Kirby is a popular online analyst in gold markets who is, I think, completely unhinged. His latest rants trying to connect a 100% Chinese fake gold bar scandal to the Rothschilds and the Federal Reserve is typical of conspiracy thinking online. That is, he takes totally unrelated news stories and then provides a dark narrative that makes no logical sense at all. Meanwhile, the Chinese communist government shuts down the fraud operation in China. Thus, reassuring gold markets that China won’t allow fake gold to proliferate.
Gld ETF Warning, Tungsten Filled Fake Gold Bars :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website
I’ve already reported on irregular physical gold settlements which occurred in London, England back in the first week of October, 2009. Specifically, these settlements involved the intermediation of at least one Central Bank [The Bank of England] to resolve allocated settlements on behalf of J.P. Morgan and Deutsche Bank – who DID NOT have the gold bullion that they had sold short and were contracted to deliver. At the same time I reported on two other unusual occurrences:
1] – irregularities in the publication of the gold ETF – GLD’s bar list from Sept. 25 – Oct.14 where the length of the bar list went from 1,381 pages to under 200 pages and then back up to 800 or so pages.
2] – reports of 400 oz. “good delivery” bricks of gold found gutted and filled with tungsten within the confines of LBMA approved vaults in Hong Kong….
….Within mere hours of this scam being identified – Chinese officials had many of the perpetrators in custody….
…Roughly 15 years ago – during the Clinton Administration [think Robert Rubin, Sir Alan Greenspan and Lawrence Summers] – between 1.3 and 1.5 million 400 oz tungsten blanks were allegedly manufactured by a very high-end, sophisticated refiner in the USA [more than 16 Thousand metric tonnes]. Subsequently, 640,000 of these tungsten blanks received their gold plating and WERE shipped to Ft. Knox and remain there to this day. I know folks who have copies of the original shipping docs with dates and exact weights of “tungsten” bars shipped to Ft. Knox.
Now, the Market Oracle story writer views every event on earth through this conspiracy theory prism. Yes, fake gold bars are in the news today! But the story is obvious and note what really happened: a Chinese group decided to manufacture fake gold bars. The Chinese government stopped them by arresting them. End of story.
Several key items: the Chinese detected a gold fraud and then arrested CHINESE guys who were behind it. But Mr. Kirby goes all unhinged and by throwing together all sorts of goofy items totally unrelated to this business, strives very hard to try to pin all of this on the Federal Reserve! Which has absolutely nothing to do with the entire thing. Nothing at all.
Note the part I highlighted: Kirby ‘knows’ mysterious and anonymous people who have ‘copies of documents’ which Kirby doesn’t bother to show us, that has the weights of the tungsten bars at Ft. Knox! Only, there are no tungsten bars at Ft. Knox that we know of. Or rather, there is zero proof there are some in our holdings there.
Now, the question comes to mind, why on earth would Clinton and the Fed try to buy gold bars in the first place? It makes zero logical sense! Kirby even screams about how the Fed can make money out of thin air via printing presses! So why bother with fake gold reserves? Eh? Logic matters!
I can’t quote all of Kirby’s rambling article which is a visual as well as intellectual mess, just click on the link here and see for yourselves. He jumps from one story to another neglecting to show that there are no links, intellectual or police-style links connecting these stories.
For example, he yells about the Rothschilds getting out of the gold bullion markets as proof there is a conspiracy! The resignation of a NYMEX official is hinted as proof there is a conspiracy because these two events happened the same year! On and on he rages trying to find coincidences that seemingly match the time frame he selects. Now, here is a saner, more logical story based on the same Chinese information:
Tungsten and its use in making fake gold | 13 November 2009 | www.commodityonline.com
A Chinese company called Chinatungsten is advertising imitation gold merchandise on its website. The following quote is taken directly from their Tungsten Alloy for Gold Substitution page:
“a coin with a tungsten center and gold all around it could not be detected as counterfeit by density measurement alone … We are well accustomed to exploit more innovative applications of tungsten products. Gold-plated tungsten is one of our main products.”
This raises a few (somewhat rhetorical) questions. What kind of customer is this company looking to sell its imitation gold products to and for what purposes are they intended? Furthermore, what exactly are the “more innovative applications of tungsten products” that this company is hinting at?
This commodity writer has a much saner analysis. He correctly recognizes that it is a Chinese corporation that was using tungsten blanks to coat with gold and thus, fool people. The integrity of gold markets depends on someone regulating it so frauds like this one in China, are nipped at the bud. Of course, it is a powerful, highly regulated government that notices this fraud and shuts it down!
