The shifts in international power continue as world trade continues to flounder on the rocks of the new ZIRP system. China is one of the very few nations capable of unilaterally changing the course of world trade. The US could do this but this means truly embracing protectionism as our new ideology.
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Trying to warm up engine, woman sets car on fire_English_Xinhua
A woman in Tianjin municipality made a fire under her car, thinking it would warm up the vehicle’s engine on Monday. The car went up in flames. The woman, who thought up the strange idea after her car failed to start, placed wood and newspapers under the vehicle and lit a fire.
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This story from the Chinese news service is a great metaphor for the credit collapse in the West: the paper and wood stuck under the stalled economic/trade vehicle was set on fire in the hopes this would warm up the world economy and get it moving again. All the fixes by various governments, central banks and international G7 organizations has failed to fix the underlying problems.
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That is, the shifting of industrial production from Europe and the US to Asia is not only not stopping, it is accelerating. First, Asia kept the dollar inflated in value so business rivals in Asia could invade US markets as well as undersell US manufacturers in international markets. Then Europe foolishly decided to form a currency union and at first, very gradually, the giant export powers in Asia began to hoard euros as well as dollars. Indeed, the concept of using FOREX holdings to control international trade is a Japanese discovery which was swiftly copied by trade rivals in Asia but not in Europe or the US until it was too late.
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So we see the euro shooting up in value over the last 5 years and Europe is totally helpless to stop this. Even though all of Europe together has a fairly large FOREX total holdings, this is not connected with the euro, itself. Unlike the dollar, the euro is even more detached from nationalist forces. The collapse of the entire international G7 banking and trade systems is a sign that the status quo has ceased to function. Yet, everyone at the top have been immensely happy with this status quo which is why the G7 powers desperately want to return to this system.
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Looking at some of today’s news shows this FOREX business clearly:
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Central banks lead subtle shift away from dollar | Reuters
Barclays Capital research showed that central banks that report reserve breakdown put 63 percent of new cash coming into their coffers between April and July into non-U.S. currencies.
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“There’s an incipient desire to reduce the dollar share of reserves, and central banks will use any opportunity to do it, provided it doesn’t cause the dollar to fall out of bed,” said Steven Englander, chief U.S. currency strategist at Barclays.
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.International Monetary Fund data shows the dollar’s share of known world reserves has been declining since it stood at 72 percent in 1999, the year the euro was introduced. As of the second quarter of 2009, it accounted for 62.8 percent.
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The central banks and governments of all the trade rivals who pretty much destroyed US industrial power are keeping the dollar afloat only so they can continue doing this. Therefore, the US has to understand that we are not victorious when we see them artificially inflating the value of the dollar to keep unbalanced trade going.
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This is bad, not good. A strong dollar defeats the entire concept of the floating currency. Every story about relative value of all currencies have to have a brief proviso explaining that this system was set up by Nixon in 1971 in order to weaken the dollar against trade rivals and thus, balance trade. Obviously, since then, this concept has been a total failure.
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Such a complete collapse of a theoretical concept can’t be exceeded. This has to be one of the biggest chasms between ’science’ and ‘reality’. Or rather, reality is science and much of economics is not science at all but rather, wishful thinking. I will now make a prediction: Asia will continue to hoard euros as a means of holding capital gained via unbalanced trade. And Europe will be deindustrialized as swiftly as the US as the euro FOREX holdings in Asia reach a 50-50 split in holding dollars and euros. With one major exception: China will hoard yen, too.
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Japanese Investors Saying ‘No Thanks’ to Government Bonds — Seeking Alpha
However, as interest rates have been held at zero (remember ZIRP) to near-zero levels for years, Japanese individual investors may finally be voting with their purses. The October 5-year issue had a coupon of 0.6%, the lowest since the program began in ‘03, and less than half the peak coupon rate of 1.5% in July ‘07.
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The MoF now only expects to raise Y1.3 trillion (US$14.3B) this year from individual investors, down from a prior estimate of Y2.4 trillion, and considerably lower than the record Y7.2 trillion raised in ‘05. Through the end of this September, individual investors held Y27.7 trillion or 4.6% of JGBs outstanding.
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The Japanese bond holders accepted the ZIRP system during the depression years from 1994-2002. But from 2002 to last year, Japan had very real inflation but the ZIRP lending to manufacturing export dealers was kept in place. After this business, the Japanese began shipping their savings into new sectors including gold and other metals. This is why, even when all other markets collapsed, these markets hit new highs.
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Gold is firmly above the $1,000 an ounce and continuing strong despite hundreds of tons of gold suddenly pouring out of central banking vaults and being snapped up. This is significant because it shows that people are shifting away from the old status quo and entering a new one that is not going to be beneficial to the people who depend on the easy credit creation system of the past.
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Japan shows very, very clearly that the ZIRP system is extremely destructive. That is, it enables too much borrowing. Japan’s government merrily ran in the red until it rose to insanely high levels relative to GDP, more than double. The silent climb of debt is inevitable in a ZIRP system. It is literally unavoidable. Ditto, farming out debt. Japan’s debt used to be sold nearly exclusively to the Japanese people. The US debt has been mostly sold to foreign trade rivals.
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This is one reason why…and it is an immense reason…ZIRP lending is an evil not a boon. It is very interesting and quite frightful that both Japan and the US as well as Europe…the infamous G7 nations…are all running ZIRP systems today and yet, these are the very nations whose currencies are now being hoarded by the rising Asian powers of South Korea, China, India, etc. The ZIRP nations are being literally held hostage in a number of FOREX holdings by trade rivals.
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This MUST be addressed! It is one of the keys to understanding why the free trade/floating currency game is now ending unless we wish to continue it to total destruction.
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Zhou Says Pressure to Strengthen Yuan ‘Not That Big’ (Update2) – Bloomberg.com
“The pressure from the international community to allow yuan appreciation is not that big,” Zhou told Bloomberg News as he arrived in St. Andrews, Scotland for a meeting of officials from the Group of 20 nations.
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The comments come a day after European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet said a stronger yuan would help rebalance the global economy. UBS AG, the world’s second-largest foreign-exchange trader, said today it expects G-20 finance chiefs to use the weekend summit to urge Asian nations to allow their currencies to appreciate.
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One of the commonest fantasies of many commentators who want to explain China’s finances towards the G7 nations is…China is captive to the G7 nations. This is like a zebra caught in the jaws of a lion imagining the lion is burdened by this and thus, can’t eat the zebra. Even as the Chinese leadership clearly explain things, this fantasy has such powerful hold, it doesn’t penetrate. China has us in a trap, not the other way around. If the US goes bankrupt and the dollar suddenly collapses, China will not fall. The US will fall. And fall far and fall hard.
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Mainly, we will be unable to buy oil in international markets. And if our industries are in other countries, this will be confiscated and we will be unable to manufacture much of anything. We, not China, will be unable to buy much of anything. The Chinese already is globe trotting, outbidding the US in many sectors. This alarming development has not been fully appreciated by the US public and our political leaders.
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Here is a typical example how our business leaders treat us. That is, they exist to cut us out of the economic system all in the name of profits, not real growth:
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Buffett’s ‘Wake-Up Call’ May Signal More Cost Cuts (Update2) – Bloomberg.com
The CEOs of Berkshire’s operating companies oversee more than 200,000 workers selling Fruit of the Loom T-shirts, Geico car insurance and Dairy Queen ice cream, while Buffett vets investments with a staff of fewer than 20 at the firm’s Omaha, Nebraska headquarters. Berkshire said Nov. 3 it agreed to pay $26 billion to buy Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp., adding a railroad with about 40,000 employees….
