Sex Slaves: Fascist Denials About Blatant Rape In Japan And US

During WWII, the fascist imperialists in both Germany and Japan brutally enslaved captive populations, abused prisoners of war, forced their own people into death marches after trying desperately to annihilate various ethnic and religious populations.  Germany was punished for this and is shy about imperial fascism but Japan wasn’t punished nearly as severely.  Today, we have a war crimes court that goes exclusively after leaders of countries targeted by NATO and in particular, the US as ‘criminals’ while gross criminals supported by the US are not punished at all, instead, are coddled and protected.

 

The US has protected Japan from its own war crimes because we hated the Chinese who chose the communist solution.  That solution was bad in numerous ways.  But the US still continues to harry and harass China over the issue of civil rights while coddling Japan.  This year, the imperialists who have ruled Japan after the US occupation, have been in full bellow about WWII crimes claiming there were no crimes and demonizing South Korea and China, all over a dispute concerning some uninhabitable islands.

 

Here is the latest salvo from the politicians who work for the Japanese industrial elites:  There is no evidence that people called comfort women were taken away by force or threat by the Japanese military. If there is such evidence, South Korea should provide it. ‹ Japan Today

 

Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto, responding to South Korean President Lee Myung Bak’s demand that Japan apologize to Korean wartime sex slaves.

 

It is hard to have ‘evidence’ aside from the surviving women’s testimony and there is a lot of testimony, the ‘hard evidence’ was held by the imperial looters running Japan and they destroyed this evidence which the Nazis tried to do except the Russian swept in too fast to do it all completely.  The Japanese raped not just foreign women they conquered, they raped their own women with a fair degree of impunity.  The Nazis did this, too.  Any person living in either hellish empire was subject to being arrested if they appeared to be resisting the political aims of the empire and were tortured, raped and murdered.

 

The diplomatic warfare between Japan and its Asian victims heats up with little US intervention:  Japan, S Korea play hot potato with Noda’s protest letter ‹ Japan Today: 

 

Japan on Thursday refused to take back a letter sent by its own prime minister after Seoul said it would not accept delivery of the note, as a row over islands threatened to descend into diplomatic farce. It was the latest move in an increasingly bitter tit-for-tat dispute that has engulfed two of Asia’s largest economies for nearly two weeks.

 

The buying of government debts is all about trade issues and politics and all of Asia knows this while the US elites hide this fact from the public here even though all of this is used as a tool to decimate US jobs and control our government.  Azumi says no decision yet on buying S Korean debt which gives me mixed feelings.  China and ROK both buy Japanese government debt for currency/trade reasons.  So does Japan.  But to appear ‘patriotic’ they will slit their own economic wrists in this matter in order to grandstand in favor of military rape of captive civilian populations in the past!

 

The overt warmongering is increasing:  Magazine flirts with war scenario over Takeshima ‹ Japan Today: 

 

 South Korea’s president Lee Myung Bak has been like the proverbial terrier, nipping at Japan’s heels throughout the month of August. First over the Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ strong objections, he paid a visit to Takeshima (aka Dokdo in Korean) on Aug 8, and then upon his return, demanded that the emperor apologize for the wartime sex slaves.

 

Feelings are now running strong among the man on the street. In a survey of subscribers to the Nihon Keizai Shimbun’s electronic edition, for example, 90% of respondents stated they found Lee’s actions “inexcusable” and 30% said Japan should consider such economic sanctions as punitive tariffs.

 

“I don’t think President Lee’s incendiary actions were done merely to generate popularity at home,” opines author Yasushi Nishimuta. “He may be provoking Japan as a means of building rapport with the North Koreans. In any event, the postwar system that has been in place in Japan all these years is finally starting to break down.”

 

Should the territorial feud build up to a crescendo, the possibility of armed conflict cannot be ruled out. Asahi Geino (Aug 30) “opens the Pandora’s box” as it puts it, with the simulation of a military clash over Takeshima/Dokdo between the Korean armed forces and Japan’s Self Defense Forces.

 

All of our ‘allies’ in Asia are in a territorial dispute and both ROK and Japan use the US as their military servant while blandishing swords at each other.  The US has done nothing substantial about this, instead, issuing weak pleas to stop: U.S. calls on Japan, S Korea to resolve isle dispute.  The US has been subservient to Asian allies because of communist Russia and China and today, neither is communist yet the stupid power relationship continues as if the Cold War never ended.

 

Indeed, fascists in the US are working tirelessly to revive it as much as possible even as the fascist leaders make their wealth exploiting Chinese trade issues as well as enabling trade deficits with Korea and Japan.  Fake patriotism is the rule with our own fascists while the crazy fascists in Asia dream of previous imperial rampages.

 

So, how is the US pushing Japan to back down?  U.S. looks at new early-warning radar for Japan.  This is exactly how we behave with our AIPAC buddy in the Middle East: arm them, give them protection and run trade deficits with them while militarily protecting them from their own neighbors.