Out of my usual curiosity, I decided to visit the criminal operation online. The main page is still up but the Chinese government already shut down all the interior data of this web page:
In the past 2 decades, we have offered designing, manufacturing types tungsten as: ores, concentrates, tungstic acid, ammonium paratungstate & metatungstate (AMT & APT), sodium, yellow tungsten oxide, blue tungsten oxide, tungsten trioxide(WO3);tungsten & carbide Powder, mixed or ready to press powder; tungsten carbide for cutting, sealing, drilling & mining; heavy alloy (WHA) for mobile cubes, watch bobs, sinks for PCB, darts sets’ billets & barrels, golf clubs, yacht balance bricks, fishing sinkers, hunting gun’s bullets’ balls, weights roller for meters, balances for racing car & motor, auto engines’ crankshafts, medical(e.g. X, gamma-ray) anti-radiation, resource shielding holder for uranium & depleted uranium (DU) protection shield, aircraft jets’ parts & breaking plates, counterweight & riveting bucking bars, submarines’ sealing & balancing, antitank missiles, canons’ bullet, smart bomb (e.g. AHEAD) and other military applications. Now, we’ve developed a new applicant of tungsten alloy Paper Weight. .
We are very proud that we have offered more 1000 clients with thousands types expected tungsten products successfully from the year 1997. If you have any demand of tungsten & molybdenum, please let’s know it without any hesitation, we’ll try our best to assistant your complete the design, produce, machining, grounding & delivery ASAP. Also we promise you: We have neither minimum order, nor small customer, and we are not offering only our qualified products but also the designing, solution and the best service, prompt delivery at the most competitive prices for our motto is: Our Business Is Nothing But Your Success
Ah! The new application is supposed to be a ‘paper weight’ but it was made to ape gold bars! Heh. Only, once they shipped it out, it was discovered to be a great fraud so everyone wanted some so they could fool people into thinking this was real gold and off it went! Of course, I suspect the executives of this tungsten operation noticed their fake gold bars fooled even experts and used it themselves, selling it to unsuspecting clients!
Thus, the arrests. And now they get to go on trial and then get a gold plated bullet to the back of their heads. Now, in a sane world, gold bugs in America should be applauding these arrests and impending executions! It means the Chinese communists take gold markets very, very seriously. The Chinese communist leaders are working hard to insure that gold markets are not contaminated with fake gold.
Now, if the Chinese government was passing off fake gold as real, then we could indulge in conspiracy thinking about the Chinese leadership! But alas for that, no, the communists are keeping the market clean, not peddling frauds! As for the Federal Reserve: none of these fake bars came from it. None of these fake bars were made in the US. And if someone were to try to peddle fake bars here, they too, would be arrested. Though, not shot in the back of the head.
One thing I try to avoid here is knee-jerk paranoid postings. That is, I either withhold judgement until there is more incoming data or I avoid reflexive thinking. I look for information but keep a clear mind as to what is meaningful and what is mere coincidence.
The gold bug community has very clear thinkers and some really crazy people like Kirby who make up stuff or can’t read the news clearly. One has to figure out the difference! When we see the same people blaming everything on ‘the usual suspects’ and then screaming that no one is stopping these nefarious people, we are seeing insanity, not clear analysis. The swine flu epidemic clearly flushed out of the woodwork, all the conspiracy thinking messes which is one reason I latched onto it to discuss demented thinking processes.
The Rothschilds moving out of gold ETF markets was due, probably, to them thinking there is rising fraud in these markets. And they were astute! They were right! Now, China and other gold producing nations have to scramble to prove their own markets are not riddled with frauds. And lo and behold, the Chinese are doing this!
Now, in the US, if anyone tries to do what the Chinatungsten people did, they would be shut down, pronto! And the Federal Reserve does NOT regulate nor control gold the commodity markets. They don’t even sell gold. So the slender threads Kirby uses to try to connect his demented dots are FRAUD. He is peddling the verbal equivalent of tungsten-filled gold bars in his story.
P.O. BOX 483
BERLIN, NY 12022
Make checks out to ‘Elaine Supkis’
Click on the Pegasus icon on the right sidebar to donate via Paypal.