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….Berkshire executives have eliminated jobs and closed plants as the sale of bricks, jewelry and luxury flights suffered in the recession. The company, which reports third-quarter results today, may need further reductions, even as the U.S. recovers, said Jeff Matthews, founder of the hedge fund Ram Partners LP.
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Mr. Buffett is held up as an example of a fine businessman. He makes money! But how? Well, he FIRES MASSES OF PEOPLE. He buys up businesses and then kicks the employees to the curb. Even if an economy improves, his personal profits still come from crushing workers, smashing thousands of people’s lives, destroying the economic welfare of countless humans….while he sails merrily along. He is despicable.
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Belatedly, Obama is launching a laughable protectionist program that is very weak. Of course, China bats this aside with contempt and irritation. As this escalates, it will either destroy the whole farce of free trade/floating currency business or it will cease with the US surrendering to all our trade rivals. Of course, the problem here is, singling out China while coddling the other nations that are doing the same things…this will backfire on us. This is why having a consistent theoretical basis for our economic system is vital.
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China to launch anti-dumping, anti-subsidy probe into U.S. autos_English_Xinhua
China’s Ministry of Commerce (MOC) said Friday it had launched anti-dumping, anti-subsidy investigations into U.S.-made off-road vehicles and sedans with engine displacements of 2.0 liters and above….
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….The M0C announcement came one day after the U.S. Commerce Department set preliminary anti-dumping duties on imports of Chinese-made oil pipes, which was the biggest U.S. trade action against China.
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As a result, a 36.53-percent tariff will be imposed on oil country tubular goods (OCTG) from 37 Chinese companies, while some other companies will be levied a preliminary dumping rate of 99.14percent.
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Step by step, we are going off this cliff but only with China. Obviously, China is being forced to act and the US is certain that Europe and Japan will want to keep the old status quo and thus, will encourage and assist in this business against China. But the danger here is, the US/EU/UK/Japanese ZIRP system will make this impossible. That is, all these nations can’t keep a ZIRP system going without the world’s biggest FOREX holder holding all this paper IOU money. Not to mention, buying the G7 government debts.
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Fury on the streets as axe hovers over German workers – Europe, World – The Independent
Thousands of Opel workers staged lightning strikes and angry protests across Germany yesterday after the sudden refusal by the car giant’s American parent company, General Motors, to sell off its European operations.
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The American decision took Germany completely by surprise. Chancellor Angela Merkel had assumed she had saved Opel through a €4.5bn (£4bn) deal guaranteeing 25,000 German car industry jobs with the sale of GM European plants to the Canadian car parts maker, Magna. But GM announced on Tuesday, wholly unexpectedly, that it had decided to keep and restructure its European operations, which involve 50,000 jobs including those at Opel in Germany and Vauxhall in Britain. GM has said it plans to axe some 10,000 jobs in Europe and many German Opel jobs could be affected.
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Dear Germany: welcome to the US free trade system. You will now be deindustrialized. And the US will assist in this destruction. That is, why should Germans have jobs if the US isn’t going to have jobs? The US has no obligation to give Germans jobs, after all, we don’t give ourselves jobs! The present status quo system happens to be be very destructive and it enables and encourages super rich men like Buffett to decimate jobs and treat humans as chattel or disposable trash.
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Unlike the US, the Germans and others are very, very aware of what happens next: violent revolutions, wars and coups. The US is blissfully unaware of this particular abyss that is right at our own feet. The US wealthy think that they can do as they please and nothing will happen. Perhaps they are fooled by the divisions within our own culture with American workers hating each other over frivolous or even stupid things.
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They have experts track the internet to see what is going on. They can see that the divisions are getting worse and worse, not the opposite. Until the US public clears away the cobwebs, we will see things continue to devolve against us while the wealth which is increasingly concentrated in the upper 1% will simply continue to accumulate. The hope that tax cuts for the common people will balance things is foolish, tax cuts will make things worse and worse.
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Some people now imagine that if we decapitated most government programs and systems, everything will be fixed. This is a delusion. The Chinese are not decapitating their systems and eliminating services, they are expanding and extending services, bit by bit as the country industrializes and modernizes. The US has to imitate trade rivals, not imitate failed states. A failed state is one that has no real healthcare system (like Japan forcing hospitals to reuse needles!) or has growing debt and trade deficits. A failed state is one that can’t protect its own borders from illegal crossings, or protect itself from outside attackers.
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A failed state allows overt government corruption. It allows foreign entities to bribe politicians or dictate foreign policy like Israel does or a host of other nations do. We need more sovereignty, not less. We need a stronger government, not one owned by foreign powers or foreign traders, or foreign manufacturers (who own factories here) etc.
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We have to break out of our personal prisons to see where we have common cause. That is, we have to focus on the important things. If we arrest the Bushes and put them on trial, this won’t fix a thing if we continue with the free trade/funny money system we are stuck with today. It should now be crystal clear that both political parties are in trouble in the exact same sector: in trade and finance. Both run our government deep in the red and both allow trade deficits to flourish.
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Both parties are running our nations as if we are a global empire while refusing to pay the price for this. Both parties cheerfully send our military all over the earth to die while stuffing their own pockets. The mass murder of our soldiers at Ft. Drumm in Texas is a classic example: our soldiers are going insane, committing crimes or suicide, in despair. And this makes not the slightest difference to our political leaders or major media.
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Instead, as the death rate in Afghanistan and Iraq is rising again and the generals are demanding more human sacrifices and Congress is debating yet another extra money bill to pay for these wars…after Obama and the Democrats swore, they would no longer have special funding for wars…they are doing exactly like the Republicans.
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So what is wrong is very wrong on several levels and this means, we have to have some very fundamental changes. Psychological, theoretical, economical and social changes have to happen yet we are very unprepared for any of this. Admitting we are on the wrong track is the first step in recovery. Asserting our democratic powers is the next step. This means, abandoning the main political parties.
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54 Comments
November 7, 2009 at 7:06 am
“A failed state is one that can’t protect its own borders from illegal crossings, or protect itself from outside attackers.”
The problem isn’t that they aren’t enforcing immigration laws or that they allow outside powers to create our gov’t policies.
The problem is that we have an internal “traitor-class” who think nothing of exploiting our gov’t for their own purposes. Ordinary Americans instead of organizing or fighting to stop this, instead they are suckered into hating darkies, commies, homos, lieberals, etc.
Big business wants a vulnerable and cheap labor force to force wages down. Undocumented immigrants have few rights and are cowed into accepting dangerous and dead-end jobs for minimum wage or barely above it. Instead of Americans demanding that they be Protected by employment laws they just avert their gaze to the blatant exploitation of these people.
What goes around comes around. We cannot ignore expoitation of low-skilled/low wage workers and expect that we be treated differently.
I doubt that we will have any pressure to end free-trade because most americans seem content to blame poor people and foreign devils instead of our own “elite”
This is internal rot not external. People seem to prefer superstition and conspiracies to any kind of scientific or analytical explanations of what is wrong with the US. Most Americans would rather blame evil Mexicans, Evil jews, Evil chinese, or evil whatever than our “leadership” and their policies.
The whole vaccine hysteria seems to be a good example of this “superstition.”
Before i thought elaine was been a little shrill with “everyone is dying from the horrible swine flu” but i now realize that she was just trying to “smack” some sense into the “vaccines are death” crowd.
