A-I-P-A-C Are The Forbidden Letters In US Media Headlines

As AIPAC meets all week long and 99% of our political ‘leaders’ crawl on their bellies to please this gang representing a foreign power, our news media can’t be totally silent since this is a Seig Heil moment for Jewish sovereignty and they do want to use this meeting as a war drumming device, the screaming for war from the Jews running Israel is very loud now.

 

Iran just had a real election…as real as Japanese or American elections maybe even more real since there have been more choices than we have, for example.  Thanks to US and Israeli Jewish pressure on Iran, Khamenei allies trounce Ahmadinejad in Iran election winning 75% of the seats.  As usual, all forms of hostile pressure put on any nation leads to people there voting for more conservative, more nationalist leaders.

 

Of course, sanctions like the ones on Iran are cynically done because the people pressuring Iran WANT Iran to be more radically right wing!  Far from encouraging liberalism, the US/Israel actions in ANY Muslim nation is radicalizing and pushing deeper into religious fanatical positions in opposition.  We see this in Egypt which saw 80% of the seats in the recent elections going to the Muslim parties on the right.

 

Far from liberalizing Islam, the US is radicalizing the people in these countries.  Of course, this amuses the Jewish media owners who love painting us all into this dire corner with the US feeling that all Muslims are radicals and dangerous and want war!  Also, Russia had an election, too.  And the US media paints this as evil and how Putin didn’t really win yet this same media here, when the Supreme Court announced we had no right to vote for President and thus, votes don’t need to be counted, the media owners here told us all to shut up, Bush won and then went on to ignore us.

 

When Bush Jr pushed us into the Iraq war, there were massive antiwar demonstrations, I attended several including the DC one and the US media owners either lied about the demonstrations or refused outright to report them.  We were denied appropriate coverage and the problems we face today is due entirely to the manipulations of the news by media owners who get to pick and choose, IN TANDEM, what we see or cannot see.  And one thing they do not want us to understand is how Jewish money power players control our government.

 

Therefore, they either downplay or hide or totally censor news about AIPAC.  They may cover a speech made by one of our DC Knesset or puppet President says but won’t talk about AIPAC, itself.  Certainly, there are absolutely no muckraking articles about AIPAC influence!  So, a look at the headlines and articles in several publications today:

 

AIPAC – NYTimes.com Search

Unlike previous years when the NYT carried exactly zero articles about AIPAC, this year, they have put up several.  But these articles are for Jews to read and to read them, you have to look for them very carefully.  For none of these are headline news!  Here is a screen shot of the NYT today and do note they have the obligatory picture and article highly featured showing unhappy Muslims begging for the US to bomb their countries even more.

 

The AIPAC article doesn’t mention the word AIPAC in the headline or the summary.  It does mention the existence of a lobby.  The ‘Iran elections…blow to President’ is cute.  Of course, the warmongering, the screaming for Iranian dead, the marching around, huffing and puffing, strangling Iran’s economy, etc. leads to the usual: the Iranians vote for a stronger Muslim rule!  Duh!  Of course, the NYT, being a Zionist rag, has to pretend it is the fault of the US puppet government that this nasty thing has happened.

 

Of course, the Jewish owners of our government will demand even more warmongering, more screams for attacking Iran and then the media owners will tell us, it is all the fault of the Iranians who are girding for war!  The idea that one has to back down to have peace especially when it comes to religion, is anathema.

 

Now on to AIPAC headquarters, the Washington Post:

HAHAHA.  Dead silence!  Here is a search inside the WP for news about the organization this paper represents so carefully and constantly:

Again, like the NYT, the Jews reading their own rag can find articles about their own lobby but it is not on the front page.  So the average reader who scans the front pages will trot off to the wrong articles while the real news is carefully buried in plain sight.  Only very knowledgeable readers will dig up these buried tidbits.

 

CNN buries the AIPAC news, too.  It is half way down the line of items here with the Syrian photographs at the top and well-placed.  As per usual with all these headlines, AIPAC is seldom mentioned except with the WP but the articles with this in the title are all buried and not even at all on the front page with the letters ‘A-I-P-A-C’.

Not to be left behind, Google News does the same.  Here is today’s headlines:

The dire letter combo that the US media hides is hidden here, too.  Netanyahu is here along with an army of rich Jews who are meeting with ALL of our government and demanding they all swear fealty to…Israel, not the US.  Which all of them are doing.  THIS is the real news!

 

When I look at comments to any of these articles, I see instantly that many, many comments are very anti-AIPAC.  And most are wary or even openly hostile to Israel’s Jewish leadership which is fascist.  There are many but too few Jews in the US who are aware that Israel is even more radicalized by this warmongering than Syria or Iran.  Or any Muslim nation.  Israel has gone increasingly for Naziism.  And this is a grave, grave danger for Jews in America.  If Naziism is OK for Jews then it will be OK for Christian white Americans or the Catholic Church or anyone.

 

Now, on to where AIPAC is not only loudly discussed by openly discussed even using the five letters!  Israel:

HAHAHA.  Not even slightly shy about using the letters or discussing what is going on!  Even, I dare suggest, ARGUING about this matter openly!  Wow!  Wish we had a media able to do this!  Back to the top media giant, the NYT:

 

Israel’s Backers in Aipac Press Obama to Harden Iran Policy – NYTimes.com

 

In his tone, at least, Mr. Obama is working to reassure Israel. In an interview published on Friday, Mr. Obama reiterated his pledge to prevent Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon — with force, if necessary — and ruled out a policy of accepting but seeking to contain a nuclear-armed Iran. The Israeli government, he said, recognizes that “as president of the United States, I don’t bluff.”

The White House’s choice of interviewer — Jeffrey Goldberg, a national correspondent for the magazine The Atlantic — was carefully calculated. Mr. Goldberg is closely read among Jews in America; in 2010, he wrote an article exploring the situations under which Israel would attack Iran.

 

Many years ago before Zionists bought and took over and destroyed the Atlantic Monthly, I read it.  12 years ago, they even had an open website and I was allowed to run a section of it, examining politics.  Until…I wrote the fatal five letter word when that year, Zionists infiltrated the place and began censoring people.  Naturally, I was instantly banished. As I was, at the same time, banished from the Democratic Underground where I cross-posted stuff.  The DU censors explained that no one was allowed to discuss AIPAC or Jewish influence in DC since it didn’t matter and anyone doing this was antisemitic.  Here is the Atlantic monthly today:

Note the absence of the five letter in the headline.  Goldberg, when he took over, turned what used to be a useful way of finding information into a propaganda rag.  Of course, Obama wants to have Goldberg assure Jewish sponsors of our government that he is truly, honestly subservient to them but cannot push the entire US into yet another war…today.  He wants them to wait until after the election which seems to be all about wars with Muslims and how to EXPAND, not cease these.

 

The US reels from high gas prices so…the US media and our entire government does everything in their power to reduce world oil supplies even further.  Today, several papers have stories buried with no tattle tale headlines that actually admit that oil prices shot up due to this oil boycott.  But not in the headlines!!!  Headlines are highly important and having a bland headline like, ‘Obama meets with Netanyahu’ and then buried in paragraph 10 comes this admission about the connection.

