Reassuring Analysis of the History of Inoculations and Vaccines

Swine flu is still in the news.  People are still dying from it.  37 people died in Australia, for example.  There is lots of disinformation on the web concerning not only this epidemic but modern medicine, in general.  Some readers here are rather hostile about anyone discussing other points of view concerning epidemics, the causes and cures of these diseases.  Please bear with me as I examine this from a historical perspective.

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One of the deadlier epidemics that nearly killed off the entire native Indian population of the New World is the old scourge called ‘smallpox’.  Unlike the Black Plague that swept through populations periodically, smallpox was very noxious and continuous as well as very easily transmitted through the air.  It is important because it was the very first disease which was prevented by inoculating the population and indeed, has been pretty much eliminated as a menace to humans:

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Smallpox – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The earliest procedure used to prevent smallpox was inoculation (also known as variolation)…. Accounts of inoculation against smallpox in China can be found as early as the late 10th century, and the procedure was widely practiced by the 16th century, during the Ming Dynasty.[30] If successful, inoculation produced lasting immunity to smallpox. However, because the person was infected with variola virus, a severe infection could result, and the person could transmit smallpox to others. Variolation had a 0.5–2% mortality rate; considerably less than the 20–30% mortality rate of the disease itself.[15]

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What this means is, about one quarter of the population of say, Europe, would die a hideous and painful death from smallpox during periodic, generational surges in this disease.  Like we see today with various flues, populations develop immunity to an invasion of some virus so time has to pass while the virus group mutates in various populations so it can resurge through the entire population.

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The history of smallpox is very interesting.  A curious British lady wanted to know all about seraglio life so she could write about it.  While visiting the cloistered ladies of the Ottoman rulers, she learned how these women protected their children from smallpox:

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    Her husband, a politician, was rewarded by being appointed Ambassador to Turkey and the young couple set off for the exotic Turkish lands. A perceptive spectator, an adventurous tourist, and a fascinated amateur ethnographer, Lady Mary immersed herself in all things Turkish, even learning the language. She visited the zenanas, meeting the upper class women secluded there, and learning Turkish customs. Her record of her travels, Turkish Embassy Letters, are still considered among the finest specimens of the epistolary genre.

    .Upon returning home to England, Lady Mary introduced into England the Turkish practice of inoculating healthy children with a weakened strain of smallpox to confer immunity from the more virulent strains of the disease. The dreaded smallpox, which left Lady Mary herself scarred from her 1715 bout with the disease and which killed her brother, often killed its victims or left them scarred or deformed for life. Upon learning of the Turkish practice, Lady Mary immediately had her son inoculated. After returning home to England, she introduced the custom to the nobility by having her daughter inoculated, too. Edward Jenner (1749-1823) would eventually be given credit for the smallpox vaccine, but it was really Lady Mary who pioneered the approach in western Europe and made it acceptable to the influential, the rich and the powerful. Eventually, the practice of inoculation would filter down to the middle and working classes and would be extended to inoculation against a variety of infectious diseases..

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Several matters here: the ruling elites were the first to accept and use inoculations to protect themselves from viral diseases.  Over time, this protection was expanded to lower and lower levels of the population.  Curiously, a rural doctor noticed that milkmaids didn’t get smallpox.  This led to yet another discovery that greatly improved the inoculation process:

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In 1796 Edward Jenner, a doctor in BerkeleyGloucestershire, rural England, discovered that immunity to smallpox could be produced by inoculating a person with material from a cowpox lesion. Cowpox is a poxvirus in the same family as variola. Jenner called the material used for inoculation vaccine, from the root word vacca, which is Latin for cow. The procedure was much safer than variolation….

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Smallpox vaccination provides a high level of immunity for three to five years and decreasing immunity thereafter. If a person is vaccinated again later, immunity lasts even longer. Studies of smallpox cases in Europe in the 1950s and 1960s demonstrated that the fatality rate among persons vaccinated less than 10 years before exposure was 1.3%; it was 7% among those vaccinated 11 to 20 years prior, and 11% among those vaccinated 20 or more years prior to infection. By contrast, 52% of unvaccinated persons died.[31]

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There are side effects and risks associated with the smallpox vaccine. In the past, about 1,000 people for every 1 million people vaccinated for the first time experienced serious, but non-life-threatening, reactions including toxic or allergic reaction at the site of the vaccination (erythema multiforme), spread of the vaccinia virus to other parts of the body, and to other individuals. Potentially life-threatening reactions occurred in 14 to 52 people out of every 1 million people vaccinated for the first time. Based on past experience, it is estimated that 1 or 2 people in 1 million (0.000198%) who receive the vaccine may die as a result, most often the result of postvaccinial encephalitis or severe necrosis in the area of vaccination (called progressive vaccinia).[26]

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There are few things on this planet, in human existence, that are 100% safe.  We take risks.  We can choose to court disaster or we can accept the possibility that something safe might not work once in a very rare while.  The odds of dangerous reactions to the modern smallpox vaccine was vanishingly small.  About the same as being hit by lightning.

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Now, I have been hit several times by lightning.  So perhaps, I should think twice about this sort of thing (hahaha).  But seriously, it took a while to spread the idea of a vaccination because people thought it was a form of witchcraft or an alien Muslim conspiracy.  Or they simply distrusted authorities.

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Peasants have always had very good reasons to distrust authority!  Trust is not easy when we consider that rulers can and are quite treacherous.  The attitude the rulers have towards captive populations vacillates.  For example, the rulers can quite cheerfully allow millions of peasants such as the Irish people, to starve literally to death and die, and thus, squelch rebellions.

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Even in modern times, massive populations have been permitted to starve to death in places such as colonial India, colonial Africa, Ukraine, etc.  But the rulers don’t run all things.  Reformers and revolutionaries starting with our own revolutionary government, pushed very hard to protect the general population from plagues.

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The last major European outbreak of smallpox was in 1972 in Yugoslavia, after a pilgrim from Kosovo returned from the Middle East, where he had contracted the virus. The epidemic infected 175 people, causing 35 deaths. Authorities declared martial law, enforced quarantine, and undertook massive re-vaccination of the population, enlisting the help of the WHO. In two months, the outbreak was over.[45] Prior to this, there had been a smallpox outbreak in May–July 1963 in StockholmSweden, brought from the Far East by a Swedish sailor; this had been dealt with by quarantine measures and vaccination of the local population.

