Both the US and Chinese leaders decided to back off on the global warming ‘cap and trade’ business. So the entire program cooked up at several key secret meetings of the top elites of the planet to use the Derivatives Beast to fix pollution/energy problems has collapsed in total disarray. The odd push by jet setting, palace-living elites to get the rest of us peasants to change our lives has failed for many obvious reasons. Since this is in the news, it is time to discuss this business.
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Global warming is not our fault, say most voters in Times poll – Times Online
Less than half the population (UK) believes that human activity is to blame for global warming, according to an exclusive poll for The Times.
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The revelation that ministers have failed in their campaign to persuade the public that the greenhouse effect is a serious threat requiring urgent action will make uncomfortable reading for the Government as it prepares for next month’s climate change summit in Copenhagen.
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Only 41 per cent accept as an established scientific fact that global warming is taking place and is largely man-made. Almost a third (32 per cent) believe that the link is not yet proved; 8 per cent say that it is environmentalist propaganda to blame man and 15 per cent say that the world is not warming.
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Long, long ago I predicted that scaring people with global warming would fail in cold, wet climate areas. For example, no sane person should be shocked to learn that Russia or Canada don’t worry all that much about global warming. True, there are many people who want to preserve an existing status quo who don’t like to see any changes in flora or fauna during shifts in climates. But any review of the entire history of life on earth shows clearly that shifts in the status of lifeforms is the rule, not the exception.
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That is, our planet has a long history of change. This, incidentally, is why life evolves. Life doesn’t evolve just to maintain some comfortable status quo, it evolves when under stress. That is, ‘normal’ ceases to be good and mutations that normally are submerged within fauna and flora systems suddenly are successful while normal becomes fatal.
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Barack Obama acknowledged today that time has run out to secure a binding climate deal at Copenhagen and began moving towards a two-stage process that would delay a legal pact until next year at the earliest.
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During a hastily convened breakfast meeting in Singapore, the US president supported a Danish plan to salvage something from the moribund negotiations by aiming for a broad political agreement and postponing contentious decisions on emissions targets, financing and technology transfer….
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…”Heads of states must go beyond simply discussing the problems. They have to start solving them,” said Diane McFadzien of the Worldwide Fund for Nature. She noted that the APEC leaders deleted emission reduction targets in their final declaration.
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Prior to the Copenhagen meetings, a series of secret meetings were held where tactics for a big, big push to convince everyone that we need a massive-banker-run derivatives market to fix ‘global warming’. Instead of simply teaching us about global warming, the agenda was to impose this bizarre and I believe, totally useless and very expensive system on top of the global warming situation. That is, it was viewed as a grand opportunity to get even richer.
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Of course, these same people plotting to shove us into the cap and trade business all are jet setters who have gigantic personal carbon footprints. As I continually point out, these clowns refuse to practice what they preach. They don’t care if these carbon trade deals cost an arm and a leg. It will make them all richer and at the same time, energy costs for the top 1% of the rich is no problem even if it costs much more.
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The spectacle of all these ‘global warming’ Cassandras telling us very earnestly that time is running out and we have to stop consuming fossil fuels literally flies in the face of these same people jet setting all over the place. There is still a lot of controversy about what is going on. I, myself, happen to think that we may dodge the solar bullet in that we are due for a sudden end to this particular interglacial period. We are still very much in the Ice Age cycle. Russia and North America are still migrating to the top of the planet.
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The more landmasses that are on the top or the bottom of the earth means more ice and snow, not warming. Geology is very much against global warming.
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Climate change study shows Earth is still absorbing carbon dioxide – Telegraph
According to the study, the Earth has continued to absorb more than half of the carbon dioxide pumped out by humans over the last 160 years.This is despite emissions of CO2 increasing from two billion tonnes per year in 1850 to current levels of 35 billion tonnes per year.
. Previously it was thought that the Earth’s capability to absorb CO2 would decrease as production booms, leading to an accumulation of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere….
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…But Wolfgang Knorr, author of the new study, found that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has remained just over 50 per cent, with only tiny fluctuations being recorded despite the massive hike in output.