 

This way, the Jewish media owners can slyly say, ‘But we had the news!’ while knowing very, very well, they hid it at the same time.

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72 Comments

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72 responses to “A-I-P-A-C Are The Forbidden Letters In US Media Headlines

  1. Being There

    Of course, you know that this country is not really a nation state anymore with any real interest in the people as a constituency anymore, but a global entity that is at once corporate fascist and global corporate communist. Its all about using the former middle class and soon to be former middle class and their taxes to be used for anything but the nation state.

    The government’s client is not the people but the banks. This idea was instituted during the “Democrat” Clinton in his re-inventing Government movement.

    Now they want to continue using our money for the unending “war against terror” and we are using the Minority Report concept that we have to stop existential dangers from happening. Needless to say we are going to be very busy until the system crashes.

    In the meantime, I don’t think Israel is the tail that wags the dog, but the politics of it on the ground sure looks like it! I am not disputing that the right-wingers in Israel aren’t trying to manipulate our policies along with AIPAC, but I also don’t believe we would go along with anything that we haven’t already determined through various war games scenarios works for out over-all hegemony in the chessboard we call the world.

    There’s also the political angle here on the ground where Obama has to so the tango with the Neocons who are trying to smash his presidency and those who are trying to re-introduce Jim Crow laws so no other black man ever gets in the White Hs again.

    The other issue is the Kabuki theater of threats that are supposed to keep nuclear technology out of the hands of aspiring nations. After all it’s clear to everyone that we don’t attack countries that have them. How are we going to make the world safe for McDonald’s if we can’t call in the tanks?

    Yes we want to radicalize the middle east to make the grab for the last big sweet crude the property of privatized transnationals. Again nothing for the US and everything for privatization.

    There really is a global war taking place through finance that destroys countries and privatizes their public assets. It can be just as effective as war.

    Our main export still and that is weapons and war. Gotta keep that thing going. There’s lots of security and military private contractors that need to be fed.

  2. @Being There, I’m not sad about the death of the nation state concept. That idea really is fascist: that there is an “American people,” and that the state exists to further the interests of this (usually poorly defined) group.

    One of Netanyahu’s ongoing projects is to try and resurrect the nation state, at least in the case of Israel. He frequently pushes other leaders to recognize Israel as a “Jewish state,” meaning a state for the Jewish people (however defined). That would legitimate his ethnic cleansing goals, because Arabs in a Jewish state could be portrayed as impostors. Then, if he ran out of Israeli Arabs, but still wanted a pretext for having a secret police, it would never be difficult to find a new group of people within the state who were not really part of the nation, as currently defined — non-Jewish (or insufficiently Jewish) people in the state for the Jewish people. It’s a tried and tested formula.

    So I wouldn’t push for a government that represents “The American people,” vaguely defined. Maybe push for one that represents particular values.

  3. Being There

    Steve,

    I politely disagree in that a sovereign state with a people represented by the leadership they elect should in fact be faithful to a constitution that allows them to express grievences and determine/steer the policies of that state. That was what was so enlightened about the American Revolution. We the people pay for taxes that benefit us as a whole and not just a few people on top who are wiping the floor with us.

    When we build other nations’ economy with money that should have enriched the nation, that is a destruction of our basic infrastructure which is now in a state of deterioration.

    The contract with the people is broken.

  4. Yeah the locusts are eating away at Europe too :( The only thing that could stop these international players is the law, but they keep buying up the lawmakers and perverting the law to suit their ends…

  5. DeVaul

    Each time I saw Almadoodah talk on TV, my first thought was: “This man is sane.” It does not surprise me that he would be “trounced” by religious fanatics who are outraged by the behavior of other religious fanatics from another country nearby. Sane people are always kicked aside by religious fanatics, so now it will be Bibi versus Khomeni. That means war.

    I said it once, and I will say it again: Wu Wei was lying to us about all Iranians wanting their supreme leader “overthrown” and their country invaded. They now want to punish America, not be invaded by it. Khomeni wants to punish America and Israel, so his chosen candidates won the election by a landslide. This is what I meant by Wu Wei not having any credibility left, although I am sure he will profit on his oil plays.

    Anyone involved in oil commodity trading wants war, but they don’t understand how it can spiral out of control and destroy the very commodity they are trading (on paper, and in real life when the oil fields go up in flames). Warmongers and clever traders think they will clean up or achieve total victory before the flames of war reach them. They will not.

    They are all greedy idiots.

  6. Alstradomus

    Elaine you are so right! The policy in the past was to kill the Muslims directly.Just like Hitler , that wasn’t fast enough so let’s get the Muslims to help us by also killing each other (Iran Iraq war). Not fast enough we want to nuke ‘em so let’s say they are gonna nuke us, then the genocide will be complete. As we dance around our Golden calf (Israel) what is that I see! Someone coming down from the mountain.We first must finish the calf, the Temple in Jerusalem.Funny the altar is ready for sacrifice at the same time the eclipsed moon on the day of winter solstice ( December 21 2010) appeared visble in the USA, just like the Mayan priest would cut out the heart of the sacrifice and hold it up for all to see.

  7. @Being There, our disagreement might be only semantic. :) ‘Nation’ has a few different meanings. If someone asks you “What’s your nationality?” do you take that to mean “Which country do you have citizenship in?” or something else?

    I like “Government of the people, for the people, by the people,” but if someone wanted to rewrite it as “of the American people, for the American people…” I’d be nervous. Because not everybody considers “The American people” and “The American citizens” to mean the same thing.

  8. chop

    The real reason for high gas prices has nothing to do with supply and demand, but is due to the weakening of the dollar, says Ben Swann.

    This interestingvideo demonstrates the full impact of Jim Sinclair’s “Currency Induced Cost Push Inflation”. Here is the link:

    Ben Swann: The Fiat Dollar is the Real Reason for High Gas Prices

  9. Lolyalty to race and loyalty to religion are the two innoculants that prevent exploitation by powerful outsiders. If you hae no group loyalties or higher ideals, you are just an isolated individual who can be controlled by those with the money, power, and group connections.

    If you argue for the dilution of racial and religious identity in America today, you are a Zionist stooge, plain and simple.

    Isrealis have loyalty to both race and religion, for example, probably more than anyone else. Yet to even notice that fact makes you “anti-semitic”. You see the mental trick they are playing?

    Elaine is at least consistent, by denouncing ALL racism and religious loyalty, the worst of which is Zionism. Most Leftists are mindless Zion-bots, who stupidly reject their own White racial/religious loyalty, but affirm such chauvanism in every other people.

  10. Paul S

    Elaine: your commentary here illustrates, imho, just how important it is for a tiny elite to have an iron grip of control on media outlets. Without dissenting voices in the media, the elites can pick and choose what stories to cover, what stories to not cover and most importantly of all, HOW stories are covered. The NAZI’s had a deep understanding of how effective propaganda and controlling the media could be; it’s why they put so much effort into achieving it. It’s also why the first “enemies” the NAZI’s targeted were teachers–people who might tell the truth, might teach their students critical thinking skills.

