Catholic Church Pedophiles Should Apologize To All Honest Gays

The Catholic Church, like all religious organizations based on denial of the self, is instead, in self-denial.  For some very strange reason going very far back in time to the first sexual taboos of early human tribes, the gods always have a very big interest in our sex lives. This is due to our gods dwelling inside of that deepest part of our brains where our eating, drinking and panic attacks all jostle each other.  In the Stygian darkness of this innermost chamber, the religious impulses collide violently with basic human passions.

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ΩΩThis is, in other words, deep inside the Cave of Wealth and Death.  All religions propose to control the deepest urges we have to have infinite food, infinite sex and infinite wealth.  The idea is, these things, if taken to infinity, are very dangerous—- which is true.  Unbridled appetites are extremely bad not only for the person who falls into it but everyone around this out of control person seeking infinity.  We see this clearly in all dictators.

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ΩΩOne of the oldest and long running dictatorships is the Vatican’s series of popes.  For some centuries, there were competing popes appealing to the followers to attack each other, this led directly towards the collapse of unity in the Church which previously split between Orthodox eastern systems with no pope to the Reformation which shattered the Church for good.

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ΩΩGenerally speaking, when a religious body claims to control the passions, they usually don’t do this at all.  The tortures which the Church imposed on its victims in various times were disgustingly sexual and violent forms of rape, ending often in murder such as burning at the stake.  The ‘devil’ that bedevils all religious fanatics happens to be a MIRROR.  That is, as they denounce the devil, they ARE the devil. And one of the most devilish things these demonic creatures do is, never be able to see themselves in their own mirrors.  It is always someone else’s fault.

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Pope will ‘not be intimidated by petty gossip’ over sex abuse scandals – Telegraph

In a clear indication that the Vatican continues to insist the continual abuse revelations are part of a conspiracy the Pope said: “From God comes the courage not to be intimidated by petty gossip.”

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Although he did not directly mention the crisis that has seen claims of abuse from Ireland, Germany, Austria, Holland and Brazil the 82 year old Pontiff’s message was evidently clear. As he spoke, thousands of pilgrims who had gathered in a sunlit St Peter’s Square clapped and shouted “Viva il Papa” (Long Live The Pope). The scandals seemingly not to have had an impact on their faith.

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ΩΩThe Pope seems to be changing gears from ‘the devil made me do it,’ to ‘the devil is conspiring against me.’  Unable to recognize that the sexual pull of the Church’s monastic communities was a magnet for homosexuality, the Church persecuted, tortured, RAPED and murdered homosexuals for over 1,000 years.  While being run by…homosexuals. When Popes and their minions were not homosexuals, they had wild sex with nuns, school girls and ‘witches’…which they tortured, raped and then murdered in massive numbers.

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ΩΩThis is the dark ‘Id’ of the Church: as they enforce their bizarre god’s sexual restrictions, they enacted the worst sexual impulses imaginable!  The more they want after ‘sexual deviants’ the more they indulged in the grossest forms of sexual deviancy!  The more they tried to suppress thoughts about sex, the more obsessed they were with sex.

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ΩΩThis is in the heart of all religions: sex.  Not the soul but the exact opposite: the very basic natural urge to have sex with all possible partners and spread the genes as far and wide as possible.  And this is something all tribal groups, every last one of them, all the way down to today, strive to control and restrain.  The Church was so freaked out about sex of all sorts, it even refused to sanctify marriage in the early years because of anxiety about the ‘End of Times’ and a desire to have NO procreation in preparation for the end of all humanity.

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ΩΩThis bizarre and anti-natural belief system is probably an outgrowth of population stresses in early cities.  Rome, during this time (66 AD-600 AD) grew too large for even its own innovations in water and waste handling and this was true of all the major cities during that era.  So it is no surprise to see people give up on having families, something we see today in our big cities, many of which are seeing a massive drop in birth rates while at the same time are being flooded by people fleeing the countryside.

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For Years, Deaf Boys Tried to Tell of Priest’s Abuse – NYTimes.com

They were deaf, but they were not silent. For decades, a group of men who were sexually abused as children by the Rev. Lawrence C. Murphy at a school for the deaf in Wisconsin reported to every type of official they could think of that he was a danger, according to the victims and church documents.

. They told other priests. They told three archbishops of Milwaukee. They told two police departments and the district attorney. They used sign language, written affidavits and graphic gestures to show what exactly Father Murphy had done to them. But their reports fell on the deaf ears of hearing people.

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This week, they learned that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, received letters about Father Murphy in 1996 from Archbishop Rembert G. Weakland of Milwaukee, who said that the deaf community needed “a healing response from the Church.” The Vatican sat on the case, then equivocated, and when Father Murphy died in 1998, he died a priest.


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ΩΩThis is truly disgusting. The Church has been, even this last month with the Healthcare Bill, deeply involved in meddling with non-church lives in the matters of private sex.  The Church’s focus has been relentlessly on preventing women from accessing important healthcare services such as the right to abortions.  A queer and very disturbing aspect of many Christians seems to be this love of fetuses which turns in to indifference, hatred or even outright rape of small children.  I was raped when I was a small girl and I know how this odious thing comes broiling out of the ground to consume some innocent child.

