. Ponder before you pronounce, since some people actually read critically.
November 7, 2009 at 1:43 am
@Elaine, the fact that GS got as many H1N1 flu shot vaccinations as the NY health system leads me to believe that my idea that the elites may be trying to kill us by NOT making the vaccine as widely available as it should is true. I.e., that they are NOT trying to kill us with the vaccine, but by NOT MAKING ENOUGH. In the link is a VOA report on the shortages and how people are trying to work their way around it.
http://www.voanews.com/english/AmericanLife/2009-11-04-voa23.cfm
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ELAINE; No, the elites are not trying to kill us with a vicious easily communicable disease, nor vaccinations, either. The GS guys were filled with fear, used political pull to get to the head of the line when vaccinations were in short supply and supposedly limited to pregnant women, young children and such. Sort of like the Titanic where the first class men went ahead of their class women and children.
November 7, 2009 at 2:00 am
blues wrote:
“At the moment, I am expecting to probably get a 2009/H1N1 shot, if the doctor recommends it. It could have serious adverse effects. It very possibly will not very effective, and it might be totally ineffective.”
____________________________
I’m sure you will be diligent in making your decision. It’s a damed shame that we can’t trust our government to be concerned with the safety and welfare of the people.
One thing you might want to investigate is that it may be that this virus (H1N1) is not as bad as billed. If you catch it, so far the symptoms are not any worse than other seasonal bugs.
And if you catch it and recover, your immunity system may be better prepared for the next strain.
The illness we are reading about in the Ukraine is something we should be concerned with as it looks to be much more serious. And the H1N1 vaccine will not help.
If you get the H1N1 vaccine you may be reducing your bodies ability to fight off this new strain.
Good luck, you’re damed smart and you will no doubt figure out what’s best.
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ELAINE; That is pure BS
November 7, 2009 at 3:06 am
Indeed, the news about Goldman Sachs confirms my own analysis that the goofy conspiracy websites that all were screaming that the H1N1 flu was fake
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its bad
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic
Pandemics and notable epidemics through history
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-181259944046452879&q=iluminati&total=111&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4
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black jack taco
November 7, 2009 at 3:16 am
Reasoned another: “Saddam, I can’t judge if he did what he’s being accused of, but if Bush thinks he did it, then he did it.”
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/11/guest-post-investor-psychology-fear-turns-people-into-sheep.html
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saddam was an animal…. theres fools then theres playboys…. saddam is dead and thats the future…. the US called him on a pair of twos
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plotted against the life of a standing US president and sabotaged US foreign policy for most of a decade or two
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or three
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so you wont find me crying for noone but the iraqis and the position of their future in a complex modern world
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Abbas aint running for a infante term of PLO disestablishmentarianism… guess that sux for the road map
November 7, 2009 at 3:30 am
The defendants behaved like “common criminals” who took a “page from drug-dealer handbooks,” Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said yesterday at a press conference. The probe is focused on hedge funds and their sources of information, he said, adding that more arrests may be coming.
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1595-To-The-SEC-Prove-It.html.
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common criminal…. how often can a common criminal reap 50,000->850,000 on a single crime
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more like common sociopath and handmaiden of a secret society
November 7, 2009 at 7:30 am
THE STRANGE CASE OF JOSEPH MOSHE
November 7, 2009 at 7:32 am
China Seals Off a Town of 10,000 for Pneumonic Plague
Topic started on 5-11-2009 @ 10:26 PM by 12GaugePermissionSlip
It appears that Chinese people in the town of Ziketan were suffering from the same thing last August as some Ukrainians are now.
China seals off pneumonic plague town – Tania Branigan in Beijing and agencies
A second man has died of pneumonic plague and 10 people are infected in a north-western Chinese town that authorities have sealed off to avoid the spread of the infectious lung disease.
Officials have placed Ziketan and the surrounding part of Qinghai province in quarantine. The local health bureau has urged anyone with a cough or a fever who has visited the town of 10,000 since mid-July to seek treatment.
The lung disease is caused by the same bacterium as bubonic plague. The World Health Organisation (WHO) says it is the most virulent and least common form of plague, capable of killing sufferers within 24 hours of infection. It spreads through the air and can be passed from person to person by coughing.
Read the rest here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk...
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ELAINE: This is totally different from the H1N1. It is happening in a part of the planet where various bubonic/pneumonic plagues have risen over the last 1,000+ years. It is EXTREMELY dangerous and note several things: the government is using draconian quarantine measures to contain it. And the government is talking about it in the news.
Like tuberculosis, if there is no vaccination or medication that prevents this disease, there is only quarantine. And this is why we have vaccinations in the first place.
November 7, 2009 at 12:21 pm
“I was hoping people here would turn up more info on the very strange Ukraine incident.”
You mean the case where laboratory made a very human error but conspiracy theory builders are looking very hard to turn it to another plot to kill humankind?
Lack of information = Not much to tell, really. Accidents do still happen, everything is not a conspiracy to kill us all.
But once again, let us assume that this was done on purpose. So the samples were sent to other laboratories, which found out about the accident in ROUTINE testing. So pretty badly planned conspiracy, to get caught instantly in normal procedures that should have been expected to happen anyway.
Once again, it is obvious: this was just an accident.
November 7, 2009 at 12:26 pm
And uh, we should be surprised about H1N1 breakout in Ukraine, at the time when it was supposed to happen in these parts of the world anyway?
They do not have infrastructure and wealth to test as many people, and provide best possible care for all who need it. So that country will be one of those where death toll will probably be higher than in wealthier countries. No need for any conspiracy, but I don’t think it will stop those who want to make them up.
November 7, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Elaine: Mr. Moshe developed the bio germ in his lab? The spin on this is going to be interesting. If he didnt do anything wrong,
why send him back to the home-land? Mr.
S. no more Pathophysiology on hyperuricemia, your getting boring.
November 7, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Don, Mr. Mosche didn’t develop this disease in his lab. It was developed in the far more sophisticated labs run by the Empress of the Viral Empire. This lab is run in all living things. We are labs, in other words.
Using the genetic splicing tools provided by Mother Nature, this Empire insidiously and continuously experiments. And when an experiment works, these diseases are spread by the victims.
Conspiracy seekers have no trouble finding ‘interesting’ stories. If everything is a nifty conspiracy, all things can be made into this very easily.
And it is interesting to the victims of constant conspiracy theorizing because it makes them feel powerful. They imagine they are ‘in the know’ and are credible and unlike the ’sheeple’ can divine all sorts of fun stuff that is invisible to people who don’t do this all the time.
The danger of too much conspiracy thinking is obvious: it can lead to purges, violent ethnic reactions, insanity (Mr. Moshe is obviously unhinged) etc.
November 7, 2009 at 1:33 pm
If he didnt do anything wrong, our govt went out of there way to send him to his room? Google: “Leading Microbiologists dying off faster than drosophila.”
or “Swine Flu Mexicans dying, Americans,
why not, Genotypes”? It fits right with
Mr. Moshe, you know the organizations that begin with M and C have a way of starting things that we never read about. I admire you but…………………………………..
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ELAINE; Long before the invention of vaccinations, ‘native’ populations invaded by aliens have suffered from new diseases. This is the nature of how disease works. Many diseases come out of the vast populations in China and SE Asia like India and these tend to move outwards to non-Asian populations and when they do hit, they hit hard. Like the Black Plague that was a huge killer in Europe but came from Mongolia.
November 7, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Another vaccine article:
http://www.nycskeptics.org/blog/?p=1078
“What has led to this new epidemic of fear? The answer is complex, involving a convergence of multiple factors: a lack of understanding of how science works, mistrust in medicine in general and in expert advice even more generally, mistrust in government oversight and the pharmaceutical industry, and a growing counter-culture trend, particularly in more highly educated socio-economic populations. The most common vaccine concerns can be summarized as follows:
1. Vaccines have been linked to autism – While this is true, vaccines have been linked to autism, they don’t actually have anything to do with autism. I will not tackle this myth here, but suffice it to say, not a single shred of valid scientific evidence has ever been put forth to support a causal link between vaccines and autism. However, volume upon volume of excellent, peer-reviewed data has unequivocally shown no such a linkage [for a complete set of references, see the references section of this post from the Science-Based Medicine blog].
2. Vaccine ingredients, like thimerosal, aluminum, squalene, and others can lead to immunological and neurological consequences in infants – Again, no valid data exists to support such a belief, and the existing science points us in the opposite direction.