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Smallpox was eliminated thanks to quite draconian measures.  Any government that sits idle while infectious plagues ravage the people is a government that deserves to fall!  Throughout the history of all civilizations, authorities had to use strong measures to control diseases and redistribute resources so the population could grow, not collapse.  The success of these sorts of draconian measures are clear: the global population has soared ever since major plagues have been either wiped out or controlled via inoculations and hygiene.

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For example, protocols for cleaning hands and clothing of medical workers assisting in child births has gone a long ways towards ending birth fevers that used to kill many women over the centuries.  Proof that these measures work is obvious: the population of humans has soared across the planet.  There is one place it has begun to shrink: in countries with good health control systems, birth control access or government birth control rules are keeping down population growth.

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But in places like most Muslim lands where birth control is outlawed, population levels are rapidly heading towards disaster.  Japan’s population is imploding while Saudi Arabia’s population is exploding.  100 years ago, Saudi Arabia had less than a million people.  Today, it has about 30 million people.  Only 600,000 is over 65 years old.  13 million are under 18 years old.  288 births per 1,000 while deaths are less than 3 per thousand.

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Japan has 127 million people but had a much greater population density 100 years ago.  Japan has 17 million children below 18 years.  And over 19 million older than 65 years!  Only 40 million are working age.  There are only 7.6 births per 1,000 which is 37 times less than the Saudi birth rate!  Japan has 9 deaths per 1,000 people so the population is shrinking, totally unlike in Saudi Arabia. Only crowded Hong Kong as a lower birthrate than Japan.

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Japan fears something like the H1N1 flu since it strikes children and young adults the hardest.  With a birthrate of only seven babies to every thousand adults, losing one quarter of this population to a plague like the 1918 epidemic would be catastrophic for Japan and might even wipe out the Japanese people in the future since there will be so few children to create more children in the future!

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Saudi Arabia doesn’t even have the highest birthrate.  3 African nations have a much higher birthrate.  Niger has a 51 births per 1,000 people, for example.  But the 4th highest rate on earth is Afghanistan: 45 babies per 1,000.  Even with the US killing babies in bombing raids and assassination attempts,  the growth rate in Afghanistan is extremely high.  Afghanistan has 33 million people. About half of that population is under 18 years of age.  The average age is under 18 years!    The population is the same size as Saudi Arabia but the death rate is 20 per 1,000 and no surprise since our government boasts every week about how many of these people we kill!

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Generally speaking, these populations accept vaccinations to prevent disease even as they fight us tooth and nail about nearly everything else.  I decided to tackle another noxious disease which became part of the vaccination system during my own youth:

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History of Measles

References to measles can be found as far back as the 7th century A.D. In fact, measles was described by Rhazes (Persian philosopher and physician) in the 10th century A.D. as “more dreaded than smallpox.” But all that changed in 1963, when the measles vaccine was first licensed in the United States.

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Prior to 1963, almost everyone got measles; it was an expected life event. Each year in the United States, there were approximately three to four million cases, and an average of 450 deaths. Epidemic cycles occurred every two to three years. More than half the population had measles by the time they were six years old, and 90 percent had the disease by the time they were 15 years old. However, after the measles vaccine became available, the number of measles cases dropped by 99 percent, and the epidemic cycles diminished drastically.

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Whatever complications might arise from vaccinations, the death and sickness rates are far, far lower than when there was no vaccination.  I knew many hippie types in the sixties who refused to get regular medical help for their children.  So their kids had a number of nasty diseases due to magical thinking styles or paranoia.  One nasty example is rheumatic fever:

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Rheumatic Fever

Rheumatic fever is a delayed, autoimmune reaction to the streptococcus bacteria. It can be prevented with prompt diagnosis of strep throat, and treatment of strep throat with antibiotics. It is uncommon in the US, except in children who have had strep infections that were untreated or inadequately treated.

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Depending on the severity of the initial attack of the disease on the heart, some children may develop heart disease. Physical activity and sports may be restricted in your child, based on your child’s physician’s findings.

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Also, if your child had heart involvement during the initial course of rheumatic fever, he/she will need to receive antibiotics before having dental work done. This helps decrease the chance of infection migrating to the heart during the dental procedure. Consult your child’s physician for more information.

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I know people who died, as adults, from heart damage caused by rheumatic fever.  I have cared for children who grew up needing to take medicine before simple dental cleanings thanks to this disease.  Modern medicine has many great facets.  As well as some weaknesses.  One is the confusion over how to react to our meddling with natural processes.  That is, normally, a huge number of humans die of various overlapping epidemic episodes that cut down the population levels by over 20% over the course of a century.

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One of the nastiest epidemics are called ‘wars’.  WWII, for example, killed over 22 million humans.  Yet, thanks to modern medicine and especially vaccinations, the world’s population shot upwards after WWII.  The US pushed hard to expand inoculations in many former colonial countries.  The wildly successful business of vaccinating populations is obvious: the US killed millions of Vietnamese yet that country is heavily populated a mere 30 years later: Vietnam now has nearly 90 million people which is only 40 million less than Japan.  Japan’s population was violently reduced during WWII and sprang back in less than 50 years.  Vietnam has only 16 births per 1,000 and 6 deaths per 1,000.  The deaths are approaching Japanese levels but births are double the Japanese rate.  Life expectation is over 71 years.  Japan is 82 years.

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Under 17 million US population is under 18 years old.  Our own life expectancy is midway between Vietnam and Japan’s, at 78 years.  These numbers show very clearly that 100 years of public medicine practices are quite good.  The main way the top industrial nations control populations is now via birth control and women’s liberation.  Note that women are imprisoned in Afghanistan and have a very high birthrate as well as a noxious and high death rate of not only the children but the mothers, too.  Even so, epidemics don’t rage there (but wars do!)

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Federal Health Officials Extol High U.S. Vaccination Rate

Four particular vaccines showed a big jump, based on a study published in the July 7 issue of the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, a publication of the CDC. The vaccination statistics show that 93.5% of preschoolers are getting immunized against Haemophilus influenzae type B (Hib), 95.9% of children are receiving three doses of diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (DPT) vaccine, and almost 90% are taking the hepatitis B shots. And for the first time, more than half of the children surveyed has gotten the relatively new chickenpox vaccine.
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HHS says that the number of kids protected by vaccination has gone up from 55% in 1992 to its current 80% level. However, the news isn’t all good. There are pockets of medically under-served people in cities like Houston, Chicago, and Detroit where the vaccination rate is just 60%. And an estimated 900,000 U.S. children weren’t vaccinated last year.