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He pointed out that his study relied entirely on empirical data, including historical records extracted from ice samples in the Antarctic, rather than speculative climate change models. “Previous studies suggested that in the next ten years the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere will accelerate because there is a lot less uptake by the Earth, there is no indication of this,” he said.
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However scientists cautioned that the ability of the oceans and rainforests to absorb carbon dioxide in the future may collapse, leading to a massive increase in temperatures.
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The advent of the goat as a domesticated animal has led to desertification in the older culture zones of the Middle East and Northern Africa. Where once many trees grew, there is no longer any shade. The ground dries out and less rain falls. Any tree that tries to grow is cropped to the roots within the first year of trying to grow.
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From the time of Abraham 4,500 years ago to today, herders moving these omni-eaters restlessly roam huge areas and in these areas, forests cease to regenerate. Unlike sheep, cows and horses, goats can even climb into trees to eat the leaves so they are ten times more destructive when it comes to forests.
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Since the advent of goat herding, the Mediterranean basin, Middle East, Caucus mountains and the Sahara has dried up considerably. So, humans have been altering the environment a long, long time. Aside from the obvious logging and using wood as fuel, Europe was virtually denuded of forests except for one major force: the rulers of Europe loved hunting in forests!
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The ruling 1% elites preserved Europe’s remaining woodlands. They did this by having foresters kill or maim any peasants who tried to harvest wood or graze pigs and goats in the woods. While the elites sat warm and comfortable in their many palaces and castles, wood burning merrily in giant fireplaces, the masses huddled in the dark and cold. Much of the solutions to ‘global warming’ are very similar. That is, the ultimate outcome will be the elites living high off the hog while the rest of humanity makes do with much less.
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This is illogical. Why would we want no global warming if the solution to this warming business is to cease using fuels and also, protecting forests….while we freeze to death due to it being cold?
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Mini ice age took hold of Europe in months – environment – 11 November 2009 – New Scientist
JUST months – that’s how long it took for Europe to be engulfed by an ice age. The scenario, which comes straight out of Hollywood blockbuster The Day After Tomorrow, was revealed by the most precise record of the climate from palaeohistory ever generated.
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Around 12,800 years ago the northern hemisphere was hit by the Younger Dryas mini ice age, or “Big Freeze”. It was triggered by the slowdown of the Gulf Stream, led to the decline of the Clovis culture in North America, and lasted around 1300 years.
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Until now, it was thought that the mini ice age took a decade or so to take hold, on the evidence provided by Greenland ice cores. Not so, say William Patterson of the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon, Canada, and his colleagues.
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For a long, long time, a number of us have figured that all the ice ages probably came on like a light switch being thrown. Of course, various geological and weather forces hare partially responsible. But what heats this planet?
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The answer is obvious: the sun. And it is equally obvious that long before there were more than a handful of humans doing what we do, the Ice Ages began like a clap of lightning. Bang! Indeed, our present evolution is directly due to this Greatest of Emergencies: to survive this mess, humans had to quickly figure out how to do things like make clothes out of animal skins, just for one glaring example.
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Here is a story I wrote about all this two years ago: Evolution News: The Perfect Storm Of Celestial And Earth Events Exterminates NA Mammals
It is a very complex read and talks about how a confluence of events: a comet disintegrating across North America, a volcano blowing up, a major caldera event in Germany, the release of waters from an ice-dammed lake in Canada, as well as a change in solar output probably caused the Younger Dryas event. Which was one of several to rock the ecosystems.
Did Dryas comet really kill off mammoth? | COSMOS magazine
Debate on the existence of a Younger Dryas comet impact, 12,900 years ago, and whether it is linked to mass extinctions of large mammals and early humans in North America reopened this week.
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The Younger Dryas was a 1,300-year-long cold snap that affected climate in much of the Northern Hemisphere. In 2007, a team led by Richard Firestone of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, in the U.S., argued that it was caused by the impact of a comet.
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Firestone acknowledged that there is controversy but argues that there is an explanation for the hard-to-duplicate results.
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“Some people have had trouble reproducing our results because they are taking sediment samples that are too wide. Typically people take sample sediments in five-centimetre intervals. In the case of the Younger Dryas impact, the layer was sometimes as little as a millimetre thick.”