November 7, 2009 at 10:24 am
[...] posted here: FOREX Follies « Culture of Life News « FOREX – The Software For Internet Trading | Strategic Internet … Professional [...]
November 7, 2009 at 12:18 pm
For those people crying about the horrible resident evil vaccines guess who got the swine flu vaccine in new york despite the shortage.
“New York City health officials scrambled to explain themselves Thursday following outraged media reports about bankers who got scarce H1N1 flu vaccines through their employers”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/33655723
Day laborers and Americans having to compete with them for those jobs.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/nov/02/new-faces-day-labor/
November 7, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Reading me very closely (not to look for slight flaws but to try to understand my basic arguments) is important. I was careful to note that the political leaders of our empire are corrupt and our international bankers are not interested in protecting our borders, etc.
This is NOT blaming Mexicans, for example. Or any illegals who take advantage of our leaders not protecting us. These people are doing what comes naturally to anyone seeking wealth: they move about and do whatever they can.
But our leaders have an obligation to protect our best interests, not protect only the rich.
November 7, 2009 at 1:35 pm
“If we arrest the Bushes and put them on trial, this won’t fix a thing if we continue with the free trade/funny money system we are stuck with today.”
wrong wrong wrong and fucking wrong!!!!
Its ENTIRELY because you dont arrest the wrong doers whether it be bush, cheney, paulson whoever……that they keep getting away with the same shit time and time again……..start making arrests and eventually one of them will roll over on there mates and bring the rest down (unless they have a heart attack or fall under a bus beforehand)
fucking bleating about democrats being the same as republicans and abandoning the main parties is just horseshit, the game is rigged….if a third party comes into the mix they get bent over, denigrated and ridiculed until their message can no longer be heard…..much the same way you do to poeple who disagree with your line of thinking!!!
Look at the slag job you did on Elliot Spitzer you were only to happy to throw him to the wolves for getting his dick wet, completely ignorant of the work he was doing to reign in the very gnomes you whinge about…..
it makes me SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 7, 2009 at 1:54 pm
That’s nice info. Thanks for share.
November 7, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Great article, the only way to the US save itself it is by rising trade barriers…but if they don´t when US hits 50% of unemployment an dictator will rise in US and make war with those evil chinese !
November 7, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Exactly right Greg. Spitzer was all over AIG and brought down for it. Happens all the time and is the main advantage of the power elite, or gnomes, as Elaine calls them. They don’t fear the puny laws that apply to the masses because they have put themselves above the laws that they control. Politicians seldom if ever bite the (financial) hand that feeds them…how can they? Always one election cycle (money) or scandal (media promoted or alternately ignored) from the exit. Anyone with a firing neuron HAD to wonder what Spitzer was up to for being outed for visiting a PROSTITUTE! Horrors to think that would happen in NY or even GASP DC!
And of course the sanctimonious like Elaine are all over it…like clockwork. Evil man. The gnomes must laugh like hell at the stupidity of the commoners and analysts alike who turn against the few or only ones with the courage to take them on. Most societies wouldn’t have given that media coverage because they are adults.
It is from this perspective that one would question Elaines ability to parse actual data and conclusively determine that vaccines were safe or effective. Her shrill responses to alternative viewpoints and tendency to label anyone who disagrees with her as a “birther/truther” anti vaccine people as child haters, morons, etc betrays the depths of her insecurity and fear…and the gnomes LOVE fear as the most powerful tool of control. The fear of the financial market COLLAPSE last year opened peoples pocketbooks WIDE via taxation and the few who fought for the simple-minded masses were brought to heel.
The latest tactic here to try and browbeat posters with alternative views to leave is a joke. What kind of weak minded individual would turn tail and leave when Elaine barks at them. Who cares? If you put up a blog proporting to welcome debate and then insult and belittle those who have honestly held alternative views rather than engage based on ones ability to debate and reason, it’s your own fault. Frankly, the fact anyone other than Elaines minions remain reflects more the overall poor quality of the internet as a forum of true ideas and exchanges than her profound insights. I have always given her respect for some of your financial pieces and insights into the asian cultures and motivations but she completely fall apart in other areas like vaccines.
Elaine, I could care less if you ban me or others…its no real loss. But I would never walk away voluntarily because YOU can’t make a decent refutation on a topic so important to you for whatever true reason. I WILL leave voluntarily when you drive the last of the rational posters from your blog.
November 7, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Destructive forces have to be balanced by constructive forces…
Here is a interesting piece … pocket size man made black hole…
_ —————————————–”
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2009-10/black-hole-fits-your-pocket
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24234/
Just because most black holes are solar-system-sized maelstroms with reality-warping gravitational pulls doesn’t mean you can’t have one in your pocket! That’s right, just in time for the holidays comes the pocket black hole. Designed by scientists at the Southeast University in Nanjing, China, this eight-and-a-half-inch-wide disk absorbs all the electromagnetic radiation you throw at it, with none of the pesky time dilation and Hawking radiation associated with the larger, interstellar versions.
Unlike a regular black hole, which traps light using the gravitational pull of the dead star at its core, this simple metal disc uses the geometry of 60 concentric rings of metamaterials to lock up light for good. The metamaterial “resonators” that make up the rings affect the magnetic properties of passing light, bending the beams into the center of the disc, and trapping them in the etched maze-like grooves.
But wait, there’s more! These discs don’t destroy the energy of the trapped light, and emit heat when trapping ambient radiation. That means these metamaterial black holes could serve as the basis for solar panels that capture every wavelength of the electromagnetic spectrum. And do so near-perfectly, to boot.
Call now! Operators are standing by.*
*NOTE: No operators are actually standing by.
November 7, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Regarding the FOREX piece, how is it that the Chinese, who control what, 2 TRILLION of treasury notes would such international leverage? They are threatened that the US is monetizing its debt, correct? So who holds the real power in that relationship? What is 2 trillion today? So what if the chinese or others quit buying? So what if the fed/us treasury send a plane load of federal reserve note paper to china and bring home the treasury note paper? who cares? its all paper. Who are the chinese going to trade with for the us paper? other countries differently colored paper? Its all paper elaine. Even at face value, 2 trillion is less than 15% of this countries GDP no crushing debt. The US is a money machine. China has no real lever.
Now if the us owed 2 trillion in actual GOLD or other value, it would be game over.
everything else is for mass consumption. over time, i have seen the latest and greatest next “threat” to the us…japan, taiwan, russia, india now China. none of them are real threats in the long run, but useful tools to keep those unable to discern the truth fearful
November 7, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Back on topic Elaine, and an actual PREDICTION. Makes sense to me, good stuff.
But how does this work?
As you point out, the theoretical devaluation of currencies due to trade defecits has not happened over a very long period for the USA.
I understand that central bank holdings in exporting nations may distort the process, but how long can any entity produce in exchange for paper that in the final analysis can not be spent?
November 7, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Elaine: you should read my comment more carefully. I wasn’t stating that you were blaming mexicans or immigrants.
Previously i brought up the point that “illegal aliens” was a phrase with a profoundly negative connotation and that you did not seem to have been aware of that.
My point in this comment is that most americans would rather engage in “blame someone weaker” and not lets blame those responsible for those policies. I was talking about scrapgoating and how ordinary americans are too easily seduced into “hate” and “ignorance” instead of demanding an end to criminality (wanting a better life is not a crime but providing employment despite knowing that the employee doesn’t have any documentation is).