42 responses to “Tungsten Filled Gold Bars In Asia”
I don’t know what the reality is here. I do fear there is a great deal of fraud in gold and also fear that the US government, FED and bullion banks may well be involved. The GATA boys may seem a little crazy sometimes, but it doesn’t mean they’re wrong. It will be interesting to see whether Kirby chooses to (or can) substantiate his claims.
Regardless, maybe something good will come from this–audits of Ft Knox and bullion storage in general…
You can find at least one inside web page from the Chinese tungsten fake gold here:
Steve, Kirby claims to have insider information. And then doesn’t reveal it. This is like a stripper who pulls off a dress to reveal she is wearing a body suit made of steel.
Elaine, a cursory review of the gold market indicates that there are about 100 ozs of paper gold for each real ounce. There are lots of shorts and one major minimg company just took a 5 billion dollar write off closing their book.
You seem like an apologist and quote “facts” without any substantiation of your assertions.
After seeing the massive fraud in the commercial and banking segments, both supposedly intensively regulated, how is it a stretch to think that the ultimate and only real money wouldn’t be subject to the same frauds. Except in this case, they can’t print more,
go read the research the GATA people have done ovet the last 10 years and their efforts to get information on gold hedging and trades from the federal reserve. subterfuge to the maximum. Of course, no one is going to present the truth to gata or you or anyone else so they dig and work with what they have to work with.
have to put you in the same category as a shill for vaccines AND gold.
Maybe the US Gov should audit their reserves. Something they have not done for probably 30 years. Their refusal seems to be some admission of guilt. If every thing is in order then it is business as usual and the question goes away.
Refuting the tungsten rumor:
You are the opposite of Elaine. You look for anything that might push forward your agenda to disprove anything she says.
Elaine DID NOT write about the massive short position in the paper gold markets, nor did she claim it was false. You IMPLIED that she did.
Elaine DID NOT say all the goldbugs were insane. She claimed some of them were, and she pinpointed one and showed in clear analysis how he was insane. She also provided links to substantiate her claims and also provided clear analytical thinking based on what was known regarding this one incident.
YOU took that and made a quantum leap to conclude that Elaine was trying to discredit ALL goldbugs, ALL research done by GATA regarding ALL matters, and was thereby supporting gold hedging companies and general fraud in the gold markets here in the US and everywhere and blah, blah, blah.
I am sick of reading your comments. You are deliberately spreading disinformation. I consider you to be a government agent, because that is what government agents do.
>Now, the question comes to mind, why on earth would Clinton and the Fed try to buy gold bars in the first place? It makes zero logical sense! Kirby even screams about how the Fed can make money out of thin air via printing presses! So why bother with fake gold reserves? Eh? Logic matters!
To manipulate the price of gold. If the story is true real gold bars could have been replaced by gold bars with tungsten cores, so that the real gold bars could have been sold on the market. This increased the supply of gold, and thus suppressed gold prices.
Here are some other concerns regarding the integrity of the gold markets:
1. The U.S. is apparently missing gold – (U.S. Gold, Going or Completely Gone?)
The United States Geological Survey [USGS] publishes monthly Mineral Industry Surveys designed to provide a macro-import/export-overview of the U.S. precious metals [gold] industry. Over the course of 2007 / 2008 more than 5,000 metric tonnes of “Gold Compounds” have been exported from the United States of America representing more than 62 % of reported sovereign U.S. gold reserves.” The sovereign U.S. gold reserve has not been independently audited since the 1950’s during the Eisenhower Administration. GATA’s freedom of information requests are all about ensuring that the 8,100 metric tonnes of U.S. sovereign gold is still owned by the U.S. In April, 2008 the Federal Reserve responded to GATA’s request, releasing hundreds of pages of worthless information with significant portions redacted.”
If this is true, over 5,000 metric tonnes of gold are missing which would leave us with at most, 3,100 tonnes of gold. At $1,100 per troy ounce, the theft would represent around $180 billion dollars.
2. Physical Bullion Inventory Shortage; there are signs of increasing physical bullion liquidity problems at major trading exchanges such as the Comex and the LME, as evidenced by ‘significant lumpy transactions’, increasing price volatility, the reemergence of non-LBMA-purity coin melt bars and generous 25% premium cash settlement offers to futures contract holders rather than physical deliveries (Kirby, Willie). Also there have been requests for repatriation of offshore sovereign reserves. Germany and Switzerland are reportedly demanding the return of their custodial gold from the U.S. plus Hong Kong and Dubai are also planning to withdraw their bullion holdings from UK depositories.