3. Too many vaccines can overwhelm an infant’s immune system, leading to a host of disease conditions – This is absurd on its face to anyone familiar with basic immunological principles. All of the childhood vaccines combined, are but a mere drop in the bucket compared to the immunological challenges an infant faces every day. Not only can an infant’s immune system easily handle the combinations recommended in the routine schedule, but the number of immunologic stressors, if you will, contained in the current schedule (that enormous, and growing list the anti-vaccine community complains so much about) has actually been decreasing due to improved vaccine technologies [2].”
November 7, 2009 at 4:02 pm
@blues, Good Luck.
International Swine Flu Update
Sweden
Nurses Got Sick From the Swine Flu Vaccine
UPDATE: 190 Adverse Reactions, 1 Suspected Death
October 21st, 2009 by Johan Niklasson Source
On October 20th, 30 people had been reporting to the authorities in Sweden that they experienced such severe side effects from the swine flu vaccine that they felt the need to contact a hospital. A day later the number was 140. The Swedish newspaper Expressen is the only one in Sweden reporting on these cases and as usual this is most likely only the tip of a rather large iceberg. According to Dagens Nyheter (Sweden’s largest conservative newspaper) the number of reported side effects is over 190. One person died after the injection but “no direct relation with the injection has been established”. The biggest medical scandal in the history of Sweden has just started.
Even so, Annika Linde, director of The Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease Control (SMI) manages to spin this into something positive by stating “The vaccine has more side effects than the normal flu vaccine. It is a sign that proves that it gives an effective protection.”
Thousands of Swedes have been vaccinated so far and the reports of side effects are “flooding in” to The Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease Control (SMI). Annika Linde says “It is obviously so that the vaccine against the swine flu results in more side effects than the normal flu vaccines. That is because the swine flu vaccine contains adjuvants, shark liver oil, which triggers the immune defense to respond. That also results in that the protection against the virus becomes better.”
Several severe cases of allergic reactions are reported to the unit for medicinal safety. “So far the reported side effects are not unexpected”, says Gunilla Sjölin Forsberg. This unit has now asked some of the many units that vaccinate to report side effects to better get a grip on the situation. This statement alone is shocking since according to normal practice, all side effects should automatically be reported – right?
A nurse who took the shot on Wednesday last week is still feeling sick. She got high fever and shivers from the swine flu shot. “I was shaking in my whole body. It was so severe that I could not even hold a glass of water in my hand” Lotta Lindström says. “I am now thinking about what it is I have been injected with? I really was affected. It feels really unpleasant.”
Maria Strindlund (age 27) is not so sure she made the right choice to take the shot. She also got a severe fever and shivering reaction. “Since I work as a nurse, I decided it was the best thing to do” she says. At first she felt nothing from the vaccination, but a few hours later the side effects kicked in. “I got a extreme pain in my arm. I could no longer lift it. Then came the fever and the shivering. I was lying in bed shivering and was feeling very cold and stood in a hot shower to get warm.” She says many colleagues who also took the vaccine have had similar reactions. She has been taking many vaccines in the past without any reactions whatsoever.
Rebecka Andersson (age 32) was the first person to get the shot in Sweden. She became feverish and felt sick to her stomach from the shot. “I lost all energy” she says. “I am normally never sick so I understood it must be the vaccine.” Her class mate was vaccinated at the same time and she states that five out of nineteen also got sick from the swine flu vaccine.
Lotta Lindström (age 49), a nurse, states that she got the shot a week ago and still is not well. “It feels very worrying” she says. “I did not sleep anything the night after the shot since the pain in my arm was so severe.” The day after, at work, the fever came. She later had headaches. She still today, a week after the shot feels sick.
Another nurse, Jenney (age 26), could hardly walk five meters after she got sick from the swine flu vaccination. She was completely healthy when she got the shot but the day after she had 39 degrees centigrade fever (102.2 F). “I could hardly walk the five meters I had to the bathroom” she says. The fever lasted for three days. Several of her colleagues at work had similar experiences. “I know of at least ten that got fever, we are about 80 people at my workplace.”
November 7, 2009 at 6:52 pm
When EMS talks economics, she occasionally notes how the banks and investment houses managed to capture and neuter the agencies supposed to regulate them in the public interest ( SEC, D of Treasury, Mint, CFTC et.al.)
It came as no surprise during the various salmonella and e.coli infestations of processed foods that the FDA and the D of Agriculture have been captured and are run by the people they regulate.
But suggest that the CDC, NIMH, NIH and other health controlling govt regulators have been captured and are run for the benefit and protection of the health insurance, and pharmacetucial industries is to be a “conspiricist.” Unlike Blues, I expect people to do that which maximizes their incomes and minimizes their hard work. Regulatory capture is a guaranteeor of both.
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ELAINE: In your desire to win your arguments, you do pathetic things, CK. Can’t you read at all????
I noted in my blog here that a very few people DIED of food poisoning and that this was sufficient for the public health officials to shut down a food processing plant, remove lots and lots of food from stores and to issue warnings! DUH.
So, tell me again, how the food processors control this? Obviously, if they did, this would never have been done, eh? It is infantile to always assume everyone is evil and all organizations are bad.
November 7, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Mostly rational most of the time Blues.
Even the sad actors from the street of broken dreams are mostly rational most of the time.
November 7, 2009 at 9:04 pm
See, I told you no one would apologize. They just become “apologetics” for their failed theories and march onward.
Which brings us to Greg, master of lies and putting words in other people’s mouths. I am glad to see that you are still licking your wounds after all these years since I satirized your sorry ass to the point you disappeared.
There are no black jewish women in my life and there never have been. They exist only in Greg’s imagination.
However, perhaps now you understand how some wounds never heal. You lost face years ago on a blog, but I lost my sons to a corrupt system dominated by money, power, and influence and a hefty dose of neo-nazi screaming and yelling.
Hard to forget, isn’t it?
November 7, 2009 at 9:58 pm
I know! Greg has outed me! I can’t help it!
It all came to me in a dream one night and ever since then I have searched (mostly in vain) for black jewish chicks (oh, sorry: women) to refresh my life. I cannot stop looking!
It would seem that there must be at least ONE black jewish chick (I mean woman) out there for me, but so far: nada!
Oh well, I guess it is for the best. My wife would not approve anyway.
Thanks for helping me, blues!
November 7, 2009 at 11:12 pm
hahaha devaul your funny
your little brain is so bitter and twisted that the lines between truth and fiction have become blurred to you
oh a pathetic little creature like yourself could never drive me away mate
dont give yourself any credit in that department you flea, its not deserving 
LOL I thrive on the words from funny little people like yourself, they are so predictable……that is, when those words actually resemble some form of a coherent sentence LOL
“There are no black jewish women in my life and there never have been. They exist only in Greg’s imagination.”
These black jewish women are a metaphor, dont deny them now mate….they still run your life Devaul whether you like it or not, whether you deny it or not, …they consume your thoughts day and night, they fill you with a hatred and a burning rage that never wanes, they run the corrupt system that has turned you into the twisted bitter little thing you are………
“master of lies” LOL thats a new one, anyone that knows what I have posted here knows that it has always been 100% fact, maybe taking the piss out of certain people along the way but fact nonetheless…….
thanks Devaul nice to chat again
brings back memories LOL
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ELAINE; Greg, you are being obnoxious as well as stupid.
November 8, 2009 at 3:58 am
its ok blues, i dont mind being deleted, devaul starts things and then doesnt like the direction they take …meh
November 8, 2009 at 5:15 am
Antidepressants and Violence
http://econospeak.blogspot.com/2009/11/antidepressants-and-violence.html
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gotta say… my buddie that killed himself said he did not like the ‘way the drugs made him feel’ and had been sober….
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its hard to say what is what
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but we played poker not a month before and me and another buddy were joking around and i was intimidating he wouldnt get crazy and hurt somebody… he laughed and said no man… and i encouraged him to take the government regiman since he talked to them, the drugs follow through and the other side of involving yourself with instatutionalism… i also pointed out he mite well have avoided the system altogether but to pretend it doesnt exist is foolish…. you fuck up take the drugs…. the system is a crimeless gang of institutionalized paper pushers who dont care who reads what
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and he took the drugs…. and he spoke his mind… and now hes dead
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noones perfect…
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but you got to ask yourself the question about some modern medicine… my dad was on prozac once and he hated it… said it put him out of touch and just lied and stoped taking it…. hes alive
November 8, 2009 at 5:45 am
Here’s a better graph showing percentage of outpatient visits for flu-like-illness over the last 12 years:
http://energyecon.blogspot.com/2009/10/time-normalized-panel-data-for-cdc-us.html
It’s not death rates, it’s the percentage of doctor’s visits for people with flu-like symptoms. So far, people are going to the doctor more for H1N1-like flu than at any time (>8%) since the seasonal flu in 2003.