Ordinary americans could help remove the incentives to cross the border illegally by demanding real consequences for the blantant disregard that our companies have for our employment laws. If our companies weren’t so willing to employ the undocumented the primary incentive for illegally crossing the border would be removed.
Most people fail to realize that ordinary americans are not innocent babes. Most of us love cheap crap and lording it over more vulnerable populations.
Bullying is popular/seductive because it makes you feel powerful and important. Most americans want to bully the undocumented and poor because they are marginalized and humiliated by the elite for being “stupid.”
Challenging corporations for their blatant hiring of people without documentation is a frightening and dangerous thing and most americans would rather howl at immigrants.
The point i was trying to get across was that you were giving “us” a pass by not laying any blame on ordinary americans for our passive acceptance of the exploitation of vulnerable workers and the violation of our employment laws by companies.
Very few americans demand that we punish corporations/companies for violating our work laws. Instead we whine about the undocumented taking advantage of poor america.
You stated:
“This is not blaming Mexicans, for example. Or any illegals WHO TAKE ADVANTAGE of our LEADERS NOT PROTECTING US.”
The exploitation is the other way around elaine. We take advantage of the cheap goods that their labor produces. They are a vulnerable labor pool that is terrorized with the threat of deporation if they demand better working condition or high wages. They are left without many legal protection because we americans don’t really care about their welfare. We want cheap crap and are way too willing to delude ourselves into thinking its a miracle of technology that allows such a fall in prices and not exploitation of vulnerable/powerless labor.
We bare a responsibility to protect ourselves and whining about our leaders not protecting us is not going to change anything.
Can’t blame china for merchantilism or wishing to industrialize at our expense. Its our fault for allowing it and the blame should be place on ourselves and not just on the elite or illegals/chinese.
We fcked over stupid countries whose leadership soldout their own population in exchange for our bribes. This process has been reverse due to the hubris of our leadership and a huge portion of our population. You’ll be amazed at how many americans think the chinese are stupid and incapable of matching us technologically.
Monkey see Monkey do, whatever we achieve anyone else in the world can as well.
I was just adding my thoughts, i wasn’t damning your post. I felt the need to bring up the need for a greater sense of morality; we as americans have a weird sense of entitlement and hubris. We don’t seem to mind our predatory behavior against feudal societies but get angry that we have to deal with the blowback of our exploitation of these countries.
Seems too many americans whine that we have to deal with economic refugees; I have never understood why people are so suprised that we would see such an exudus from mexico. We destroyed the livelyhood of millions of mexican subsistence farmers without agricultural dumping but we complain that they are taking advantage of our lack of immigration enforcement.
We have a landborder with Mexico not sure why so many people are suprised that they would cross an imaginary line in the dirt.
November 7, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Morality demands that we look at our own behavior and how our actions or more importantly INACTION allows such expoitation to continue.
Rarely have i heard any demand for boycotts against corporations who violate our employment laws. Rarely have i heard any demand that illegals be treated equally. Rarely have i heard any demand that we not scrapegoat, dehumanize, or demonize immigrants or foreigners.
We have to understand that we must not allow our internal bigotry/prejudice to rule our view of foreign countries or their nationals.
It is not china’s or anyone else’s fault that we are bankrupting ourselves. Corruption, criminality, hatred are not something that we import these are homegrown phenomenon.
November 7, 2009 at 5:57 pm
I didn’t mean to offended you elaine, my comments are just my thoughts and you are under no obligation to read them.
I’m not a diplomat and my focus on the “flaws” are just my way of showing displeasure for certain offensive phrases or moral oversight (morality can be subjective and i’m aware that we are all biased).
We all make mistakes but in this instance i’m a little baffled at your annoyance.
That last part of your comment, “But our leaders have an obligation to protect our best interests, not protect only the rich” really confused me. I had no idea that i was lobbying for the protection of the rich.
Before you dodged the fact that illegal alien has an implicitly negative connotation that dehumanized and criminalizes a vulnerable population. I was just making you aware of how insulting and degrading that phrase is to me and every other illegal/latino that has to deal with it.
Basically my purpose isn’t to insult you but to try and point out any insulting language or to add my personal thoughts to the “discussion.”
I’m aware that i can give offense for a perceived criticism of you without me actually desiring to offend. Its difficult to get people to view your own viewpoint without them becoming defensive or dismissing your viewpoint as just simple nit-picking.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: The term ‘illegal alien’ has to be negative connotation because they are breaking the law! Just as we have names for other law breakers, this has to be the designated name of people who sneak into a country instead of following rules. Of course, we could go back to the Dark Ages style of border controls: let anyone invade and do as they please.
But I would suggest this isn’t a smart idea.
November 7, 2009 at 6:32 pm
“Psychological, theoretical, economical and social changes have to happen yet we are very unprepared for any of this”
You once chided me when I suggested that there needs to be a collective action to stop paying debts.
Elaine, you state there needs to be a fundalmental change – I think it needs to be a radical mass movement change, and unless that happens we will continue to allow our elected officials to methodically dig our nationalistic grave.
John wonders how long that could take – well, as long as the new power centers of wealth allow the trade of debt for imported products and oil to continue. That will abruptly change when it suits their self-interest.
I hope Jim Dandy beliefs in the power of the US fiscal audacity doesn’t leave him out in the cold some day in the not-too-distant-future.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE; We part ways when you suggest the solution is for everyone to not honor their debts. I am a saver, not a debtor. Guess what? The desire of debtors to skip out harms those people who save in many ways.
No, responsible lending coupled with responsible payment of bills is what keeps a society afloat. If we have an anti-debt riot this will destroy our nation and end our prosperity. Of course, during the credit boom years, no one listened to my warnings about granting too much credit.
November 7, 2009 at 6:44 pm
A few weeks ago, a representative had the temerity to yell out “You Lie” at the current president as he was telling the house of representatives that “undocumented, n0n- citizens” would not be covered by the health care reform acts currently wending their path through congress.
It appears that indeed the president did lie.
Undocumented non citizens will be encouraged to use the health exchange system being developed. No citizenship proof will be necessary for anyone.
Invite the world
Invade the world
In Debt to the world.
Ya just gotta love it.
November 7, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Sorry, about confusing the strident Jim Dandy with John.
Domingo – You are pounding your oratorical fist on the keyboards for an imagined bias of Elaine’s as far as I can comprehend.
November 7, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Joseppi
Curious what is the imagined bias as far as you can comprehend?
November 8, 2009 at 5:22 am
if the dollar becomes weaker…. gold becomes stronger… prices stagnate…. and everything seems the same
.
that is the force of a large pool of cheap dumping in the labor market
.
we could dump cheap labor in the sales/finance department…. but then there would be no reason for bonuses and pools of assets would be harder to speculate on ’sudden moves’
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the strategic position of the word ‘no’ is amazing
.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-53565441845289277&q=nuclear+fision&total=185&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
.
no, THAT man is a genious
November 8, 2009 at 5:53 am
domingo
November 7, 2009 at 7:06 am
.
The problem is that we have an internal “traitor-class” who think nothing of exploiting our gov’t for their own purposes. Ordinary Americans instead of organizing or fighting to stop this, instead they are suckered into hating darkies, commies, homos, lieberals, etc.
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i dreamed i kissed a black girl last night…. her friend was in the car it was sweet
.
commies liberals and homos are full of promice and thats about all… if the conservatives are so bad prove that love is real
November 8, 2009 at 12:01 pm
The endgame is that when China’s customers’ currencies evaporate China will be left with massive infrastructure and nobody to sell to. They have no internal market of their own and that won’t happen any time soon.