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President Lincoln’s beloved son, Todd, died of tetanus.  This was a fearful disease in old times.  In particular, when iron was used for nails on farms.  A rusty nail exposed to animal wastes which pierces the flesh is quite dangerous.  Now, on to the present H1N1 flu stories for today:

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What Past Flu Pandemics Say About H1N1 Swine Flu

The researchers show that flu pandemics hit different places with different severity at different times. For example, the first wave of the 1968 H3N2 flu pandemic was severe in the U.S. and Canada, but was mild in England — which experienced a severe second wave in the winter of 1969.

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Another feature of flu pandemics is that they don’t happen all at once. The 1957 H2N2 pandemic is a case in point. It hit the U.S. in three waves, with most deaths occurring in 1959 and 1962 — the last wave five years from the initial 1957 wave.

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“The way the world thinks of flu pandemics is like a tornado: It swipes though and maybe it’s too late to make a vaccine,” Simonsen says. “But that is not true. Sometimes considerable burden falls on later flu seasons.”

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And sometimes that burden doesn’t come during flu season at all. That’s an important warning, as a poll shows Americans are looking past the current H1N1 outbreak to worry about the looming fall flu season.

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It isn’t a bad plan to prepare for the coming flu season, notes Carolyn Bridges, MD, of the CDC’s epidemic intelligence service.

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“In past pandemics with a novel flu strain, the initial outbreaks in the summer are generally milder,” she said at a news conference. We expect we are likely to see some transmission over the summer, with the possibility that over the fall, when the weather turns cooler, we might see an increase in cases.”

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During all epidemics people naturally vacillate between fear and hope.  Most people, I would suggest, the vast majority, would line up for some inoculation if they could get it.  The problem is, there isn’t much of any inoculation ready yet, and as it is developed by scientists, the first people to get it must be healthcare personnel who are exposed to this disease.  I know how important this is because this is how I got the Hong Kong flu when it came across the Pacific.

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One of the key things I notice with many commentaries suggesting every possible sort of conspiracy concerning this flu episode is how it fluctuates with each incoming news story.  One week, it is all about how the elites want to kill everyone with a viral epidemic then, these websites mock government pronouncements about the dangers of an epidemic, claiming, these calls of caution are fake.  This should clue people in as to the reliability of these sorts of analysis.

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I am not a medical doctor or researcher but I can read stuff as well as pull in some of my own life experiences.  People reading this site can take it or leave it.  I fear for the mental health of people who fall for every conspiracy story posted on the internet.  These are often quite wild.  Not that there are no conspiracies!  OBVIOUSLY NOT!  There are these things.  Winnowing out the silly ones from the real ones is very difficult for people.  No surprise, of course.  It is like untangling a skein.  A general rule of thumb to use is this: is the story line logical or is it not logical?

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For example, thinking that all inoculation pushes by governments are aimed at destroying populations is refuted by the obvious fact, populations are rising, not falling, in places where governments push for inoculations.  This is just a typical example which I hope people apply to all sorts of situations.  This is why I look up tedious amounts of data when talking about things, I don’t just assume stuff just because it might appeal to people’s need for one sort of story line or another.  Here is a story that people have used to weave various bizarre conspiracy stories around:

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The Associated Press: Legal immunity set for swine flu vaccine makers

The last time the government embarked on a major vaccine campaign against a new swine flu, thousands filed claims contending they suffered side effects from the shots. This time, the government has already taken steps to head that off.

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Vaccine makers and federal officials will be immune from lawsuits that result from any new swine flu vaccine, under a document signed by Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius, government health officials said Friday.

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Since the 1980s, the government has protected vaccine makers against lawsuits over the use of childhood vaccines. Instead, a federal court handles claims and decides who will be paid from a special fund.

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The document signed by Sebelius last month grants immunity to those making a swine flu vaccine, under the provisions of a 2006 law for public health emergencies. It allows for a compensation fund, if needed.

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As I and others have noted, no vaccination process is totally devoid of all possible side effects.  There is always a very dim but very real danger that a very few people might suffer from being vaccinated.  Instead of bogging down the courts and the system with endless lawsuits that are NOT related to any real side effects (often, when some other problem happens to coincide with the general timeframe of an inoculation, people jump to the conclusion, the cause of the problem was due to the inoculation), anyone suffering side effects is given proper care and financing from the general fund.

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We are in a very litigious nation and no national program to quickly deal with any epidemics can operate if the people doing the research, vaccine creation and servicing of the vaccine are not protected from lawsuits, nothing would ever be done in due course.  Sometimes, a draconian approach is literally life and death.  In epidemics, time is extremely important.  The state does have some say in these matters.  For example, if a parent decides they don’t want to protect their children, the state might step in to protect the children.  This is due to children having some basic rights to their own lives.  Parents can’t unilaterally decide to expose children to death just because of various belief systems held by the adults.

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As a former child who contested her own parents more than once in order to get important medical care (‘Mom, dad, take me to the hospital NOW!’ was one order I gave when only 13 years old…I nearly died.)   I know very well how important it is to invoke state powers on behalf of a child.  I once had to petition a major Federal court to get needed medical care for a child that wasn’t even my own child.  I got temporary custody so I could take this child, who had already had rheumantic fever, to a dental surgeon!  It was ridiculous.  It also saved her life.

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54 Comments

Filed under evolution

54 responses to “Reassuring Analysis of the History of Inoculations and Vaccines

  1. JSmith

    Good article, overall, but vaccination did not come without cost: it completely destroyed the magic amulet industry.

  2. Gary

    Now, if only we could vaccinate the Mr JS from the deadly affliction called “free” trade !