. “The recent studies that found nothing used samples as much as 15 centimetres thick, which highly diluted the results,” he said.
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The debate about all this rages onwards. Which shows us that there is no definitive answer and which also means, there are multiple causes for these dramatic and sudden changes. But any geologist or evolution expert knows that the history of this planet is littered liberally with these sorts of sudden changes. And humans are changing the earth. This is obvious. We are a tremendous biomass that can exploit all other biomasses.
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And yes, we can’t do this forever or to infinity. We have to limit ourselves. Which takes us to another issue: all manufacturing, first world nations with good healthcare systems and great physical comfort are now reproducing below the rate of replacement.
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All cultures that are primitive, have poor or no public healthcare and are very, very poor, have many children. The poorer the human population, the faster they reproduce. So, reducing us all to peasant status will increase human populations while not doing this and consuming more resources, we produce fewer and fewer humans. This is a paradoxical situation and history is filled with such paradoxes. That is, it is the nature of nature to be paradoxical and the horns of dilemma are not unusual but natural and common.
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Of course, people can volunteer to not consume natural resources. There have been many movements to do this such as the monastery movements when they are launched. Except the monastaries themselves became bloated and addicted to comfort and high living which is another paradox.
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The main thing we must remember is, things will change. The sun isn’t stable but changes all the time, too. And the cosmos is filled with dangerous events that can still hammer the earth. And so on. Yes, we are all doomed. But the doomsayers who fear global warming are losing the battle for hearts and minds due to being hypocrites. I don’t see them in sack cloth and ashes, walking instead of flying in jets! Shame on them, if they seriously believe their own doom rhetoric, they should set an example, not do business as usual.
We’ve known for almost 2 years now that Solar Cycle 24 isn’t kicking in.
There is a direct correlation between lack of sunspots and the catastrophic cooling experienced during the Dalton and Maunder minimums.
Follow the lack of sunspots here :
http://www.spaceweather.com/
At this point in the solar cycle, there should be hundreds of sunspots on any given day.
The Deniers: Our spotless sun
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/05/31/the-deniers-our-spotless-sun.aspx
Ziffhouse- You’re in Canada aren’t you ? You still flogging that swampland in Florida ? I’ll trade you for some oceanfront property in Arizona.
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ELAINE: My father predicted that this solar cycle would be weak, about three years ago based on observations on Kitt Peak and the various solar satellites that track the sun.
“The ruling 1% elites preserved Europe’s remaining woodlands.”
Not everywhere in Europe
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http://www.mtk.fi/MTK_briefly/forestry/en_GB/forestry_general/
20% of Finns own forest in some form.
Every mans rights in the Nordics:
The age-old concept of everyman’s right gives everyone the basic right to roam freely in the countryside, without needing to obtain permission, no matter who owns or occupies the land.
http://www.ymparisto.fi/download.asp?contentid=25603
I freely admit though this is not the norm elsewhere in Europe. We are the most forested country in Europe. I own 30 hectares (75 acres) myself. And no I am not a rich man.
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ELAINE: Ah, Finland was only very briefly taken over by the Norman European royals. It is like England before 1000 AD.
>>> For example, no sane person should be shocked to learn that Russia or Canada don’t worry all that much about global warming.
Similarly the poorer and less developed countries of the World do not care much either. Their focus is on creating jobs, feeding the teeming millions, reducing corruption, liberalization, democratization, improving transparencies, keeping stability, developing infrastructure etc.
“Only 41 per cent accept as an established scientific fact that global warming is taking place and is largely man-made.”
That’s very skewed wording. “scientific fact” is an oxymoron. Is the theory of relativity an “established scientific fact”? Is evolution an established scientific fact? Not really, because scientists have theories. They leave established facts to priests.
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ELAINE: Scientific fact means ‘present consensus’. Of course, evolution is a theory. But it is also a very good and useful theory that works so far as we know right now. Global warming is a cause, not a real theory. That is, weather systems are impacted by many, many forces, the #1 being the sun. We do have to worry about oceanic acidification! That is BAD, BAD, BAD for us. Which is why I call upon the rich environmentalists to live in tents and walk everywhere, not jet set and live in palaces. Ahem.