You can tell this is an unusual flu because of the spike in the spring (week 16), and the “early” start to flu illness this season in late summer (week 32) compared to when it normally starts picking up (~week 48 = December, or January).
Thankfully, the virulence is still pretty low, and most instances of infection are “self-limiting” with few consequences OVERALL. True, every life lost is sad, and we should try to prevent if possible. Bring on the vaccines (or take your chances, there’s little chance H1N1 will be deadly, but even less chance the vaccine will be harmful).
November 8, 2009 at 5:53 am
By the way, does anyone else wonder if the media hype of H1N1 flu is causing people to go to the doctor more for flu-like illnesses than they ordinarily would? Just wondering.
It’s certainly causing people to get more vaccines, even the regular flu shot, before the H1N1 is becoming available.
November 8, 2009 at 6:02 am
I posted the following on Mother Earth News in response to their ‘auto-pilot’ support of this deadly bill working its way through congress. It goes well with Elaine’s comments and observations regarding the takeover by the ‘banksters’ and the carbon trading scheme.
“I stand amazed as I watch all these so-called ‘earth protectors’ screech for the passage of this legislation. When will all of you who support these ‘environmental’ foundations realize they are nothing but pawns in the hands of ‘world corporatism’. You are played like a fiddle and point your fingers at the Christian Right and laugh at their ignorance. They are ignorant of many things but they suffer not from the piousness that the radical left does as they [the left] always in their hubris think they come from higher ground. The left has finally, after 50 years started to get wise to the influence of AIPAC and Israel, who manipulate the ‘right’ as easily as the big dogs of capitalism manipulate the environmental movement. If you could only get wise to this fact we could change the world.
BTW, I’ve never heard a word from anyone on the left or from any environmental group complain about the destructiveness of our fiat money system. Without it, we would probably have only about 3 billion people on the earth, few wars, tremendously less environmental damage to our earth and we, not the corporations would control our political destiny as well as the money system. Think about this. Where the hell are your brains? Where are the writers who dare go to the ‘belly of the beast’ and prepare a fatal blow to the very heart of an evil empire who exploit and destroy our fellow man as well as our good earth? Support of this bill in congress will deal us, the people and the earth a fatal blow as we give total power to corrupt politicians who are in total obedience to the corporate money masters who desire not to preserve this earth…..they wish to exploit it, and us….only strictly on THEIR terms!”
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ELAINE; Fiat money has little to do with population levels. And what force are you talking about, that would decrease human population if we had no ‘fiat money’? Starvation? A total lack of healthcare?
November 8, 2009 at 1:11 pm
K-bo: many have posted the media hype,
especially the “investigation” performed
by CBS and how the Flu is not really the culprit, its other diagnosis. Something a few dont want to understand. Meanwhile denial comes into play knowing that drugs and the FDA have killled more people than the flu: 2 examples, Vioxx-killed over 20,000 world wide, and viagra over 600 people world wided, should I go on? Our pill society doesnt understand that the Flu Vaccine and its interaction with other drugs creates complications. Now you know why the CBS report is less than .01 for the flu.
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ELAINE: Vioxx didn’t single out children. Pills are not the same as germs. That is, people can choose to take a pill but don’t get many choices when it comes to epidemic diseases that spread very easily. Mixing up these things is common for antivaccinationists who want to confuse people.
Also, the reason we don’t see hideous plagues (except for AIDS!) sweep the planet is due to huge, huge medical interventions and very much due to vaccinations. If we return to an unvaccinated world population, the death rate would soar tremendously. Yet, this fact can’t seem to penetrate the fog in the minds of people scared of shots from doctors.
Also, you have zero, zero, zero proof that the flu vaccines interact with ANY drugs. None whatsoever. And this is typical of antivaccinationists: they make up stuff, throw it out and hope to see it stick to the wall.
November 8, 2009 at 1:30 pm
PLovering! Nice that you found that story about Sweden. I already covered that one, but maybe you need reminding:
One million people vaccinated there (oops forgot to add that part, did you? Or your source!). 350 suspected case (unconfirmed source though) of serious adverse effects (OH! My number is EVEN bigger!). So that is: 0,035% of serious adverse effects from vaccine, so far. Also I had 4 reported deaths, but 3 of them were elderly people (one over 90 years of age, others had severe other conditions already, one case was without extra information, yet).
In that news, they say that numbers are probably underreported, I think it is the opposite. But whichever the truth is, we cannot KNOW it until scientists look into it and gather data. In any case, risks of H1N1 outpace by far that 0,035% of “serious adverse effect”. I guess very, very few of those serious effects include week in bed, or in intensive care, or death.
So in any case, this is NOT a big scandal forming. If anything, this is pretty effective evidence of the vaccine being much, much more safer than antivaccination people want us to think it is, and maybe, maybe a bit worse than normal influenza flu shot. But until we have all data, even that is speculation. But a scandal? Sheesh.
November 8, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Also, please include links.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/281228
I don’t like the tone of the article there though, while they mention the million vaccinated, 350 of *claimed* adverse reactions without confirmed source (oops, is it flucase? Even MORE suspicious!).
I went to look into that flushot link in that article, and it is totally hysteric. Example one link:
http://tinyurl.com/ybskzhl
“A very old woman, 90 years old, died a few days (yesterday) after she received the “swine flu” Pandemrix shot. This is the fourth death suspected to be a direct result, or so called “severe side effect” of the new untested and adjuvant spiced injection.”
A VERY OLD WOMAN DIES? Must have been the flu shot, really! …And even so, after few days, not fast at all. If this is the level of their claims… I don’t really believe in that 350 number too at all now.
But hey, really. Even that amounts to very small 0,035% of vaccinated people. They constantly “forget” to mention the amount of vaccinated people so far, since that would really blow out a lot of their hysteria.
And I bet that MANY of those side-effects are psychological, some people believe in all this crap and then they claim to have severe side-effects even if they have just normal vaccine-shot effects, or then they just have a placebo-effect. Time will tell.
November 8, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Ahh.. and they link to Aftonbladet.. I’d guess they could not get any more reliable source HAHAHA!
http://tinyurl.com/yfty28x
“Aftonbladet today reveals that two elderly citizens who took the vaccine died shortly after. They were both already sick or had serious health problems.”
Really people. First the site theflucase reports these as vaccine shot deaths, and then they reveal themselves the facts behind it (90 year old woman, two seriously sick elderly people).
Think about it: Million people vaccinated. Some will die in natural causes in the following days in any case. And this is worth of blaming vaccine for it?
If you believed in the “theflucase” site, this alone should make you seriously doubt ANY validity of any of their claims.
I guess this will be my last take on the subject for a while. If this does not make people think, I don’t think there is much else I can do.
Since I like numbercrunching when it is simple:
World population: 6 billion;
Deaths / day (unreliable internet source): Around 80 000
So, one person in 75 000 dies every day.
That would be 13,333… deaths in that million of vaccinated people / day by natural causes.
Uhm… and here we are hyping up few cases of elderly and sick people? Is this the scandal?
Use your own brains to figure that out.
November 8, 2009 at 2:09 pm
The quality of debate here has sunk to zero. Bells without clappers.
I’m looking forward to Elaines next screed on the wonderful health care bill which passed the senate last night. Now the government can/will MANDATE the wonderful, life giving vaccines!! And send those who don’t want it the bill anyway.
While the simple minded revel in the new mandates, the rest of us in the real world will realize that what passed last night was nothing more than the largest tax increase in history disguised as health care. All the commitments made and taxes paid in the past for medicare/medicaid had a reciprocal commitment that government services would be provided for the lifetime of the recipients. Now the government has passed that burden back to people by requiring THEM to buy healthcare. The burden essentially falls on young people to pay the premiums for the baby boomers thus relieving the government of the responsibility to pay for previously promised benefits…all without including any provisions for tort reform or other items unpopular with the democratic power base.
pure bs served up to the stupid.
November 8, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Jim Dandy, what the hell? HAHAHA.
OK: baby boomers are retiring now. They get government healthcare instantly anyway. This bill actually reduces the money going into public retirement healthcare!!!
So, how is this going to raise taxes? On the other hand, the bill is supposed to help the 45 million Americans who do NOT have any healthcare at all! And many of those are…children.