    The “free” trade virus has ripped thru America devestating cities and towns and causing rampant growth in the Hamptons

  3. mind control

    Obviously the satanists are not choping only chicken heads they are also cannibals.
    http://satanic-abuse.blogspot.com/

  4. trailin' pete

    elaine, your “historical perspective” ignored europes non-participation in the 50’s and 60’s hysteria to vaccinate anything and everything that moved. Compare the various outbreaks during that time between europe (that did not embrace vaccines) and the US which did and you will see that the diseases ran essentially the same course.

    the immune systems humans have are highly evolved and time tested. when they work properly viruses and bacterias don’t really have a chance t gain a foothold. Why do they sometimes fail? generally because they aren’t maintained properly. for example, why does the flu ramp up during the onset of winter? simple, less access to the sun because people are indoors…sun energy is diffused due to the angle and vitamin D is no longer being assimilated. So the answer is to jam a needle of a weakened strain in to someones arm? then they get the virus and the mecury and other preservatives which further tax and strain the already weakened body. Wrong.

    Recognize the real source of the problem and take an alternative source of vitamin d.

    you’re right elaine, you are no doctor (and you are disseminating bad info). but mendelson is…read his book and understand how to survive the coming plagues

  5. melponeme_k

    I believe Europe experienced a bad outbreak of syphilis at the time my people were dying of small pox here in the Americas.

    They blamed my people for that… That might have been true but I don’t think they have found evidence of a syphilis form native to only the Americas. Perhaps that is due to not many bodies were preserved here.

    In fact most feel we narrowly missed an extinction event when the old world met new. Small pox was already creating havoc before most settlers arrived. Just think if that did not happen. Old world viruses mixing with New world viruses. Both sides being vulnerable and no known immunity because of isolation. It would have been devastating.

  6. emsnews

    Trailing Pete, you better back up what you contend with proof. I lived in Europe post WWII and they all had national health systems and all the kids were pocked in the arm by nurses.

  7. emsnews

    melponeme, in England, it was called ‘the Spanish pox.’ 🙂

  8. DrKrbyLuv

    If I want to be “reassured” about vaccinations or the economy, I can simply turn on television.

    Responsible people should know better than to trust the governBank or to naively think that your health, freedom and prosperity are considered important.

    Before you line up to get the vaccination you should be aware that the concoction has not been properly tested. The drug companies have been given a special immunity so they can’t be sued if “unintended” consequences may occur.

    Here are a couple of links that should give you some pause:

    Bioweapons, Dangerous Vaccines, and Threats of a Global Pandemic
    http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2009/07/bioweapons-dangerous-vaccines-and.html

    New Threat: Antibiotic-resistant Bacteria Causes Deadly Pneumonia
    http://www.naturalnews.com/026650_MRSA_bacteria_disease.html

  9. nah

    There is no chance that the world is as sickly as in the past… we gots drugs, chemicals, hospitols, modern food process and excelent machine managed food prepetory equipment used by all food vendors to provide a quality ‘yummy’ product… even if the flu takes off the 1st world can manage such a serious crisis from multiple points of control from information, to direct human inoculation/medication… there is no threat of a new plague that will plow under civilazation for 100 years…
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    went to the mall yesterday ‘dropped like 70 bucks’ man that place is hopping… joked with my friend that these people have no idea the depression is robbing them of their childhood and purchasing power… the US is an amazing gleeful hopeful reality
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    guilty of hiding behind the face of man

  10. Simon

    Australia is in winter, flu season and people die
    This should not be a reason to panic, I knew someone who had it and made a full recovery
    All you need is rest and a healthy mind, like other flus.
    The Tamiflu(TM) doesn’t do jack

  11. Dang, I bought some of that “tamiflu” stuff awhile back as an “insurance policy”.

    I can’t stand it when my insurance doesn’t do jack….I should have known better.

    Still, I have many other personal policies…..

    Glad to be back from Eastern TN. You know —- something that NC and TN share is the “The Smokies” — at least according to today’s boundaries.

  12. CK

    It’s funny, just two postings back Elaine was bemoaning how easy it is for institutions to lose the trust of their customers. Now here she is suggesting that in this case we should put back on the blinders and just blindly trust these medical clowns.
    The vaccine makers have been pushing for a blanket immunity since the Clinton admin. Majority Leader Bill Frist kept carrying their water on capital hill until his hasty retirement.
    If you allow your male children to be the subject of the endless pokings and proddings and chemical stormings before their brains have even solidified, you probably deserve to enjoy the rewards of autism and its brethern diagnoses in the victims too. Or you can trust that everything done by the drug and vaccine companies is done to cure and end disease.
    hmmmmm
    Logic does suggest that ending diseases is not in the long term profitability picture for these companies. Symptom management is profitable.
    Even more profitable is creating new diseases that you already have the pills for.
    I think my favorite new disease is Thin Eyelashes syndrome. And did you know that there is a cream to apply to your eyelids to make your lashes look more mascaraed than previously thought possible. ( Blue eyed women are warned that applying the cream may make your blue eyes brown.)
    And I just noticed that there is now a once a day Cialis. Instead of 36 hours of fun on one pill you can now have your dayly ration o passion. A pill a day is more profitable?

  13. I try to stay away from pills CK. It is always a case-by-case decision based on personal circumstances.

    BUT, for all those who want to mess with their eyelashes —- all I can say in response is: what are you thinking? Who told you thicker is better? And, most importantly, mess with your eyes at your own risk.

    I think most of the “medicine” from the “pharmacy” out there today ain’t nothing but fancy marketing. Not worth the price.

    If you want, just take an aspirin a day, and there are many other good remedies out there that the grandmas of lore tried to tell us all. If you profit on sickness, then sickness will come back your way. If you are a real doctor, then you have taken an oath to heal – regardless of profit.

    Wishful thinking perhaps, but I’m not a doctor.

    🙂

    CK – hope you are feeling well no matter what!

  14. sam

    build up your immune system with vitamin D as in exposure to
    the Sun each day and take Vitamin D caps in winter. Also
    American Indians survived the
    1918 flu by taking Osha root as it
    protects the lungs. This swine flu
    strikes deep in the lungs. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/51913.php

  15. emsnews

    1. A ‘strong’ immune system is MORE deadly with certain viral flues.

    2. Just because some systems are fucked up doesn’t mean ALL are fucked up.

    3. Third world survival rates of children have SHOT UPWARDS thanks to vaccinations, this is most definitely not because of availability of hospitals or better food or housing. It is purely an effect of better vaccination programs thwarting some of the worst plagues.