I lived in a tent for 10 years and had no electricity, etc. Very primitive.
Phil Chapman, geophysicist, astronautical engineer had this to say back in 2008:
Snippets
The scariest photo I have seen on the internet is http://www.spaceweather.com, where you will find a real-time image of the sun from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, located in deep space at the equilibrium point between solar and terrestrial gravity.
What is scary about the picture is that there is only one tiny sunspot.
The new cycle, No.24, was supposed to start soon after that, with a gradual build-up in sunspot numbers.
It didn’t happen. The first sunspot appeared in January this year and lasted only two days. A tiny spot appeared last Monday but vanished within 24 hours. Another little spot appeared this Monday. Pray that there will be many more, and soon.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sorry-to-ruin-the-fun-but-an-ice-age-cometh/story-e6frg73o-1111116134873
”We are still very much in the Ice Age cycle. Russia and North America are still migrating to the top of the planet.”
Oh dear, your relative time scales are way off and not appropriate to the discussion. not a bad article though. I know you want to find an original approach to GW , but its hard to out think the scientists who spend all their time on this.
Recent item on CBC, couple of guys with a wrench in Ontario build 90 acres of solar panels, will power 1000 homes [claim]. So rough scale up, 12400,000 Canda homes, solar farm 100 x 17.5 mi [that could be spread of course]. All we need is leadership .
This is a link to a TV advert, paid for by the taxpayer, that plays constantly in the UK at the moment:
It is obviously infantile, crudely emotionally manipulative, and propaganda. Not all people in the UK are stupid – the more people watch this advert, the less they will believe anything the producers of this advert say. About anything
It reminds me of Mel Gibson’s Apocalypto. The Mayan nutcases who chopped heads off to appease their Gods were about as in tune with the truth as the Global Warming propagandists that filmed, financed and distributed this advert.
UK and US folk had already taken leave of their senses by championing debt as equivalent to wealth, and showering the architects of the credit boom and collapse with gifts and bonuses even as they lay waste to the economy, our jobs, livelihoods and standards of living.
It’s a dawn of a new dark age
@ ziff house – Take the red pill.
The Club of Rome ( one of the elite’s think tanks)…from The First Global Revolution :
“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill…”
http://www.green-agenda.com/globalrevolution.html
Gold is not money.
Gold is not a monetary system.
Gold is a hedge against bad government.
Gold at new record high today
‘Global warming is a cause, not a real theory. ”
Oh come now, you could say it is both.
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ELAINE: It leaves out the sun factor.
Dear Okanagan Fruitcake;
You should know about pills i suspect.
I wonder if the cooling aspect has anything to do with mini-Buffy and the Gates ‘philanthopy’ foundation searching for alpha in Africa?
The pathetic lack of political will to sign a binding treaty on climate change in Copenhagen will certainly assure the possibility of flooding the Rift Valley again.
Collectively ignoring the changing climate, or assigning the changes to moody sunspots will maintain the international focus on business-as-usual.
Ensuring that each country will continue strategically maneuvering to get the upper hand at trade at any costs to the environment and social stress.
Out of the jet stream and back to the street, what do think of the following Elaine –
Preparing China’s yuan for the world stage
http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/16/news/international/china_yuan_currency.fortune/index.htm
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ELAINE: The African rift valley has been heading towards becoming watery for a very long time. It is doomed to become like the Gulf of Aden. As for California: the central valley there will eventually fill just like the Gulf of California. It is how the tectonic plate movements operate.
Younger Dryas was caused by planets aproximating to us 12000-8000 years ago…because of the re-stress caused by a more electrical charge in this part of the universe.
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ELAINE: That is pure lunacy.
@ELAINE, “Scientific fact means ‘present consensus’.”
Present consensus = opinion = belief.
example: vaccines are great.
Scientific fact = critical observation = truth.
example: vaccines are for idiots.
Vaccines are great. Eat that.
”It leaves out the sun factor.”
A thorough discussion.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/07/the-lure-of-solar-forcing/
also, nighttime temperatures are rising, a signature of Co2 warming.
