Dutch Guys Want To Print Their Own Funny Money

I found yet another story about a group of people trying to take the role of governments and banks by printing money themselves and handing it out, for a profit.  This is illegal, of course.  Only governments or the international bankers who control governments get to do this.  And this story from Holland about a trio of young men who want to print money and then exchange it for euros, is a great way to explain the flaws and dangers of banking systems in general.

wizards release the goddess of infinityΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

 

savethemales.ca – Dutch Barter System Challenges Bankers

My name is Anthony Migchels and I am the initiator of the “Gelre,” the first Regional Currency in the Netherlands. My organization is a foundation, not for profit, not a company, because I believe credit should be a public facility, serving the people that actually OWN the credit, instead of milking them dry with what is rightfully theirs. The Gelre foundation is run by a board of three.

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We now have almost a hundred companies participating and the break even point should come at about 300, after that we can get an income out of it. But the real goal is, to hook up 66% of all companies in Gelderland, a province in the Netherlands with 1.2 million inhabitants and 60k companies. A GDP of about 40 billion Euro.

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This is how gnomes are created: the guys launching this new currency scheme are all very noble and sweet and want simply to share the wealth.  Then, one paragraph into the story, things change.  This trio of mini-gnomes want to make a profit!  HAHAHAHA.  As I read this story, I began to see how easy it is to lure people into imagining they can make pieces of paper more valuable.

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That is, this trio of young scamps are going to ape their elders, the guys who created the entire banking system in the first place.  Nothing these guys are doing is anything new.  And the hazards that plague the money creation system is very much part of the technical system these guys think they created, themselves.

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That is, this is nothing new.  Except for one key element: it is being done by people who don’t already control the government.  No paper money system ever survives without the backing of governments and the law.  And military muscle.  That is, there has to be enforcement systems.  For example, these guys printing this gelre stuff can’t stop counterfeiters.  All governments have to have very elaborate detection/enforcement systems to stop simple counterfeiting.

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Of course, the true problem is the ‘counterfeiting’ is embedded inside of the credit creation system which is why paper money loses value even if it is carefully protected from illegal printing presses.

. We are going to give away millions of Gelre (1 Gelre = 1 Euro). Why not? We print it for nothing! We don’t use that money to stuff these piggybanksters, but we hand it over to the people!! And they can spend it at the businesses that join. These businesses can actually convert their Gelre income to Euro (at a small cost).

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HAHAHA. So, they print money and give it away, Robin Hood-style? And then the lucky recipients can rush out and exchange it for services. Then, the businesses can go to these Robin Hooders and get it turned into euros but only if they take a haircut? Whereas, if someone does business with euros, this charge is not made.

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Of course, if these guys hand out millions of this counterfeit money (yes, it is counterfeit) people will want endless counterfeit money so they can rush out and buy stuff. The problem here is obvious: this will turn the Robin Hood paper money into Zimbabwe dollars. At first, the businesses are happy, taking a haircut so long as they can swiftly turn it into euros.

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But eventually the ‘bank’ run by these guys runs out of euros to redeem. The haircut will get bigger, very fast.

. We are going to play Santa Clause and all that money is going to circulate forever, continuing to create business. A skyrocketing Gelre Economy in the depths of a very severe depression. Nobody can get a Eurodime, but we give away millions of Gelre!!

.The Western culture is plagued by the Santa Claus concept.  Our economic systems are hinged to this belief system to the point, it creates a series of immense waves of commerce that get worse each decade.  In my grandfather’s childhood, there was barely any Christmas at all and virtually no present giving even in the upper classes.

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This has grown into a monster.  Just like gambling, it rolls out of control and it is mostly negative in nature.  It teaches the worst possible lessons.  Instead of viewing wealth accumulation as a process involving labor and materials, it is all about magic and things appearing out of thin air.

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Of course, this trio of free money makers wonder why governments don’t hand out money.  Alas, governments are doing this!  But they have to put it on a ledger.  That is, it is the budget deficits and this money making is then sold to investors who expect to collect a fee…um, like these dudes want to collect a fee!