3. Growing Suspicion of ETFs; closer inspection of the GLD and SLV ETF Prospectus’ show incongruencies pointing towards the conclusion that the paper shares may not be fully backed by physical gold or silver (Kim, Mayer). Some even point to these funds being derivative paper trading tools complicit in the ongoing physical bullion price suppression. It is interesting to note that some custodians of the ETFs are also some of the main holders of substantial market short positions. Greenlight Capital has notably sold $500 million of the GLD ETF and bought physical bullion although they downplay the risk angle and attribute the action to fee cost savings. http://seekingalpha.com/article/149209-are-gld-and-slv-legitimate-investment-vehicles and http://www.runtogold.com/2008/12/a-problem-with-gld-and-slv-etfs/
4. Double Allocation of Physical Gold; Adrian Douglas in ‘How much imaginary gold has been sold?’ (Part1, Part2) argues that the volume of gold traded on the London bullion exchange could not be supported by the reported sales of 15,000 tons (482 million ounces). By Douglas’ calculations, the London market needed a minimum of 64,000 tons (2.05 billion ounces) of gold to be sold to support its reported trading volume. He believes that any disclosure that this much extra gold has been sneaked onto the market, leaving less inventory available to cover open contracts in London, could cause a panic in the gold market. Is the London bullion market operating on a fractional-reserve basis with 64,000 tonnes of gold sold via unallocated accounts against a maximum reserve of only 15,000 tonnes? If he is correct then some vaults hold bullion bars with multiple allocations. Douglas estimates that paper gold derivatives dwarf physical bullion by at least 20-1. http://www.gata.org/node/7908 and http://www.gata.org/node/7911
5. Double Allocation of Physical Silver; it seems that there may be also problems in the silver ETFs. ZeroHedge analyzed SLVs bar list and found that during their research into the inventory lists of the iShares SLV and London-based ETFS physical silver funds, there were discovered multiple anomalies which cannot be easily dismissed. These included the presence of internal duplicates, rough internal duplicates, weight duplicates, statistical clustering, and cross-reference duplicates (ZeroHedge). Jason Hommel estimates silver paper derivatives dwarf physical bullion by around 100-1.
Click to access SilverETFs_1_PDF.pdf
6. ETF Proxy Settlement; New York and Tokyo commodity exchanges permit their gold futures contracts to be settled not in real bullion but in shares of gold ETFs. This essentially allows the gold shorts (and the exchanges themselves, which guarantee futures contracts) to transfer their obligations to third parties that may not have the metal they claim to have. It is now apparently legal for precious metals futures contracts to be settled by delivery of paper ETF shares rather than physical bullion (The Alchemists).
Guy, why would CLINTON ‘manipulate gold’? He had zero reason to do this. Nixon had lots of reasons to do this. LBJ, ditto. Kennedy and Eisenhower, absolutely. But after Nixon: no reason whatsoever.
It seems to me there was an incentive for even post Nixon administrations and Feds to manipulate gold to maintain “confidence” in the fiat currency. One way to maintain the confidence of fools or else tempt the wise is to keep overall non-gold returns higher than gold returns. Then, even intelligent doubters are lured into dollars to dabble for hedge fund returns.
Granted that hasn’t held recently.
I don’t know for sure whether gold manipulation was accomplished or its mechanism.
However, the ETF: “GLD” disclaimer that Kirby cites is more troubling. Seems like it could be one moving part of a big price-depression scam.
Until more information surfaces, I don’t think Rob Kirby’s article should be taken too seriously.
One question we have to ask is why hasn’t Fort Knox been audited and spot assayed? If this is gold owned by the treasury – then it should be fully compliant with good accounting and reporting procedures.
If manipulating the price of gold was the goal, why would Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan bid up the price of gold? Logic! This is too simple to understand.
Gold dealers who fund many gold bug sites want only up up up gold prices.
Ahh sweet old logic, one man takes 1 minute to dig a hole, 60 men need 1 second. Logic!
Yes, burying oneself in a useless conspiracy theory is equivalent to digging a deep hole very painstakingly.
“Gold dealers who fund many gold bug sites want only up up up gold prices.”
A real dealer doesn’t care where the price is, as their profit is made from the buy-sell spread and volume, not from asset appreciation.
Interesting story you got here. It would be great to read a bit more about that matter.
So much guesswork, analysis and observation is called “conspiracy theory”. I’m sitting at my bench trying to think of two events in the history of man on earth that are not conspiracies. Darn, I can’t even think of one.