  11. Alstradomus

    Darkness is spreading like a spot on the sun…so the dead are the living in the age of the gun…as everyone clamours for the justice they seek..the Word is corrupted and the strong take the weak..Your future is managed and your freedom’s a joke.. you can’t tell the difference as you put on the yoke..the less that you know ,the more you fall into place.. just a cog in the wheel , there’s no soul in your face.. run for cover their millinium’s here , bearing the standard of confusion and fear.. speading like wildfire falling like rain, though they may promise, they only bring PAIN…. by Kansas

  12. ‘Paul S
    March 5, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Elaine: your commentary here illustrates, imho, just how important it is for a tiny elite to have an iron grip of control on media outlets……….’

    Do you know Katherine Graham is Jewish? That the NY Times owner/ Chief are both Jewish?
    At one point [and maybe today] all 3 networks had a Jewish President.

  13. All I can say to this is WOWO WOW O WOWO WOW:

    ‘Many years ago before Zionists bought and took over and destroyed the Atlantic Monthly, I read it. 12 years ago, they even had an open website and I was allowed to run a section of it, examining politics.

    Until…I wrote the fatal five letter word when that year, Zionists infiltrated the place and began censoring people. Naturally, I was instantly banished. As I was, at the same time, banished from the Democratic Underground where I cross-posted stuff.
    The DU censors explained that no one was allowed to discuss AIPAC or Jewish influence in DC since it didn’t matter and anyone doing this was antisemitic.’

    DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, LIKE THE HORRIBLY MISNAMED
    ANTI DEFAMATION LEAGUE…..It should be called’ Defamation League’.

  14. “Israel: how does tiny Israel control America? The honesty is refreshing. But you have to answer it yourself – and the answer is disquieting.

    Countless Jews all over the Western World are basically just Israelis. And their wealth is used to win elections that further Israel’s interests.

    Israel is a not a tiny Nation but a mighty Nation without borders.

    Who said a Nation had to be bounded geographically? That’s mechanical Newtonian thinking. Moreover, Zionist Founding Fathers Theordore Herzl and Chaim Weitzman said it first.
    We need borders. But the Jews do not. I never denied they were an amazing people. They are and we need to be on our guard against them.”

  15. Alstradomus

    Remember the Benjamin Frankin prophecy “If we do not limit Jewish immigration , in two hundred years they will rule our children”. The Zionist owned media will tell you that that is a false quote, but remember they also told us that the” Protocol of the Elders of Zion” was also false. . All Zionists are not Jews and all Jews are not Zionists. The real adversary is the Ziomason movement, I call it the system of Lavah( the word in Hebrew is the root word of Leviathan).

  16. See that is what Elaine is talking about. Suddenly AIPAC/the Zionists/neocons = “the Jews”. The truth is different.

  17. Chris Hedges gave a very good speech recently where he touches upon several of the issues we have been discussing here lately:

    Here is the link, with an excerpt below:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30719.htm

    snip:

    “What is being done in Gaza, the world’s largest open-air prison, is a pale reflection of what is slowly happening to the rest of us. It is a window into the rise of the global security state, our new governing system that the political philosopher Sheldon Wolin calls “inverted totalitarianism.” It is a reflection of a world where the powerful are not bound by law, either on Wall Street or in the shattered remains of the countries we invade and occupy, including Iraq with its hundreds of thousands of dead. And one of the greatest purveyors of this demented ideology of violence for the sake of violence, this flagrant disregard for the rule of domestic and international law, is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC.

    I spent seven years in the Middle East. I was the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times. I lived for two of those seven years in Jerusalem. AIPAC does not speak for Jews or for Israel. It is a mouthpiece for right-wing ideologues, some of whom hold power in Israel and some of whom hold power in Washington, who believe that because they have the capacity to war wage they have a right to wage war, whose loyalty, in the end, is not to the citizens of Israel or Palestine or the United States but the corporate elites, the defense contractors, those who make war a business, those who have turned ordinary Palestinians, Israelis and Americans, along with hundreds of millions of the world’s poor, into commodities to exploit, repress and control.

    We have not brought freedom, democracy and the virtues of Western civilization to the Muslim world. We have brought state terrorism, massive destruction, war and death. There is no moral distinction between a drone strike and the explosion of the improvised explosive device, between a suicide bombing and a targeted assassination. We have used the iron fist of the American military to implant our oil companies in Iraq, occupy Afghanistan and ensure that the Muslim world remains submissive and compliant. We have supported a government in Israel that has carried out egregious war crimes in Lebanon and Gaza and is daily stealing larger and larger portions of Palestinian land. We have established a network of military bases, some the size of small cities, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Kuwait, and we have secured basing rights in the Gulf states of Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and the United Arab Emirates. We have expanded our military operations to Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Egypt, Algeria and Yemen. And no one believes, except perhaps us, that we have any intention of leaving.

    And let us not forget that deep inside our secret world of offshore penal colonies, black sites, and torture and interrogation centers, we practice the cruelty and barbarity that always accompanies unchecked imperial power. There were scores of graphic pictures and videos from the prison in Abu Ghraib that were swiftly classified and hidden from public view. And in these videos, as Seymour Hersh reported, mothers who were arrested with their young sons, often children, watched in horror as their boys were repeatedly sodomized. This was filmed. And on the soundtrack you hear the boys shrieking. And the mothers were smuggling notes out to their families saying, “Come and kill us because of what is happening.”

    We are the biggest problem in the Middle East. It is we who legitimize the Mahmoud Ahmadinejads, suicide bombers and radical jihadists. The longer we drop iron fragmentation bombs and seize Muslim land, the longer we kill with impunity, the more these monsters, reflections of our own distorted image, will proliferate.”

    cont…

  18. JT

    @chop

    The dollar is the weakest in it’s history.
    Chinese are buying cars like crazy.
    Peak oil was 2 years ago.
    Draghi and Bernanke are printing money like there’s no tomorrow.
    Speculators have 10x world gdp of funny money to play with and nothing real to park their money in.
    US and Israel are about to attack Iran.

    Take your pick.
    I think supply/demand is down due to slowing economy and oil really is surprisingly cheap at the moment.

    I think the 2009 low in oil price will not come back ever again.

  19. CK

    Oil is currently very very cheap ( cheapest its ever been ) … if you buy it with gold.
    It’s nice to have actual physical gold.
    Shiny shiny bright and clean the only real money.

  20. Not everybody can have physical gold. The above fact is the doom for the US petrodollar, and thus the US.

  21. JT

    @christian w

    That was a great link.
    one of the best writings I’ve read in months.

    The system is so corrupt it cannot be fixed.
    What would have to happen for US politicians to pass a law that says:
    “I really should punish myself for taking bribes.” :D

    @CK

    you cannot buy oil with gold.