So far the imbalances they have intentionally created have served them, but the result is a market distortion that will decimate them when their customers vanish.
November 8, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I hope you get to visit China someday and see for yourself their massive internal markets. China needed export markets to reindustrialize. And guess what? The US deindustrialized itself to the same degree. This is thanks to free trade. Our market will evaporate due to everyone being without a job and no ability to import our consumer goods.
November 8, 2009 at 2:56 pm
I was in China 10 days ago
November 8, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Actually the worrying thing about China’s customers going broke is what China will do about the drying up of demand.
What better way to stop all that excess capacity from rotting away than to use it as a war machine?
November 8, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Nice tips. Thanks for share.
November 8, 2009 at 6:39 pm
It’s hard to keep current with the torrent of essays Elaine churns out.
Domingo, and it is Sunday, and this started yesterday, but if you read this – There is a validity in using the words “illegal alien”. This a real, everyday life status that has completely changed America, and changed the lives of those who fit the description and their offspring.
The status of illegality rose out of the symbiotic needs of corporate/government interests, a population that thought they were beyond doing physical labor – and a class of people willing to migrate to fulfill their dreams.
Sure there were/are abuses of power in the dynamics, but I think that if the roles of who held the power were reversed there would be at least same amount of abuse of power.
Stating this in no way a rational justification for abuse, it’s merely illustrating the fact the abuse of power is an equal opportunity perversion.
We can agree that the evolving result is beneficial for most everyone involved to some degree.
Like all special issue politics these days there seems to be a reactionary and emotionally incendiary shouting going on.
I personally think you were headed in that direction by your deconstructing of Elaine’s words.
My bias of thinking that the issue of illegal immigration is reactionary and emotional, makes me think that your sensitivities towards this issue are biased based.
November 8, 2009 at 6:56 pm
“responsible lending coupled with responsible payment of bills is what keeps a society afloat.”
Elaine,
What happens when there is an orgy of irresponsible lending that creates a level of debt that never can be repaid?
Should the corrupt system of who controls the credit/debt system, whereby, the loss is placed on the weak and the gluttonous gains shared by the few be maintained?
Since the present day basis for this fraudulent and thoroughly corrupt financial system is the issuance of debt by the self-appointed chosen few – should then the perpetrators of this unjust system be spared because of some classical ideal, as when you say, “The desire of debtors to skip out harms those people who save”?
Personally, I think that any allegiance to this putrid financial system because of ideals that only dwell in the past is an obstacle in the path to the future realization of justice and equality.
November 8, 2009 at 10:44 pm
“ELAINE: The term ‘illegal alien’ has to be negative connotation because they are breaking the law!”
When i said negative connotation i was employing a euphemism. Elaine it has a racist connotation. The two terms are heavily politicized and have been appropriated by the hard-right/white supremacist to dehumanize and justify hatred and violence against latinos. You are deluding yourself if you think that your desire to use this term does not say something about your belief about latinos in general.
Laws are not always “just” or beyond reproach. Its not a crime to want a better life and crossing an invisible line is not equivalent to theft, embezzlement, rape, or murder. You imply with that word illegal alien that they are nonhuman and criminals on par with thieves, rapist, traitors, and murderers.
“Elaine: Just as we have names for other law breakers, THIS HAS TO BE THE DESIGNATED NAME of people who sneak into a country instead of following rules.”
Astonishing that you are lobbying for the right to use an insulting and racialized term. wah wah wah i’m white and i want to use illegal alien because i want the word to be insulting to illegals and the entire latino community so that i can more easily scrapegoat them for our failure to enforce our employment and immigration laws. Undocument immigrant, unauthorized alien, undocument workers, undocument aliens, are all acceptable terms that are not dehumanizing so why do you find them so “inadequate?”
White supremacy and white privilege leads white people to demand the right to continue using racialized and dehumanizing terminology. Oh But its tradition, Oh it feels good to use that word, Oh i don’t give a shit what those minorities think, Oh i don’t care that it dehumanizes them.
Ask yourself one basic question why do you find it so infuriating being asked not to use an insulting and racist term?
Being asked not to use a dehumanizing term in not equivalent to asking you to accept an open border. Stopping illegal immigration is not something i find offensive or that i disagree with but the terminology i find offensive and disagreeable.
You are passing a judgement that they are Criminals and subhuman. It is unjust and tyrannical for you to hold an entire community collectively guilty for the “crime” of wanting a better life and not letting an invisible line stop them.
So you think that all “illegals” are inhuman lawbreakers who are out to destroy america? You are blaming these “inhuman lawbreakers” for OUR FAILURE TO ENFORCE OUR IMMIGRATION AND EMPLOYMENT LAWS. Its not their responsibility to enforce our immigration or employment laws; It is our responsibility as americans to enforce these laws.
“Elaine: Of course, WE COULD GO BACK TO THE DARK AGES style of border controls: LET ANYONE INVADE and DO AS THEY PLEASE.”
So they are barbarian invaders that are going to bring another dark age where savagery, criminality, and inhumanity will reign for a thousand years?
No submerged white supremacist message there, oh noooo there is not implied judgment that they are uncivilized savages bent on merciless destruction of the precious civilized american (i.e. white) civilization.
“Elaine: But I would suggest this isn’t a smart idea”
Astounding that you assume that because i find “illegal alien” insulting and racist that i support illegal immigration and non-enforcement of our employment laws. That is your attempt to discredit me and justify using a racist term. Elaine not everything is black/white or innocent.
You have basically demanded that either i stfu about your desire to use a dehumanizing and insulting term or that i support lawbreaking and the eventual destruction of our civilization.
Pahleez, like i have never encountered this bullshit from white people before.
I don’t support legal or illegal immigration (i don’t support legal immigration because it is predatory and fcks poor countries by stealing their educated population after they invested so much educating them). I want enforcement of our employment and immigration laws but i’m not going to attend any of your rallies because i know that only a certain type of American is wanted.
Using “illegal alien” and other racist terminology alienates and offends minorities.
Have you ever wondered why all the anti-immigation rallies are overwhelmingly white? Have you ever wondered why the birther/teabagger rallies are overwhelmingly white?
Black people, Latinos, and other people of color are not stupid we can easily spot camouflaged racism when we see it. We know that we are not welcome in your precious fetishized America.
November 9, 2009 at 4:13 pm
People who believe in the free trade of goods and services usually don’t have a lot of problems with the free movement of human being either.
Folks who have issues with freedom have issues with immigration.
November 9, 2009 at 4:48 pm
domingo,
your rant about “illegal alien” being racist terminology is unfounded. look up the meaning of both words…
Illegal, or unlawful, is used to describe something that is prohibited or not authorized by law.
In law, an alien is a person in a country who is not a citizen of that country.
So an illegal alien is “a person in a country, unlawfully, who is not a citizen of that country”.
November 9, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Surfboy:
As i said its easy to spot a white person by their use of the dictionary defense. You have just employed the dictionary defense, which is the typical “white” reponse to charges of racism.
The two words isolated are not racist but combined they produce the necessary connotation. separately they are simply synonyms for criminal and foreigner but combined there is a racial connotation.
The context is important, simply using illegal alien does not make you racist or guilty of racism.