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Of course most of the Gelres we put into circulation will be lent out (without interest, but of course with some (very cheap) price, we have bills to pay) in a mutual credit kind of scheme, or sold for Euro (for the benefit of the stabilization fund), but a reasonably small percentage can be simply given away….

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HAHAHA.  I have written a large number of stories about how paper money is all about borrowing.  If you read the fine print on a dollar, it says it this is script to pay off debts!  One of the great problems of banking today is, the curb on paper money creation was supposed to be the bank’s ability to pay off loans EVEN when the borrower defaults.

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Of course, this has been hijacked.  Banks at the very top of the apex no longer pay the price when they create money recklessly via lending and instead of going bankrupt, get 100% capitalization from the governments!  So they roll merrily on.

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The scheme of this Dutch trio is every bit as noxious as the main systems.  And of course, the main systems must be reformed.  But what these guys are offering are no reforms, it is identical and has the same and even worse problems.

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Believe it or not, but De Nederlandsche Bank (Dutch central bank,) run by Nout Wellink who is on the board of BIS and a member of the Trilaterals) shut down my on-line telebank service. A clear sign I was on the right track :-). They did so because of a prohibition on collecting ‘reclaimable money’ (a direct translation of judicial lingo, I’m not sure an English speaking lawyer will know what this means)….

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These guys go off the edge of the cliff as they imagine their nifty scheme is being shot down by mean elites. It is, of course, an illegal scheme. The ethical problems it has are worse than the mainstream bankers for the obvious reason, this isn’t based on a government system and therefore, is unenforceable. This sounds like a circular argument.

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But it is an important one! No paper money system can survive if it doesn’t have legal/government/police powers behind it! And it is very easy to abuse by these powers. This is inherent in the entire concept. If printing money and then handing it out like candy solves economic problems, we would never have economic problems. Everyone would simply print up free IOUs and hand them out.

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Except over time, it would be worth less than the paper it is printed on which is why adding zeros as fast as possible is the only tactic that seems to work until you hit the mega-trillion zeros and run out of room. So far, no money creator has figured out that they could do what astronomers do, that is, have a tiny number next to the big number denoting how many zeros there are. The simplest way is to print money with the infinity symbol on it.

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This is the Cave of Wealth and Death at work! Infinity and Zero are sisters. All paper systems trend towards using as many zeroes as possible and since adding numbers is easy, they all go to infinity. If money making isn’t restricted in some fashion. .

…In this way, you create convertibility not by having Euro or Dollars deposited, but by more classical means: foreign exchange markets have been around for quite some time, but only for bank money. Speculation is out of the question, because in the network 1 Gelre=1 Euro always.

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My foundation simply always sells Gelre for 95 cents, so it is no use offering your Gelres for more.

.And because 1 Gelre has a purchasing power of 1 Euro in the network, there is always a natural demand for Gelre because its buyer gets a de facto discount of at least 5%.. Of course you want a stable rate for the Gelre, close to its target of 0,95 cents. This is achieved by correctly managing the amount of Gelre you issue. If you issue too many, people will dump it on the market and your unit goes down the drain: nobody will accept it if its rate goes down too much. .

Talk about silly!  Of course, no one is going to get more for their Gelre paper money, it will always be offered at a discount.  Since these guys are handing it out like Santa Claus, it will be fated to lose tremendous value over time.  These Giler guys don’t understand that they are not emotionally or intellectually capable of limiting these paper products so that it doesn’t lose value.

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First off, they, themselves, will give themselves more and more of this paper money so they can buy stuff.  At first, they will rationalize this.  Running their new bank takes up time!  And they are generous to everyone, handing out paper for free.  Why not use it, themselves?  And of course, this new tulip bulb business will see the usual effects of greed and the temptations of easy money created out of thin air.