  22. CK

    @JT:
    Yes you can. It might take a few minutes of searching, but there are folks who will sell you crude for gold, refinery run for gold, heating oil for gold, barrels or gallons of gasoline for gold. Approx 10 mgram/gallon or 420 gallons/troy oz of 24k AU.
    @Chris: Anyone who wishes to may have physical gold. If you are prudent about your acquisitions you may have as much as you can purchase with no one being any the wiser.

  23. The UK is another prime example of the clandestine ‘privatization’ (looting) being done, both under the Tories and Labour.

    From the Guardian:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/05/police-privatisation-recast-common-sense?commentpage=5#start-of-comments

    “This much is obvious. The growth of a huge shadow state, manned by private firms and built on monopoly contracts, has proceeded by increments. First came the utilities; then carefully chosen parts of health, then education, along with a ragbag of stuff usually grouped under “back office” and “support services”. Then, slightly longer ago than you might think, the divide between the most elemental parts of the state and the private sector began to corrode.

    “As any politics undergraduate knows, this is how hegemony works. Almost silently, yesterday’s insane scheme becomes today’s matter of dull inevitability. In Westminster, policy wonks and thrusting politicians are so close to the cutting edge that when they alight on a supposedly visionary idea, much of their work is devoted to how to roll it out so that precious few people even notice. There is something of the frog-in-boiling-water about this: the privatising of everything (and I chose that last word carefully) proceeds so insidiously that by the time people fully grasp what’s happening, it’s far, far too late.”

  24. JT

    @CK

    I meant oil producing states.
    I have no doubt that secret deals are made.

    How long do you think it would take for all the gold in the US to end up in Iran, Saudi-Arabia and Russia if you paid for oil with it?
    728 million gallons per day lets say half imported.
    1 billion dollars per day.
    16 tons of gold per day.

    It would take about 2 years and all the gold in the US would be gone.

  25. Also from the Guardian. George Monbiot (who seems sane when he doesn’t talk about nuclear power or environmentalism) comments on Ayn Rand. He sums her up quite well:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/05/new-right-ayn-rand-marx

    “It has a fair claim to be the ugliest philosophy the postwar world has produced. Selfishness, it contends, is good, altruism evil, empathy and compassion are irrational and destructive. The poor deserve to die; the rich deserve unmediated power. It has already been tested, and has failed spectacularly and catastrophically. Yet the belief system constructed by Ayn Rand, who died 30 years ago today, has never been more popular or influential.

    Rand was a Russian from a prosperous family who emigrated to the United States. Through her novels (such as Atlas Shrugged) and her nonfiction (such as The Virtue of Selfishness) she explained a philosophy she called Objectivism. This holds that the only moral course is pure self-interest. We owe nothing, she insists, to anyone, even to members of our own families. She described the poor and weak as “refuse” and “parasites”, and excoriated anyone seeking to assist them. Apart from the police, the courts and the armed forces, there should be no role for government: no social security, no public health or education, no public infrastructure or transport, no fire service, no regulations, no income tax.

    Atlas Shrugged, published in 1957, depicts a United States crippled by government intervention in which heroic millionaires struggle against a nation of spongers. The millionaires, whom she portrays as Atlas holding the world aloft, withdraw their labour, with the result that the nation collapses. It is rescued, through unregulated greed and selfishness, by one of the heroic plutocrats, John Galt.

    The poor die like flies as a result of government programmes and their own sloth and fecklessness. Those who try to help them are gassed. In a notorious passage, she argues that all the passengers in a train filled with poisoned fumes deserved their fate. One, for instance, was a teacher who taught children to be team players; one was a mother married to a civil servant, who cared for her children; one was a housewife “who believed that she had the right to elect politicians, of whom she knew nothing”.

    Rand’s is the philosophy of the psychopath, a misanthropic fantasy of cruelty, revenge and greed. Yet, as Gary Weiss shows in his new book, Ayn Rand Nation, she has become to the new right what Karl Marx once was to the left: a demigod at the head of a chiliastic cult. Almost one third of Americans, according to a recent poll, have read Atlas Shrugged, and it now sells hundreds of thousands of copies every year.

    cont…

  26. JT

    Atlas Shrugged the bible for psychopaths and narsicists.

    It cannot be true that 1/3 americans have read it. :D

  27. @CK

    An individual having a bit of gold means nothing. And there isn’t enough gold to go around for all individuals even in the US alone, let alone the western world or the world at large if you want to use it as a viable currency.

    The amount of physical gold is so small that it would be easy for a major player or a monopoly or two to suck up all the lose individual gold in exchange for oil, or simply under force. Just inflate the price in gold for oil or other commodities needed for survival and the job will soon be done. Or make trade with gold illegal for private citizens.

  28. @JT

    I know young kids (around 20) in the US who swear by it. It would be easy to think it is just their young age and ignorance, but the problem is that they actually believe it.

    How on earth has such nonsense been promoted so heavily that it is a normal topic of conversation in the US, even among young kids and students? The level of right wing brain washing is downright scary. But then again what do you expect with a far right wing MSM trumpeting nonsense daily.

  29. Guess Atlas Shrugged will be seen as the equivalent to the Mao’s little red book, once the American (right) counter revolution (of the progressive ideas of the last century) crashes the US to ashes.

  30. JT

    @christian w

    Do you mean that there are professors and teachers who promote that crap?

  31. No, I guess they just pick it up themselves, there is a lot of discussion about it on all kinds of forums when the young American kids talk about politics.

  32. A friend of mine here ordered Atlas Shrugged from Amazon because someone she knew in the States insisted she should read it… When I saw the book I wondered what she was doing with crap like that, but I don’t think she ever read it properly.

  33. Being There

    Ayn Rand was a cult leader who’s big acolyte was Alan Greenspan and boy did he ever make a mess out of us, but the real destructive force of ideology was Milton Friedman of the Chicago School of Business who developed neoliberalism.

    Not to be confused with progressives, this is about liberalized free markets-a return to laissez faire economomy masqurading as neo classic economics.

    He received a Nobel prize for his attempt at defining economics as a science and not a social science.

    Well, if you read Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine, the rise of Disaster Capitalism”, you will get a great picture of exactly what’s been going on in Europe with the rampant privatization and the impoverishment of the falling middle class.

    They started out with Allende’s overthrow in the Chilean Coup (’72) as their “laboratory” through Nixon’s White House and are still practicing this horror through both Democratic and Republican administrations.
    In short, they know how to make a killing on disasters and by-god they can create their own through war. It’s way worse than Ayn Rand, trust me on that.

    As they say in the fog of war you can steal anything….

  34. JT

    @christian w

    Well I’m not quite as worried as you.

    When you realize that you can’t get a job and have a 100 000 dollar student loan you will figure out quite fast that you are not going to become a visionary capitalist anytime soon.
    I think they will shake it quite quickly.

    I googled it a bit.
    This made me laugh.
    “You have to be extremely talented to understand Atlas Shrugged.” :D .

  35. adam mateyko

    AIPAC here AIPAC there, AIPAC everywhere… la de da da….. like the air we breath. Why? The YAHweh entity of the Hebrew bible seems to have a grip on western christian, and muslim minds. Who is this guy and why are his predictions so empowering that nations bow down to the High Priests of this idea?