You can write something like this without it being offensive:
“Anyone who has lived in the southwestern part of the U.S. for any length of time over the past few decades will surely appreciate how grave the situation has become for some Americans when considering that the ranks of day laborers standing on street corners in the morning are no longer restricted to recent immigrants and illegal aliens. It should be clear to even the most casual observer that the biggest busts have occurred in parts of the country where the biggest booms once flourished.”
http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2009/11/selling-apples-in-great-depression.html
The blog used it to simply descibe undocument immigrants. There was no judgement of them being criminals, lawbreakers, or invaders out to destroy america.
Its possible to use illegal alien without offending latinos.
The difference is whether or not you use it to simply describe a group or if you are using it to create a negative impression of that group.
Elaine considers them invaders and barbarians that are culturally destroying america. This i infer from the context of her “it has to be the term because it must contain a negative connotation.” She actually stated that so she was not just using the term to describe undocument immigrants. She wanted it to dehumanize and criminalize them for simply doing what is necessary to survive. Crossing a border and gain employment does not make someone a ruthless criminal bent on destruction.
When a person is confonted with using a word to insult a group most people that didn’t mean to offend will switch to a non-offensive word or will remove the portion of the post that creates that context. Elaine just dodged and employed the standard dictionary defense that white people are so fond of.
You have also just know whipped out the standard it has no meaning other than that what the dictionary says bs.
November 10, 2009 at 7:08 am
I agree with the comment that arresting Bush et. al would accomplish something. Also that attacking Spitzer for hiring a prostitute was absurd. The credibility of the law is important. When a president invades Iraq on false pretenses, and gets away with it, but a guy who criticizes the banking establishment is arrested for hiring a prostitute, the corruption of the system becomes too obvious for most of us.
Also Elaine, the last line of your article seems a bit naive to me. “This means, abandoning the main political parties.”
The beauty of democracy is that it keeps leaders from getting too used to power by changing them occasionally. The drawback is that people imagine they can make real political changes just by getting someone else elected.
If you want change, pressure the government to do it, whoever the government is. Don’t imagine you might get a saint elected in future.
I liked your article otherwise.
November 10, 2009 at 5:05 pm
We who oppose illegal immigration are routinely slandered as racists and xenophobes. But our opposition is principled and reason-based.
“dictionary defense” used by “white people”.
Sounds like you yourself are a racist.
BTW, an illegal alien (or your PC definition “undocumented immigrant”) is NOT identified by their color, it’s by their being in our country illegally.
There are hundreds of millions of poor people in Africa, South America, India, China and the rest of Asia. Over 3.5 Billion People live on less than a dollar a day. Should we let them all in?
Currently estimates: 24 million illegal aliens in the United States. Over 7% of our entire US population.
I myself, being in management, have personally hired and have excellent working relationships with Legal Immigrants from Vietnam, China, India, Mexico, Jordan, Ethiopia, Russia, Slovakia, Israel, Saudi Arabia and probably more.
They all are in the country legally and in the green card/citizenship process in various stages. I welcome legal immigration.
November 11, 2009 at 5:02 am
The CNY/USD trade has always been of great interest to me. You can find lots of forex resources on my blog.
November 11, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Surfboy:
“We who oppose illegal immigration are routinely slandered as racists and xenophobes. But our opposition is principled and reason-based.”
principled and reason-based my ass. You are called a racist because you assume anyone that disagrees with your propaganda is pro-immigration. I do not support immigration period but i’m not about to allow you to spread your “hate” without a rebuttal. So many anti immigration rallies are nothing more than racism and xenophobia; we minorities are not stupid we can spot racism easily. Those anti-immigration rallies tend to be nothing more than disguised racism. That is why any anti-immigration rally is overwhelmingly white.
““dictionary defense” used by “white people”.
Sounds like you yourself are a racist.”
Care to explain how that is racist? That is another pathetic white response to allegations of racism. Dumbass response: you are the racist for bringing it up…pahleeze.
Another retarded white response “PC.” wah wah wah i want to use racist, sexist, homophobic terminology but those bastard minorities call me out on my bigotry.
Another retarded white response, “there are 3.5 billion poor people should we let them all in? Pathetic and competely unrelated to the discussion. Again you are assuming that i support illegal immigration because i’m calling out your retard language.
Another stupid white response: but i have a black friend!
“I myself, being in management, have personally hired and have excellent working relationships with Legal Immigrants from Vietnam, China, India, Mexico, Jordan, Ethiopia, Russia, Slovakia, Israel, Saudi Arabia and probably more”
That is so fcking stupid its pathetic. See i work with legal “illegals” and they don’t call me racist so that means i’m not a racist. pahleeze, none of those immigrants say anything to you because they don’t want to be fired. That is equivalent to a sexist boss saying, “bitches know i’m not sexist because i’m the boss and my female employees love my jokes and harrassment”
November 11, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Surfboy:
The reason you have no minority friend is because of your retarded belief that you should be allowed be use ni^^er, wetb#$k, CH%nk, f@g, etc.
“WE WHO OPPOSE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION are routinely slandered as racists and xenophobes.”
That little exclusive “WE WHO OPPOSE” is a charge that anyone who confronts your bigoted language must be a illegal lover.
You have complained that you cannot use bigoted languange because WE WHO OPPOSE are labled racist. Pfft, wonder why anyone would consider you or those who lobby for the right to use racial epitaphs and other bigoted language as racist?
Your attitude betrays your barely concealed desire to go back to the good ole days when whites could use racist language without any consequences.
November 11, 2009 at 3:04 pm
How to tell if you are a racist:
You have won or are winning an argument with a liberal.
November 11, 2009 at 4:39 pm
CK how to tell you are an idiot.
You trivialize racism as losing an argument.
Racism = Discrimination + Power
I didn’t accuse surfboy of anything until he started he retarded I have tons of minority co-workers, you’re the racist for bringing up how the dictionary defense is a typical white derailment tactic, You support Illegals for finding politically incorrect terms offensive, etc
Declaring yourself a winner in an argument is always suspect.
Poor CK is an angry concern-a-tive” who hates those evil lie-berals with their pc dictatorship…
November 11, 2009 at 11:56 pm
domingo…dude!
You have serious anger issues and are losing control. You don’t know anything about me and yet you say I don’t have any minority friend, and accuse me of being a racist and other SLANDER.
An illegal alien is NOT identified by their color, it’s by their being in our country illegally. They are breaking the law.
I have personally hired AND have excellent working relationships (meaning I WORK WITH not they work for me) with Legal Immigrants. I support legal immigration.
I like people and generally have a golden rule attitude.
take a breath man.
November 12, 2009 at 2:06 am
Surfboy:
The classic angry minority derailment tactic, how shocking.
“You have serious anger issues and are losing control.”
amusing, poor baby is feeling threatened.
“You don’t know anything about me and yet you say I don’t have any minority friend, and accuse me of being a racist and other SLANDER.”
Do you have any minority friends? We both know that you don’t have any that’s why you brought up “i work with minorities” to prove you were soo cosmopolitan. What other slander have i accused you of? I accused you of using common white derailment tactics not necessarily of you being a skin head racist. That is your baby not mine.
I accused you of the the standard white derailment tactics of:
1. Dictionary defense
2. I have a black/minority friend
3. PC police (whining about pc is the same as lobbying for the right to use bigoted language without consequence).
4. using the exclusive WE WHO OPPOSE and implying that anyone who confronts your usage of a nonPC word as an “illegal” lover (i.e. that i support illegal immigration)
“An illegal alien is NOT identified by their color, it’s by their being in our country illegally. They are breaking the law.”