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ΩΩWhen I was a child, I was not saved by the Church.  No one was very interested in what happened to me and the person who did the rape was politically prominent and thus, protected, while I, the victim, was vilified.  Basically, people treated a badly injured (both physical and mental) child as a pariah.  While the criminal was hailed.  The Church’s desire to protect pedophiles while at the same time, attacking all openly gay men and women, is extremely astonishing.

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ΩΩThe mirror of the soul is broken!  For one of the dirtiest charges these pedophile priests attacked honest gays with was the ‘child rapist’ storyline.  That is, ALL gays were supposedly pedophiles.  Of course, it seems many gay priests and ministers WERE pedophiles!  So I am not surprised that they assumed everyone else was one, also!  The long fight for basic human and civil rights for gays has been made very ugly by religious bigot pedophiles!

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Vienna Boys’ Choir caught up in sex abuse scandals -Times Online

So far about 300 claims of sexual abuse have been made by former pupils of German church schools and of non-denominational boarding schools.

. Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger, the Justice Minister, offended church leaders by accusing the Vatican of covering up scandals and urged German bishops to co-operate with state prosecutors — something that the Church feels could erode its independence. The Vienna Boys’ Choir has no formal relationship with the Church and is, therefore, less politically sensitive….

. ….Claims of sexual abuse have also been made against the Regensburger Domspatzen boys’ choir, which was run until 1994 by Georg Ratzinger, the Pope’s brother. Mgr Ratzinger has denied all knowledge of paedophile sex. A priest who worked at the choir between 1970 and 1972 was suspended yesterday amid allegations of sexual abuse dating back to that period.

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ΩΩTime for all these guys running this pedophile church to have a conference whereby they examine why they are who they are!  HAHAHA.  Invite leaders of the gay civil rights community who can then explain to these criminals how to behave in a sane, civil world.  Their goofy religion is a TOTAL FAILURE.  The model it is based on…12 guys hanging out with Jesus whose mother got pregnant out of wedlock, has to be reexamined and all those various saints should be examined, too.

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ΩΩThe swooning nuns who had sexual passions with various celestial beings should be analyzed in a Freudian way, the whole concept of the Jewish god should also be examined in the cold light of reason, recognizing anti-sex death gods is life and death, literally!  Once this is faced, examining where all religions come from is highly important and seeing that this is where paranoia, murder and rape also dwell is of acute importance.

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Dutch church abuse scandal – more details | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

Rape There have been 48 reports of physical abuse and 218 reports of sexual abuse, including 17 accusations of serious sexual violence, such as rape. A number of people reported both physical and sexual abuse.

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According to a breakdown of the accusations, there are 37 reports of abuse at institutions run by the Brothers of Charity, 31 by the Don Bosco Salesians, 27 by the Friars of Tilburg, 20 by the Brothers of Maastricht, 17 by the Jesuits and 13 by the Franciscans. Most of the report of physical abuse came from former pupils at the Eikenburg boarding school in Eindhoven, the Leo Association in Borculo and institutions, including the Huize Ruwenberg seminary, run by the Friars of Tilburg.

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Most of the abuse took place in the 1950s – 80 reports- and 1960s – 109 reports. However, the lack of reports concerning instances of abuse in earlier decades is probably due to the fact that most of the victims are now dead. The steady decline in the number of abuse reports after the 1960s coincides with the closure of many boarding schools and seminaries.

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ΩΩIt is all about access and availability.  Most sex abuse isn’t what I went through.  The thing done to me left physical damage which had to be corrected by doctors.  Girls are openly raped all over the planet and a terrible number of them die due to damage to sexual organs and inside the body.  Thanks to modern medicine, I survived, barely.  Nearly died by age 13.  But there are less invasive ways of having sex with children and most rapists use these, knowing that full penetration damages children and might expose the rapists to the light of day.

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ΩΩI assure everyone, no one listens to children when they try to explain to adults, something is very wrong.  Especially when the child is viewed as a devil while the adult abuser is viewed as an angel!  Many children caught in this sort of nightmare, blame themselves.  They commit suicide.  I nearly did this after a doctor accused me of having sex when I was raped, it was not mutual at all, not even slightly!

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ΩΩThe reason I didn’t kill myself was very stark: I ditched all religions!  I decided they were all wrong in basic and dangerous ways and were a danger to me, not a protector.  I enjoy thinking using religious images because they are part of our culture and useful tools, but believing the doctrines is deadly.  Understanding the true nature of religion is the key.  Using this information to guide oneself through life is the hard road to enlightenment.

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Therapy led to soaring abuse rate in Irish Church -Times Online

Canon law, or Church law, has been blamed for forcing bishops to cover up the allegations, to hide them, and certainly it is true that anyone taking part in a canonical investigation is required to swear an oath of secrecy, or confidentiality.

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But the Murphy report itself is very interesting about canon law. It points out that a big problem with this law isn’t that it was used, but that it wasn’t used.

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It says: “The Church authorities failed to implement most of their own canon law rules on dealing with child sex abuse…canon law appears to have fallen into disuse and disrespect during the mid 20th century. In particular, there was little or no experience of operating the penal (that is, the criminal) provision of that law... for many years offenders were neither prosecuted nor made accountable within the Church.”