    4. Yes, people die of the flu all the time. It is the death rate versus the infection rate and who it strikes. Flues that kill the elderly are common. The elderly can die of the common cold. But when young, strong, healthy people die in less than three days due to a flu: this is most dangerous and is a warning sign that 50 million healthy people might die in an epidemic.

    5. I am not phobic about everything. If I were, I would be long dead. I have watched fellow ‘freaks’ in SF die of self-starvation or suffer terrible side effects from eating the wrong stuff, all the while, loudly touting that they were healthy eaters. This is part of the tormented parts of our brains that works very hard to fool ourselves.

    We care quite capable of thinking in destructive ways. I chronicle this process coming from ALL sides. Anyone who imagines they are on a ‘good’ side are fooling themselves. We struggle to do the best we can, there is no perfect ‘good’ solution any more than there is a perfect way to live or a perfect religion.

    Life is all about weighing risks and benefits. It is crystal clear in population statistics that inoculations and vaccines have increased survival rates, especially in young people. Even if they are very poor and live in bad sanitation situations.

  16. Elaine I so agree with all you said, but just now I’m not trusting the swine flu vaccination – Especially if it is forced. If forced, then that will influence my own personal opinion.

    I don’t trust the swine-flu situation at all, but I need to study up on this and I plan on doing as such and then, I will make my own case-by-case decision.

    sam – I appreciate your wisdom.

  17. I have been conducting a preliminary internet study of the “neo-H1N1 ‘swine’ flu.” it is spreading perhaps 10× more rapidly than “ordinary” flu, and it seems show relatively little of the susceptibility to heat above 60°F that restrains most of the exogenously transmitted flu and cold viruses. It is critically important to recognize that each distinct infectious agent has it’s own particular “habits,” which dictate the optimal approaches to address their treatment. For example, it has recently been discovered that the HIV (RNA) virus rarely becomes exposed to antibodies circulating in the blood: Rather, it depends on T-cell (white blood immune cell) communication bridges that form naturally when the T-cells come into contact. So vaccines are not likely to control HIV. And so on.

    Smallpox is perhaps the most frightening communicable disease. People can be immunized against it by inoculation with the similar, but far less dangerous chicken pox. The poxes are very large, complex DNA viruses that attack many vertebrates, insects, etc. They are airborne, and spread with great ease. They have been “combined” with Ebola RNA viruses in weapons labs.

    The polio virus IIRC, is a close relative of rabies. It has been suggested often that the “polio epidemic” was in a sense, “human induced.” The premise is, everyone used to get polio in early childhood, a period in which it does not ravage the nervous system. With the advent of modern hygiene, people began getting it much later in life, and thus it was devastating their neurons. The “Salk” vaccine was able to prevent this. However, there is some evidence that the virus is becoming somewhat immune to the modern vaccines.

    Anthrax is a bacterial infection with a completely different strategy than other pathogens. Once it invades a small portion of an organism it secretes a very subtle and lethal toxin that causes quick fatality. It thereupon monopolizes the process of decay, producing vast quantities of itself. So weaponized variants can be “targeted.”

    The now rapidly dispersing “neo-H1N1 ‘swine’ flu” is most unusual in many respects. It does not infect swine! It is a chimera made up of bird flu, swine flu, and human flu genomic components. Such a combination has never been seen before, and many experts doubt that it could have arisen via natural processes.

    Where modern medical aid is available, it has been lethal in about 0.45% of cases. This level of lethality is far lower than that of many other diseases. Researching this material has been quite difficult, even via the internet! Another apparent fact is that the people who are succumbing to this virus are generally obese. No one seems to know why or how overweight people appear to be so prone to succumb.

    There is a tremendous amount of Resistance on the part of the research and medical communities to the use of vaccinations to control “neo-H1N1 ‘swine’ flu,” and while a bit of this resistance may be misguided, most of it is driven by powerful arguments. It seems that this particular virus does not grow easily in eggs, unlike so many of its
    relatives.” If it can’t be cultured in eggs, it will be cultured in animals, and this creates many serious extra hazards. It might be safer to risk the 0.45% lethality of the virus — presuming that one actually does contract it — than to risk whatever animal serum components might enter your bloodstream via vaccination.

    There are other concerns about vaccinations. This virus has already undergone a radical genomic transformation. If everyone is required to be vaccinated, then everyone is likely to the genomic virus’ components circulating in their blood. Some of these people will certainly have other flue strains present in their blood, and it will thus become possible for these different strains to “trade” genomic features, perhaps creating a “super virus!” (There is one potential vaccine that allegedly contains only proteins from the new virus, but not the genomic components: “Unlike other drug manufacturers, Protein Sciences doesn’t need the live swine flu virus to create the vaccine. Instead, it uses the virus’ genetic code to create a highly purified protein that is mixed with salt water to make the vaccine.

    I have been following Dr. Patricia Doyle for many years on her “Emerging Disease” blog and forum. She is a veterinarian (D.V.M.) (She “almost” has a business PhD too) who has been completely objective and scientific in her careful reports on emerging disease over the years. Unfortunately, her blog and forum are currently down. Obviously another victim of The Vast Ponzi Internet Scam (which I warn so often about). In the context of the current interest in the rapid spread of the new “neo-H1N1 ‘swine’ flu,” her number of site visitors must have ramped up hugely. So if she had typical poor hosting (99.9% of web host companies are frauds who advertise cheap access to vast resources, and then slow page loads to a snail’s pace, have “temporary outages,” or simply lose pages or whole databases when sites become popular and begin to actually use those resources. That’s why there are so few really big “unendowed” independent sites on the internet (but there is a cure for this)). Dr Doyle is currently constructing two new sites at:

    http://drpdoyle.tripod.com/

    http://emergingdiseases.com/

    (If you are contemplating setting up a new website, I suggest hosting by Westhost.com or NearlyFreeSpeech.net. (never anything like GoDaddy!) If you use WordPress, do not ever attach their “API code” to your site (they censor). So don’t use their “Asikmet” spam filter — use the “http://defensio.com/downloads/” plugin!)

    Here’s Dr Patricia Doyle’s Comment about the new vaccines:

    I am making a plea to everyone who reads this, please, please DO NOT TAKE ANY VACCINE THAT IS PURPORTED TO ‘PREVENT’ THIS FLU.