I call bullshit, This is your standard deflect and derail tactic. You bring up color like i care, my only concern was with how the term is used to dehumanize and criminalize economic refugees. I don’t care what color “illegals” are they are human beings that are not guilty of anything but crossing an invisible line so that they wont starve. I don’t care if they are haitian, jamaican, s. american, chinese, african, european, muslim or anyother nationality or ethnicity. They are not criminals or inhuman; they are people being exploited by our corporations to maximize profits. The criminals are those who employ/exploit them and those who seek to demonize another group of humanity instead of blaming those responsible.
“I have personally hired AND have excellent working relationships (meaning I WORK WITH not they work for me) with Legal Immigrants. I support legal immigration”
This has nothing to do with the discussion on hand. This is nothing but a pathetic form of i work with minorities so i cannot possibly be a bigot. That last part about supporting legal immigration is equally pathetic; That has nothing to do with your desire to employ a word with a deeply insulting connotation.
“I like people and generally have a golden rule attitude”
Again wtf does that have to do with the discussion? Who doesn’t like people? the vast majority of people follow the golden rule so you are not unique or special.
Seems to me someone has a guilty conscience. I never accused you of being a racist, the only thing i accused you was of you bsing about the negative connotation of the word.
You brought up the charge of racist. You stated that you and other anti-illegal alien memebers are labeled racist for no reason except your priciple stand against the illegals. I stated that you are being called a racist because of your attitude and the simple fact that your little group is overwhelmingly white. An overwhelmingly white group calling people crimininals lawbreakers, illegals, and demanding “justice” does not strike any observer as being based on principle. If your opposition was principled you would be demanding an end to their exploitation and the punishment of those who exploit them. You would not be demonizing them or blaming them for our economic or social problems.
Your attitude and desire to use nonPC language (i.e. insulting, belittling, dehumanizing, bigoted, sexist, etc) is why your little rallies and parties are always so white.
Bullshit all you want, we both know you don’t have any minority friends. Why else do you bringup your wonderful working relationship with your minority coworkers? could it possibly because you don’t have anyother relationship with them?
November 12, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Actually I am not feeling threatened but I am a little amused by your diatribe.
You know what’s funny dude. You sound like Maxwell Smart…”The old lighter in the gun in the rabbit trick!”
Where do you come up with these? “The classic angry minority derailment tactic”,”The dictionary defense”,”standard deflect and derail tactic”.
You brought up the racist issue with your statement of “Using “illegal alien” and other racist terminology alienates and offends minorities.”
I countered that it is correct terminology.
Laws are written with words that defined in a dictionary.
You said “I do not support immigration period but i’m not about to allow you to spread your “hate” without a rebuttal.” Exactly what is “your hate”? And what ARE you for?
You said “As i said its easy to spot a white person by their use of the dictionary defense. You have just employed the dictionary defense, which is the typical “white” reponse to charges of racism.”
I was clearly just giving a definition to the words “illegal alien” and not “responding to charges of racism”. Get your facts straight.
Your multiple use of “Another retarded white response” sounds like someone has issues with “white” people…
You said “my only concern was with how the term is used to dehumanize and criminalize economic refugees.” Dehumanize…no, criminalize…well duh! they are breaking the law just like the people that exploit them. They are all criminals because THEY KNOW THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW and they do it anyway. There are many people waiting their turn to immigrate and become a US citizen. I support them 100% and believe that these immigrants are at the core of what it is to be an American and the illegal immigrants are cheating them.
You said “Bullshit all you want, we both know you don’t have any minority friends. Why else do you bringup your wonderful working relationship with your minority coworkers? could it possibly because you don’t have anyother relationship with them?”
I went to an elementary school that had a latino majority and my best friends were Mexican (Francisco) and Bolivian (Javier). We are still friends to this day. Unlike many neighborhoods, my wife and I are friends with our neighbors and they are quite a mix of ethnicities. How about you dude? You sound pretty bitter.
You said “If your opposition was principled you would be demanding an end to their exploitation and the punishment of those who exploit them. You would not be demonizing them or blaming them for our economic or social problems.”
I think the exploiters should be put in jail for their crimes. I am not demonizing or blaming them for MY problems. I can handle them myself. I just do not want my tax money to pay for any services for them if the are here illegally.
My opposition to illegal immigration and illegal aliens is principled. The principle of law.
November 13, 2009 at 6:16 am
RE: Surfboy
-”Actually I am not feeling threatened but I am a little amused by your diatribe”
Astonishing how quickly you backpedaled from your charge of “your xenophobic diatribe”. You whined about the charge of racism directed at the overwhelmingly white anti-immigration rallies. I told you why all white “rallies” screaming about “illegals” “criminals” “invaders,” etc and demanding “justice” is so easily dismissed as a bunch of angry white people breakingout the “lets blame minorities” instead of those actually responsible. Its called scrapegoating and you like a huge percentage of white people willfully ignore the historical record of white violence directed at minorities to terrorize and disenfranchise.
-”You know what’s funny dude. You sound like Maxwell Smart…”The old lighter in the gun in the rabbit trick!”
Pathetic like i’m supposed to care about some old ass tv show.
-”Where do you come up with these? “The classic angry minority derailment tactic”,”The dictionary defense”,”standard deflect and derail tactic”.
all minorities are quite aware and familiar with all these common white derailment tactics. I’m not your mom, get a library card and do the research yourself.
-”You brought up the racist issue with your statement of “Using “illegal alien” and other racist terminology alienates and offends minorities.”
You are delude, I brought up how Illegal alien is used as a slur and not just as a way of defining a phenomenon. You whined about being called a racist for using nonPC language. Then you stupidly called me a racist for not stfu. Then you called my comments a xenophobic diatribe.
This is called the “your the racist/xenophobe/etc for bringing it up” derailment tactic.
-”I countered that it is correct terminology.”
you countered nothing, you delude yourself into thinking it has no negative connotation. Even elaine has admitted that that is why she wants to use “illegal alien” instead of some other unambigious term.
“Laws are written with words that defined in a dictionary”
-Pathetic; that is nonsensical and infantile.
“You said “I do not support immigration period but i’m not about to allow you to spread your “hate” without a rebuttal.” Exactly what is “your hate”? And what ARE you for?”
-Sad that you have no idea what “reading comprehension” is. I already stated that i find legal immigration predatory because we poach the highly educated after their home nations “invested” so many resource on their education. The whole “what is your hate” bit is moronic; poor baby can’t find anything “hateful” in my comments so he wants me to help him out. Its laughable that you are so indoctrinated that you cannot comprehend anything i have written. You shut your eyes and don’t allow anything i have written to sink in so your are incapable of figuring out my position. Its called context and you should be able to figure it out.
-”You said “As i said its easy to spot a white person by their use of the dictionary defense. You have just employed the dictionary defense, which is the typical “white” reponse to charges of racism.””
ROFLMAO, You quote me but add no analysis or any critique?
-”I was clearly just giving a definition to the words “illegal alien” and not “responding to charges of racism”. Get your facts straight.”
You were employing the dictionary defense because you want to pretend that “illegal alien” or any other nonPC language does not have a negative connotation or is never used as a slur. Anyone with half a brain is aware that phrases and words have multiple meaning that are not addressed in a dictionary entry.
-”Your multiple use of “Another retarded white response” sounds like someone has issues with “white” people”
Too pathetic, accusing me of having a deep-seated hatred of white people and white culture. You need to stop watching so much tv because that is straight out of fox’s playbook. Wah wah wah minorities are whining about racism that means they hate white people.