Ziff, there may be global warming but the selection of this particular year, a pretty cold one in the northern hemisphere, was just plain stupid.
And worse, the demand that we all change to fix this while the guys at the tippy top refuse to curb even slightly, their own consumption, has killed this business good, hasn’t it?
Demanding we show more concern than the very rich is hopeless. So I hope the rich, who seem to be upset about all this, show some gumption and renounce their vast wealth and dedicate every penny of all their money towards fixing global warming.
This will occur when hell freezes over, of course.
This is global warming.
http://www.youtube.com/user/jberni1#p/u/0/URIhhyhmI-8
Elaine , not sure what you are referring to ‘ this particular year’ , but agree of course, leadership is required. Someone said they know the ship is sinking but they want the best seats.
I know you had a cool summer, we had an exceptionaly warm one , i always say there is never enough hot or cold for the whole continent. I think we are in a cooling phase of the uptrend, a circulation effect.
@ziff,
Nighttime temps are rising more due to cloud cover increasing than to CO2 increasing. Remember 9/11? Right after, BushCo ordered all privately-owned planes to be grounded EXCEPT FOR THE BIN LADENS.’ The cloud cover was greatly reduced due to lack of chemtrails (contrails). During that time, daytime temps were higher and nighttime temps were lower.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/contrail.html
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ELAINE: Good find! Thanks.
@Elaine:
I think the REAL reason the elites are pushing this global warming guilt trip, is that they KNOW peak oil is coming soon or has already passed and they do not want to panic the markets. Otherwise, they’re liable to lose all of their beautiful money! To the gnomes, of course.
ELAINE: That is pure lunacy.
No it is not, mars aproximated to us 8000 years ago, and again ~5000 ago.
The actual astrophysics is what is lunacy.
Welcome to an electrical universe… i can present the universe to you if you want, and you will se that everything makes sense…IEEE supports this theory. Are they nuts as me ?
The IEEE is not a bunch of astronomers. I grew up in a family filled with astronomers and I know of virtually no astronomers that have that belief system.
Elaine don´t be so resistent, this is not a lunacy it is real, and it is happening everywhere now on the universe…this will change almost everything we now today about the earth , us and universe.If you be resistent you will die believing a lie.Like jesus, blackholes etc… if you want to know more i will send an email to you so you can see that the astrophysics is based on math and not observation…its the thunder that steers the universe…
I know all about it. Like many such things, it has a heavy online presence but nearly no profile in any legitimate publications that are ‘vetted’.
Go look it up in Wikipedia. There are many, many strange and odd and magical belief systems online. And they can be very convincing but only if you never accept any data that disproves these beliefs.
This is why readers here howl at me whenever I reject some goofy storyline. No matter what data I bring up, it is tossed back into my face by fanatics who have invested EMOTIONAL love on various odd ideas.
Hell, I have had readers stomp out on me because I make fun of the ‘aliens are all over the place, spying on us and flashing lights at us!’ stories.
This is not emotional elaine, plasma cosmology is very real.
Look for the professor antony Perrat also.
Elaine, which it is your myer briggs personality type ?
Gads, what difference does my own personality make when we look at astronomy? The ‘electric universe’ people are very closely cross grouped with the antivaccinationists, for example. They all go to places like Rense.com to learn the latest ideology points and he is big on the ‘electric universe’ story. As well as publishing some of the goofiest scary vaccination art works.
Sad words, hope someday you join us. It´s hard to believe in the first begining but if you wanna the truth ,it is plasma cosmology. it will make a lot of sense if you go deep further. And don´t go after this crazy math guys who think to know a lot, the universe is much simpler, and we have already a lot of answers to the universe.This is not madness, this is not emotional, it is pure science.It is pure… Observation. Not math or computer models…
Ed.m;
”James Hansen of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, and colleagues ran models that increased the contrail coverage in Minnis’s study by a factor of five. Even with this significant increase, Hansen’s team found that global mean temperature change was in the neighborhood of 0.03°C (0.05°F)—a minute amount.”
James Hansen seems like a decent fella to me, but I have never met him personally.