    I am making a plea to everyone who reads this, please, please DO NOT TAKE ANY VACCINE THAT IS PURPORTED TO ‘PREVENT’ THIS FLU.

    Remember 1976 and the so called Swine Flu outbreak that was purported to be a coming pandemic? It only infected recruits at Ft. Dix. Why? Because I believe that the so called Swine Flu virus infected the recruits due to the vaccines they were given. Whether the government developed the Swine Flu 1976 virus and infected the recruits as a means to test the public to see if people would comply with a call to take vaccination against Swine Flu, or the recruits became infected via contaminated vaccine they were given as part of the recruit regimen, that outbreak was as phony as they come. I was one of the people duped into taking a Swine Flu shot and it made me so sick. I was sick in bed for three months after taking the vaccine.

    Do not take seasonal flu vaccine if you are told that it could help prevent this brand new Swine Flu variant. It won’t do a thing to prevent this flu. What it will do is serve up new genetic material to the Swine Flu virus that I have dubbed Spanish Flu 2, the Sequel. The Spanish Flu variant will use the gene sequences in the vaccine in humans to develop more of the changes that make the virus more readily infect humans. We do not want to give this virus more human genetic material so that it will infect humans more readily person to person. This is what vaccinated individuals do for pandemic strains.

    [….]

  18. emsnews

    “many experts’ is what? 1% of these experts? If you only go to websites run by ‘experts’ of this sort, you might end up being fooled into thinking, they are the ‘majority’.

  19. emsnews

    As far as this variant being very ‘unusual’: viruses slice and dice themselves ALL THE TIME. This is not unusual, this is a fundamental characteristic of these entities.

    Also, pigs do get this flu which is why they have to be isolated from anyone who is a carrier, so far. But then, this information is in other news stories. See how unsimple things are? What looks like verities quickly disintegrates when one looks at a wide variety of stories. This is also why I include lots of links: to show sources so people don’t think I am just making remarks out of thin air.

  20. emsnews

    By the way, the Fort Dix event could possibly have been caused by the germ warfare research there. I think this should have been investigated much more closely. But it won’t, of course. Again: the loss of trust is profound and is the fault of the secret organizations doing all sorts of crap.

  21. I have read as many stories as I could find. This new “tripartite swine flu” does not seem to infect swine. Of course, precautions should be taken anyway. There is still “ordinary” swine flu, which can infect them.

    A surprising number of microbiologists thing this swine/ bird/ human combination would be very unlikely to occur naturally. (I have not compiled a list yet.)

    My guess it that this could have been an “experimental virus” that escaped from one of the many P4, or even P5 labs that have sprung up across the world like mushrooms. I believe that the quality of global technology is diminishing in certain ways, and this could become incredibly dangerous.

    In this instance, it might be advisable to begin losing weight and avoiding smoke inhalation.

  22. JT

    Vaccinations are a pretty good thing.
    Here´s vaccination schedule for children from my country:
    at birth: Bacillus Calmette-Guérin vaccine
    3 months: Diphtheria vaccine, Tetanus vaccine, Acellular pertussis vaccine, Haemophilus influenzae type b vaccine, Inactivated polio vaccine
    14-18 months: Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine

    http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/finland.html

    In my country first swine flu vaccinations will be given to medical staff and risk groups (pregnant women, small children, elderly people and people with pre-existing health problems.)

    Swine flu is about the numbers. Pretty much everyone under 40 years of age will be infected within a year, that´s the problem. At least at the moment it just a normal flu sypmtomswise.
    It´s a pretty major economic problem too almost everyone will work one week less for world GDP.

    And no nobody is out to kill all our pregnant women and small children here ;). Just take the vaccine if you´re in the risk groups.

  23. JSmith

    “I have been following Dr. Patricia Doyle for many years on her “Emerging Disease” blog and forum. She is a veterinarian (D.V.M.) (She “almost” has a business PhD too)…”

    Hm. I go to the vet when the cat needs health care. But she’s not licensed to practice “people” medicine. (Neither, I guess, is Patty.)

    I think people who don’t vaccinate are well within their rights to accept or refuse any form of health care.

    But I also think they need to form their own self-contained holistic communities so they don’t come in contact with the rest of us.

  24. CK

    @JS:
    Ah Smitty where would we get ShooFlyPie if those nasty amish and PA dutch refused to deal with us heathens?
    I should also remind you that advocating religious quarantine is a “thought/hate” crime as defined by your Government. It is a short slippery slope from advocacy of concentration camps for non-vaccinators to advocacy of ovens and genocide.

  25. CK

    As we all know by now, 47 million merkins cannot afford/do not have health insurance.
    We know this because the media and your government have told you so.
    1) 47 million is an estimate from the census bureau annual report. Included are 10 million illegal immigrants.
    2) so 37 million merkin citizens cannot afford/do not have health insurance.
    3) Again according to the census bureau, 17 million merkins making more than 5oK a year choose voluntarily not to buy health insurance.
    ( I guess that 50K a year is a magical number for a family of one.)
    4) 20 million merkin citizens cannot afford health insurance.
    5) people between jobs are included in the 20 mill
    6) a few million more getting free health care from medicare or from the govt who don’t need to buy health insurance
    7) As we all know Hate Facts are those inconvenient things that just diminish the kabuki.
    So there are maybe 8 – 10 million merkins congenitally unable to afford health insurance … out of a population of 320 million or so.
    Unfortunately, one has to trust the Census bureau in order to distrust the politicized facts about how many cannot or willnot buy health insurance. Oh alas oh alack trust is so easily lost.
    I have a modest suggestion, instead of wasting time on health insurance, I suggest that the country motivate itself to return to the spoils system of governance. Civil service is neither civil
    nor a servant. Time to replace it with the traditional methods of governance that served this great nation this shining city on the hill so well for its first hundred years. To the victor belong the spoils/patronage.

  26. WNC Observer

    Elaine:

    An issue to be discussed (worth a dedicated post of its own): Why the US government has allowed almost all of our vaccine production to be offshored, and what a disaster this is going to end up being. We can debate about whether or not this particular vaccine is or is not going to be effective, but the fact remains that sooner or later we are going to be hit by something massive, something that could be controlled by mass vaccination, but that we’ll end up with too little, too late. All because we will not have reliable sources of supply within our own country.