 

Die Kinder Kuchen Kirche Partei in die USA also continues on its merry fascist way with the GOP platform plank totally forbidding any abortions even if it is rape or the woman might die, we get this news:  Woman alleges 3-year captivity in Washington Park .  A teenager was lured into hanging out with a man who then imprisoned her for several years, forcing her to have a baby.  The GOP has been in a lather this week due to one fascist claiming that terrified, abused, beaten women who are raped don’t get pregnant and therefore, don’t need abortions.

 

This is right up the Japanese fascist alley where all abortions take place with a coat hanger.  First, you rape and abuse the woman and then, if she gets pregnant, it is her own fault for not ‘naturally’ aborting the baby somehow.  Obviously, her body likes being abused therefore, it is not a crime.  The latest ballyhoo about a stupid book where a very rich man seduces a college girl into being his sex slave is being slavishly flogged to the public telling us, this sort of economic/sex relationship is wonderful.

 

The clever author who is not very attractive, herself, pretends that a sadomasochist relationship where one is rich and powerful and the other isn’t is sexy.  This is stupid.  Masochists who control relationships can get away with it because they don’t fear being enslaved.  When there is a total dysfunction between the sadist and the masochist due to finances and political power, then it becomes rape and usually, murder, very quickly.

 

Pretending otherwise is abusive and women love this gray shaded book of fantastical lies because it erroneously pretends that the weaker party, the female, gets sexually serviced without it ending with her being either strangled or working as a servant while being beaten ruthlessly.  The imperialist fascist cultural tenor in both Japan and the US as well as, dare we say, Israel, is being hiked higher and higher as rapists egg each other on while…condemning Assange who helped leak US diplomatic cables, for being a ‘rapist’ because he had consensual sex that happened to cause a condom to tear.

 

The Catholic Church is all about rapine.  Ruthlessly eliminating women’s rights, it backed the fascists before WWII and the present pope was a Nazi.  Naturally, it is all for raping not just women but children of both sexes while singing songs to a female who was impregnated by a god via devious means:  Cardinal Dolan to give closing prayer after Romney’s nomination | The Raw Story

 

Dolan has received criticism this year for his handling of sex abuse cases. Earlier this year, it was revealed that he authorized paying accused priests to leave the church while he served as the Archdiocese of Milwaukee.

 

Dolan has also fought against proposals to ease the statute of limitations for sexual abuse cases, giving victims a chance to file lawsuits against the church despite how long ago the alleged crime occurred.

 

This man should have worked for the Penn State football program.  He would have perfectly fit in with the jocks there.  Far from protecting women and children from rape, the Church for over 1,000 years has blamed the victims.  I am not a Catholic but I was raped as a child by a prominent man who got away with this and even though everyone who was an adult knew of this, their solution was to isolate me, remove me and forever condemn me as an evil woman even though I was only a small child at the time.

 

Rapists love to blame their victims claiming they caused the rape, they wanted to be raped, they deserved to be raped.  The GOP is also falling into a trap set in Italy whereby the Protestant core of the party has been nearly entirely cut out of the political process so that all GOP candidates and incidentally even a DNC candidate, are all Catholics.  The GOP candidates all belong to inside operations run directly from the Vatican and are using the Protestants who are hysterical about fetuses to infiltrate our court and political systems to impose a Catholic dictatorship here.

 

The Jews playing along with this plan are insane.  They imagine that the Catholic warriors who are fascists will stay as allies of the Jews, ignoring virtualy 1,000 years of history that says this is insanely dangerous.  The Protestants in the GOP have been snookered by the Mormon/Catholic alliance because they are divided into various smaller sects and thus, rendered weaker than the much more centralized other cults.

 

Now, on to yet another story about exploiting mainly women’s labor in a country that prevents women from controlling their own bodies, Muslim Bangladesh:  As Bangladesh Becomes Export Powerhouse, Labor Strife Erupts – NYTimes.com

 

The air thickened with tear gas as police and paramilitary officers jogged into the Ishwardi Export Processing Zone firing rubber bullets and swinging cane poles. Panicked factory workers tried to flee. A seamstress crumpled to the ground, knocked unconscious by a shot in the head.

 

Dozens of people were bloodied and hospitalized. The officers were cracking down on protests at two garment factories inside this industrial area in western Bangladesh. But they were also protecting two ingredients of a manufacturing formula that has quietly made Bangladesh a leading apparel exporter to the United States and Europe: cheap labor and foreign investment…

 

…But with “Made in Bangladesh” labels now commonplace in American stores, Bangladesh’s manufacturing formula depends on its having the lowest labor costs in the world, with the minimum wage for garment workers set at roughly $37 a month. During the past two years, as workers have seen their meager earnings eroded by double-digit inflation, protests and violent clashes with the police have become increasingly common.

 

In response, Bangladeshi leaders have deployed the security tools of the state to keep factories humming.

 

There is sex rape and there is economic rape and usually these go arm in arm.  Another form of rape and murder is to have a society where women have no value except to be exploited as cheap labor while forcing them to have boys.  Valuing boys more than girls afflicts many, many societies.  Across the planet, this devaluation of female babies leads to abortions, infanticide and rape.  Women are overburdened with children as men who control them force them to have as many sons as possible.  ‘Honor killings’ are aimed entirely at female children and adults to control their sexual reproduction choices.