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Why did it fall into disuse and disrespect? It was because priests and bishops began to regard it as being overly legalistic and too focused on punishment. They decided it lacked compassion.

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ΩΩHAHAHA….these same compassionate religious bigots showed ZERO compassion towards honest, non-pedophile gays!  Not to mention, victims of rape such as myself.  We were all ‘dirty’ and should be repressed and suppressed and manipulated by all these religious kooks who told us, they tamed their own sex and we were the bad guys, the devils.  These criminals worked very, very relentlessly to keep honest gay love illegal.  This is why I don’t want an apology from these sex-crazed religious devils, I want them to tell their followers to pass gay rights laws and to apologize to ALL gay people!  Now.

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ΩΩNot, ‘clean the Church’ yet again.  This church will never be clean. It is, at its central core, sex-crazed and insane.  Elevating a guy whose mother was a whore and who hung out with his male buddies, into godhood, is hilarious and…insane.  Time to drop the entire matter and be honest about what the Cave of Wealth and Death is and how to avoid being ripped apart by the various elemental forces that dwell within.

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91 Comments

Filed under Politics, religion

91 responses to “Catholic Church Pedophiles Should Apologize To All Honest Gays

  1. charlottemom

    I agree with many, many points of this post, but not your conclusion:
    “Their goofy religion is a TOTAL FAILURE”

    Writing that the acts of the pope and his aides are a total failure and the betrayal of christian ideals, yes, but decry christianity?!? Is this what you meant?

    Christianity distilled to its essence is open, truthful, compassionate, forgiving. How can you say those ideals represent failure?

    The Church and its layers and layers of vatican secrecy and coverup well deserves the scrutiny. Go at it. but why stop there — there are other religions and institutions (schools, charitable organizations, politics) where terrible child abuse/pedophilia occurs in spite of codified rules of moral conduct.

    theawarenesscenter.org

  2. emsnews

    I have yet to meet or know a forgiving Christian. My parents and siblings were all born again Christians and they never ever forgive anything nor do they think they are sinners. I can’t remember meeting anyone who called themselves ‘a Christian’ who thought they were bad and everyone else might be good. Quite the opposite.

    And Jesus always forgives THEM…even as they hold grudges…and even Jesus assumably holds grudges since he puts anyone who doesn’t love him into eternal torment. Yish.

  3. emsnews

    This lies in the heart of Christianity: the forgiveness business is a one way street. Jesus and his followers are not forgiving enough to let say, a poor Muslim child, into heaven. Nope, the poor child is consigned to eternal hell just because he had the wrong parents!

    Even more: unbaptized babies are not forgiven, either, they go to limbo or nothingness if they die before they are ‘saved’ via magic spells! This is super-cruddy and any Jesus that does this to babies who die very quickly or are born to the wrong parents: this is criminal. Not forgiving at all.

    All the Christians have to do is amend their religion: EVERYONE IS FORGIVEN OF EVERYTHING. Whoo! Isn’t that darling?

  4. OT, check this out;

    http://www.scl.cc/

    “Strategic communication is the process employed by governments and other institutions to influence the attitudes and behaviour of a target audience through an understanding of its psychological and social structure, without using force. It can be used to achieve humanitarian, military, security or corporate goals.”

  5. TweedleDeeDumb

    New birth is simply the event wherein one becomes a child of the King of Kings. Thus, only the beginning.

    There is a formative process in the life of the Christian..

    “My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you”, (Ga 4:19)

    If a Christian holds grudges, chastening can be expected..

    “Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.” (Jas 5:9)

    If a Christian is determined to hold grudges, it does not follow that the infallible Bible has been changed to fit.
    🙂

  6. TweedleDeeDumb

    God has providentially preserved HIS Word perfect in the Bible via HIS promises. It is thus sacred, infallible, and final authority.

    The Vatican has never been the final authority.

    “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Mt 24:35)
    🙂

  7. I should have added to the above post;

    This is a perfect illustration of what Chomksy said ‘ that the media are used as a substitute for terror’ , paraphrase.

  8. TweedleDeeDumb

    “I have yet to meet or know a forgiving Christian.”

    C’mon Elaine.
    You’ve got to get out more.
    🙂

    “Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.” (Col 3:13)

  9. The tortures which the Church imposed on its victims in various times were disgustingly sexual and violent forms of rape….

    ….the Church persecuted, tortured, RAPED and murdered homosexuals for over 1,000 years.

    Not only were homosexuals subjected to disgustingly sexual forms of torture and rape, but also disgustingly sexual forms of execution like impalement and sawing in half lengthwise (very worst way to die, even worse than Roman crucifixion — itself a state-sanctioned torture, RAPE and murder all at once).

    http://listverse.com/2007/09/12/top-10-gruesome-methods-of-execution/

  10. Paul S

    No question, there have been alot of phony Christians throughout all of history. No one denies that. Now is this a failing of church principles or of human failings? I’m certainly not defending the many scandals in the Catholic church (btw: I am not Catholic), but the Catholic church HAS done many things in line with Christian principles: Mother Teresa spending an entire adult lifetime in one of the most poverty stricken parts of the world in India. There have been many Catholics who have answered the calling to serve their fellow man and did so selflessly. The Catholic church has a very long history. It should be no wonder that its history includes scandals and betrayals of real christian principles. I’m NOT defending their scandalous behavior, just that there is another side to this story.