  27. ralph

    Elaine,
    I love you. However, your recommendation to drink flouridated water and accept vaccines is so ASSENINE I can’t believe you typed it. Please read the book MURDER BY INJECTION:The story of the medical conspiracy against America by Eustace Mullins. There are specific chapters dedicated to fluoridation and vaccination. Mr.Mullins research is 100% FACT. All of it retrieved from the library of Congress. Your arguments are pathetic and this book will straighten you out. Please read it. Ill send you a copy if you dont want to buy it. Its worth the time.

  28. excellent point WNC Observer especially by virtue of its wide applicability in concpet to more than just vaccinations. Thanks for that post (comment?).

    I don’t plan on getting vaccinated just now. A roll of the dice perhaps, but a calculated one based upon my current understanding of probabilities. Our brains are calculating such things all the time….day and night. Perhaps especially at night when we dream.

    So as an aside if you happened to catch my previous post regarding a momma bear and her two cubs, we also saw on the side of the road a lonely coyote (or was it a lost young red wolf?). Hard to tell the difference; especially since we just drove by. Still – saw the fine creature in the Smokies! All indications per my recent visit are that that land is returning to some healthy balance – nice to see every now and then. We also managed to walk in some old growth forest, but it wasn’t easy.

    Peace,
    Ken

  29. Let me be clearer – I agree. We should make more of what we need locally and we can. So those who are opposing this common sense plan ought be exposed for what they are. Profiteers seems to me. But worse than that. Profiteers who care naught for any but their own self. Short-sighted for sure.

    Win or lose some ideas are like viruses – they refuse to go away……

  30. People have lost trust because commerce has destroyed any respect for the truth in the rush to selll stuff. We float on BS. Supkis has it right here… it was medicines success in antibiotics and vaccines that gave it the cred to medicate us all up the wazoo with satins and beta blockers and all that shite.

    But being clean and using a toilet and fresh water and sunlight and getting vaccinated and taking Vit D and fishoil and antibotics when you get a rabid inflection; trench mouth after a punch, say. Thats it! There are good for trauma and the basics and really weird stuff. But say after from pills after fifty, imo.

  31. JSmith

    “It is a short slippery slope from advocacy of concentration camps for non-vaccinators to advocacy of ovens and genocide.”

    You appear to be well ahead of me on the slippery slope, CK: I said, “[non-vaccinators] need to form their own self-contained holistic communities …”.

    There’s nothing in that sentence about advocating concentration camps. (But perhaps I’m missing something.)

    The downside of vacccination, of course, is that it circumvents nature’s population controls: prior to vaccination (and modern standards of hygeine), a certain percentage of the population would die off due to (preventable) disease – moreover, a healthy fraction of those were children who had not yet reached reproductive age (so those children never had offspring.) Hence, our current difficulty with out-of-control population growth.

    Since I seem to be the only person raising that as an issue, that may make me as much of a nutcase as Eustace Mullins.

    I worry me, sometimes.

  32. CK

    @JSmith
    The difference between a “self contained, holistic community” and a concentration camp; is the distance to the guard towers and how high the barb wire fencing is. If the non-vaccinators don’t wish to go to your arbeit mach frei condos, some uniformed government tax-suckers will be available to “encourage” them, and to guarantee that the non vaccinators stay quarantined/self contained and holistic.

  33. emsnews

    Smith, I made my point about this population surge in the article above, if you read it carefully. Inoculations, far from killing off everyone, has been the #1 force behind the global population surge.

  34. emsnews

    CK: in past epidemics 150 years ago, whole communities were quarantined. And anyone leaving them were shot. All communities that wish to survive have to have this sort of draconian rule when it comes to diseases. Before vaccinations, locking up the sick in obscure places like islands (Wards Island, for example) was virtually the only way governments could control plagues.

  35. Well, all this talk is fine, but so far to me all indications are that this swine flu is presently “benign”.

    Maybe the safest thing would to just all get exposed to it while it remains benign, and then if it mutates to something more lethal, then most will already have a solid natural defense. Better than what can be had from some profiteer’s vaccination.

    You know?

  36. Many, many reputable sources are now claiming that the 2009-H1N1 flu vaccine that is being rushed into production is extremely dangerous. Some are even claiming that the vaccine will kill many who receive it. I don’t know if these claims are valid or not. I do know one thing that is most disturbing:

    I spend 2/3rds of my on-line time reading technical journals; physics, biology, etc. For some reason the reliable journals that would routinely report events relating to 2009-H1N1 are either silent or missing. The sheer scale of this is alarming.

    Perhaps the best source for breaking news about 2009-H1N1 is the general news site:

    CLG News

    Here are some other related articles that you should read, since you may soon be forced by the police to receive a 2009-H1N1 flu shot:

    Independent UK: Safety questions over swine flu jab

    Telegraph.co.uk: Homeless people die after bird flu vaccine trial in Poland

    ABC News: Tamiflu Developer: Swine Flu Could Have Come From Bio-Experiment Lab

    Something very strange is happening fast!

  37. emsnews

    Note that I actually try to count the numbers of whatever I talk about. I don’t see ‘many, many articles’ claiming what you say. I see in ONE SECTOR, these articles. Not in other sectors. You must look at EVERYTHING when talking about these sorts of things.

    The internet has great depth and spread. One can find ‘many’ things of all sorts on the web. Trying to balance this out is another matter altogether.

    About that stupid article in Poland: it is not based on the information that they know what killed these homeless people. It simply said, they had died in slightly greater numbers than other people. NOT a good statistical average.

    There is zero proof this was due to the vaccination tests. Zero.

  38. emsnews

    Buffalo, if we are ‘all exposed to it’ it will MUTATE. That is, as it spreads, it changes. This is the nature of the virus empire! This is how it operates. Over time, we build immunity to some virus and then it is replaced by another one which can colonize our bodies. For this is how the virus empire has always operated: when it finds a large biological niche, it colonizes it.

  39. But when you get a vaccination you are only exposed to “a part of it” (as best I know), and in my humble opinion, for this mysterious bird-swine-human flu “matrix”, I’d just assume be exposed to the actual virus and trust upon my own body’s personal defenses. Then if it comes back mutated (mutations will happen either way), my body will be more prepared to defend because it will have already fought off (or not – small chance but a risk that I’m willing to accept) the previous incarnation of the virus.