So you are really complaining about raising taxes to keep children alive. Couple this with your very cruel and heartless hatred of vaccinations for children and I must assume you want them to die.
November 8, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Elaine: go to “worstpills.org”
it gives the information on drug interaction..
no one is going away from any concept, just trying to show that many of the deaths are
drug related also.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: After so many links were given to me going to antivaccination sites that peddled stupid ideas, I no longer need to waste time, going to these places. Look, if there WAS any REAL ‘interaction’ the doctors in the mainstream would note this. My own doctor has said nothing about this. Just for example. And I don’t hate or fear or feel paranoid about my own doctor.
November 8, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Not to distract from the the vaccines but:
The Health care bill has man flaws: I will name a couple: AMA-21% cuts for (doctors) reinbursements under current law, Obama promises to cut that if the AMA endorses the plan-they did, AARP-they have MediGap Insurance instead of being an advocacy for seniors they saw dollar signs,
Bush already passed the Medicare Advantage plan bill which is cheaper than Medigap, Obama cut the Medicare advantage plan, AARP you win ! And the best, Medical Device Makers refused the plan, the senate finance committe imposed a tax on the corporations. Who is really helping the people of this country? You are fooling yourself, Vaccines are just a small part in a big pond.
November 8, 2009 at 3:00 pm
back to our orginal programming……………
November 8, 2009 at 3:00 pm
My wife came home from work with tales of a co-worker and his family contracting H1N1. Because my wife is due to deliver our baby girl on Nov. 12th she has been reluctant to take the same vitamin C & D, zinc, oil of oregano and colloidal silver that I have been taking.
First my son came down with the symptoms but since I had been giving him a similar regime and gave him colloidal silver the moment symptoms appeared, he got over it right quick.
Next my wife was ill. She had it the worse, for reasons already addressed. I am sure Elaine will call me a liar but she is still alive…never even needed a doctor…except to assure her that she could take whatever she wanted without fear of hurting the baby. She took my quack supplements and was fine in a few days.
As for me, with dirty, pack a day lungs and evil germs all over the house, nary a symptom.
Elaine and her follows are a bunch of frightened, easily manipulated children.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: Thank GOD that this disease does not have a 100% death rate! Good lord, even the Black Plague didn’t have that. This doesn’t mean your nostrums worked or are even good for you.
November 8, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Oh, and it’s not that we think the elites are trying to kill anyone. There are better anti-vaccine arguments. It is a shame Elaine doesn’t want to address those.
Stop the fear mongering and empower yourself and your readers with objective analysis.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: HAHAHA. So, you now retreat from that notion? Good. Shows that we are making some minor progress here. But as for your ‘better antivaccine arguments’: there are NONE. Nada. Zilch.
November 8, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Nary a symptom is not entirely true. I had a tingle and some swelling sensation in the back of my throat for about 8 hours. This called for an extra dose of silver which I gurgled before swallowing.
By the way, I have also found colloidal silver to wipe out foot fungus in hours.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: Any quack medicine that cures both throat problems and foot fungus is DANGEROUS. But then, maybe people with feet in their mouths need the same medicine for both.
November 8, 2009 at 3:19 pm
@ Joe – That’s fantastic news!
How much CS did your wife and son take ? Also what was the concentration/PPM ?
Watch out with that damn H1N1. People first get better but then it can come back on a person within a few days- worse than ever. Are they going to keep taking the supplements as a preventative now ?
November 8, 2009 at 3:57 pm
WARNING: this wonder drug is not so wonderful. The people here peddling this will be censored by me if they do this in the future.
November 8, 2009 at 4:49 pm
There’s something not right with this virus. Why isn’t H1N1 showing up in the lab tests ? Why does it often take an autopsy to find it ? A lot of unanswered questions.
By now everyone knows about the Ukraine and the baffled doctors who can’t identify the hemmoraghic condition that’s RAPIDLY killing some of the patients.
I’ve spent the last few days reading through an incredible thread ( up to over 150 pgs with 20 posts per pg). The original poster is a med student from India studying in Lviv ( Ukraine). This med student alerted us to what was happening in the Ukranian hospitals long before the alternative sites in the west picked up on this. Nevermind the MSM. It’s info blackout there… as usual.
Anyway, this thread has people from all over Europe on it – Russia, Poland, ground zero- Ukraine, many countries from eastern Europe ,as well as Canada and USA.
These posters are providing up to the minute info. They are directly translating the Russian, Ukranian, and other Euro papers for us.
This is a VERY careful forum. If anyone provides a tabloid source or an unconfirmed source they are immediately put into line by the other posters. These guys are also great research techies.
For example- How many of you have heard about this ? It goes right along with the “unknown virus ” in Ukraine . But this news is coming out of INDIA :
Snippet :
Date: 2009-11-05
Doctors at Sassoon hospital anxiously await report on 35 patients who died of infection that caused symptoms similar to swine flu
Doctors at Sassoon Hospital, who are in the thick of the swine flu battle, are a worried lot. Thirty-five patients with swine flu-like symptoms died in the last 45 days at the hospital, and not one of them tested positive for swine flu. The doctors still don’t know what caused the death of these patients.
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2009/nov/051109-Sassoon-hospital-Swine-Flu-Casualities-Pune.htm
BTW – I think the group consensus on that forum was that the ” unknown virus” was NOT Pneumonic Plague. They’re leaning more toward an H1N1 mutation but are awaiting the WHO lab results from the samples sent to London.But they also suspect that we are NOT being told the truth about this virus and what it’s doing.
A poster in Prague was also able to obtain an interview with one of the top virologists/epidemiologists in Prague this coming Tuesday. The doctor is now retired but has maintained his inside connections so the guys on the forum are hoping to get some info outside of official channels.
A lot of the posters on that forum are in the medical field themselves- some are pharmacists, others nurses etc.
Most could care less one way or the other about the vaccines. Most , pro or con, think the vaccines will be worthless in any event.
November 8, 2009 at 4:58 pm
And why are all the MSM stories about how H1N1 is killing babies, pregnant women and young people ?
Wall Street Journal . Nov 04, 2009
Snippet :
Swine-Flu Deaths Higher in the Elderly
People age 50 and older who were hospitalized with the swine flu in California had the highest fatality rate from the illness, while those younger than 18 had the lowest death rates…..
Of the 1,088 hospitalization and death reports in California, 118 were deaths, which translates into fatality rate of 11%, researchers said…..For people age 50 and older, the fatality rate was as high as 20%….
…… recent analysis conducted by the CDC involving 292 deaths reported by 28 states from Aug. 30 to Oct. 10. The percentage of deaths in people age 24 and younger was 24%, and in those ages 25 to 64, it was 64%. Twelve percent of the deaths occurred in people age 65 and older.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703740004574513903595607412.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories
November 8, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Elaine: No one is marketing or advertising what a certain type of product can do. They are just showing that Alternatives are out there through experience. If your going to have this debate, I feel all sides should be included. It seems like when something postive comes about against the swine flu
vaccine, you turn your head, thats not fair.
The debate continues. No word from our sponsor…………………………………………………….
November 8, 2009 at 5:32 pm
@Sky:
H1N1 not shown in lab tests? You are totally in your own world, aren’t you?
@Joe:
Most of the people who catch H1N1 will be cured within a week, as long as they rest. As it is with most of viruses & bacteria. So, it is easy to imagine you have cured yourself if you want to.
November 8, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Sky, so uhm… about that forum you wrote so much.
You did not give any solid information at all. As long as you don’t have any links to any data, I take it as all speculation.
And official statement currently is: “We don’t know the cause yet, and are looking into it.”
It takes a conspiracy nut to build something out from that, but it’s not surprising it is already happening.
November 8, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Oh, that official statement from Ukraine situation, sorry forgot to mention it.
November 8, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Duski, I do not imagine being cured as we are healthy and their is nothing to cure. Typically, as with this case, rest is never even neccessary for the germs never get a foot hold. My wife never even missed a day of work. She is quite a trooper.
“ELAINE: Thank GOD that this disease does not have a 100% death rate! Good lord, even the Black Plague didn’t have that. This doesn’t mean your nostrums worked or are even good for you.”
Try applying your logic consistently and with your vaccines and all of it’s correlational proofs.
You seem to have problems with listening. I have never proposed that the elite are trying to kill. I HAVE, repeatedly tried to get you off using that to define your opposition. I also did not have throat problems. I had glands in my throat swelling in response to a foreign invader.