    Are we so muddled and such buffoons that we will sacrifice our children, like JOB was told to do? Are we slaves of the idea of subservience, for some kind of later reward. The perversion of the original stories and tenants of the Egyptian book of the dead, which came long before this entity reared its head; expounded on the natural ideas/laws of just reward (and punishment) and that ones entire life was lived in preparation for that judgement day. Let the feather weigh against the heart of those who seek war. Its a heart of lead.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maat

  36. DeVaul

    Atlas Shrugged and other stupid novels like that will be used as firewood to warm our hands in the ruined ashes and rubble of our once great cities. Like the Germans before us, this psychotic ideology will die the only way it can die, when those who swear by it have all died from the wars they started.

    If Ann Rand’s mother had been a true believer, she would have tossed Ann right out into a pond after she was born. Babies are just worthless parasites, according to Randians, so why waste time on them at all?

    The philosophy of Ann Rand will not last since it violates every law of nature, and in the end, the laws of nature reign supreme. No human law ever superceded a law of nature, and none ever will.

  37. I read Atlas Shrugged and for a brief moment thought it had a brilliant concept. But then I learned about his thing called Love, and all its many forms. The Objectivist philosophy falls apart pretty quickly when you approach it from the strongest of concepts, that of Love. It is sad how Atlas Shrugged is the new Bible, when their are books out there preaching the most beautiful messages, with way more thought put into them, and actually brilliant writing and stories. Atlas Shrugged is really a terrible book, especially when you take it is a literary work. Just pulp. Imagine how the world would look if the writings of Frank Herbert in the Dune Chronicles were the new bible, instead of Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged. He was one of those kooky guys saying how we could be saved by one thing only, LOVE. And he wrote one of the finest pieces of literature ever to support and express this idea. But humanity always seems to pursue the selfish route and seems to have a loathing of the truth.

  38. For years I kept re-reading Herbert’s Dune novels once a year. :)

  39. JT

    As a kid I read:
    The Famous Five books, White Fang and other Jack London books, all Tarzan and Barsoom books, Lord of the Rings and every science fiction novel I could find in the local library.
    Asimov, Clarke…

    I just read some of the Foundation series again last summer.
    Wasn’t too bad, stood the test of time pretty well.

    I turned out to be a totally ordinary finn even though reading all that sci-fi.

  40. CK

    @JT:
    I think you are confusing the ” official government untruths” regarding the amount of gold the US government holds with the amount of physical gold that individuals might have in their possession. To be brutal about it, the US government is an irrelevancy to anyone not in debt.
    @chris: Mr. Monbiot, as so many others, having not read her writings is absolutely qualified to opine about her writings. Her theory has never been tested/implented/tried anywhere, and having never been tested has neither failed nor succeeded. Rand was the daughter of a jewish pharmacist. Her family was exporpriated during the bolshevik revolution. She came to the USA. She worked in Hollywood. She wrote the most successful novel by any female author anwhere ever. She lived a feminist life before feminism was even a word. She died after a long and happy life.
    The rest of your description of Atlas Shrugged is politically correct to the max. But to be precise she only claimed that government goons were parasites. She never claimed that the working poor were parasites.
    Atlas Shrugged portrays a world where the ” heroic capitalists” have walked away. They no longer are interersted in being sacrifices to others. Other than that you have the basic misunderstandings of her writings.
    For that famous train in the tunnel sequence, you managed to omit the fact that the train was ordered by an armed government goon to run through the tunnel even after the goon was told by the engineers that it was murder to do so. That catalogue of folks who died as the result of a government agent’s order is just that … a catalogue of the victims of government.
    Unfortunately, she was not a libertarian nor a believer in society. She believed in government. She believed that the USA should have nuked the USSR. It is a shame that for all her ideas, she was at heart a statist.
    @JT Probably more than 1/3 of all Americans have looked at the book. It is a long work and written at a level requiring at least a 1950’s level college education. ( That translates into a MS level today unless one majors in the STEM areas).
    Not a work with 20 minutes of commercials for every 40 minutes of content.
    It is what it is. The one thing it isn’t is a bible.
    JT there are professors in the USA who will spout any inanity for money, they are the educational equivalents of Newt Ginggrinch. There are very few professors who will do anything intellectually brave.

    @Chris: If you truly believe that having gold means nothing, then by all means do not have any. I am a firm believer in folks doing what they believe and living with the consequences of their actions. Not all the individuals want gold, so there is always enough for those who do. For any one to buy all the gold would be difficult. Those who do not believe in fiat currency are probably not going to trade gold for any amount of fake paper. Force of course is the perview of the governmental goons and thugs. The folks who believe in Gold have already seen how the government handled the first American Gold Theft by FDR. It is dubious that any will turn in their gold again.

  41. Alstradomus

    Hey JT Iread all the Tarzan books when I was a kid. My dad had read them and I found hem in his bookshelf, I loved them

  42. seraphim

    I don’t want to look nasty but Ayn Rand was as “Russian” as Bibi Netanyahu.
    Her real name was Alysia Zinovievna Rosenbaum. In her youth she was a little bolshevik but after she landed in America she morphed into the first neo-con.

  43. larry, dfh


    This
    timely article explains how it happened. I went yesterday (Sunday) to the Code Pink protest, from 7:00 A.M. ’till about 11:30, along the sidewalk to the D.C. Convention Center, where the AIPAC meeting was held. There were thousands of attendees, many of the men wore the little doily-type yarmulke, and nearly every woman was wearing spike heels. The only negative confrontations that I saw showed a really strong factual inaccuracy in the minds of the AIPACers. One guy yelled at us to “go visit the Iranian Embassy up the street”; there is no such place, as we don’t currently have diplomatic relations with Iran. Another guy told us to “take our bibles to Saudi Arabia and see what you get, assholes!”, apparently unaware that Saudi Arabia is allied w/Israel as far as Iran is concerned. I shouldn’t have expected anything better from fanatics.

  44. JT

    @CK

    “It is a long work and written at a level requiring at least a 1950′s level college education. ( That translates into a MS level today unless one majors in the STEM areas).”

    What does that mean?
    Do people really believe that they are exceptionally talented if they can finish one book with many pages?

    “Atlas Shrugged portrays a world where the ” heroic capitalists” have walked away. They no longer are interersted in being sacrifices to others.”

    After the horrors of world war II?
    Someone wrote a book about heroic war profiteers as victims?

    I think it has this status because it’s the only book in the world that promotes this view.

  45. Gawd Help US! AIPAC and AYN!

    Ayn Rand – Jewish Virtual Library
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Rand.html
    The life and work of Ayn Rand, the novelist and philosopher who promoted an … an atheist in her early teens, and while she never denied her Jewish heritage………………………………………………………………………..

  46. JT

    “Most critics found the premise of the novel-that the most gifted, creative, and successful members of a society are exploited by the untalented and unappreciative masses—only slightly less implausible than the major action of the novel, a strike of geniuses to force an end to their abuse.”