  11. charlottemom

    “I’ve never met a forgiving Christian”

    Boy were you ever hanging out with wrong people and I don’t care what they call themselves. But yes, you’re right… the most intolerant and evil hypocrites cloak themselves as self-righteous zealots of fill-in-the-blank-ideology. This is true of all fanatics to an ideology or dogma.

    Regarding the in-limbo unbaptized babies, contraception, sinfulness of gays, and other hard-core catholic teachings, these are only the beliefs of the most fundamentalist of catholics (usually the same ones that want to kill “islamofascists” as they are called not by catholics but by neocons from the political realm).

    I’m trying to understand your POV – do you hate the church, christianity or all religions? Do you hate christians or all who adhere to religious beliefs?

    You are quite right that the church needs to change many moldy dogmas (especially since they do not reflect most catholics’ beliefs)– openness to gays, allow woman in clergy,etc. And clean house and open the books on pedophilia. Let the law and courts sort this out. What will happen…Pope arrested? Or will Pope cop a plea and aid governments’ prosecutions of Church?Vatican?

    Corrupt, broke and lawless governments and a feckless media pursuing the sinful past of hypocritics within the Church hierarchy. I just feel sorry for the victims.

  12. wuen

    I don’t mind when I died not to go into heaven or to become nothing. I prefer to become nothing then be in paradise. That does not mean I feel no remorse when I do bad thing. I will continue to do what I think is good toward others people and me.

  13. B.A.

    This is my experience also. I had too very religious flatmates at different points, two girls, one a groupy style fan of Pope John Paul II, the other a fundie. I had religious debates with them that they entered arrogantly, thinking it would be an easy win. By the end they were frustrated, and both said independently “You will burn in Hell!” not so much as a warning, I suspect, as a wish. Interestingly, they were both rather miserly and obsessed with money and both had sex “out of wedlock” on a regular basis. Contradictions did not bother either. I figured I lived a more exemplary life then either of them, without any coercion or proselyistic drive. Also a young student in my Philosophy class too a strong dislike of me for my views on religion and particularly on the Western god. Also quite aggressive.

  14. notgonnatellya

    Good grief. I can’t believe you just equated being homosexual with being a pedophile.

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    ELAINE: The POPE and his MINIONS do this.

  15. Christians are sooooo forgiving… until they find out you’re gay, uppity or an disbeliever. You Huge Christians who proclaim your ability and duty to forgive should ask Derrick Martin of Cochran, GA how well that’s going over… http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/03/29/Georgia_Teen_Talks_About_Prom_Fight/

    Q: What’s it like being openly gay in Cochran?

    A: It’s hard. Everyday you walk around and people yell at me: “Queer! Faggot!” It was like that even before I asked to go to prom.

    Q: Have you been threatened since your story broke?

    A: I’ve actually been threatened to be shot at. Someone told me I should watch where I’m going when I ride around town, because they would be riding around with a gun. I’m looking into private security between now and prom, and I have an off-duty deputy that said he would go to prom with me. For now, in terms of security, I do things like drive home a different way every day.

    Q: Do you consider yourself religious?

    A: I don’t consider myself any denomination. All I consider is my personal connection with God and Jesus Christ. That’s really the only thing that connects me with religion. I do believe in God.

    Q: Are religious beliefs the reason behind your parents’ opposition to your prom fight?

    A: Yeah, that’s it.

    Q: Have you spoken with your parents since they kicked you out of their house?

    A: My dad calls me. We’ll just talk about just what’s going on and the different things I’m going through. He doesn’t support my lifestyle but he’s still my dad and he cares about me. He’s a math teacher at my school. I see him some days at school. He has a free class at the same time I have one in the afternoon and sometimes I stop by his classroom. I haven’t talked to my mother.

    Q: Where you out to your family before this happened?

    A: Yes, since late sophomore year. I’m an only child. They kicked me out because of all the attention.

    If his parents were truly forgiving, why would they kick him out of the house? They should be asking Derrick for forgiveness… and let him return home!

  16. @notgonnatellya: A lot of Christians, especially from the hard-line Catholic and born-again end-timer varieties, do that. And accuse us gay men of being more pedophilic than the public at large, when the opposite is true.

  17. And explain the forgiveness capacity of these Huge Christians at a Southern Baptist private school and church in North Carolina. Backstory: a high school senior at a SB school was drawn out of the closet over the course of several months by a suspicious classmate who posed as a public high school student who was openly gay, then outed him to the entire student body and the school administration!. The principal called him in to his office to ask if the allegations against him were true, and he admitted that they were. He was immediately kicked out of school. He was scheduled to graduate with honors in just 4 months. Thank the gods both kids were over 18 when the suspicious kid outed the gay kid, otherwise the latter would be facing child porn charges!