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…..To be honest, the bankers couldn’t care less about the paper, if they can replace it by gold. Money is one of the few commodities that we can produce infinitely at virtually no cost. The art of the trade is to create plentiful money, without overdoing it. Even a limited amount of inflation is OK, as long as people are aware of it, are compensated for it and don’t save the money.

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HAHAHA. Later in their own article, they admit everything. People misunderstand how bankers operate. The only reason they wanted gold was simple: it is LIMITED. And hard to get. And doesn’t vanish, tarnish or have other hazards. It can’t waste away. And being rare compared to other things, it can’t be debased easily.

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The discovery of the New World upended European gold markets.  A huge tsunami of gold poured into Europe and there was inflation.  Europe dealt with this by taking the gold and using it for international trade with China.

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That is, gold is all about international trade.  Usually, people don’t need gold for local transactions except in times of stress such as wars, droughts, chaos, etc.  But resolving trade deals, gold was the best means of not losing value—taking a haircut—when making deals with distant parties.

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Note how these Dutch banking geniuses artlessly point out the flaws in their scheme!  They think inflation is OK!  HAHAHA.  And they imagine their ZIRP system will work…if no one saves money!  That is, these budding Weimar bankers know deep in their little hearts that no one dares hold these Gelre.  These Dutch guys get downright nasty:

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Saving money is always a bad idea anyway, because it withholds money from circulation, but that is another story. The point is, that if you have a reasonable entity issuing the money, its supply will be stable and cheap. The Gelre will also prove that gold is as big a hoax as is interest bearing debt.

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HAHAHA.  Like all guys wishing to raid the Cave of Wealth and Death using paper with lots of zeroes on it, these guys hate virtues.  Saving money is a virtue, not a vice.  Gamblers do not save money.  The criminal classes don’t save money.  Modern bankers hate having to pay interest on saving money!  This is the ZIRP system in action: the ideal world for bankers is to pay no interest to savers while forcing people to take a 5% haircut on money circulation!

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DUH!  When people get loans that are based on capital, the bankers have to give some money to savers who have capital. These people, in turn, allow the bankers to ‘grow’ their money via lending it.  The bankers must share the profits from lending with savers who take their own money out of the system and hand it over to the bankers to make it grow in value for both the savers and the bankers.

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But if the bankers decide they  need to capital base for lending and make money for free, they no longer pay savers for their capital. So savers have to depart from the system!  Any banking system that decides it doesn’t need anyone paying off loans or saving money ends up like Zimbabwe.  The Japanese and now G7 ZIRP system seems as if it is working…but only if there is a depression!

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But all parties are most anxious to end the depression so everyone is printing money like mad.  So….are there any savers in this ZIRP system?

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The answer is immensely important: China is the mega-saver in this system.  That is China, and also Japan in the case of US dollars—is saving the money so it doesn’t lose value rapidly.  But if China were to disgorge all this paper money suddenly, the value of the paper money will plummet.

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This is why paying China very low interest rates on our loans is going to increasingly irritate the Chinese.  If they refuse to buy the loans or hold the dollars, the value of both will collapse and the need to get someone, anyone to buy our debts or hold our dollars will shoot upwards rapidly.

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Also, people with dollars will want to get rid of them as fast as possible.  So money will circulate much faster which is inflation.  Right now, people are saving money as fast as they can due to having few places to deposit it safely so they are saving it by buying gold and other valuable things.  So we have tremendous inflation showing up in the oldest international trade resolution devices in history: gold.

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It doesn’t take brains to recreate the wheel.  There is no perpetual energy machine that will give us something for nothing.  The limits of natural systems applies to money creation.  The concept of limits is very important to all money or financial systems.  The energies of many people involved in making wealth via making money have to be devoted to limiting money creation, not being Santa Claus.  This emphatically includes all governments.  They have to encourage and enable savers who are the ones who prevent floods of free money from overwhelming systems.

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Savers are the saviors of all monetary systems.  The money creators who print the money are the demonic destroyers who have to be controlled and limited severely.  Or all will be lost.  The fact that the Dutch Gelre trio hate savers tells us exactly who they are: destroyers, not creators.  They want to use the magic of money to make a profit!  For themselves!