 

The Christians are no better, for nearly the entire history of Christian rule of Europe and much of our recent history even in my own childhood where it was applied to me, is all about protecting rapists and punishing their victims.  One of the horrors of the history of religion is how Henry VIII butchered or abused one queen after another seeking male sons.  And the irony of it all was his only offspring to be smart, much more tolerant and successful was his daughter he hated so much and she was so badly scarred by her life experiences due to his murderous ways, she refused to have children, herself.

 

Yes, the pious leaders of the Protestant Church in England, the Episcopalians, all stood mute while the leader of their church acted like Blue Beard.  And they, in turn, under the Puritan surge, persecuted women as witches and sex fiends and any woman who had sex whether rape or consensual, was punished severely.  Why the US wants to return to this sort of insanity is just horrifying.  And even as the GOP wages war on women, they deny this.  But it is true: all fascists want to control vaginas.  So they can control LABOR.

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45 Comments

Filed under .diplomacy, Politics, religion

45 responses to “Sex Slaves: Fascist Denials About Blatant Rape In Japan And US

  1. DeVaul

    I think Fukushima is the straw that broke Japan’s back. The meltdown caused them to import oil and energy, and that destroyed their ability to control their trade surplus — which is now gone. That was all they ever cared about, which is why nothing was done immediately after the earthquake and tsunamai.

    Since Fukushima cannot be fixed — ever — that means that the other two problems cannot be fixed either, so the elites there have decided to take down everyone else with them. They will try to start a war to compensate for their own economic and imperial failure. It is an old, old story.

    Once gained, the loss of absolute power and wealth cannot be accepted by most humans. They just go berserk.

  2. ” They just go berserk.” Helps if you are already pretty much insane.

    And more can be added to this list besides the Japs and Germans:
    Russians: http://tinyurl.com/8y4v9fe
    Africans: http://tinyurl.com/2wgyu2l
    Etc, Etc…Of course Christians who are actual Christians would not practice such deviancy, but THE CHURCH has never been one to put much store in actually practicing what they preach. They are as the Apostle’s stated “Ravening Wolves.”

  3. tfoth

    Ack: When people misuse metaphors trying to sound smart that end up sounding dumb. Nothing “builds up to a crescendo”.

    More importantly (and this criticism is leveled squarely at the author of this blog) if you want to argue that Assange should not be convicted of rape on the facts, go for it. But if you insist on intentionally misrepresenting those facts then you can not claim to be any more of a “news service” than the propaganda sources you regularly criticize.

  4. Christian W

    @tfoth

    Assange is not accused of anything yet, and if there is an accusation it will not be for rape. Get your facts straight if you want to grill others over factual accuracy.

  5. Seraphim

    If the Japs benefited of leniency, it was due to the fact that they did not commit the sacrilege of touching or even thinking bad of the “people of G.d”, acts which deserve maximum penalty. They massacred just chinks, gooks, monkeys in other words. And occasionally Christians, vagina control freaks and rapists of children, no need to shed crocodile tears over them either.

  6. tfoth

    BTW, for the record, there is an arrest warrant in Sweden.

    Now, I don’t know the law in Sweden, but in my jurisdiction if you penetrate someone while they are asleep the law deems that the person lacks the capacity to consent. So guess what? Even if the person seems to “consent” after they awaken, it doesn’t matter. Legally, there is no “consent after the fact” defense. We have a pretty standard rape statute.

    So an assertion that the allegation of rape, if the facts are taken as true, is “just plain silly” or some such thing is not credible.

  7. Christian W

    Yeah, but how long is ‘after’? One of the women blogged, the day AFTER, to say after how wonderful it was to spend time with the ‘world’s coolest people’ and went on to say that ‘Julian wants to go to a cray fish party, anyone have a place open?’. It was only after the two women found out about each other (a few days later) that they openly changed their minds…

    Does that sound like the actions of somebody who hates her ‘rapist’?

    ‘Sexual assault’ cases are some of the most common in the Swedish judicial system. They rarely lead to convictions, due to their ‘he said, she said’ nature and lack of evidence, and in the rare cases they do lead to a conviction the penalty is six months or so in a cushy Swedish prison with internet access etc.

    All of this would have been over and done with long ago, if Assange did not have credible reason to be afraid of extradiction to the US and years/decades of torture ahead of him.

    Imo, as a Swedish speaker and having read the Swedish press (and tabloid press) for decades and followed Swedish news and society, this whole thing stinks (most Swedes say the same thing). This is political kabuki theater, it had no legs until the big political elephants got involved (the case was already dismissed once by ‘normal’ police and proscutors), and they got involved because they wanted to stomp on something (someone).

    The UK would not threaten to storm a foreign embassy just because of any person charged with ‘sexual assault’ in Sweden, and facing six (read three) months in prison. This is ridiculous, just as it is ridiculous that the Swedish prosecutor issued a red Interpol warrant for Assange, something which isn’t done even in far more serious cases. It is political kabuki theater as I said, and history is full of miscarriages of justice (not least US history is) when it is politically motivated.