    An extraordinarily stupid book and the only of its kind.
    Liked because US citizens perhaps needed something to ease their guilt about being the only country in the world not destroyed in WWII?
    Liked by young people because they want to be like Paris Hilton.

    The conclusion empathy and morality are character flaws.

    I give up. :D

  47. I think DeVaul is right about Rand, that her ideas ultimately don’t work. Human beings are social animals for a reason. But I do worry about the people who turn those ideas into viable-sounding academic theories. They’re the ones who can make privatizing your police force sound almost reasonable. Unfortunately the business schools are crowded with them.

  48. Being There

    Ok guys, I know you didn’t respond to the Milton Friedman post I made but he’s the one responsible for educating students from all over the country and the world in neoliberal economics. That is no barriers to entry, low taxes and no regulations. Oh-and the Market will self correct! You know the ole’ invisible hand. Well the Market is made up of irrational human beings!

    It is known that in the end of Ayn Rand’s life, when she fell ill, she was very happy to be on medicare and collect social security.

    There is a letter recently found on exiledonline that describes a letter written by the Koch brothers to Fredrich Von Hyak, another of these professors at Chicago who went back to Austria. They promised him that since he taught in the US, he could receive medicare in the case of illness when he was here as a guest lecturer for them.

    These posers who’s ideas are ruining the lives of millions thought they were alone entitled to govt. hand-outs as they call it for all others. They are the biggest bs artists and snake oil salesman sending civilization over the cliff!

  49. JT

    @CK

    “I think you are confusing the ” official government untruths” regarding the amount of gold the US government holds with the amount of physical gold that individuals might have in their possession.”

    What do you think that happens to the price of gold when the Gold Funds collapse?
    When people notice that they are all ponzi schemes and you cannot get your money or any gold from those bets?

    It collapses and the price collapses with it.

  50. emsnews

    The rich NEVER cared about peasants. The ancient joke about ‘The peasants are revolting’ (that is, disgusting) is a pun on elitist positions. I am the end result of many generations (1,000 years) of being an elite, not a peasant.

    I revolted against this and am now a peasant and frankly, love being a peasant most of the time so long as I can be a pissed off peasant.

    The lesson the elites forget is, even after 1,000 years, one can end up a peasant!!!

    The pissants who run things today are generally only two or three generations from being peasants and have a lot of shame of their past so they fix this by being really nasty towards other people stuck in the peasant category.

    The new rich many of whom come from ghetto stock in Europe, are very scared of losing power so they think, if only they can CRUSH the damn peasants totally, then they can rule as aliens and get away with murder all the time!

    But a lesson from the dark past: old elites in France or England remember the peasant uprisings. They CAN and DO rise up suddenly and very violently.

    This is why the remaining royals in Europe try to not isolate themselves too much. Living in huge palaces is guaranteed to cause eventual uprisings and England teeters on this today due to the royals being reckless and letting themselves hang out nearly exclusively with rich people who give them ‘gifts’ while at the same time, demanding more money from the peasants who are experiencing social service cuts.

  51. emsnews

    The very rich are living in huge palaces. They are increasingly isolated. Their refusal to pay for government services is driving many countries into bankruptcy and this emphatically is aimed at the two countries deepest in debt: the US and Japan.

    The elites of both nations refuse to pay their own way, big time. Japan is passively dying but the US is heading towards armed insurrection. If the US military suddenly decides to loot the rich here, they will and I predict, they MUST.

    If the rich won’t tax themselves, this leaves only one solution: armed rebellion. The rich hope the military and police will attack fellow Christians. THIS WON’T HAPPEN.

    When the Tea Party demonstrated, the rightwing military and police left them entirely untouched. When the left demonstrates, they attack. The Jews running our media and AIPAC running Congress think they will get to do whatever they want and these Christian cops and military will follow orders.

    THIS IS FALSE. The right won’t attack fellow fascists who are Christian. So, if Christian fascists attack the Jewish fascists, they will win, hands down, quite suddenly. In less than 24 hours. Jewish ownership of the media will collapse instantly when armed men invade the headquarters and arrest the owners and editors.

    Just for example. We know how this happens because we saw how it happened in Germany. Germany had a very large atheist sector, a vibrant Jewish community and was internationalist.

    Then they lost WWI, this collapsed. Look: the US lost the Vietnam War. We lost the Iraq war (we won the start but lost the end) and we certainly lost the Afghan war, big time and it is only a matter of time when we depart with our tail between our legs.

    Our military cannot tolerate these losses. The Christian troops who died, died for nothing. The dreams of revenge turned bitter. This nagging bitterness due to the diplomats losing our wars will turn on the diplomats who are either Zionists or in the pay of Israel and this turning will be sudden, vicious and disastrous.

    I don’t want this to happen! But the Jewish Zionists seem hell bent on making certain this will happen.

  52. Alstradomus

    The Jewish Zionists #1 enemy will be the White supremeist faction of the neocons. If the story is true the “Jewish ” homeland was primarily founded so the Jews would get out of the countries that helped them get it. When all hell breaks loose,and it will, then the Jews will be blamed by the neocon white supremeists and the second holocaust will begin. The Mormons, Masons and God knows who else want a Temple on Temple Mount. Both in 2010 and 2011 the Orthodox Jewish Sanhedrin tried to ascend Temple Mount to sacrifice Passover lambs and they are trying again this year. Oh yeah Ayn Rand ‘s philosophies suck!

  53. CK

    Most critics did indeed dislike Ayn Rand’s works. Their dislike was based on the characterization of Ellsworth Toohey in the Fountainhead. The critics had no effect on the books sales when they were first released nor have the critics had much suceess in stopping the sales of her books since.
    Atlas Shrugged is a polemic wrapped in a sci fi novel. Her projections of the laws and behaviours of the US govt is sadly prescient. ( NDAA, Assassination of citizens on the sayso of a politician, Torture as state policy, unending wars of liberation sponsored by the govt, govt choosing which friends get money from the public purse for their “politically correct” energy projects, etc. etc. )
    She was born in 1905, so she was 12 when the bolshevik revolution happened. I doubt she was a major player in that revolution. She moved to the USA in 1926 ( that would make her 21). Again not a major bolshie.
    “The conclusion empathy and morality are character flaws.” where do you get this interpretation of her work? The conclusion is that man must have morality to live and for his work to have any value to others. Empathy aplenty in her works. JT I really think you should read the work instead of accepting some other critic’s agenda.
    @JT I am talking about gold the metal, do not confuse gold the metal with paper funds. The paper funds can collapse all they want, gold the metal still buys 400+ gallons of oil/oz. There is a difference between paper promises and gold the reality. Nothing happens to the value of gold when phony trading schemes collapse.
    Anyone who has paid into SS at gunpoint, which all of us who have been an employee in the USA have, have every right to attempt to get back what we have paid in. The baby boomers have paid more into SS and Medicare than any other group, and now we are taking out what we paid in, that was the deal signed at gunpoint. Ms Rand paid into SS for 40+ years ( royalties are taxable ).
    The peasants never care much about the elites either. There are always too few elites to have much effect on the hoi polloi. What is bothersome is that the rich can always buy the services of peasant goons to disrupt and destroy other peasants. The wonderous poor are always willing to sell out each other, this is especially obvious in a democracy.
    @EMS:
    The commetariat is over 80% israeli firsters. The editorial pages of the two national newscrappers are uniformly israeli. What else do you expect?