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And therefore, are not good but are bad guys.  But then, the temptation to create money out of nothing is very severe.  And is the chief lure to get people to go into the Cave of Wealth and Death and be utterly destroyed there.

 

sunset borger

 

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33 Comments

Filed under .money matters

33 responses to “Dutch Guys Want To Print Their Own Funny Money

  1. Hi, I’m Alvaro Noboa, this time i want to congratulate
    for your blog because is a way to express what people think, and also invite you to visit the
    Museo Luis Noboa Naranjo we are organizing the second
    biennial of Guayaquil, we believe that we can encrease the friendship of
    the people of the world and exalt the creative capacity of the same.

  2. Gentlepeople!

    – Creating money is not illegal, as long as you do not claim it to be legal tender.
    – Saving MONEY is not a good thing. If you want your wealth to move to the future, don’t save money, but invest, pay up front or buy durable goods.
    – Please get off the gold hoax. You can get rich investing gold, that’s true. But is not money.
    – We are going to give money away, but not so much as to cause inflation, as was worked out pretty clearly in the article. The amount of money you need in circulation is a function of the economic capacity of the network within which the money circulates.
    – The problem is not creating money, the problem is usury. See http://www.margritkennedy.de/index.php?id=105&ord=56 to get to grips on the nature of interest.
    – Every enterprise, even if it is not for profit costs money. It is quite reasonable for the users of the money to pay for it. If you believe you don’t pay for your money now, you’ve got some work to do, I’ll refer you back to Margrit Kennedy.
    – Money is a very simple subject, but it DOES require a little study! Don’t believe the Mieses people to much, they’re simply misguided with their metals fascination.
    – You do realize that their champion, Ron Paul, is a mason, don’t you?

    Thanks for analyzing the article!
    Anthony Migchels

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    ELAINE: Any fool can print money which is why so many countries print money and why this often leads to financial collapse. The hubris of the Dutch guys who think they can hand out millions of ‘Gelres’ while not creating a monetary collapse is astonishing. How childish is this? ‘Usury’ does exist! But the entire reason for interest rates is to ENCOURAGE people to NOT circulate paper money! That is, it has to be set aside in ‘reserves’.

    Note that there is no talk in this comment about my contention that FOREX holdings are the main forms of ‘reserves’ (ie: savings) that is hanging over the heads of the money printers like a very, very sharp sword.

    If this sword finally drops on our heads, it will destroy our finances totally and completely.

  3. CK

    Actually Dr Paul is a gynecologist, although he has not practiced for some years now.

  4. Hilarious!! I’m getting some popcorn.

  5. DM

    While Elaine is away …

    Thucydides in the Underworld
    by J. R. Nyquist

    http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/pastanalysis/2009/1106.html

  6. DrKrbyLuv

    HOT: Dr. Gary Null Exposes Vaccine Scam and Dangers in New York State Assembly Hearing!

    [video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gavenB_AJ9A&feature=player_embedded#%5D

    [video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QEhPnlUlk&feature=player_embedded%5D

    [video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsyT3dN9gEY&feature=player_embedded%5D

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: Your monominded moronic postings are immensely annoying.

  7. nah

    yeah people who invest in ‘capitol’ should get a reasonable percentage
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    thats another thing rising gold and tanking dollars…. keeping prices stagnant…. cheap credit that puts all the upside in the speculator camp…. there is no force in modern commerce that gives people who have ‘real capitol’ a fair margin
    .
    especially considering the faults of the banks… they are cheap whores who consider nothing in the favor of easy money to reward themselves in EVERY investment from market synergies to commodities…
    .
    banks get all the upside… even at zero to negative returns
    .