- “Dehumanize…no, criminalize…well duh! they are breaking the law just like the people that exploit them. They are all criminals because THEY KNOW THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW and they do it anyway. There are many people waiting their turn to immigrate and become a US citizen. I support them 100% and believe that these immigrants are at the core of what it is to be an American and the illegal immigrants are cheating them.”
As i said you are scrapegoating and dehumanizing them. You blame them for being a visible reminder of how powerless and insignificant you are. You blame them because you don’t have the balls to admit how the rich and powerful of the US don’t care what you think about immigration. They want cheap and vulnerable labor that can be terrorized and threated with deportation. What they want is what they get and your opinion doesn’t mean shit. Your little rallies will be labeled racist and subsequently dismissed as a lunatic fringe because of your desire to use nonPC language that demonizes and criminalized a visibly nonwhite population. Black people, Asians, Native american, latinos will not be caught dead at any of your rallies because your language identifies you as angry white people engaging in white tribalism.
You can try and hide behind the bible (golden rule), the dictionary, pro legal immigration propraganda, and any other bs. No one but white people with the same blind tribalism will be fooled.
-”I went to an elementary school that had a latino majority and my best friends were Mexican (Francisco) and Bolivian (Javier). We are still friends to this day. Unlike many neighborhoods, my wife and I are friends with our neighbors and they are quite a mix of ethnicities. How about you dude? You sound pretty bitter.”
francisco the mexican and javier the bolivian, ROFLMAO. Amusing how you stated they “were” your friends and then you contradicted yourself by saying they are still your friends. Exactly how old are you?
btw, Mexicans and other latinos were heavily segregated and not as numerous as today. So if you are 50+years old it is quite probable that you are full of it.
-”I think the exploiters should be put in jail for their crimes. I am not demonizing or blaming them for MY problems. I can handle them myself. I just do not want my tax money to pay for any services for them if the are here illegally.”
poor baby think his taxes are paying for cadillac benefits for illegals. Our gov’t has been squandering out tax dollars bombing other countries and attempting to bribe the rest. You are delude if you think our gov’t has been spending only our tax dollars, they have busted out the credit card and charged that to all the future generation as well. Deporting immigrant is not something i’m against but i am against your scrapegoating them for our failure to enforce our own employment and immigration laws.
-”My opposition to illegal immigration and illegal aliens is principled. The principle of law.”
There is a huge difference between legality and justice. There is nothing wrong with lobbying for enforcement our employment and immigration laws but it is unjust to blame the poor and exploited for our failure to enforce our own laws. They are not criminals or monsters they are human being doing what they must to survive.
You can pretend that you have tons and tons of minority friends and that your little nonPC and anti-immigration views are not divisive or confined almost exclusively to white people.
November 13, 2009 at 4:28 pm
“You whined about the charge of racism directed at the overwhelmingly white anti-immigration rallies.”
Nope. Sorry dude. I said nothing about “white immigration rallies”. I said “We who oppose illegal immigration”. Repeatedly, you are trying to put words in my mouth.
“Pathetic like i’m supposed to care about some old ass tv show.”
I don’t care if you do or not. But I do.
“The whole “what is your hate” bit is moronic; poor baby can’t find anything “hateful” in my comments so he wants me to help him out.”
Nope again. I asked you “what have I said that is hateful”.
“Too pathetic, accusing me of having a deep-seated hatred of white people and white culture. You need to stop watching so much tv because that is straight out of fox’s playbook. Wah wah wah minorities are whining about racism that means they hate white people.”
Nope yet again. Your words speak for themselves about how you probably do have deep seated issues dude.
“Your little rallies will be labeled racist…”
I don’t go those rallies and they aren’t mine.
Francisco and Javier were my “best friends” in elementary school. I just refer to them as my “friends” now. You see dude, as I said before, you know so little about me. I grew up and live near the border here in Cali, and have been surfing here in the States and in Baja for 20+ years (been surfing since age 13). I bet I have had more contact with more people in Mexico than you. My surfing trips are awesome. The Mexican people have almost always been great to me and my friends and we always give them respect. When I am in their country, I have to play by their rules though. Can’t tell you how many times we’ve had to pay or give stuff to the federales for whatever reason they come up with. When they are in our country, they have our rules to follow.
“poor baby think his taxes are paying for cadillac benefits for illegals”
Nope. I believe that we have too many US citizens that live here in poverty and I would rather my tax dollars go to help support them.
November 13, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Hey guys. You are spamming my inbox because I subscribed to this thread.
Peace and love. Nothing will get solved here anyway.
November 13, 2009 at 7:14 pm
ok. as far as this thread is concerned i’m out.
November 13, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Surfboy:
-”Nope. Sorry dude. I said nothing about “white immigration rallies”. I said “We who oppose illegal immigration”. Repeatedly, you are trying to put words in my mouth.”
And i told pointed out how you exclude anyone who disagrees with your use of nonPC language. Your sentiment are overwhelmingly “white” not representative of all americans.
-”Nope again. I asked you “what have I said that is hateful”.”
You are a liar, you were trying to accuse me of first being a racist, then xenophobic, then a “hater.” You have consistently ignored how illegal alien has and is being used by you and elaine as a slur not just as a way to describe a group of people.
-”Nope yet again. Your words speak for themselves about how you probably do have deep seated issues dude”
Point them out and quote my words speaking that i have deep seated issues. You are pathetic and can only whine you have issues because you cannot refute what i post.
-”I don’t go those rallies and they aren’t mine”
As i said before you are not principled because you rather sit at home and demonize illegals.
-”Francisco and Javier were my “best friends” in elementary school. You see dude, as I said before, you know so little about me. I grew up and live near the border here in Cali, and have been surfing here in the States and in Baja for 20+ years (been surfing since age 13). ”
This has nothing to do with the discussion on how you use illegal alien as a slur and not just as a convenient way of identifing a group of people.
-”I bet I have had more contact with more people in Mexico than you.”
Sorry buddy you lose, I have cousins, uncles, aunts, and other assorted relatives and family friends. Having “contact” is not equivalent to having friendships or any other type of relationship. This is derailing the discussion by bringing up unrelated and unsupported information.
-”My surfing trips are awesome. The Mexican people have almost always been great to me and my friends and we always give them respect.”
As i said before what is the point of this “information?
”
-”When I am in their country, I have to play by their rules though.”
NO shit shirlock, again what does this have to do with the discussion about illegal alien being used as a slur?
-”Can’t tell you how many times we’ve had to pay or give stuff to the federales for whatever reason they come up with.”
As i said you are a liar, there are no such thing as “federales” you got this information from hollywood. Federales were what the Mexican army was called before the 1910 revolution (i.e. federal army of mexico). Poor baby is pretending that he always has to pay a bribe; again what does this have to do with the discussion on how illegal alien is used as a slur?
-”When they are in our country, they have our rules to follow.”
They have to respect our laws BUT WE HAVE TO ENFORCE THEM.
November 16, 2009 at 10:21 am
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November 16, 2009 at 5:42 pm
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November 17, 2009 at 4:51 pm
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November 18, 2009 at 4:20 pm
ok. I tried to keep my word and not say anything more on this thread, but I can’t be called a liar without a response. I have been entirely truthful (except for me saying that I would no longer post on this thread
).
We have always called the men at military checkpoints or the local/federal police “federales” because that’s what we just refer to them as. I just looked it up in Wikipedia. “Federales is a slang Spanish term for Mexican Federal Police…” see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federales
I personally think of an “illegal alien” as just what the dictionary definition says. It’s just a way to identify group of people that are in the country illegally. Peace out.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: Correct.
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