Sky, we use 10 ppm, .0008 micron particle size. Only at signs of illness, not as prevention. Our entire family has been over it for almost two weeks now. We do take vitamin C & D daily. I also cleanse my sinuses with an oil of Oregano spray a couple time a week.
November 8, 2009 at 6:07 pm
@ Duski – I can spoonfeed you, but don’t expect me to CHEW your food for you as well.
Do some of your own damn research would ya ? It’s OLD news that H1N1 is NOT showing up in standard lab tests ….a lot of false positives and negatives. Go to the CDC site and confirm this information for yourself.
The information I’ve posted here is pretty basic. There’s absolutely no point in getting technical or using complicated medical terminology on this forum. I DID go to the trouble of posting HOW the vaccines are made ( allantoic sacs of 10-13 day old chicken embryos etc ). Beyond THAT I’m not going to go.
If you want to get into the right places on sites like the CDC or John Hopkins then you need to know and UNDERSTAND the correct terminology.
I’ll give you a bonus keyword.
These keywords will take you to accredited medical sites ( like the CDC ) where you can read FOR YOURSELF how the mainstream medical community is well aware of how vaccines are in fact spreading the very viruses they are meant to prevent.
Those keywords are -’ reversion to neurovirulence ‘.
You can also use’ reversion to pathogenicity ‘.
Those keywords refer to vaccines , specifically vaccines that use attenuated viruses. NOBODY knows how long the attenuated viruses remain in their weakened state before reverting to varying degrees of toxicity. But the mainstream medical community is WELL aware of what these vaccines are in fact doing.
Use the keywords I gave you and see if you can find the site from the Jamaican health authorities where they are crying out for a STOP to the oral polio vaccine because it’s CAUSING polio.
Now, go do your homework. THEN we can talk.
November 8, 2009 at 6:19 pm
@ Joe- Thnx . But how much CS did you take every day and how often ? Hurry up before your info gets banned.
November 8, 2009 at 6:22 pm
You make a claim, you provide a link. It is tedious enough to show time after time where antivaccine crowd makes errors, I’ll not search for the claims they make as well.
If you have evidence, provide it, then I’ll look into it.
November 8, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Anyway, let me guess: You will present that quick laboratory tests reliability for H1N1 range around 10-70% and rest of H1N1 cases are diagnosed as other influenza. But let me bet that your information stops here, claiming that “How then can we report such high H1N1 numbers?”.
If the case in point is suspected to be H1N1, the sample will be sent for cultivation. This takes more time, but it will give accurate results in the end.
http://tinyurl.com/yzs6t2w
Look for figure 4.
But hey, if you want to believe they lie, there is nothing I can do. Beliefs cannot be mitigated with facts anyway.
November 8, 2009 at 6:50 pm
@ Duski – Trying to get you guys to do some basic, fundamental research is like trying to pull wisdom teeth with a pair of tweezers.
Believe me, you won’t understand this stuff if you’re too lazy to even type a few words ( that I provided) into a keyboard. Search engines are NOT toys.
Here’s ONE link for you. The Jamaican one.
Sigh….you won’t understand the acronyms in this article.
cVDPV – this stands for circulating
vaccine derived polio virus.
( vaccine derived means that the vaccine is CAUSING the polio)
OPV – Oral Polio Vaccine
Snippets:
West Indian Medical Journal
Print ISSN 0043-3144
West Indian med. j. vol.57 no.5 Mona Nov. 2008
Molecular analysis and implications of neurovirulent circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus in Jamaica: a case report and review of literature
As the goal to eradicate wild polio virus (WPV) is approached, outbreaks associated with vaccine derived polioviruses (VDPV) with neurovirulent properties have emerged.
The circulation of VDPV will continue as long as oral polio vaccine (OPV) is in use (2–4, 9, 10). One of the critical factors defined by the WHO in the global eradication of Polio is the need to stop all Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV) use once wild polioviruses (WPVs) have been era-dicated (2). If surveillance emphasis does not greatly enhance the observation of cVDPV, detection of emerging neurovirulent cVDPV associated with non-paralytic and paralytic polio cases may be overlooked…..
In the WHO immunization surveillance assessment and monitoring system, the word “Polio”, refers to all polio cases (indigenous or imported) including polio cases caused by vaccine-derived polioviruses (VDPV). This assessment and monitoring system however does not include cases of vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) and cases of non- polio acute flaccid paralysis [AFP]
Poliovirus isolates are classified as vaccine, vaccine-derived (VDPV) or wild type poliovirus based on the per cent nucleotide sequence homology between ….
The potential risk of cVDPV poliomyelitis has increased dramatically and is reflected in outbreaks which have occurred in Hispaniola (Type 1) 2000-01, the Philippines (Type-1) 2001, and Madagascar (Type-2) (2001-02). Occurrences of these cases have been associated with Sabin OPV subtypes 1, 2 and 3. The greatest risk of infection has been associated with OPV subtype- 2 and is related to its increased transmission within communities
http://caribbean.scielo.org/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0043-31442008000500018&lng=en&nrm=.pf
This article is only one of MANY and focuses on oral polio vaccine and how the vaccines are spreading the virus.
November 8, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Sky, quit wasting time arguing with idiots. The info you present will be utilized, or it won’t. Just know there are people who listen but those who operate on belief’s cannot be reasoned with and will overwhelm the discussion of you let them.
As for the colloidal silver. I take one tablespoon doses, under the tongue, or gargled until absorbed (minute or so). I take at first signs and usually only a few doses spread out over a day or so. I’ve never gone on to need it longer but in this nano form you’d need to use it daily for decades for any chance of turning blue.
November 8, 2009 at 7:25 pm
That study might be valid for all I know. So? Vaccinating for polio is still a better choice. If the concerns raised in that particular study are correct, all it means is that we should aim to only try and improve that particular vaccine
In any case:
http://www.polioeradication.org/content/fixed/opvcessation/opvc_vdpv.asp
“On very rare occasions, in areas where polio immunization coverage has been low, vaccine viruses have regained the ability to circulate in a population, and cause paralysis.
Between 1997 and 2007, over 10 billion doses of OPV were administered worldwide. In the same period, nine cVDPV outbreaks in nine countries were confirmed, resulting in fewer than 200 polio cases (table in PDF).
By contrast, during this same period, wild poliovirus has caused more than 33,100 cases worldwide.”
So… you say we should stop polio vaccinations since cVDPV kills fewer people than polio? Uhm, you know, this would SKYROCKET polio deaths INSTANTLY. This is just great example how facts get twisted to fit agenda.
ONCE AGAIN, antivaccine side represented only half of the truth. Well, maybe you just did not happen to think things through. But cVDPV problem is still tiny compared to polio deaths. Also you probably do not want to believe this sentence (same link as above):
“Importantly, if a population is fully immunized against polio, it will be protected against the spread of both wild and vaccine strains of poliovirus.”
So there. Instead, when part of population is not vaccinated, then the virus gets multiple millions of chances to mutate into more dangerous forms.
November 8, 2009 at 7:26 pm
Ok, after skimming through all the arguments and counter arguments, I am fairly certain now that this antivaccination view is actually a kind of religion based on faith alone to start with and then some desperate searching for any fact or claim that will support the faith based religious view. Any attempt to interject simple logic into the debate is ignored or batted aside.
Perhaps the Arc of the Covenant holds the secret! Maybe it was colliding silver that jumped out of that box and killed everyone in that Indian Jones film. We will never know until we find it, so keep looking!!!!
November 8, 2009 at 7:27 pm
People consume silver every day in their food and water.
Your daily diet may contain about 90 micrograms of silver. 350 micrograms of silver is equivalent to 70 milliliters (14 tsp) of 5 PPM colloidal silver. This is the amount that the EPA standards permit an individual to consume from natural sources.
November 8, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Do you need more proof, Duski ?
American Journal of
EPIDEMIOLOGY- John Hopkins University
Snippets
Keep in mind while you’re reading this that OPV stands for oral polio VACCINE…..so when they refer to OPV viruses they mean VACCINE caused polio viruses)
Several studies
have detected secondary spread of OPV viruses by
serologic monitoring of unvaccinated individuals in
areas known to be free of wild-type viruses.
A seroprevalence
study among preschool children
with no record of prior vaccination in Houston, Texas, and Detroit, Michigan, showed convincing evidence of secondary
spread of OPV viruses (42 percent type 2 seroprevalence
in unvaccinated children) (73).
Another study among Italian gypsy populations with very low
vaccine coverage revealed greater than 90 percent seropositivity to type 2 poliovirus, which has been virtually eradicated from Europe, irrespective of vaccination status.