  8. Christian W

    Also, the Swedish authorities have to interview Assange before they can charge him with anything. There is precedent that Swedish prosecutors have interviewed people abroad over the internet, but, for some reason they refuse to explain, the Swedish authorities refuse to do so with Assange.

    Nearly every single detail in this whole charade stinks and is unusual compared to normal procedure. While Assange was still in Sweden he volunteered to be interviewed by the Swedish authorities but they were ‘too busy’ to see him. Marianne Ny (the Swedish prosecutor) then allowed Assange to leave Sweden for the UK, only to later slap him with an Interpol arrest warrant as I said above. This is farcial.

    How anyone can not acknowledge that this is a political witchhunt is mind boggling. But, as usual, the reasoning seems to be that the end justifies the means, after all, we all know (before the conviction) that Julian Assange is a rapist… right? Right. At least that is what right wingers are screaming at the top of their lungs which just adds to the witch hunt, doesn’t it.

  9. tfoth

    What, no apology for accusing me of not having my facts straight?

    I guess I can let it go, just this once.

    Re: the point that there would probably be no charges if Assange wasn’t a political target: captain obvious strikes again. But that has nothing to do with my points, which are that Assange is a dumbass, the allegations may have potentially serious legal consequences, and that it is not credible reporting to dissemble the facts.

    Like I said, if the case were tried in my jurisdiction, all that stuff about “why did the women do this and that” would be relevant only to question credibility. Problem is, Assange’s lawyers already brought up the “consent after the fact” theory at a British hearing. Maybe that dog hunts in Sweden. Again, I don’t know anything about the Swedish legal system.

  10. Christian W

    Well, how do you know that there is a charge ready before the interview? Everybody knows there is a charge ready of course, otherwise this witch hunt wouldn’t be on, but have you seen the Swedish proscutors saying they have one ready?

    And the charge isn’t for rape, which is a more serious crime, it is for ‘sexual assault’.

    “Assange is a dumbass”? What has your opinion got to do with anything?
    What is credible about this whole story?

    If you acknowledge that this is a witch hunt, do you believe Assange will get a fair trail in Sweden? Do you believe he is at risk of extradition to the US once his trial in Sweden is over? Or is he better adviced to seek political refuge elsewhere?

  11. tfoth

    What does anyone’s opinion have to do with anything?

    Nothing personal, but this conversation is becoming a bit of a bore.

  12. Christian W

    I was interested in prodding you to see if there was anything of substance behind what you were saying, but there clearly was nothing there.

  13. Verlander

    Bravo, tfoth!

    That’s one of the best examples of Right Wing Authoritarian trollaganda I have yet seen.

    Nitpicking, red herrings, diverting the topic and the overall course of the thread. Quoting “the enemy” (misleadingly, of course) and blah blah blah blah. One thing about you Authoritarian Followers, you sure know how to “stay on message”. You RW Corporate Socialists of the 21st Century have certainly outdone your 20th Century RW National Socialist predecessors by orders of magnitude. They would be so proud of you.

    Much easier on small websites with short commentary threads to perform your nonsense. A bit cowardly, no?

    Only question, are you a paid troll or do you do it for free? I understand the release of endorphins from following your Master’s script so obediently is quite heady, like a line of pure Colombian (another RW Corporate Socialist paradise) coke snorted up a virtuous, Jesus-loving nose.

    Perhaps that is reward enough, eh?

    To others on this thread I would advise not to engage this inidivdual. Their sole purpose is to disrupt, not to debate, inform, or be informed.

    tfoth, are you assigned to this website until the Phony Election in November? If so, probably best to choose a new screen name now that you’ve been outed.

    Will you lose interest afterwards, either because your not getting paid or because there’s no more need to poison discussion boards with your squid ink until the Rigged Election of 2014?

    Here’s a bit of genuine wisdom to bounce against the armor plating of your Authoritarian Follower’s thick skull:

    ““The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
    –Frank Zappa

    Ironic, isn’t it? more truth in that one statement than any of either party has dared speak since Jimmy Carter was run out of town on a rail for treating the American People as something less than amnesiac morons. (big mistake)

    The transition Zappa spoke of is exactly what we are now living through, the transition of one state to another, aided and abetted by both sides, though the RW, as it did in 1930s Germany, is providing the primary impetus for the transformation, while the LW, as the German Democrats in the 30s did, are primarily craven enablers, abused housewives, or like Obama semi- or fully-active collaborators.

    But you can’t understand that, not if you watched Fox News 24/7 for 1000 years.

    Remember tfoth, reply in short declaratives using personal attacks (that I have preemptively levelled against you as if you were an innocent Iraqi who’s stuff I want) and try to get my goat so that I get drawn into your nonsense, futher diverting the thread from any substantive discussion.

    Remember, stay on message shamelessly and let no fact stand in your way!

    You can do it!

  14. Verlander

    Small, but important correction to my previous post.