  54. JT

    @CK

    “Nothing happens to the value of gold when phony trading schemes collapse.”

    No? Where is the value of gold determined?
    How many bancors or yuan is your gold worth if the dollar goes?

    I do not have a clue, do you?
    (I have some physical gold that I bought in 2009, to be honest, but I think it might collapse right away if interest rates rise for example)

  55. JT

    @CK

    Man should take responsibility for his own life and welfare.
    But that is not nearly enough for us who are lucky and more fortunate than many others.
    It’s a cheap trick.

  56. Alstradomus

    When the solid waste hits the wind propulsion device the man with the gold will not rule, the man with the lead will rule!

  57. CK

    @JT:
    The value of gold is determined by the two people trading it.
    The gold you have will not be any less gold if interest rates change or paper money changes colours. Folks will still trade real stuff for real gold, the paper bourses and the pol’s promises will not be relevant.
    Why is someone else’s need a claim on you? All the tears and all the threats in the world will not turn the paper in your wallet into a loaf of bread if the bakers decide they want something real for their efforts. The withdrawal of your sanction is all that is necessary. Maybe in your world there are no moochers, no parasites, no thugs. In the USA those three groups are the elite.
    When you say luck, do you mean probability that which dooms gamblers to always lose in the long run but allows that some nights they go home ahead? Or do you mean the workings of some unknowable fate, some religion or God that capriciously rewards some folks and dooms others to a life of food stamps and subsidized children? Or something else?
    @Alstra: Ah mankind red in tooth and claw. Shoot first and devil eat the rumproast. The hoardes will come spilling out of the cities the day the EBT/foodstamps stop and they will “take your stuff and rape your pets and eat your wimmenfilk.” The man with the lead will be backshot, sniped by better marksmen, burned out of his bunker and roasted because he has nothing else to offer. If you think that all it takes to survive is a gun you are an american idiot. Or to put it another way, where does the gunpowder come from after you have shot your last shot? Where comes the lead and the primers and the brass? Who fixes your reloading equipment when it breaks?
    If there comes a major disruption of the sort that shuts down the digital/oil society we currently enjoy. You are going to need about 9 months of supplies and a place a long ways from any of the flow lines ( interstates and main state highwas ) to lay low. After 9 months without food and without energy and without fresh water, the mass of urban folks will be decomposed corpses. It will be a damn harsh world but the parasites will be mostly gone and the pols and other non productive will be moldering waste.
    Or
    You could find others of like mind and like character to yourself and develop a resilient community. A place where moral productive honest folks thrive. It will not be a very diverse place. but it will be a fine starting point to redo the world; you might even name it Galt’s Gulch if you don’t mind a wee bit of intellectual plagarism.

  58. Alstradomus

    I do not own an arsenal. When the NRA called to warn me about Obama I told them my kingdom is not of this world therefore I do not have to fight, something I heard from that Jesus guy.

  59. JT

    @CK

    “You could find others of like mind and like character to yourself and develop a resilient community.”

    I live in a resilient community.
    We all mooch.

  60. emsnews

    The inner city people don’t know how to AIM and shoot. Whereas I live in ‘one shot/one kill’ land and this is due to us all shooting frequently. We discovered over the years that the ability to shoot accurately doesn’t disappear even if one doesn’t shoot every weekend like my husband and I did.

    I also used to do championship level archery for years and years and did this with medieval bows which we made, ourselves.

    We also know how to make gunpowder from raw materials and we built cannons, too. I still have a small cannon.

    The countryside folk like where I live would swiftly band together to patrol. In NYC, I formed a patrol back when the city went bankrupt and we were left to the mercy of the gangs. We successfully drove back the gangs and it involved in several cases, hand combat and of course, we patrolled with dogs and weapons even as mayor Beame yelled at us..

    Yes, people can suddenly change from passive victims to fighting back…IF there is a leader. Someone who is brave enough to stand and fight.

    I have noticed over the decades the ‘stand by me’ ethos has turned into the Rambo single hero that murderously takes revenge and rescues people. This is anti-populace and is all about singularity rather than organizing the masses to work in harmony towards some goal.

  61. Alstradomus

    The use of lead as a survival asset is more in line with the intent of my comment. It is usually assumed that that type of rhetoric means killing one another to survive.If we slide into a zero tech world of anarchy, hunting down your food will keep you alive. Even if you had a fortune in gold there will be no place to buy groceries.

  62. CK

    “We also know how to make gunpowder from raw materials and we built cannons, too.” And here I thought that all the cannon foundries in Berlin had closed, and the sulfur and saltpeter mines too. Having a cannon does not mean that you built it, just that you traded something with someone else for it.
    The ability to shoot well does depend on ones eyesight. Carrots become a survival staple for the sharpshooter.
    The countryside folk around you cannot even begin to agree on how to handle the deterioration of Berlin NY without there being a grid down situation to contend with. Most of the productive people from towns like Berlin have moved on. Closed the small businesses, closed the local mills and moved to somewhere with fewer parasites. The folks that remain run Tattoo parlours, pizza joints, video rental places and that bastion of new american wealth The Dollar Store.
    Mostly the folks around you who don’t have anything stockpiled because they are living from debt payment to debt payment will be at your door looking for your stockpiles. They will band together to devour the seed corn because that is what democracies do.
    The small town ethos you are picturing only works in non diverse places that still produce and trade value. The more diversity the less fellow feeling and the less willingness to be part of a demos.
    @Alstra Lead is a survival asset for exactly two reasons, the ability to form bullets, the ability to make a crude lead acid battery ( if you know how to make acid and acid resistant containers ). I am glad for you that your kingdom is not of this earth. Depending on how soon you wish to relocate there, you may want to re-evaluate your conclusion about figthing. If your god is personal negation, the kingdom of heaven awaits hungrily.
    There is always a way to trade.

  63. JT

    Here every man goes to the army and learns to shoot.
    I have a gold marksman pin from the army.

    We had this type of thing in the 1800th century:

    Puukkojunkkaris were present in all society classes. They included both free houseowners and farm servants. The houseowners were often gang leaders. Puukkojunkkaris were often feared and respected, and fought for their honour. The code of honour disallowed fear and respected fighting. Puukkojunkkaris were often difficult to prosecute because few people dared testify against them. Puukkojunkkaris also received admiration and respect because they dared to stand up against society and authorities.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puukkojunkkari

    This was one of the leaders:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antti_Isotalo

    People here still love them as folkheroes.

    They just realeased a new film this spring.