    .
    freedom isnt ‘free’

  8. nah

    Ford Unveils New Car For Cash-Strapped Buyers
    http://www.theonion.com/content/video/ford_unveils_new_car_for_cash
    .
    GM corvette is an icon of US progress no more… now showing-> Taurus

  9. nah

    Gus
    November 8, 2009 at 3:52 am
    .
    AFL-CIO and Dems contemplating
    a tax on stock trades:
    .
    if theres going to be another stimulus it better be a tax cut on business… if the FED can say that rates will be low for 5 years
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    the government can say that rates will be low for 5 years
    .
    when did we subjugate the people to the regulatory fopauh of holy roman independant regulators… who suck in ‘reality’ and represent nearly no-one

  10. nah

    House passes sweeping healthcare overhaul
    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE59M4PB20091108
    .
    huge victory… im in favor of something that doesnt look at taxpayers as easy pickings ‘even tho we already are’
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    this is a win that will form my view of democratic legislation for decades…
    .
    which believe it or not is the same for welfare reform from clinton which was another huge success
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    i hope democrats are successful, its easy to call poor people lazy….. very difficult to call corporations lazy…. legislation was in itself bold, lets see what actually got passed

  11. nah

    what landmark legislation did bush pass…
    .
    medicare D?
    .
    energy deregulation?
    .
    patriot act?
    .
    executive expansion?
    .
    signing statements?
    .
    torture ‘which i am not a fan of’
    policy decides war not 300 people no matter how easy war seems…. put our enemy’s on their heels and keep them there for 5 years, the reward will make torture seem disgusting and undercomplicated…. im all for killing our enemys…. torture is a perverse way to accommodate failure

  12. nah

    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5A703O20091108
    But Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. military’s Joint Chiefs of Staff, said earlier this week that the re-elected president’s legitimacy among the Afghan people was “at best, in question right now and, at worst, doesn’t exist.”
    .
    does torture make the truth any easier
    .
    war and occupation is a numbers game…. government is a sophisticated and nuanced germ of opinion….
    .
    the US was blessed by great men of honorable intent that forged a prideful nation…. afghanistan is more hungry than lucky

  13. DM

    Amidst the bold sweeping advances of the USA, just for fun …

    http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo1.html

  14. Hi Elaine,

    – Oh, I totally agree that far too much money has been printed by our banking masters. The western money supply has been growing at 9% per annum pace for decades. That means doubling the money supply ever 7 years. A lot of that money is in the coffers of exporting nations, like China and Japan. It is indeed true, that if this money returns into circulation it will lead to great price rises.
    – Nations don’t print money. The banking cartel do. They taken over the control of the money supply. You are familiar with the famous Rothschild quotes on the subject, I reckon? “Give me control of a nation’s money supply, and I care not who makes its laws” Mind you, Rothschild spoke those words in the age of Gold.
    – It is true that one of the effects of interest is slower circulation. This is however not its ‘raison d’etre’: interest is for plundering, not to encourage saving.
    – Ok, now to the real deal: millions of Gelre in circulation without a monetary collapse.
    A euro goes around 8 times a year. This means in Euroland one euro finances 8 euro’s worth of trade.
    Gelres will circulate an estimated 20 times a year. Faster, because there is no interest. This means that with one Gelre we can finance 20 Gelre (euro) worth of trade.
    If we have a 10 million turnover in the network, we need 500k Gelre in circulation.
    if we have 100 million turnover, we need 5 million in circulation. For a billion 50 million.
    The Gelre has been designed to facilitate about one third of the Gelderland economy, which stands at about 40 billion a year.
    That means 13 billion divided by 20 = 650 million Gelre. So ultimately we COULD give away 650 million without creating inflation.
    Of course, if we would simply dole out 650 million Gelre in the beginning, we would bust the whole thing.
    So we begin with a few thousands here and there, then more businesses join, the economic capacity of the network grows and we can give away some more, etc, etc.
    – Again, the problem is not creating money. Money is simply a commodity that needs to be created, otherwise there would be none.
    The point is, is the money cheap? Is its supply stable?
    Or is it being inflated and deflated for the purpose of manipulation?
    Is it interest bearing to shear the flock, or is it free, to serve the public?