    I typed “more truth in that one statement than any of either party has dared speak since Jimmy Carter was run out of town on a rail for treating the American People as something less than amnesiac morons. (big mistake)”

    When what I meant to say was:

    “more truth in that one statement than any of either party has dared speak since Jimmy Carter was run out of town on a rail for treating the American People as something MORE than amnesiac morons. (big mistake)”

  15. tfoth

    Hmm, I pushed a hot button somewhere. Y’all are reading a lot more into what I am saying than is really there.

    Verlander, you have made a gazillion unwarranted assumptions about me. Who is really reading from a script imposed by a master, I wonder. Guess what, not even Frank Zappa knows everything!

    I applaud Wikileaks. The point is Assange is a dumbass if he penetrated an unconscious person, especially as a high profile political dissident.

    I am not nitpiking, or throwing out red herrings. I am simply trying to educate you as to how the law of “sexual assault” works, at least in my jurisdiction and most in the U.S. I would dare to guess. This law is “of substance”, I assure you.

    So once again here it is: I’ll try to keep it simple.

    Person A commits an unlawful penetration against B. Person B “forgives” A. Person B then “unforgives” before the statute of limitations runs. Person A can be prosecuted. This is true regardless of why person B chooses to “unforgive”.

    Got that?

  16. JT

    “During WWII, the fascist imperialists in both Germany and Japan brutally enslaved captive populations, abused prisoners of war, forced their own people into death marches after trying desperately to annihilate various ethnic and religious populations.”

    One of the Allied did this too.

  17. Dana Hegna

    Elaine,

    Regarding the situation between the Japanese and South Korean governments: At first, I tried to think if there was some sophisticated political motive involved, and then I realized that the Japanese people (in general) and government representation are actually still very childish, childlike, immature, ignorant, usw. If one asks an individual in Japan about Nanking, for instance, most likely the answer would be, “Sure, I know about it. It’s a city in China.” The general population is ignorant of many things, and many people still think that their own ethnic group is superior to all others on the earth. Sigh. It just takes time to grow (after some beginning has been made). A very few humans are able to ‘teach’ themselves. The rest of us need to be educated – formally and/or otherwise – a la the great Brasilian, Paulo Friere, for empowerment.

    Take good care of yourself, Yubie. Your responsibility is greater than that of many – because, you know.

    Dana

  18. emsnews

    Increasing information is coming out showing that the two females accusing Assange are trying to have him arrested on false charges. A lot of egg on many diplomatic faces today.

    Pretending ‘rape’ happened was silly from day one and I for one, was very offended at the charges because they were stupid. I fought long and hard for saner sex rules and clearer rape rules to protect BOTH men and women.

    Anyone who says that two people who had sex at night and are sleeping together, if they have sex again while one is still half asleep, this is rape, is insane.

    I was ‘raped’ at least a dozen times this way, nay, a hundred times. And I loved it. Good lord. Any man who thinks this is rape should be turned into a eunuch. For his own protection.

  19. DeVaul

    @tfoh,

    What Christian W says is right. Also, here is the key phrase from you:

    “Now, I don’t know the law in Sweden…”

    In Sweden, a case can be closed due to lack of evidence by one prosecutor, then reopened based on the same “lack of evidence” by a new prosecutor who got a phone call from someone abroad. (No new eividence, just a phone call from a VIP).

    I really dread the day when that becomes the law here.

    We will try to get our facts straight if you will try to get your chronology of events straight, ok?

  20. tfoth

    That IS the law here.

    Charges can be brought at any time before the statute of limitations runs. Not even a phone call from a VIP is needed.

    Obviously “half asleep” and “unconscious” are not the same things under the law.

    Like I said, arguing that the circumstances tend to indicate that the allegations are false is one thing. Dissembling about the actual allegations is quite another, from a standpoint of journalistic integrity. Again, this is all just my (apparently worthless) opinion.

  21. emsnews

    Women fearful of men wanting sex at night are free to sleep alone. He did NOT climb into her bed, he was there already with her full consent. Sheesh.

  22. tfoth

    Look, according to her, she told him she didn’t want it without a condom before the fact. Does she have that right, or not?

    In any case, in order to comply with notice requirements the law has to make some threshold determination regarding capacity to consent and “out cold” doesn’t seem unreasonable.

    But all this has nothing to do with my original point, which is that readers should meticulously scrutinize factual representations made in information sources, especially those advocating political agendas, even those they tend to support.

  23. emsnews

    I would suggest that her actions afterwards shows clearly, she was not particularly unhappy with him at all.

    And if you are DRUNK and sleep with someone deliberately, complaining about it months later is insane.

    As for any sleeping with anyone, the level of consent in Sweden is so insanely weird, I would suggest that any man sleeping with any woman should have a lawyer draw up papers, first and she signs the contract.

    This way, it is clear who does what, when. The level of interaction can then be totally controlled in the legal sense.

    SEX IS MESSY. It is more on the animal level and thus, has been constrained (barely) by scary gods throwing thunderbolts. The legal rules allow a lot of ‘gray’ areas because there is no absolute legal definition of all possible actions done while having sex.

    Read 1984, the book, about state-controlled sex designed to minimize emotional contacts. This seems to be what you are looking to impose.

  24. tfoth

    A condom or not is potentially life or death. Does she have the right or not?