    This virus is not yet lethal for most and in comparison to other viruses, and therefore, why push the matter into realms which we may not yet understand scientifically. I trust my body and sometimes it is better to just “hunker down” I suppose. In this instance, that is my current intent.

    If I catch a “flu” then I will keep myself isolated as best I can. To many decisions today are taking away civil liberties and this is really topical as it pertains to vaccination for facilitating supposed immunity.

    DYODD

  40. Plus, it is like everything else. If it is a “rush-job” or a “high-pressure” production effort, then mistakes will be made (human error). The risk of these sort of mistakes exceeds the value of any vaccination that will be ready by this fall.

    This is all just my freaking opinion.

    Make your own choice.

  41. Elaine,

    The article about the incident in Poland:

    Telegraph.co.uk: Homeless people die after bird flu vaccine trial in Poland

    — Is not about A/H1N1 at all; it merely demonstrates that homeless people are being unknowingly being experimented on. It leads to the question of how serious researchers might be about ethics, and about containment practices in particular.

    The medical staff, from the northern town of Grudziadz, are being investigated over medical trials on as many as 350 homeless and poor people last year, which prosecutors say involved an untried vaccine to the highly-contagious virus.

    Authorities claim that the alleged victims received £1-2 to be tested with what they thought was a conventional flu vaccine but, according to investigators, was actually an anti bird-flu drug.

    I said “Many, many reputable sources are now claiming that the 2009-H1N1 flu vaccine that is being rushed into production is extremely dangerous.“; not‘many, many articles’ claiming what you say..”

    You also said: I see in ONE SECTOR, these articles. Not in other sectors. You must look at EVERYTHING when talking about these sorts of things.

    So what have I been saying? I have been saying that my scientific sources seem to be generally concerned that some of the vaccines for A/H1N1 may be more dangerous that the 0.45% mortality risk of the disease itself. (Although the disease is spreading rapidly, and some researchers have held that this would correlate with increasing virulence.) I have also said that the coverage of the vaccination issues (outside the “duct tape” community) is unexpectedly low-key. Also, this flu has four components, bird, swine, and human, and include material from the 1918 flu; so it could well be a refugee from the containment of some research facility.

    I pay only a small amount of attention to the “duct tape” media.

  42. emsnews

    Again: these individuals died BUT NO ONE KNOWS THE CAUSE. There was no autopsies, nothing. It is all probabilities. Which is very weak when we jump to conclusions.

  43. Has anyone jumped to a conclusion? Not me. Not all of the data (PLURAL) are in, and never will IT be (that the data are all in).

    So probabilities are necessary in order to make an informed decision.

    Like today, I started on the plumbing job (clogged kitchen sink), but after I pulled out all the piping basically to the wall, it became most evident that the clog was further on down……Tried to blow it out with high pressure water, but that failed.

    I knew when it was time for me to quit.

    I called the plumber!

    Happy Eclipse day for those lucky enough (mainly India I think) to experience. Don’t hide from an eclipse – heavenly bodies are just interacting. I think it is a beautiful thing.

    Peace,
    Ken

  44. of course, the interaction is obviously a function of perspective – otherwise, why can’t I see it?

    That is a rhetorical question because I already know the answer.

  45. Elaine,

    What “conclusions?” I did conclude that the homeless subjects were presumably lied-to by the medical researchers. So the trust factor is dropping fast. Am I at all mistaken? I think not.

  46. emsnews

    I don’t know if they were lied to, the reason it made the news was not that issue, it was that they died at a somewhat higher rate than other similar populations.

    On the other hand, if no one wants inoculations, that is perfectly OK with me. Whatever floats people’s boats.

    One thing about death: it stalks us every day. It is literally right around the corner.

  47. Experimental Drug subjects die quickly.

    No autopsies? Hmm.

  48. JSmith

    “The difference between a ‘self contained, holistic community’ and a concentration camp; is the distance to the guard towers and how high the barb wire fencing is.”

    So… the difference between the self-contained communities of the Amish, for example, and a concentration camp is the distance to the guard towers and how high the barb wire fencing is?

    I don’t think so.

    “I made my point about this population surge in the article above…”

    So you did. And what do you know: we agree on something. That seems to happen once or twice a year.

    “Homeless people die after bird flu vaccine trial in Poland”

    Insert obvious Polish joke here!

    Elaine: “CK: in past epidemics 150 years ago, whole communities were quarantined. And anyone leaving them were shot. All communities that wish to survive have to have this sort of draconian rule when it comes to diseases.”

    That is correct. Quarantines were put in place during polio epidemics as recently as the 1950s.

    Can’t do that now, though – even infectious disease vectors have rights.

  49. they don’t have rights I think, but they don’t care whether we give this to them or not cause these viruses do as they please.

    They are way more optimized than us.

    But, on the other hand (we do have 2), we sort of arose from them, so we have the upper hand. If they kill us all off, then they will miss out on the best vector for their “self-defined” community goals.

    Our best defense is our individual bodies and are ability to also form commities. Multi-functional.

    Don’t you think JSmith – 2 to tango and such? Man this is an incredible conversation and I am humbly thrilled to be here.

  50. not “commities” …..

    COMMUNITIES….

    but come on, it is obvious, you can’t force law.

  51. JSmith

    “Don’t you think JSmith – 2 to tango and such? ”

    That’s basically correct. Your successful virus doesn’t kill its host: that defeats the purpose, since the virus (or basically any pathogen) needs the host to spread its progeny around.

    Research indicates that many diseases (the more popular STDs, for example) were much deadlier centuries ago, and have evolved to sicken the host organism but not kill it quickly. (The mechanism is pretty simple, really: those viruses that kill their hosts quickly don’t get spread as widely as those that don’t, so the ones that don’t then become the dominant strain.)

    A really successful germ or virus doesn’t do anything at all to its host: it infects, multiplies, and gets passed on without the host organism ever knowing it’s there.

  52. Correct, JSmith. This is how evolution works. The bubonic plague killed nearly a third of Europe before settling down to being a bothersome disease, ditto, syphillis which came over from the rape of the New World, literally rape.

    The flu goes through this cycle every 50-100 years, weaker flues show up after a violent ravaging flu. Then a totally new one pops up.

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