I’ll try again tomorrow, after a night’s sleep.
Guesswork and ‘analysis’ isn’t PROOF. And what is defined as a ‘conspiracy’? If you mean, ‘various people or creatures taking action’ well, duh. Usually people don’t operate totally alone.
But if someone plugs in all events into a stupid continuous conspiracy rant, this is dumb. For example, blaming Rockefeller for an epidemic that began in Mexico is a typical example of poor analysis, lots of crazy guesses and blind observations.
I blame Nelson Rockefeller for the declining standards in office affairs and deaths caused by passionate release of pleasant bodily fluids in the servicer.
ELAINE: HAHAHAH…. and they were talking about museum funding, too. 🙂
Follow the money…Precious metals are the only asset that has gone up in real terms over the past ten years.Anyone paying attention to the markets knows this,especially those who track them every day (central bankers, goldman etc.) The public on the other hand is oblivious to this fact (manipulated media etc.) wake up america and get on board before its too late.
I do not trust anyone who is willing to come out and debunk a story right away. I think there is more to this Gold story and anyone who dismisses it right off hand looks and smells like a schill to me.
I didn’t debunk the conspiracy story, I gave information. Jumping to conclusions is what people do when they are suicidal and facing a cliff.
Well said Drkbyluv. Why is it so hard to understand?
I am not ready to dismiss this as some conspiracy nut case job as of yet. I think it will be a tough item to keep under raps for a long period of time if true.
I for one will be watching this very carefully as the weeks and months unfold.
So far, nothing. Anyone can speculate about anything and see whatever they want but this doesn’t mean it is real at all.
It is not clear if ‘gold compounds’ means the volume (weight) of the exported paint. If I was an exporter of such a material, it is the gross weight of a finished product that gets reported that I would know about – not the chemical composition of the paint.
That being said, there has been no audit of UST gold and no intention of doing one.
Also, in Kirby’s commentary is a reference to a 1983 heist in the UK where tungsten bars were recovered by the cops. The story implied that the robbers in a few weeks had the gold melted and restamped with a hallmark and correct bar numbers stamped to make them look authentic.
After reading this, it seems more likely that the bars they stole were fake to begin with.
If so, this implies that tungsten bars have been around a long time and that re-assaying 400 oz bars may be the only way to settle this – if you are a buyer of these bars.
For the gold market, it is bullish. There may be way less to cover the heavily shorted paper market than is thought.
Jim Sinclair reports a new purity test for gold in bars, or even coins, whatever.
No more acid or drilling assays.
Lizards must buy this patent ASAP.
“Ah! The new application is supposed to be a ‘paper weight’ but it was made to ape gold bars! Heh”,hey man! What`s your theory about guesswork? Do you know what is paperweight? I am really puzzled about this “but”,you apparently go too far! This Chinatungsten Online is a legal company, they are doing a broad business and have a good reputation worldwide. We once bought tungsten darts from this company. They are professional manufacturer of tungsten products and they are doing their business legally . The gold-plated tungsten bars are just artifacts for decorations and souvenir!But I really appreciate your “I either withhold judgement until there is more incoming data or I avoid reflexive thinking. I look for information but keep a clear mind as to what is meaningful and what is mere coincidence”!
Pingback: Should We Abolish The Federal Reserve Q&a | Wtmcmullen
Pingback: Are You Confused By The Stock Market? Read These Tips | Tonya Wells Pad
Pingback: Counterfeit Gold?
Pingback: Counterfeit Gold? « Silver For The People – The Blog
Pingback: FinancialMarketPlace.com « Counterfeit Gold?
Pingback: What would happen if the USA stopped "defending the world" - Page 5 - Pelican Parts Technical BBS
Excellent article. I’m going through some of these issues
The metaphysical poets defined and compared their subjects by means of nature, philosophy,
enjoy, and musings about the hereafter – a wonderful departure from the
primarily religious poetry that had instantly followed the wane of the Elizabethan era.
We stumbled over here from a different web address and thought I might check things out.
I likle what I see so now i am following you.
Look forward to going over your web page yet again.
I uxed to be able to find good advice from your
I know this website offers quality dependent posts and additional stuff, is there any other web page which gives these data in quality?
Pingback: Counterfeit Gold? | Miles Franklin
Normally I do not read post on blogs, but I would like to
say that this write-up very compelled me to try and do so!
Your writing taste has been surprised me. Thanks, very great article.