Had a chance to watch him during a presentation, but I wasn’t able to make it. He was in town to express his views regarding Duke Power’s (or is it “Duke Energy”???? hard to keep track of it all) plans to build a coal-fired plant in Cliffside, NC.
All indications are that that plant is gonna be constructed at an expense of several billion US fiat dollars. Hard to tell if the price is worth it. I don’t think so.
I think all new coal-fired plants will rapidly show themselves to be historically misguided huge, foolish ventures of a few demented individuals; as well as “losing-out in the capitalist game of ego-fool-big-whigs-in their own minds”, wastes of money. A huge waste, when the same amount of funds could literally be used to “rebuild” a sad city in disarray. Lets say Detroit for example.
Ah well, the money was fiat anyhow, so maybe it never existed in the first place. That is probably how the historians will tell the story.
Because some debts I doubt will ever be repaid, but per the 14th Amendment (I think that is the one), these debts were created by usurpers and are not the responsibility of constitutional US citizens.
That is my reading of that amendment. I think it was the 14th. I also think the 10th merits more rapid state delegation actions. I think TN and a few other states already have gone on record in this regard.
Peace,
Ken
This is specifically what I am referring to:
(Thanks CK for the long-ago link)….
14 Amendment – US Constitution
Section. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
hi Ken,
All a big scam, why not just get on with doing the right thing.
yes indeed ziff house – I agree.
Lets get on with the “inevitable”….somebody has got to do it, so it might as well be me!
Peace,
Ken
but just to “play” devil’s advocate for a moment (I’m very good at that if you want to hire me, just send a note – I take payment only in gold and silver coin please)……..
What is inevitable is obviously a function of perception (the 5th dimension), and is not the same as what happens which is a function of time (of the essence).
This is why, you can’t go back and you can’t go forward —– in time. Suggest we live in the moment to me….the best we know at a given moment in time.
Legal disclosure: The above post should not be considered a ramble…
oh yeah, the above was not an advertisement for my services….just kind of a joke, but not really.
Legal disclosure: there are too many lawyers in the us of a who seem to know nothing about the constituion of said country, and therefore, these lawyers obviously are in need of a schooling…I take this back though if “the lawyers” started in earnest helping the political economist better understand the US Consitution.
Just a lonely peasant opinion…ha, ha.
Well, well…
CRU in University of East Anglia was hacked and their emails are all over the internet now.
Al Gore`s disciples are on the run now…
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hadley_hacked#63657
They talk about how to hide the colding for example.
I downloaded the 66mb file (166mb uncompressed).
Seems to be the real stuff (according to the murobbs nerd army scanned with Norman, Norton, AVG and F-secure it´s clean).
And it´s real:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8370282.stm
Download link, if somebody wants to download:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XD050VKY
Seems real to me. Years, metadata, office versions differ from year to year. Someone
So news tomorrow “Hoax of the century revealed”. Stars of the show the Hockey Team, audience the 15.000 politicians holding an airline ticket to Copenhagen.
Have to make some pop corn and see where this goes.
now if someone could hack into the vaccinationists computers….
just a little tease for ems
“From: Phil Jones
To: “Michael E. Mann”
Subject: IPCC & FOI
Date: Thu May 29 11:04:11 2008
Mike,
Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?
Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.
Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t
have his new email address.
We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.
I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature paper!!
Cheers
Phil”
Just on example…
CA = Steve Mcintyre´s Climateaudit site
Better than anything on TV tonight
. The blogs are having a field day, thousands of emails and papers all over the net. They´re talking about strategy to Copenhagen, who should do peer checks on their data, which scientist to oust (wrong results), how not to give out information to critics, how to modify raw data to get the “right” results ….
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails
Let´s see how the media reacts tomorrow.
JT
Try James Hogan ”The Crusade to Deny Global Warmin”
Instead of this dingbat stuff why not just get on with the job of reducing CO2.
1748 sq/mi solar will power Canada, 2 guys with a wrench did 90 acres.
Hitting the news now.
Professor of Environmental change Atte Korhola:
“Emails are real, I´ve been reading the correspondence all day. I know the people who have written the emails and I´m shocked that the “fixing” of the data has been so deliberate.”