  64. CK

    @JT:
    I believe Switzerland has the same requirements for its citizens. Plus requiring them to keep their automatic weapons and ammo in their homes.
    It is good to know that at least a few places in this world understand that the citizenry should be as well armed as the thugs/government.
    A well armed society is a polite society.
    Gun control is only hitting what you are aiming at.
    At the shooting range the other day I was checking out a new Barrett 50 the owners had on sale. Large, loud and single shot. 2.5 oz of gold. Porbably going to add a dedicated fishing bow this year.
    Some folks in the USA still revere Billy the Kid, The James Bros, The Purple Gang, Bonnie and Clyde, John Dillinger, Albert Anastasia, Lucky Luciano and Myer Lansky. Killer and thieves are role models for many, else they would not go into government employment.

  65. You only have to look at Russia for a recent example of what happens when society and the law wobbles. The Oligarch personalities and Mafias will run the show. Putin put a stop to that (in a way).

    The problem with thinking guns can protect you is that there is always someone stronger than you, or better armed, or more ruthless, or more backstabbing.

    I can easily forsee a future for the US where veterans create armed gangs, for example. Historically, up until very recently, everybody used to go about armed. That didn’t stop violence, on the contrary.

  66. CK

    @Chris:
    You might want to read some of the written history of the old US West.
    Among the settlers it was quite peaceable. As the Indians were defeated and killed, the peaceability increased. True there were a few Gunfights at the OK corral type of incident, but those were noteworthy for there rarity.
    The Penny Dreadfulls had to write about the dangers of the west because writing the truth about sodbusters and shopkeepers would not sell jackshit on the newstands back east.
    Being visibly armed introduces risk to those who would take from you what is yours. It is easier to steal from and eliminate the unarmed. You might be bat blind and useless with the pistol on your hip, but the other guy does not necessarily know that; you could also be the fastest thing on fur legs and accurate beyond the ken of mortal man. Better to go steal the wealth of the obviously unarmed.
    The US military has for the last 11 years been using the dregs of the street gangs to fill out their rosters. They did not prove to be willing cannon fodder, instead they appear to have learned tactics and weapon handling and the other military skills quite readily.
    As for the Russians, I have always thought that Gorbachev was the most successful American deep cover sleeper agent that ever there was and that Yeltsin was just as successful for the american interests. Putin I like. The man is a man and smarter than his american equivalents simultaneously. It is no wonder that the US establishment hates him with a quite passion.

  67. Christian W

    @CK

    The Indians were killed by better armed men invading their turf. My point is that you are more likely to be the Indians this time.

    That Barrett sniper rifle you were talking about is easily capable of killing someone from a distance of 1000m+. Even cheap old Mosin-Nagant’s can kill hit accurately enough at 400 m.

    I have a feeling a post-collapse society with too many people struggling for survival will be a lot nastier and more neurotic than the days of the wild west with settlers looking for a piece of land to farm or a job.

    @DeVaul

    The Finnish Civil War was a very traumatic business. Even today it isn’t really talked about in Finland. It definitely is not romanticized like the US Civil War is. I had ancestors on both sides of the conflict and those on the losing side (the reds) are only talked about in whispers and hints.

  68. JT

    @christian w

    “In the end, many of the moderate Finnish conservatives followed the thinking of Lauri Ingman, who wrote in spring 1918: “A political turn more to the right will not help us now, instead it would strengthen the support of socialism in this country.”
    Together with the other broader-minded Finns, the new partnership constructed a Finnish compromise which eventually delivered stable and broad parliamentary democracy. This compromise was based both on the defeat of Red Finland in the Civil War and the fact that most of the political goals of White Finland had not been achieved.
    After the foreign forces left Finland, the militant factions of the Red and the White lost their backup, while the pre-1918 cultural and national integrity, and the legacy of Fennomania, stood out among the Finns. The weakness of both Germany and Russia after World War I made a domestic Finnish political and social compromise possible. The reconciliation led to a slow and painful, but steady, national unification. In the end, the power vacuum and interregnum of 1917-1919 gave way to the Finnish compromise.
    From 1919 to 1991, the democracy and sovereignty of the Finns withstood challenges from right-wing and left-wing radicalism, the crisis of World War II, and pressure from the Soviet Union during the Cold War.”

    Yup. I doubt that any finn would recommend that shooting your countrymen is the answer to anything.

    Sticking together stuff has worked out far better for us.

  69. emsnews

    My family lived in the Wild West. My great granddaddy was a calvary officer in Arizona and Nebraska. The Wild West was very much out of control. My great grandma was a Temperance Union leader in old Arizona.

    She would literally whack the drunks with her umbrella.

    The military would move into town to enforce peace. This meant chasing out the crooks and gangs and shooting them dead in the desert. The enforcement of bar closings and drinkless Sundays were of high interest and it was the ladies who tamed the west.

    True story: my great grandmother was with her Indian Pima girl rescued from the Apaches, cooking up lye to wash the uniforms of the soldiers when some Indians came sneaking up and drank it and all of them died.

    My great grandfather used to say, ‘She killed more of them than I did.’

    This story isn’t PC but here is the truth: the Pima Indians LOVED my great grandparents and when I was a child, the http://www.tonation-nsn.gov/ O’odham in the Kitt Peak area wanted to negotiate with my dad because he was married to the daughter of Captain Pettit who rescued them from the ravages of the Apaches. Yes, the Indians fought each other a lot.

  70. CK

    @Chris:
    It is easy to imagine the bad. A look at Detroit can reinforce every bad feeling and belief one has. But then a look at Vermont or Montana or The Dakotas or Idaho or Maine can reinforce the obvious good things about humans and their ability to live and create a resilient society.
    I looked at the Barret and read the specs of the Barrett Semi Auto. Not going to buy either one. A bowfishing set is on my purchase agenda for this spring and a bench mill for the summer. FInally decided that trying to introduce a Bridgeport and 3 phase into the existing house was not efficient ( nor cheap ).
    Have been thinking about doing some snapper netting, another skill that is disappearing.
    The Indians were both outgunned and outgeneraled. The one supremely inept glory hound General Custer was beaten because he ignored his intelligence reports.
    In a griddown, while the masses from the cities might try to move out and steal from the countryside, they would not be facing underarmed or trusting Indians.

  71. JT

    @elaine

    “The enforcement of bar closings and drinkless Sundays were of high interest and it was the ladies who tamed the west.”

    I think it was the same here.

    If you let the men run the show it just naturally turns to boozing, fighting and shooting.

    My wife always says (after watching news from whatever hellhole is current..:)
    “Without women this planet would be just a big smouldering crater.”

    “As of 2012, there are 73 women (constituting 16.6% of all Representatives) serving in the House of Representatives.”

    Is that still true in the US? You have so few women in politics still?

    I just checked that here in the cabinet there are 9 women and 10 men.
    http://valtioneuvosto.fi/hallitus/jasenet/en.jsp

  72. JT

    http://suomenkuvalehti.fi/kuvat/2011/11/07/finance-economy-public-debt-eurozone-efsf-greece

    It was in the news that Evangelos Venizelos has lost 10 kg already in this crisis.
    He has to suck in the gut to impress the ladies?
    And that how Greece gets solved. :D

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