  25. 90404

    I doubt many women get HIV from sex [excluding, possibly, sodomy].
    Perhaps in Africa.

    Speaking of Africa, did you know due to Foreign aid the population of Ethiopia has tripled in 25 years?

  26. tfoth

    Well, THAT makes it OK of course.

    I think its fair to say that, no matter how dumb you people think I am I‘m at least now precluded from being the regarded as dumbest commenter here.

    I researched the allegations and the Swedish sexual assault statute. On its face it’s not any more expansive than here in my state. And the sentencing provisions are really light. It certainly doesn’t mention anything about making orgasms illegal. As far as having one’s lawyer present, if you are going to have sex with strangers, then yes, it’s probably a good idea to know something about the law first, especially if your name is Julian Assange. Another reasonable precaution might be to try getting to know someone for a bit before jumping in the sack. If people don’t like my suggestions, well, I didn’t make the world how it is.

    The bottom line is, IF the allegations are true Assange is guilty under any bog standard sexual assault law, and there are perfectly reasonable arguments that the particular provision covering the alleged conduct is based in sound policy. Nothing from 1984 land, at any rate.

    I understand that people here don’t want the allegations to be true. I don’t want the allegations to be true. I also understand that there appears to be a lot of circumstantial evidence calling the integrity of the allegations into question. I am not going to argue about that stuff.

    On the other hand, I suspect that if Strauss Kahn was accused of the exact same conduct everyone here would be screaming “rape” at the top of their lungs.

    Well, THAT makes it OK of course.

    I think its fair to say that, no matter how dumb you people think I am I‘m at least precluded from being the regarded as dumbest commenter here.

    I researched the allegations and the Swedish sexual assault statute. On its face it’s not any more expansive than here in my state. And the sentencing provisions are really light. It certainly doesn’t mention anything about making orgasms illegal. As far as having one’s lawyer present, if you are going to have sex with strangers, then yes, it’s probably a good idea to know something about the law first, especially if your name is Julian Assange. Another reasonable precaution might be to try getting to know someone for a bit before jumping in the sack. If people don’t like my suggestions, well, I didn’t make the world how it is.

    The bottom line is, IF the allegations are true Assange is guilty under any bog standard sexual assault law, and there are perfectly reasonable arguments that the particular provision covering the alleged conduct is based in sound policy. Nothing from 1984 land, at any rate.

    I understand that people here don’t want the allegations to be true. I don’t want the allegations to be true. I also understand that there appears to be a lot of circumstantial evidence calling the integrity of the allegations into question. I am not going to argue about that stuff.

    On the other hand, I suspect that if Strauss Kahn was accused of the exact same conduct everyone here would be screaming “rape” at the top of their lungs.

  27. tfoth

    oops got pasted twice somehow

  28. DeVaul

    “On the other hand, I suspect that if Strauss Kahn was accused of the exact same conduct everyone here would be screaming “rape” at the top of their lungs.”

    Uh…. no. The charges brought against Kahn were that he physically forced a maid to perform oral sex on him, physically hurt her, and she called the police to report it right away. The police also found real evidence to support her story.

    Light years away from what happened in Sweden…

    No photos of him and the maid drinking and partying together the next day, no… well, I digress.

    In Kentucky, there is no statute about broken condoms or broken promises. I would love to learn what state you live in so I can see the statutes there.

  29. tfoth

    Man, DeVaul I expect better from you.

    Where did I ever assert that the conduct in the cases is similar? The point is that you are emotionally attached to a particular result such that your reasoning may not be detached.

    There is no “broken condom” provision in the Swedish statute either.

    I am not going to say where I live. There is a “rape by fraud” provision. I grant that it is controversial, and I have been told that prosecution under would be difficult and is unlikely. I am not going to get into all that here.

    The point is that the alleged conduct does not fall under that or any similar provision.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40551118/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/#.UDvo_8FlSM4

    Aug. 16: The second woman, identified only as Miss W by Swedish officials, calls Assange and they meet in Stockholm. They go by train to her hometown and to her apartment, where they have sex. According to her testimony to police, Assange wore a condom.
    Aug. 17: Miss W later tells police that Assange that morning had unprotected sex with her while she was still asleep.

    (emphasis added).

  30. DeVaul

    Uh…. here:

    “On the other hand, I suspect that if Strauss Kahn was accused of the exact same conduct everyone here would be screaming “rape” at the top of their lungs.”

    You claimed that if the situation was similar that everyone would be screaming for Kahn’s head on a pike. You did not explain how Jewish controlled newspapers would even report such a thing (how many times has he raped maids and had unprotected sex with vulnerable women?) in the US, nor how anyone here at this blog would ever know about it.

    Since you refuse to name the state you are in, and believe that exposing wrongdoing by governments is immoral, and believe that Bush, Cheney, and Kahn can do as they please to other women without punishment, then obviously YOU are the one who is emotionally attached to a certain outcome.

    Since when do people who are sound asleep know they have been raped? And why do they go out to dinner later with the rapist and offer to become their press secretary?