    And AFAIK, his christian former classmates are still harassing him.

    http://florida4obama.dailykos.com/

    Look for the articles:

    “My Nephew was outted, and then kicked out of school”

    “My nephew arrived safely after being outed & kicked out of school ”

    “UPDATED: Thank you from me and my nephew”

    “Returning the car & my emotional breakdown(s)”

    “Things are going well”

    “UPDATED X4: Do not allow YOUR children to hate!”

    “I’m inspired”

    “UPDATED: Waiting for the phone to ring”

    If the kid didn’t have a liberal democrat for an aunt, he’d be locked up in an ex-gay cult compound for an undisclosed period of time by now. 😦

  18. Jim Dandy

    I think that religion and medicine should be combined. that way all the faithful could receive an immunization every week along with the wine and disc.

    both require irrational acts of faith and suspension of logic

  19. And here’s a sad tale of a gay kid who WAS compelled… blackmailed, really… into moving into an “ex-gay” cult compound… for FOURTEEN MONTHS… because his Huge Christian parents couldn’t tolerate his natural sexuality. Like I said, this goes right back to the self-loathing closeted Apostle Paul….

  20. Dang! I said it goes back to Apostle Paul at another blog!

    http://prop8trialtracker.com

  21. rockpaperscizzors

    What is the definition of collective psychosis? Religion. The amygdalae is an ancient part of the brain that houses long-term memory directly linked to fear(s) and belief structures such as the guy in the clouds, heaven and hell, your basic extremisms. They’ve been fear conditioned, think Pavlov’s dogs. The amygdalae either over-rides the prefrontal cortex that houses reasoning, problem solving…. or perhaps their frontal lobe isn’t as evolved and the amygdala supercedes.

    A clearer understanding of how humans de-evolved into monothestic male deity worship, I would suggest Rianne Eisler’s book “The Chalice and the Blade” and “Sacred Pleasures”

    It is sad that thousands of years later we still live within ancient tribal beliefs and a societal dominator ranking model. One half of humanity forced into a subservient role. We must end the worship of the hero death and destruction model and evolve into a partnership linked in a creative, peaceful, and progressive society…….Perhaps one day

  22. And Elaine is right about the Jesus of the gospels. If the gospels are accurate, he was definitely gay and if not, bisexual.

    The gospel of John talks all about the “disciple whom Jesus loved.” Tradition has it that he was John, but I suspect he was Lazarus of Bethany. This young man’s (teenage boy’s?) resurrection is explained in detail in John 11:1-44 and also in the sections redacted from between Mark 10:34 & 35, and from Mark 10:46.

    Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair. So the sisters sent word to Jesus, “Lord, the one you love is sick.”(Jn 11:1-3)

    Instead of heading into Bethany straightaway, Jesus waits two days and lets his young lover pass on! It takes another three or four days to get there. Once he’s at the tomb he weeps and even his fellow non-believing Jews remarked how much he loved Lazarus. (Jn 11:33-36) And w know how this story ends…

    Now Mark had a different spin on it, until certain passages were redacted from his gospel. Clement of Alexandria confirmed this to a young monk or bishop named Theodore, yet told him that it must be kept secret. http://skeptically.org

    Here is the passage about Lazarus’ resurection which used to exist between Mark 10:34 & 35.

    And they come into Bethany. And a certain woman whose brother had died was there. And she prostrated herself before Jesus and says to him, ‘Son of David, have mercy on me.’ But the disciples rebuked her. And Jesus, being angered, went off with her unto the garden where the tomb was, and straightway a great cry was heard from the tomb. And going near, Jesus rolled away the stone from the door of the tomb. And straightway, going in where the youth was, he stretched forth his hand and raised him, seizing his hand. But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tomb they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus told him what to do and in the evening the youth came to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the Jordan.

    Now Clement insists that it was not “naked man with naked man.” But if nothing ‘improper’ happened, would the following have been edited out from Mark 10:46? Or would Jesus have met Lazarus’ sister, mother and Salome instead? The verse originally read:

    And they came to Jericho: And the sister of the youth whom Jesus loved, and his mother and Salome were there, and Jesus did not receive them. And as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging.

    And the above redacted passages from Mark’s gospel explains a certain incident in the Garden of Gethsemane which would otherwise not make any sense at all unless one also read John’s gospel.

    And they all forsook him, and fled.

    And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked. (Mk 14:50-52)

    And John Boswell mentioned in the third chapter of his book Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe that in non-Christian ancient Greek literature that the two Greek words for love used here, agapao and phileo and their classic Greek equivalents, had connoted sexual expression of love in certain circumstances.

    Now you christians who think that homosexuality is a sin or an abomination (essentially an unpardonable sin!) even though it’s obviously first and foremost a natural state of being, and are okay with your churches’ treatment of us over the centuries, have a LOT of ‘splainin’ to do!

  23. emsnews

    Democratic Greece was very ‘gay’ (women, on the other hand, had few freedoms of any sort!) and Jerusalem was ruled by Greeks after Alexander the Great conquered the place. The tensions about gay love stem from this period and Jesus was very much walking about in a climate run by Roman/Greeks, not Zionists or Christians when he roamed the Holy Land.