    Please check out the Kennedy essay ‘why we need monetary innovation’.

    All the best,
    Anthony

  15. emsnews

    If your ‘money’ circulates faster, this means it will lose value faster. Speed of circulation=inflation. Money is ridiculously cheap to create: all you need is numbers and zeros to make the numbers grow really fast.

    And this is why it is not ‘easy’ in the sense, ‘will it keep value?’ but not easy to STOP. It usually stops when it collapses. Voluntarily stopping it is always nearly impossible due to natural greed.

    And yes, many governments do make money. The G7 uses the fiction of ‘independent central banks’ to ‘prevent inflation’ but these things don’t work, due to natural human greed.

  16. nono emsnews,
    the real money supply is a function of amount in circulations and speed of circulation.
    Inflation, in its original definition means ‘inflating the money supply’, not rising prices.
    It is true that often prices rise, if you inflate the money supply, but not necessarily.

    Human greed is what drives our current system, but it is not real to simply accept it as an unstoppable force of nature. It is not.

    Systems can be created that manage greed and corruption. What is needed, is a populace actually interested in their real interests, for instance sound money.

    The New Gelre will report real time, on-line
    the amount in circulation, the amount of euro in the stabilization fund and all other key indicators about the system.

    This takes away any possibility of manipulation.

    It is good to be weary of institutions. They tend to be selfish.

    But it needn’t be so, if we keep our eyes open.

    There are plenty possibilities for real reform. We can organize in ways that do not allow individuals to wield more power than they can cope with.

    If we can’t we’re doomed.

    Anthony

  17. DrKrbyLuv

    Austrian & Keynesian Theories Vs. Mathematical Facts

    George Orwell’s classic 1984 describes “doublethink” as holding two contradictory beliefs simultaneously and accepting both. To do so denies the existence of objective reality. A good example is the belief in economic theories that contradict mathematical facts.

    Both Austrian and Keynesian economic theories hold fundamental beliefs that do not square up with math. The exponential growth of debt in our debt based money system is ignored and refuted by both theories. In place of math, we are offered beliefs such as the “quantity theory of money.”

    To deny the exponential growth of debt cuts to the very core and credibility of monetary theories. If the exponential growth can be proven, then equally, Austrian and Keynesian theories are dis-proven. Economic theories hide the fact that a debt based money system is usury by definition and neither Austrian nor Keynesian theories are sustainable. Both systems create bankruptcies and defaults while enriching banks at the expense of the people.

    The inherent and terminal mathematical flaw of debt based systems can be proven anecdotally. Our total money supply (M3) is around $15 trillion while our national and private debt total around $55 trillion. How do we pay an existing $55 trillion in debt with a total of $15 trillion? We are short $40 trillion, where will that money come from?

    In our debt based monetary system there is only one way to add money and that is through new debt. Eventually, the $40 trillion must be borrowed. If the money is borrowed, it will add new debt of over $40 trillion (principal + interest). The debt can only grow, it can never be repaid as the gap between money and debt will continue to increase.

    The two economic theories will try to explain away this reality by claiming that the velocity of money can be increased so that a given amount of money can be used for more transactions. This is true when we spend money but it is not true when we repay debt. When debt is repaid it is extinguished, that is that the money ceases to exist which means that money can only be used to repay principal debt once. Most of the interest debt returns to circulation but never the less, the gap between money and debt will still increase since only the principal is created through new debt which brings new interest.

    The specie of money doesn’t matter. If our money were backed by gold, the gold would simply be transferred to those who collect the interest. We saw this in 1933 when the gold standard collapsed and we lost most of our gold.

    The two prevailing economic theories give us a false sense of choice just like the two party system of Democrats and Republicans. The science of money has been replaced by a belief system just like in the dark ages when science was dominated and defined by religious beliefs. If the next renaissance is to happen, it will come when the science of money displaces unfounded beliefs.

    We are suffering from an intellectual amnesia. The Babylonians of antiquity understood the destructive power of debt interest and at one time Christianity and Judaism forbid it as sinful usury. The Islamic faith still forbids debt interest and perhaps that is a reason that we are clashing.