Such evidence reveals that OPV viruses, especially
type 2, are transmitted frequently to susceptible individuals
in direct contact with vaccinees and possibly
also via infected nonvaccinees.
End of snippets.
Look, these studies in this article go on and on. Read them for yourself.
They clearly show how the VACCINATED people are spreading the disease to those who have NOT been vaccinated.
Or is John Hopkins now also a ” conspiracy ” site ?
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/150/10/1001.pdf
November 8, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Also look at the numbers. 10 billion doses. 200 polio cases. This number is very tiny indeed.
Then again, the study you linked is for MORE vaccines, not less:
“The finding of cVDPV as documented is indicative of possible gaps in the immunization coverage (2, 3, 9). Continued assessment of immunization coverage and immunization campaigns are essential if a goal of 95% polio vaccine coverage is to be achieved.”
So that study too, claims that the problem is because not everyone have been vaccinated (or immunized) yet! Uh, so you wanted to prove exactly what with this?
November 8, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Hey thank-you Joe. And good advice about wasting my time.
I’m outta here…back to the forum with the European pharmacists and doctors who KNOW what they’re talking about when it comes to diseases.
Later : – )
November 8, 2009 at 7:54 pm
My previous post meant that for previous link, not that Oxford one. Hum, so that Oxford paper is from 1999. Obviously, scientists knew about this problem even then, and have followed development of things ever since. Where is the hiding of things here, again?
Uh.. what was the point of this again? Oh, right! So are you arguing that people who have not been vaccinated, might catch a mutated version of poliovirus? That may very well be true, really! They might catch the original as well. So instead of less vaccinations, we should strive for higher coverage!
“A seroprevalence study among preschool children with no record of prior vaccination in Houston, Texas, and Detroit, Michigan, showed convincing evidence of secondary
spread of OPV viruses (42 percent type 2 seroprevalence in unvaccinated children) (73).”
How did this twist in your mind to other way in any case? Let me guess: you want to blame vaccines, no matter what. Without vaccines, we would have wild polio killing everywhere. With vaccines, we have mutated, maybe even more lame virus killing those who HAVE NOT BEEN vaccinated. Well… how come we should vaccinate less then? HUH?
Still the same Oxford paper:
“In addition, high levels of natural or vaccine-attributable herd immunity may have limited the ability of OPV viruses to circulate.” And goes on from there to say that herd immunity has eliminated virus from circulation over time.
And this you present as evidence for LESS vaccinations? HUH?
November 8, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Really, I don’t want to drive anyway away. But so far I have seen zero evidence. That is why I am really annoyed, but I’ll take on anything you show me.
November 8, 2009 at 8:01 pm
… well, that promise is maybe a bit too much. But if I feel like it, anyway.
November 8, 2009 at 8:02 pm
OK ,one final post, and then let this be the END of this nonsense Duski.
I do not care if you take the vaccine. I do not care if anyone takes the vaccine. I do not care what you believe about vaccines, or don’t believe about vaccines.
What I DO care about is that we are given a CHOICE in the matter of whether to vaccinate or not.
Those of you who want the shots- Go for it !
Those of us who don’t want the shots – STOP trying to push your vaccines on us!
Duski, we can throw data at each other till the cows come home. It won’t change anything.
My data shows clearly that those of us who choose NOT to vaccinate are in danger from those who DO get the shots. NOT the other way around.
November 8, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Ah, so this is the axe you were grinding!
So you want to have I dunno, millions times of more risk of getting polio if no one vaccinates, compared to most people vaccinating, and maybe finally total elimination of it?
Sorry, no dice. It’s your choice, but a very foolish one, in my opinion.
November 8, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Naturally, I could also say, that everyone who decides NOT to vaccine themselves, risk us all for letting virus a chance to mutate into a strain no one is protected against.
November 8, 2009 at 8:33 pm
But I’ll repeat this one anyway:
http://www.polioeradication.org/content/fixed/opvcessation/opvc_vdpv.asp
“On very rare occasions, in areas where polio immunization coverage has been low, vaccine viruses have regained the ability to circulate in a population, and cause paralysis.
Between 1997 and 2007, over 10 billion doses of OPV were administered worldwide. In the same period, nine cVDPV outbreaks in nine countries were confirmed, resulting in fewer than 200 polio cases (table in PDF).
By contrast, during this same period, wild poliovirus has caused more than 33,100 cases worldwide.”
Fewer than 200 polio cases all around the world because of vaccinations. 33 100 cases without it. How, regarding these numbers, can you be afraid of catching polio because of vaccinations? Do you live near jungle areas, with population that has still polio circulating actively in them? Huh?
November 8, 2009 at 9:51 pm
This is what I think about vaccinations.
Vaccinations make total sense for those diseases that are basically the same year after year (such as polio).
On the other hand, if a disease (so to speak) changes year after year, then that is a disease that likely will “take advantage” of a vaccination. So why even try. Why not rely on your own immune system.
Regardless, this is just my opinion, and I state it as such upfront. Make up your own mind seems to be simple advice in my opinion.
Later,
Ken
November 8, 2009 at 10:15 pm
So I tell you this also. A long time ago I said the infectious rate of H1N1 is high. It will for sure infect many.
The question becomes what is the best manner to defend yourself? In my opinion, odds of survival make a big difference in this question. Try to refute fear would be my advice.
I can’t deny that I have an attitude when it comes to modern medicine and all its supposed remedies. I’d just assume listen to my grandma if she was still alive, but she ain’t alive any more, and so now I have to make up my mind on my own.
Don’t we all?
So anyhow, I have no reason to trust any who are in authority, but nor do I have any reason to resist. Now is the time to bide our time and to wait until the proper moment. That is what I think.
Peace is what I want. What do you want?
Ken
?
November 8, 2009 at 10:56 pm
@buffalo ken, “This is what I think about vaccinations.”
One gets polio from contaminated water.
The USA started serious chlorination of its water supplies at about the same time the polio vaccine was introduced.
We’ve replaced polio with cancer.
November 8, 2009 at 11:30 pm
@blues, “My understanding is that the colloidal silver made at home by means of electrolysis is mostly too large in particle size to pass through the digestive tract. If the particle size was small enough, more people would develop argyria (turn dark blue).”
As usual your understanding is ass backwards.
Electrolysis produces silver nanoparticles whether made at home or in a factory.
Colloidal silver nanoparticles easily pass through the mucus membrane and digestive tract. No problem.
And nobody turns blue on silver nanoparticles, because that is IMPOSSIBLE.
Please hold your future science postings.
You are starting to sound like duski.
November 8, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Nah – cancer has been around for a long, long time. It serves its role. Taking a vaccination to avoid polio makes total sense to me. Polio is simple as best I know.
The flu virus on the other hand is something else entirely. Changes by definition from one year to the next. Constant change. This makes this virus something else entirely. Don’t you think?
So how does one defend against constant change? I think the defense defers to history. The defense defers to that which has worked for so long. Our immune system is based upon many generations. Generations upon generations. Vacinnations against the flu (which is a constantly changing viral disease) are risky “by definition” seems to me. Especially given the current modern industrial infrastructure which is full of flaws. Eventually such vaccinations will cause way more trouble than good.
I’m sick of risk being played around with by others. I’m sick of risk being used as a tool. Risk is part of our day to day reality, but it is up to us to choose how to respond to a risky situation. The annual flu will keep on coming back one year after the next…..it seems to me for this disease we are best off just relying upon our natural immune defense. But this is just my personal opinion on this medical issue.
When it comes to economics and accountants, we should all know that we have been SCREWED from the top on down. SCREWED so bad that all this other stuff ain’t gonna mean a hill of beans………
It ain’t gonna mean a hill of beans.
Tell me othewise. Please. I want to know.
November 9, 2009 at 1:03 am
@Buffalo,
First, much obliged for the serious and provocative posting. Good to have you back, and out of Elaine’s doghouse.
I was in the doghouse myself just recently for posting adverse effects of Tamiflu. Huge no no … fucken with lizard profits! The PTB fell on Elaine like a ton of brick, and I ended up posted to the doghouse. Shit runs downhill.
So you think polio vaccine is a no-brainer and makes total sense, best you know? Well, you would be wrong. The math says you’d be better off without the polio vaccine.
http://tinyurl.com/ycmp8pn
Eagles game.
Finish this later.