  24. adammateyko

    Human beings do have the greatest of delusions about themselves and their place on this earth, don’t they? IF dogs ran the Vatican would they think of torturing cats as evil beings, or other dogs who didn’t conform?
    The penultimate reason such acts are carried out is not due to necessity, but due to the need to satisfy a desire which then brings a rush of pleasure to ones brain. An addiction in other words. Religion is an addiction like drinking coffee or smoking. It can be seen in extremis in any cult – religious, political or tribal.
    One day we might get to the stage where if we want a religious experience, instead of striving for many years to understand how we should live and be with others, and think things through; we just plug into the existing system..mindlessly ..oops that’s where we are now! No progress at all.

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: Dogs would simply annoy the cats but the cats, if they ran things, would definitely torment the dogs. Teasing dogs is catnip to them.

  25. @adammateyko: And if we observed those Vatican dogs torturing cats as evil beings, or other dogs who didn’t conform, we’d consider them to be barking mad! Ouch, that was a terrible joke. Unfortunately, barking madness over sexual issues is also the ugly reality of the RCC hierarchy.

  26. Igneous

    Religion is the ultimate gig for the con man. If people know that you have form you can just say that you have been miracuously saved.

  27. charlottemom

    righto –
    yes, religion can be a great gig for the con man — so do you abolish religious thought or go after the con man? con men are found in ALL societal institutions – gov, medicine, education, finance, etc. etc.

    Religious thought directed at achieving and maximizing collective humanity is not a bad deal. Hypocrites in any religion/ideology are concerned about furthering ONLY the interests their select group, tribe, sect etc to the detriment of others are the problem

    RE Jesus — does it really matter if he was straight, married or gay? I look at his words, deeds, examples of love, inclusion, forgiveness, peace, etc. Those are human ideals. He is the human ideal. I hate the identity politicization of him as being anything other that god’s supreme human being.

    re the bible as the word of god. yes to a degree, but it focuses on the jewish narrative and history and is therefore incomplete. It is also allegorical and yes, penned by humans and rife with hyperbole and self-motivated accounts.

    just my 2 cents

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: It is LIFE AND DEATH understanding if Jesus was gay. The chances of him being gay are very high. Remember: his part of the world had been run for several CENTURIES by Greeks and then Romans who had no onus about being gay, far from it. Being gay was OK.

  28. TweedleDeeDumb

    Concerning “religion” and the brain..

    Because of God, the physiology within living brain cells is made possible.

    This is fact, even in an all atheist medical office.

    Scientists cannot create 1 living cell of anything, nor 1 seed in any of the envelopes at the bigmart garden center.

    Why?

    They can’t create the spiritual base.

    Observing the living cell under the microscope reveals the RESULTS of spiritual brilliance. It’s never, “chemistry did it, all by itself!”

    “And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (Col 1:17)

    P.S. Elaine: I must say, your site is now on its way to a broader audience with plenty of “buzz”. You have entered the cyberspacial land of “mega-controversy-on all-topics”. This could be the start of the next youtube. Everyone will learn.
    🙂

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: The goddess of Random Chance, ie, Lady Luck, created all life forms totally accidentally.

  29. leavingtheoffice

    As the overwhelming evidence shows that homosexuality is not a choice, the Catholic Church will eventually relent.

    My mother used to have her hand whacked with a yard stick by crazy old nuns because she wrote with her left. Eventually, society accepted that left handedness was physiological and the crazies had no choice but to accept it. Outside of the ignorant deep south, most young people in the developed world are very tolerant of gays and churches can only ignore the sea change for so long before they become irrelevant relics (as they have become in most of the developed world, aside from the Empire).

  30. emsnews

    Left handedness, like being gay, is genetic. And is about the same proportion of the population and this is due to it being USEFUL to the species so the genes remain in the gene pool.

    Ask any pitcher in the major leagues, why being a southpaw is so important. Ditto, in military matters or boxing or many other things. Being a southpaw has some benefits.

    As for gays: families which shelter and protect gays tend to have better children thanks to gay males and gay females devoting their energy towards nieces and nephews. The greater protection from other adults, the more successful the children.

  31. Paul S

    I think too many equate christians with the posers. People like Pat Robertson and the other right wingers claiming to be christian. Note the “C” Streeters a la Bob Stupak and other mc’s. These guys think they are part of some select group to whom the rules of right and wrong do NOT apply. Although everyone else needs to be punished. And Pat Robertson? Don’t get me started on him! This is a “christian” who has no qualms about ordering Hugo Chavez to be killed. Why? Well the REAL reason is Chavez stood up to the oil companies and the IMF. The US State Department organized a coup attempt against Chavez–they failed. Pat Robertson is a despicable human being who has no business calling himself christian. I think what’s interesting is how the Republican Party can appeal to the Christian right for support during the campaign seasons AND then completely ignore them post-election. One would think after awhile the religious right would get to wondering if supporting Republicans is a good idea. How the repugs get away with this con is a mystery.

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: Religious fanatics and intelligence are strangers.