    Why doesn’t Switzerland hand over that movie director (Roman?) after he had sex with a 13 year old girl? Why did we not invade the Swiss embassy to take him by force so he could answer questions in the US (as well as answer to a criminal complaint that had actually been filed)? Is it because he has no knowledge of US criminal activities? Can you really be so dense?

    After Assange is executed — illegally — you can congratulate yourself and ignore the constant outpouring of suppressed evidence from eye-witnesses from Sweden now that they know there will be no real trial in Sweden.

    And I would not be surprised by your glee, as I DON’T expect better from you.

  31. Anon.

    I know in some states theres an old statute ‘Alienation of affection’.
    A female lawyer whos fiance left her sued him.
    Dunno if she got any money for the alienation!!!!

  32. Anon.

    Devaul, calm down guy [or gal].

    ‘Why doesn’t Switzerland hand over that movie director (Roman?) after he had sex with a 13 year old girl?’
    Polanski…his mom died in the holocaust!!!

  33. Seraphim

    @De Vaul,

    The director who had sex with a 13 year old is Roman Polanski, “famous” Jewish director, therefore not in the category which can be accused of anything at the whim of unsatisfied womons.

  34. tfoth

    Mr. DeVaul:

    Now I am pissed. Where the hell to you get off accusing me of believing that exposing wrongdoing by governments is immoral. I wrote that I applaud Wikileaks and that I hope the allegations are untrue.

    The accuser woke up during the sex, of course. For the gazillionth time, for the purposes of my argument I don’t care about all the “why did so and so do this and that business” for reasons that should be pretty clear to anyone making even a minimal effort to understand what I am saying.

    Let’s see what the rest of Elaine’s readers think. Based on my research, under the law I conclude that IF the allegations are true Assange is guilty. But setting that aside, take this hypothetical from the allegations in the Assange case, but change up the characters for emotional context: A virtual stranger (that you are not sexually attracted to) takes your daughter home from a party. She agrees to have sex with him if he uses protection. The next morning, the guy initiates unprotected sex without a condom. Has he done anything wrong? Should there be legal consequences? Does the daughter bear some responsibility through her choice of voluntarily spending the night? Should the guy be allowed to claim she impliedly consented through subsequent conduct? What if the guy turned out to have an STD, or even HIV that shows up substantially later? Should that matter?

    Please weigh in one and all.

    Ever thine humble servant,

    tfoth

  35. tfoth

    Correction: in the above hypo, please add “while she is unconscious” immediately after, “The next morning, the guy initiates unprotected sex without a condom”.

  36. Seraphim

    @tfoth,

    I can’t say what other Elaine’s readers think. For my part I think that it is crap.

  37. emsnews

    I say, all men should bring their lawyers to bed when they sleep with strange women. HAHAHA.

    Yes, that would fix all problems. Except you are financially ruined paying for the lawyer to sleep with you. Unless you have it done pro bono. That is, you have a threesome.

    I guess.

    Look, SEX IS MESSY. By definition. If we want Victorian sex (for ONLY married women, of course) then let’s have it but not in MY marriage.

    When I go to bed with people, I know things could happen. People can be bruised, feeling can be hurt, it can be annoying, it can be wild and fun, it can be divine and it can be a chore.

    This is the nature of being an animal. The woman in this case did not flee the bed when she awoke and raise an alarm. She got mad when he didn’t bother to maker her his only full time mistress.

    A HUGE DIFFERENCE. Huge. Her complaints are more along the lines of a woman scorned, whining about it afterwards.

    Remember: any man, following these standards set by the right wing and the US government agents, is arrestable for deviant sex. You all are in grave danger if we impose this standard on men.

  38. emsnews

    Also, the Asian sex slaves were reduced to this state by the Japanese imperialists. They were given no choices. This was not consensual.

  39. DeVaul

    @tfoth,

    What you are doing is comparing Assange, a man who was “invited” to the home of a woman for a romantic evening that turned out pretty good for her, as her subsequent behavior (that is BIG in evidentiary matters) clearly showed to a number of eye-witnesses, to people who are at best fictitious, and at worst, not in even the same category as Assange and his sweetheart.

    How many condoms have broken in Sweden? How many women have awoken to a man they invited into their bed naked having sex with them and then continuing it? How many of these people were charged with a crime?

    I live in Kentucky, one of the most religiously perverse states in the union, and I have never seen anyone prosecuted for either of these supposed “crimes”. The police are busy with “real” crimes, like forcible rape and murder, and now parents selling their teenage children for sex so they can buy clothes and food.

    You claim to support Wikileaks, but you want its founder extradited to the US to be tortured and murdered? That is what this is all about. If you believe in some other kind of outcome, then you are genuinely deceitful.

    As for “anon”, no, I disagree with you. I don’t believe Jews whose parents died in the holocaust have a “get out of jail free” ticket to commit any crime they so wish. That kind of thinking leads to a place called “Israel”.

    A recent article on RT showed how IDF veterans have tried to speak about the practice of beating and torturing Arab children because they were bored. Go read it. But hey, it’s ok because their parents died in the Holocaust, so… what the hell!!!

    Thinking about Israel and their unlimited crimes against humanity does not “calm me down”. It makes me angry, and so does your implication that Jews should never be prosecuted for their crimes — whatever they may be.