November 9, 2009 at 1:43 am
“Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the CHILDREN”
November 9, 2009 at 9:46 am
http://tinyurl.com/ycmp8pn
“Injections: Several studies have shown that injections (for antibiotics or other vaccines) increase susceptibility to polio. In fact, researchers have known since the early 1900s that paralytic poliomyelitis often started at the site of an injection.(10,11)”
This was time before we even had polio vaccine. Also, those researches are from “early 1900s”. I’d guess we have more information now? And we did have, but those papers obviously did not promote against polio vaccine either. I would not place my bets in “early 1900s” research in this case, since we do have more current data available. Unless I wanted to believe in certain agenda…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine
“Two polio vaccines are used throughout the world to combat poliomyelitis (or polio). The first was developed by Jonas Salk and first tested in 1952″
So, at least this vaccine was not the reason polio spread at the start.
“As the incidence of wild polio diminishes, nations transition from use of the oral vaccine back to the injected vaccine because the direct risk of iatrogenic polio (VAPP) due to OPV outweighs the indirect benefit of immunization via subclinical transmission of OPV. When IPV is used, reversion is not possible but there remains a small risk of clinical infection upon exposure to reverted OPV or wild polio virus. Following the widespread use of polio vaccines in the mid-1950s, the incidence of poliomyelitis declined rapidly in many industrialized countries. The use of OPV was discontinued in the United States in 2000 and in 2004 in the UK, but it continues to be used around the globe.[13][24]”
Also, to my knowledge, where polio has been eradicated, and risk of it returning is not considered high, the more dangerous form of immunization is not often even used.
It still needs to be used at polio epidemic sites, since it gives better protection against it.
In any case:
“The rate of vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis (VAPP) varies by region but is generally about 1 case per 750,000 vaccine recipients.[36] VAPP is more likely to occur in adults than in children.”
So, lets compare this to that 5% of getting wild polio, and remember that 1 / 1000 will get muscular paralysis from it. Even if we take only the worst case wild polio into consideration: 1 / 1000 vs 1 / 750 000? Which was greater risk again?
November 9, 2009 at 1:15 pm
@ Duski – Way to go ! Sorry if I was prickly yesterday, but it did light a fire under your butt and you DID some research. Mission accomplished.
Never believe what ANYBODY says, least of all the serial liars in the govt/military/corp complex. Always look into everything for yourself and draw your own conclusions based on what YOU have learned for yourself.
And , most importantly, remain OPEN to new information because that info is coming at us at warp speed these days. Just make sure never to confuse propaganda with REAL information.
Most of the real info never comes from official sources, that information is purely agenda driven.Whistle blowers who have worked inside the corrupt system are a great source, as are the millions of regular little people who analyze a situation and say – Wait a minute. What they’re telling us just doesn’t add up. That’s why the elite HATE the net.
Let’s not get too hung up on the Polio vaccines. Nuff said. We need to get up to speed with the H1N1.I’m going to see if there’s any new info re- the gene sequencing in the Ukraine virus.
Will check back later.
November 9, 2009 at 1:56 pm
“Never confuse propaganda with real information.”
Sigh. I’ll tell you one thing: So far, every single one of antivaccine claim has proven to be 100% BS propaganda, mostly by doctors who promote alternative health advice. So far none of the evidence has hold against basic scrutuny.
If you feel like I am on your side after reading my previous post, then I feel like you will alter anything just to fit your image of how things are, no matter what the facts are. Maybe this was not your intention though, and I just read too much into your words.
November 9, 2009 at 4:29 pm
@ Duski- I don’t have a ‘ side”.I’m not an adherent of group think. My intention was to get you to think independently.
The reason that alternative health is so huge is that allopathic health care has many shortfalls and is in bed with the govt.
Many people go through the regular health care system and are often misdiagnosed or UNdiagnosed. Some surgeries work. Some don’t. They leave you crippled. Some pills work. Some don’t.
You had you swine flu shot yet ? If no….why not ?
November 9, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I’d go and take my swine flu shot instantly, if I could. But I am not in the first risk groups, so I have to wait my turn.
November 9, 2009 at 5:02 pm
I live in Finland, btw. Sometimes my writing could make me seem as US citizen by accident, though.
November 9, 2009 at 5:17 pm
@ Duski- Ah, Finland. I’m from another northern gulag – Canada.
So limited shots available ? Same in Canada and USA. What happened ?
First the system scares everybody half to death….get the shot…get the shot…or you could die!
Next, there are NO shots available for many of those who want them.
But the govts and Big Pharma all promised that the shots would be there in plenty of time before flu season.They lied.
And you trust these guys?
November 9, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Look, all the news have been coherent here all the time. We were told that vaccine will not be in time (before autumn), but probably we will get shipments before worst epidemic. This was totally on the spot.
Next, from the start the information provided was that not everyone can get vaccinated instantly, but risk groups are first in line. Etc.
I have not noticed any of the distortion of the information you are telling me about.
November 9, 2009 at 6:51 pm
“Next, there are NO shots available for many of those who want them.”
Also, even this is not true. At the moment we are told that everyone who wants gets the vaccine in due time, after we have it for everyone.
November 9, 2009 at 6:53 pm
But naturally, I am only writing from my perspective here in Finland, I have no knowledge of possible blunders in there Canada.
November 9, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Hi
My Son (6.5 years old) is in the middle of the flue and today got a test confirming H1N1 but he is doing fine. He is the only one with high fever (103 highest). My daughter (6.5 years old) is threw it and back in school. I’m also mostly in the middle I hope. My wife is just starting to feel sick.
The problem with it all is that the test at most doctors takes 2 days unless they purchased the tests and can do it in the office. The medication should be administered in the first 24 hours for best effectiveness. So by the time its test confirmed it will be too late anyway. Two other families across the street had it for sure, but they were not tested. Same symptoms and kids are in the same school as ours. Many kids are out sick but officially the school is not stating H1N1. I believe they were instructed not to as its impossible that with so many sick kids over the past 3-4 weeks, none got tested, confirmed and reported. We called the school, will see if they distribute the info about confirmed case. So far the school only reported 0.2 % kids out with flu like symptoms. They did not give actual number of students. I think that from what I read the fatality rate is so far quite low therefore the authorities do not want to create panic and just handle it like a normal flu or they want to sell as many vaccinations as possible? Who knows but definitely the gov and school is not taking it seriously at all or are totally incompetent.
Stay healthy, we all started with dry coughing. Check for fever although my daughter did not have any and I think I did not as well. Mostly flu like symptoms.
Darius
November 10, 2009 at 4:24 am
The actual reason many are perishing is “cytokine storm.” This is essentially the nuclear weapon of the immune system. It can totally destroy the lungs or heart. The virus does not do the damage; rather, the body launches this all-or-nothing attack. The virus itself would fare much better if this were not to occur. But the human body has this, as a last resort. It can destroy any vital organ that it targets. So some versions of the 2009/H1N1 virus can stimulate this usually fatal immune response.
It will possibly be self-limiting, since when the host dies, the invader usually dies with it. Except in cases of hemorrhagic disease, when spilling blood becomes the vector.
November 10, 2009 at 7:26 am
Hi blues….I’m in western Canada- British Columbia. We’re H1N1 central. Back east it seems to be dying down. Not here.
I’ve got a bunch of family members down with what we’re assuming is Swine Flu ( the symptoms fit, and their doctors also think it’s H1N1).
So far my brother, 2 nephews, and 2 of my sisters are stricken. I’ve got 3 sisters working in the health care field. They’ve all had the Swine Flu shots ( limited availabilty for everyone else though). One of my sisters who had the shot just came down with H1N1 this weekend.
Some of the Canadian doctors back east are now recommending that people do NOT take the shots. It’s kind of irrelevant advice because the shots are pretty much unavailable for the general public anyway.
I’m staying in isolation as much as possible. But I usually pick up all the crud that’s going around, so I suppose it’s just a matter of time before I get sick too.It’ll be interesting to see what happens because hubby and I are now both taking Vit D. And I’m definitely going to add some CS to my arsenal of herbs and tea.
I’ll put up a post telling you how this virus has affected my family members.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: Word of warning: no flu shot is perfect. If someone is working in healthcare and gets shots, but is around sick people all the time, they can still get the disease but it won’t be as bad as if they had no flu shots at all.
And do note that even Sky’s family is being savaged by this flu. It is no small matter. I hope no one in your family has bad side effects or the pneumonia associated with this flu. Remember: the only real control of this flu is vaccinations. Not vitamins.