  32. GodIsLove

    Well said on everything, charlottemom. Like you, I tried to understand the puzzle of EMS, and her strong dislike / hatred of God, church, and religion. Since she won’t answer, I’ll give you my take from reading her blog for the last year and a half and a few e-mail exchanges. (1) Difficult childhood with lots of “religious” hypocrites in her family, so transfer of anger and hurt to others. (2) General non-conformity, free-thinking, and cynicism of most leaders of human institutions as power-hungry jerks, often rightfully so. (3) Unusual life experiences from being struck by lightning and an alternate view of reality. (4) She hangs out with “the Watchers” in “the Outer Darkness,” who she describes as “demonic”, “alien” “more reliable than humans”, who show her visions of the future (like the Apocalypse), and make her do painful things. I wonder what they think about God? Hahaha. But of course she’ll say these creatures are all in her head.

    See:

    http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/ezmoneymatters/2008/09/gop-girls-go-wi.html

    The closest Elaine ever gets to the truth about God is here, morning the death of a child:

    http://culturelifereligion.blogspot.com/2006_01_01_archive.html

    “There is nothing else, not anything, just love, and love is all there really is, deep inside, it is what keeps us not only alive but living, not entombed in eternal death but alive, to feel, for feeling love is what our souls are, they can only exist when there is love and love is everything and the end of everything.

    Readers of this blog can probably guess that I am not an atheist.

    So behold, this, and remember, it all comes together again, eventually, for all of us. We can’t tell how or why, it just is, this stream of light, this effervesant river of love, always, in eternal embrace, the greatest force of all in the universe.”

    Beautiful, and true. Maybe someday she’ll realize that God is Love. Imperfect humans behaving badly and lying demons cannot change this eternal truth.

  33. @Paul S, the poseurs are far more numerous than one would like to believe. Add to this the arrogant popes, archbishops, regular bishops, patriarchs, priests and ministers in the “conservative” churches and their blind followers and you have a recipe for disaster. The worst bunch being the end-timers since they want to bring on the Apocalypse! As Elaine said, it is literally a matter of life and death to settle the issue of Jesus’ sexual orientation once and for all, for if these end-times nut jobs are convicted in their hearts that he was gay, the wind might be taken out of their sails so they won’t gain total power in the US and start WW3, thus putting Jesus to the test to precipitate his second coming. And if he fails the test by not showing up? In that case we’re all fucked. The plants and animals, too.

  34. emsnews

    God (goddess) can be ‘love’ but Christianity is based not on love but NAKED FEAR.

    And anyone who lies about this is treated with contempt here! I grew up in the Church and know very well how much love there is: NONE AT ALL.

    The believers love THEMSELVES and hate anyone who doesn’t believe whatever they believe. And worse, many Christians hate each other which is hilarious. For example, the sweet Amish believe only they will go to Heaven where they will sit with Jesus and look at the rest of humanity being tormented forever.

    Um, where is the love?

    This is a true story:

    Ahem…heh…

    A Christian died. He went to the Gates of Death where Jesus sat in justice. ‘I love YOU, Jesus! Let me into heaven!’ cried the Christian.

    ‘First, you must help me judge the dead, it is hard work,’ said Jesus.

    ‘That’s easy!’ thought the Christian. So along came a Muslim child, crying for his mommy. ‘Come to me, child,’ said Jesus, ‘And I will protect you and treasure you forever in Heaven.’

    ‘What the hell?’ yelled the Christian. ‘He doesn’t love you and didn’t pray to you and wasn’t baptized, even! To hell with him!’

    ‘You just passed judgement on yourself, ‘ said Jesus and down to hell went the Christian.

    ‘Hey, everyone here is a Christian!’ said the Christian. ‘This must be heaven!’

  35. emsnews

    By the way, I have told this story since 1967. Always, always, always, Christians get very angry with me when I tell it. Far from being happy for the Muslim child saved by their hero, they are very pissed that this child gets what they are so greedy for: to live forever.

  36. Dibbles

    It’s all Eve’s fault.

    Funny how scapegoating is so embedded in religion. Never can human imperfection be acknowledged in religious “authorities”. That would seem too fallible. Better to keep up all pretense.

    You are so correct about repression and mirror acts of “evil”. Religion seems as capable of managing humanity’s spiritual affairs as investment bankers are of policing themselves for economic soundness.

    Thanks Elaine.

  37. Dibbles

    I came across this yesterday and had a good chuckle:

    Oklahoma bill targeting gays hilariously misses its mark

    http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0329/oklahoma-bill-targeting-gays-misses-mark/

    I’m sure the righteous folks of Oklahoma will correct this right away so they can carry on with God’s work.

  38. TweedleDeeDumb

    “By the way, I have told this story since 1967.”
    elaine

    Yes, but it is a nonsense story.

    It’s non-Biblical.

    “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.” (Ac 17:30-31)
    🙂

  39. emsnews

    If Jesus is love, then my story is true (note that the Christian was supposed to JUDGE and he was ANGRY and NOT FORGIVING). My long, long life, I have noticed that love is often a one way street.

  40. JT

    “There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dares not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed.”
    -Bertrand Russell-

    “Are you never afraid of God’s judgment in denying him?
    “Most certainly not. I also deny Zeus and Jupiter and Odin and Brahma, but this causes me no qualms. I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.”
    -Bertrand Russell-

    “The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
    -Bertrand Russell-

  41. truth

    “Yes, but it is a nonsense story.