  40. tfoth

    Mr. DeVaul: Again you slander me. You completely made up the false allegation that “you want its founder extradited to the US to be tortured and murdered?”

    “I think that it is crap” is too vague to mean anything to me.

    What started out as a minor criticism on fact reporting has blown up into a pointed discussion about rape laws. There has been a lot of slander against me from various posters, and many, many comments that don’t directly address the point being made. Could the problem maybe be that my argument has legs? The dissenting view can’t be so easily marginalized?

    So be it. Without regard to whether you believe the allegations against Assange are in fact true, does anyone have any specific opinions supported by rational argument regarding my hypo posted above based on the actual allegations against Assange: Dominique Strauss-Kahn initiates unprotected sex with your daughter while she is unconscious after previous consensual protected sex the night before. Is that OK?

    What say ye: one and all.

  41. tfoth

    Currently, at least in U.S. Jurisprudence, subsequent behavior of the alleged rape victim is relevant in limited circumstances only, usually on the issue of whether there was consent. A testifying witness may be cross-examined regarding conduct that reflects on truthfulness. I AM NOT EXPRESSING OR DISPUTING ANY OPINIONS ON WHETHER CONSENT WAS GIVEN IN THIS CASE.

    Also, I am NOT making the comparisons suggested. I am merely substituting characters in my hypo in order to vary the emotional context. It’s an equal protection based concept.

    So what is it people? In my specific hypo above has Strauss-Kahn done anything wrong? If so, does the State have an interest here? Do the facts fall into some “messy grey area” that precludes establishing fair legal standards as to make regulation reasonable at all? What say ye, one and all?

  42. DeVaul

    ” (fill in the blank) initiates unprotected sex with your daughter while she is (asleep in her own bed with a naked man) after previous consensual protected sex the night before (in her own bed).”

    If this is your argument, then I will address it:

    1) I would tell my daughter that inviting a man to her home for sexual relations is an adult decision and that she must act like an adult and foresee all possible scenarios short of forcible rape or bodily assault that has nothing to do with romantic attention (like what occurred a few hours ago that night).

    2) If she only wants to have sex with a man once, then she MUST send him home afterwards and NOT allow him to sleep naked next to her in her own bed after talking about how great he is before she goes to sleep.

    3) If she awakes to unwanted sex, she must say “NO”. She cannot continue and then complain later for reasons that are not clear to anyone.

    4) If she feels she was raped while asleep, then she must report the rape immediately to the police and not pretend nothing happened until she gets a phone call from abroad. She also must contend with the fact that her allegations will not be taken seriously because of points (1) and (2).

    5) If she feels wronged, then I would advise her (AGAIN) to be more careful as to whom she invites home and take more time to get to know this person before engaging in sexual relations so that she does not feel betrayed when the man turns out to have a mistress (or several) or a sexual disease (or several).

    Now, tfoth, prepare to be “slandered” again.

    I believe you are the kind of parent that would not give your daughter this kind of advise before she starts her sexual career, and that you would, in fact, be silent until she feels wronged, and then you would come out swinging in her defense even though you were not in the bed and saw nothing of what happened.

  43. tfoth

    That sounds like good personal advice, but for the record it evades the question.

    If I had to surmise from your answer your opinion of what the legal consequences should be in our hypo it would be some kind of implied waiver theory, that if there is no immediate complaint the alleged victim loses her rights. Of course, as we both know, that is not currently the law in the U.S. Obviously a delay in reporting may complicate the prosecutor’s job, especially if the victim takes the stand, and, if there are no witnesses, obviously he or she will have to.

    All of what you think about me is based on a complete misunderstanding of my original point which had nothing to do with my personal opinions on the equities of the Assange matter. Take a look back. The only personal opinions I’ve expressed is that information sources and readers should meticulously scrutinize fact representations especially where political agendas are being advanced, even those they tend to support; and that IF Assange did what he is accused of, he should have known better regardless of the equities. It had nothing to do with this current discussion which was initiated by personal attacks on me from a few commenters here. EVERYTHING YOU THINK ABOUT ME IS BASED ON STUFF YOU MADE UP IN YOUR OWN MIND SPURRED ON BY EMOTIONAL TRIGGERS.

    It just so happens I am not the type to take these intellectually bereft, emotionally driven attacks lying down. I will fight back. I will at least try to get my attackers to use the reasoning cortex.

  44. tfoth

    Well, anyway, this is how the “divide and conquer” game is played.

    We could agree on 99% but if someone dissents even slightly on what is arguably a minor issue, emotional triggers prompt an array of false attacks. Language is an imperfect tool and genuine communication is hard work.

    From a policy standpoint, I think there are valid counter arguments, based in the need to protect some members of the public, against the idea that the alleged conduct in this case can’t reasonably be criminalized for example, because of one of the reasons I listed above, or that an alleged victim should waive rights from lack of prompt reporting, or that the determination of whether any given conduct can be criminalized should be influenced by the subjective motivations of the one reporting the conduct, even if otherwise it is easier for a government or others to abuse power through selective enforcement.

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