November 10, 2009 at 7:50 am
“I think what would work better would be to say that there was a shortage and people tend to buy more of something that’s in demand. (Laughter.) We saw that — there was one season where, really, people lined up all night to get a flu shot.” – (Lone Simonsen, Research Professor and Research Director, Department of Global Health, George Washington University), at the Session I of a Council On Foreign Relations Symposium on Pandemic Influenza: Science, Economics and Foreign Policy
http://tinyurl.com/yf5ccdq
November 10, 2009 at 8:43 am
My brother and nephews were the first to come down with this bug- over a month ago. They’re all having a hell of a time trying to shake it. Initially they were very sick ( no cytokine storm though, thank God). And then they felt better for a couple of weeks but then the virus came back on all 3 of them with a vengeance . At that point they all took antibiotics and are feeling somewhat better.
With my sisters, it’s too early to know what will happen. The health care worker ( the one who had the H1N1 shot) went to her doctor immediately when she got the symptoms. Her doctor REFUSED to put her on any kind of meds ( he said her body just had to fight it out). Both my sisters are still in the early stages and are quite sick. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
I think it’s important to not get complacent with this virus if you come down with it. It is one sneaky bugger. It seems like you’re getting better but then it comes back. So my advice is to really baby yourself for weeks after you THINK you’ve recovered.
And if you do get the H1N1 rebound, definitely go to the doctor because it could well be a secondary bacterial infection that antibiotics will help with.
********************************
VITAMIN D PRECAUTION :
Vitamin D is all the rage at the moment. Most of us in the northern hemisphere are more than likely deficient, especially during the non-summer months. And it’s a SHORT summer up here.
I’m convinced of the benefits of vit D, but now I have to offer a word of caution.
Anyone who is taking vit D long term : PLEASE get your vit D blood levels checked.
There is a complex interaction between calcium and vit D . Vit D is wonderful for your bones, immune system, improving sleep etc….BUT…..if you don’t have adequate calcium available in your blood stream then this could spell trouble.
If you have too much vit D and not enough calcium, the vit D can steal the calcium from your bones. And at that point the vit D will actually weaken your bones, instead of strengthening them like it’s intended to.
So monitor your D levels everyone if you’ve been taking high doses/ long term.
Remember that vits A, D, and E are fat soluble. So your body stores these. And you CAN create more problems than you’re trying to solve if you take too much of these vitamins.
The water soluble vits like C and the B complexes are safer because your body eliminates any extra .
But, I still wouldn’t mess around with high doses of the Bs because the Bs work together ( synergistic ). Taking a high dose of just one of the Bs without a corresponding amount in the OTHER B vitamins can also spell trouble.
As I’ve said before, I’m a cautious sort. I want to know all the pros and cons of whatever I’m putting into my body. That applies to the flu shots ( which I will NOT be getting) and it applies equally to the supplements I choose for myself.
November 10, 2009 at 9:35 am
My main concern with this flu is the zoonotic aspects of it.It’s already been found in swine, turkeys, cats, ferrets, and now possibly minks in Denmark.
http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSL6704217
If the avian elements within H1N1 become more dominant this could spell disaster.
And how did H1N1 make it to this location ?
Snippets
ANCHORAGE, Alaska
“Diomede is probably the most isolated place in the United States right now,”…
Diomede, located less than three miles from Russia’s Big Diomede Island in the Bering Strait, is all the more isolated because passenger air service was halted four months ago when the sole helicopter used for that purpose was sidelined for repairs.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572908,00.html?test=latestnews
How did the virus get there?
November 10, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Sky, you ask how the virus travels. It has been proven that it travels via germs hijacking a ride on everything from money, etc.
BOATS go there. And on these boats are humans and other stuff. See how simple it is to figure stuff out?
As for vitamin abuse: overusing it is bad. Don’t do it. Remember: health food stores and their operatives do NOT run statistical analysis of their own pills, etc. They keep no records. So anyone who dies of this stuff, are detected by doctors who do NOT prescribe this stuff.
Unlike modern meds that are tracked very carefully.
November 10, 2009 at 8:08 pm
I think that what Sky is addressing is that there is a fair chance that the 2009/H1N1 could be transmitted globally by birds, and that might have been the easiest way for the virus to arrive at this remote place. Such a new vector, of course, would be bad.
Hypervitaminosis is not generally a great health threat, except in the case of vitamin A, which can actually be fatal in very large doses. Of course, it is unwise to take excessive amounts of vitamins. Vitamin D3 is being recommended currently as something that might help cases of this new flu. It is unlikely to cause much trouble unless taken without adequate amounts of calcium. It is generally recommended that calcium be taken with adequate amounts of magnesium.
November 10, 2009 at 8:25 pm
@ blues- Yup, that would be my guess. The birds. Alfred Hitchcock was ahead of his time. He knew something we didn’t.
BTW – Great way to get some extra magnesium into your system is to add some epsom salts to your bath.
November 10, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Nope, it was probably via boats. The story was about how easy AIR travel was severed but NOT the much harder boat travel.
November 11, 2009 at 11:30 am
Update from Finland:
people vaccinated:
350 000, death toll 0,00%.
Estimated number people who had swine flu:
50 000, death toll 6 (2 totally healty people 8 year old girl and an 18 year old girl)
Number of people in intensive care with H1N1:
400
People without complications are no longer tested for H1N1. So official numbers of infected don´t go up.
So WHO and official estimates are pretty much right on the money so far.
And just wait for the winter. Here you can pretty much see H1N1 explode at the same time the day temperatures go below 0 degrees celsius.
November 11, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Flu report : British Columbia
Mainsteam Radio – Yesterday on my local radio station the announcer was questioning whether the H1N1 shots were safe because so many people in my city were ending up in our hospital AFTER receiving the shots.
Was it the shots themselves ? Was it the fact that they’re vaccinating DURING our huge outbreak here ? Were these people already incubating H1N1 in their systems and did these shots then overload their systems, landing them in the hospital ?
I don’t have the answers.
Heard about someone who had this flu who ended up in the hospital on a respirator. He made it, but the doctors just told this 30 something yr old that it would take a year of physiotherapy before he regained his health. What the hell ?Physiotherapy ?
Also spoke to some close friends whose entire family had H1N1 over 6 weeks ago. They threw every natural cure at this bug, PLUS antibiotics and they’re all still feeling crappy. Congested, sore throats, and coughs to this day. The neverending flu. That’s what this thing looks like.
At my end anyway. : – (
@ JT – Did you guys in Finland get the same vaccine formula as Canada ?
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: One can hear all kinds of strange things on the radio that are NOT backed up by facts. Good lord, how gullible are you?
About vaccinations: if you get one right at the same time you are getting the first symptoms, you will still get sick since the vaccination is TOO LATE. This concept of being too late is hard for antivaccinationists to accept.
Of course, the damn antivaccinationists whined like crazy for ‘more tests’ so the vaccinations would be even more delayed.
November 11, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Radio is far more accurate than other media because you get to hear from the people THEMSELVES .
And a person doesn’t need symptoms to be incubating the flu already. From what I’ve read, most people are asymtomatic for a number of days before they get the flu.
Don’t blame the antivaccinationists for the delay in the vaccines. More tests had nothing to do with this situation. First of all the H1N1 viruses are taking longer to replicate in the chicken embryos than the other seasonal flu viruses. And Pharma simply doesn’t have the capacity to deliver on their promises of on-time, plentiful vaccines.
Producing vaccines is a lengthy process.
How’re the H1N1 outbreaks back east ?
The news is poor. One day I read that Canada has reached its peak. The next day I read that numbers are still rising in BC. I can tell you they’re skyrocketing in my valley.
November 11, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Link to govt document :2003
Influenza as a bioweapon
Snippets :
we must …..consider the possibility of malicious genetic engineering to create more virulent strains. Sequencing of the genome of the 1918 Spanish influenza virus is nearly complete; once it is published, unscrupulous scientists could presumably utilize candidate virulence sequences
Influenza is usually transmitted by direct contact but can also be transmitted by aerosol (e.g. on a passenger plane).
influenza virus is readily accessible and may be causing more deaths than previously suspected, the possibility for genetic engineering and aerosol transmission suggests an enormous potential for bioterrorism.
influenza is readily available, whereas known stocks of smallpox are secured at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta and at a facility in Russia
because influenza occurs naturally, a cluster of cases would not prompt an investigation, and an epidemic would have a considerable head start on public health authorities.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539539/
November 11, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Bioterrorism is the Viral Empire at work, dummy. It has been doing this for eons, quite literally. Before there were any mammals.