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/uutiset/ulkomaat/uutinen.asp?id=1776127
Well the bad news is now this will be applied to all nature conservation. CO2 calculations are false. We should still prevent pollution and get away from oil asap.
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE; CO2 calculations are based on assumptions, of course. We must stop burning too much oil and coal, of course. I have been a proponent of renewable energy since the early 1970′s. Simple pollution of various bad stuff like sulfur, etc is reason enough to avoid the coal/oil burning messes. I hate acid rain.
And oil will run out and ditto, coal. We need these for MANUFACTURING stuff. That is, it is good for making things, why burn it? We are burning the past.
” From: Kevin Trenberth
To: Michael Mann
Subject: Re: BBC U-turn on climate
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:57:37 -0600
Cc: Stephen H Schneider , Myles Allen , peter stott , “Philip D. Jones” , Benjamin Santer , Tom Wigley , Thomas R Karl , Gavin Schmidt , James Hansen , Michael Oppenheimer
Hi all
Well I have my own article on where the heck is global warming? We are asking that here in
Boulder where we have broken records the past two days for the coldest days on record. We
had 4 inches of snow. The high the last 2 days was below 30F and the normal is 69F, and it
smashed the previous records for these days by 10F. The low was about 18F and also a
record low, well below the previous record low. This is January weather (see the Rockies
baseball playoff game was canceled on saturday and then played last night in below freezing
weather).
…
The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a
travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008
shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. ”
That´s my personal favorite of the emails. They are not evil guys. Some of them have noticed the problems.
http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/Trenberth/trenberth-publish.html
agreed JT, lately I’ve been thinking GW is a way to get people focused on 1 environmental issue to the detriment of others..here we will do some meaningless cap and trade…now don’t worry about all that plastic in the ocean and in your bodies..or if we kill off a few more species
Plastic in the oceans is a catastrophe for nature. Pollution of various sorts is a catastrophe and we should strive to avoid this.
On the other hand, the cap and trade stuff is nonsense. It is for the bankers and speculators, not nature. Nature wants us to readjust how we exist.
I recall the Lizard propaganda machine “pumping and dumping” NAFTA and GATT as ultimate job creators.
Bada Bing! … 1 out of every 5 American workers is unemployed.
Now we got Global Warming, Pandemic, and Health Care quangos … out to save the world.
My next annual physical will be in China, if I can afford the ticket.
Warning:: you could spend a lifetime debating dingbats here.
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ELAINE: True. But I didn’t want an echo chamber here. So I was very tolerant. But it seems that some segments of the population is losing it. This is interesting in a clinical sense as well as disturbing. If the US collapses, I expect witch hunts, attacks on intellectuals and racism to run riot as people try to fix things Khmer Rouge style.
More to come from the whistleblower.
.
He wrote that this was just a random collection of emails and files.
So more to come, man I love the collection of tubes called the Internet
Nerds here are already checking the data and the fortran code that was released.
And if you want a more main stream news Der Spiegel, Climatologists Baffled by Global Warming Time-Out:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,662092-2,00.html
If you want to discredit GW you have to;
-prove CO2 , H2O gas does not reflect certain wavelengths of infrared
-prove CO2 is not increasing, don’t say its natural it has an isotope signature
there are cooling cycles because the earth still has some cold spots
the sun may die suddenly but don’t bet on long odds
Elaine; you should turf these GW deniers , they are time wasters, on a global level ,dangerous time wasters.
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ELAINE: Volcanic eruptions in the Ring of Fire in the Pacific have occluded the high stratosphere. So it cools off a bit. When this settles or stops, it will heat up again. But admitting the volcanos cause vast and long weather changes irritates some people so it is not fully accepted yet. But eventually, will be accepted. Once they figure this out, they can then modify weather predictions.
ziff house:
. Cold spots? I bet you are as much a scientist as I am.
No Ziff, the research has to prove that CO2=Global warming.
And if the research data has been tainted, they should prove it again.
Doesn´t your own post tell the whole story, the climate should be getting warmer, except it doesn´t
You can´t cut corners with science and seems like the hockey team have done exactly that.