    Our debt based monetary system is a form of usury that will result in the transfer of all wealth from the many to the few. The intended outcome is debt slavery and tyranny under the cruel boots of oligarchs – a financial aristocracy.

    People are becoming discontent and they sense that something is terribly awry. To rebel against the status quo invariably leads to another tyranny as we have seen through democratic elections and third world rebellions.

    If a successful peoples revolution is to happen it will really be an awakening. A higher consciousness where we come to understand how and why the game has been rigged by flawed monetary theories.

  18. Well it is simple……and we all really know that debt cannot go on forever (even Nanci Pelosi).

    So if you make your living off of debt be prepared for a learning.

    Simple.

    Peace,
    Ken

  19. I am 35 year old graduate. I am only one son of my parents. My father was a business man, he lost big money in his business and Bankrupt in 1986, that time I was in high school. Bank officials harrased him very cruely , they took legal steps to my father and post aution sale for our house and he suffered mental agony and died of heart attack on 1990. After my father death my mother faced many obstacles, now she is an arthritis patient, she cant walk with out anyones help. The last 19 years I have been fighting legally with bank, I lost all my hard earned money, now I am big zero and struggling for my daily needs. Now they are going to sale my house by auction for US$ 60,000.00. I don’t know where I can go with my mother? I am asking only one dollar per person, that the cost of your bed coffee or cigar (you can donate as much as you can). My paypal id is forrysakki@rediffmail.com or use the below link
    By Sakki

  20. emsnews

    Why do we have to have interest rates at all? The answer is obvious: someone, somewhere HAS to ‘save money’ or it ceases to have any holding power. Savers capitalize banking. If we base banking on zero holdings, it collapses extremely fast.

    Example: Japan has ZIRP banking but this isn’t based on no capitalization. Oh, no. For Japan has the world’s #2 FOREX holdings which is another word for ‘saving money’!

    The US just instituted a ZIRP system based not on holdings but on debts. This is very bad. We think we can imitate Japan only we aren’t imitating Japan by holding a trillion euros, for example.

    Our FOREX holds only $22 billion in euros compared to Europe holding collectively, nearly a trillion US dollars. The only reason the US dollar has any value at all is due to Europe and Asia still wishing to export heavily to US markets.

    So they continue to save US dollars. This ceases, the dollar dies.

    Now, if the Dutch money scheme claims that by tracking their fake currency based on virtually no savings, this will PREVENT people from speculating. Well, people will speculate against this scheme because the HOLDERS will be scared the money will collapse in value and thus, get rid of it really fast while the getting is still good.

    Thus, leading to businesses foolish enough to accept this ‘money’ to refuse it or raise prices (like in Europe before the euro, everyone had different prices for different currencies or outright refused to accept currencies!).

    So the businesses everyone really wants to use will be the first to refuse this new ‘money’ and soon, only the desperate businesses will accept it and all the poor holders of these paper scripts will have to use these bad businesses and then…it is all downhill, fast.

  21. @emsnews
    Yes, in the current banking scam, deposits are necessary to create more money.

    But why would a real money system need these deposits?

    They don’t!

    Money creation is simply an accounting function and that the banksters need deposits in their system is a clear signal we don’t.

    The Gelre cannot go bust, because there is always all the paper money necessary to pay out any deposits.

    You are falling for the idea, that banks lend out money others are saving with them.

    Not only is this untrue, it also irrelevant.

    In the Gelre System (and in basically all barter systems (but not euro/dollar backed currencies!)) we create the money based on nothing but the credit of the community within which the money circulates.

    Like I stated before, saving money is not a wise idea. Saving money comes from the desire to move wealth to the future.
    If you want to do that, buy durable goods, invest or pay up front.

    Money needs to circulate. The idea that money can combine the functions of storing wealth and means of exchange in one unit is one of the basic and many flaws in economic, monetary theory.

  22. PS: check out the new realcurrencies.wordpress.com for more information on the nature of gold!

  23. DrKrbyLuv

    Elaine wrote:

    “Why do we have to have interest rates at all? The answer is obvious: someone, somewhere HAS to ’save money’ or it ceases to have any holding power. Savers capitalize banking. If we base banking on zero holdings, it collapses extremely fast.”
    __________________________

    If you need the 1.25- 1.5% money market rates (checking account returns are lower) as an incentive to save money then you just aren’t thinking.

    Saving money is great, but with the dollar already down 15% this year you are guaranteeing losses at the current returns.

    If you want to save money, do it another way where at least your money isn’t evaporating. PMs for example, or land – not the criminal banking system.

  24. emsnews

    I was speaking about working financial systems. Our system is NOT working at all. It is hideously broken. Ergo: real interest earning accounts have vanished. And since the only people who seem interested in ‘saving’ our dollars are our dire trade rivals, this means we are sitting ducks.

  25. Some good points raised in that post. Will be back to check for more.

  26. All I can say is wow, I think I’ll reprint the Gelre story in our magazine. We support alternative legal currencies.

    Mark
    editor@ccmag.net

  27. Mihail

    Some call it Marxism — I call it Judaism.” (The American Bulletin, Rabbi S. Wise, May 5, 1935).

    “It is legitimate to adopt a critical attitude toward the relatively large number of Jews who particularly in the first decade after the Bolshevik revolution collaborated with the Soviet Government in the persecution of other peoples.” — Statement of researcher Michael Mills, an official of the government of Australia at Canberra. (Source: Forward, March 10, 2000)

    — Robert Wilton, a long time Russia correspondent for the London Times, said in his book The Last Days of the Romanovs:

    “According to the data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State there were in 1918-1919: 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Lets, 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 2 Poles, 2 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Jews.

    “As the decades past by — after the fateful year 1917 — Judaized Khazars kept a firm hand on the helm of the government in the occupied land of Russia. In due time they built a bureaucracy to their heart’s desire.”

    “The Communist soul is the soul of Judaism. Hence it follows that, just as in the Russian revolution the triumph of Communism was the triumph of Judaism, so also in the triumph of fascism will triumph Judaism.” (A Program for the Jews and Humanity, Rabbi Harry Waton, p. 143-144).

    The American Hebrew September 10, 1920:

    “The Bolshevist revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains, of Jewish dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is to create a new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent a way in Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish dissatisfaction, and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same Jewish mental and physical forces, become a reality all over the world.”

    “The Jews welcome this revolution in the Christian world, and the Jews should show an example. It is not an accident that Judaism gave birth to Marxism, and it is not an accident that the Jews readily took up Marxism: all this was in perfect accord with the progress of Judaism and the Jews.” (A Program for the Jews and Humanity, by Rabbi Harry Waton, p. 148).

    “We have exterminated the property owners in Russia. We are going to do the same thing in Europe and America.” (The Jew, December 1925, Zinobit).

  28. grakmlakgrak

    a local resource based economy- which is essentially what your man is describing- add a drop of competition as to see who can administrate the system cheapest- it all comes down to who you want having the trust of your money- massive banks with percentages on debt or a thrifty local gnome with nothing but rubber stamps to pay for- free exchange of currency is also becoming an issue paypal for instance- why a percentage fee wtf is that about- thats why they shut his online banking down, he wasnt making enough on it.

  29. grakmlakgrak

    it also had the potential and im not sure if he wants it to do what he says and change banking forever? paypal with just and admin and security fee would change banking forever.

  30. grakmlakgrak

    in this system even saving isnt a bad thing- some peopl;e are thrifty and just like that! would make the money giveaway thing work!
    it wouldnt kill risk- ventures will still fail but will not lose to excess as theres no interest fattening up their debts-

  31. Dark Dirk

    Actually they are trying to do something like this:

  32. Simply desire to say your article is as astonishing.

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    to keep up to date with forthcoming post. Thank you one million and
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