CO2 makes the climate somewhat warmer, on a given moment in time like 1998. What happens when other variables change?
Seems like we haven´t got a clue.
So I guess I´m a dangerous time waster (guilty I admit).
Debate the merits of GW with real science, not hand picked data that’s been manipulated to support a cause. These stolen documents show that these particular scientists manipulated the data and did their best to suppress opposing points of view..which hurts their cause greatly….openness…transparency…will win the day…if your afraid of a little debate now and then your point of view isn’t very strong…
Lastly, why focus only on CO2..we as humans dump thousands of chemicals into our planet and bodies..is CO2 causing species depletion? maybe so but I would guess their is much more to it.
By the way I was an environmental studies minor in college back in the 80′s when GW was getting it’s start.. I bought the idea whole heartedly at the time…now I’m not so sure CO2 is the villian we make it out to be.. CO2 levels have been much higher in the past before man was even around..
should we pollute…hell no…let’s cut all emissions,not just CO2.. and don’t tax me for the coal plant down the street which makes a profit and should as a matter of business take care of their own emissions.
We get a different world than the one we have now. That is, Greenland will be very green again, Canada and Russia will quadruple or even more, their ability to grow summer crops and deserts in the equator belt will increase but if Antarctica melts, we have a very big continent to colonize! And so it goes: all changes are changes.
Overlooking the interesting parts is wrong. And more: the rise in the oceans will change many things, too. But trust me, it is tons better than losing most of the Northern Hemisphere’s top landmasses to gigantic glaciers a mile thick! All the cities we fret about will not be flooded but crushed utterly and totally.
And all other coastal cities will cease to be cities as they will be far inland, too.
”has to prove that CO2=Global warming”.
it has , unplug your ears, get over the shock of being told you have a fatal disease, help do something about it.
you have no idea the contempt you engender.
CO2 and Sunlight
CO2 and sunlight
go together in the climate carriage
let me tell you brother
the temperature is changed by
one and the other.
( apologies to Al Bundy and family for borrowing their theme )
@ziff:
“it has , unplug your ears.”
So howcome it´s getting colder? CO2 means 1 degree celsius warming max, the problem is with the hockey sticks of 7 degrees. Will not happen sorry, you´ve been lied to.
Btw. I´ve recycled for 10 years, I live in a small well insulated energy efficient house, I´ve driven a small good gas mileage car all my life (Europe), I have compost in my yard, I heat 30% my house with renewable wood, I have already payed 1000€ / year for a decade in environmental taxes here, I already have my electricity bill doubled by env. taxes.
And so does everybody I know here and everybody has done this for a decade already.
What have you done lately Ziff?
Carbon Tax is no solution, we just move more production to China and they spew out even more than we would.
And Ziff we have carbon trading here and it meant that the our very clean modern coal plants were shut down and now we import electricity from Russia made with sovjet 40 year old tech coal plants. And the power companies made tonload of money in the process of shutting down their plants (they sold the carbon rights).
And we can´t stop CO2 anyway, maybe we should try to save something else.
I do agree that limiting carbon would have a loot of good things attached to it. But shouldn´t we make decicions on real data not fixed? And should we start a casino for bankers?
And it makes a big difference to me whether I have to pay taxes/revenue to someone if I want to light my fireplace. I may need my fire due to Peak Oil, the next ice age whatever.
If the weather gets warmer here I´ll consume less btw.
“Warmist Conspiracy” exposed by Ian Plimer, aussie geologist:
“Anthropogenic global warming (AGW) theory, he argues, is the biggest, most dangerous and ruinously expensive con trick in history.”
http://tinyurl.com/ycpdjlh
JT, the same here with myself. Forests are not disappearing….in the NE USA, for example. They are disappearing in the equatorial belt!
This cutting away of the rain forests is causing these hot areas to dry up rapidly. Humans have been ‘desertfication’ creatures since day one. We kill forests, dry up lands.
And changing this is a good idea. The anti-global warming people want to continue as is which is unsustainable.
But the dire warnings of the global warming people that time has run out is silly, unuseful and fake.
‘how come it´s getting colder?’
its not, people are getting dumber