    It’s non-Biblical.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  42. Onion

    The Church of England are feeling left out. From the article:

    PROTESTANT child molesters last night warned they were becoming the ‘forgotten men’ of Christian paedophilia.

    Across the Anglican, Presbyterian and Baptist communities clergymen with a warped desire for young boys insisted they were ‘every bit as degenerate’ as their Papist rivals.

    The leading protestant denominations are now calling on the media to switch its attention to their dirty record to counter what they claim is millions of pounds worth of free publicity for the Roman Catholic Church.

    One Welsh Baptist minister said: “I feel I’m being sidelined simply because I do not idolise the Virgin Mary and go on and on about johnny bags.

    “It’s typical pro-Catholic media bias. I wonder if people would pay more attention to my desperate acts of filth if there was some kind of Baptist Pope in Swansea.”

    He added: “A lot of these Roman Catholic chaps are frustrated by their celibacy and then channel it through their acts of vile depravity. But I’ve got a wife I can have sex with – I don’t even need to do this. That’s got to count for something.”

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/protestant-child-molesters-'being-sidelined'-201003292599/

  43. TweedleDeeDumb

    jt,

    “As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God.”
    b. russell

    He may have won an extra teaspoon of sugar in his coffee, on that one, regarding agnosticism.

    The atheist steps it up and makes a non-Biblical “faith” leap into irrationality.

    Bertrand knew the creation requires the Creator. The proof was all around him.

    Thus, “without excuse”.

    “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” (Ro 1:20)

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: CREATRIX…She was female.

  44. TweedleDeeDumb

    elaine,

    One who is a NEW CREATION in Christ must appear before the Judgment seat of Christ.

    It is not an issue of eternal salvation. He or she is ALREADY a child of the King.

    It is an issue of the investment of that particular Christian life, and of reward or loss. And there, of course, is much to say about it.

    “If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” (1Co 3:14-15)

    And yes, the love demonstrated at Calvary was, is, and will be, incomparable.

    The failings of one of HIS little ones, on the journey home, never makes the infallible FACT of His victory go away.

    If you receive Christ someday, would you expect Him to be patient with you, as you grow in the “love of Christ”?
    🙂

  45. The Christians love to say people who don’t believe or don’t act or don’t express their sexuality as they think they should are ‘without excuse.’ They also love to say that anyone in Christ is a ‘new creation.’

    Yet even Paul knew it was more complicated.

    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? (Romans 7:21-24)

    Yet history is replete with Christians persecuting other people who don’t believe as they think they should believe, who don’t act the way they think they should act, or who don’t have a sexual orientation they think is morally “correct.” This started internally in the church even before Constantine! I mentioned Clement of Rome’s letter to Theodore in an above post — in the same letter he commends Theodore for silencing the Carpocratians! And in the 4th Century CE, the non-believing Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus said, “The emnity of the Christians toward each other surpassed the fury of savage beasts against man.”

  46. GodIsLove

    “God (goddess) can be ‘love’ but Christianity is based not on love but NAKED FEAR.

    And anyone who lies about this is treated with contempt here!”

    Jesus’ commandment to His disciples was “Love one another as I have loved you,” to “Love God with your whole heart and mind,” and to “Love your neighbor as yourself.” It was NOT “Everyone must do everything my future followers say or else they will burn in hell!”

    True Christians love everyone, and don’t hate anyone.

    Jesus Christ came because “God so loved the world,” to show the world how to love, to encourage others to love each other, and to save us from our sinful selves. Anyone who lies about this should be treated with contempt and pity, and recognized as someone who comes from the enemy, who wants you to hate, to be empty, to be miserable, and to be away from God and His Infinite Love in eternity. That’s what Hell is.

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: You forget, I grew up in a born again Christian household. I know the real naked fear. Anyone who fakes it and pretends this is all about love…sheesh.

  47. JT

    @TweedleDeeDumb

    Not that I expect to accomplish anything.
    But which creator? We have so many gods to choose from.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukko

    “While Ukko mated with his wife Akka, (which consequently means “old woman” in modern Finnish, whereas “ukko” means “old man”) the act created a thunderstorm”

    Now that´s good sex at least.
    The old Gods were much more fun at least.

    btw…
    Do you have any problem with the fact that Muslims, Jews and Christians have the same God only different prophets?

    So isn´t everybody going to heaven in these holy wars of ours? 😉

    ΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: I must say, lighting storms may be ‘god sex’ but it sure is painful and loud. 🙂

  48. TweedleDeeDumb

    jt,

    God has provided His infallible revelation in the Bible via HIS promises.

    It is THE final authority regarding any supposed “spiritual teaching”. Other “teachings” on “creator” are simply N/A.

    The infallible Bible is THE final authority on the Person, Life, and Work of Jesus Christ.

    The qur’an is not.

    Muhammed was a fallen sinner in need of the Saviour.

    Jesus Christ was God manifest in flesh..

    “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1Ti 3:16)
    🙂

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: Doesn’t take long for a Christian to show hatred of others.

  49. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    AFTER you receive Christ someday, keep reading.
    Onward to Romans 8.
    🙂

  50. Jim Dandy

    It never fails to amaze me how sanctimonious people on both sides of the religious argument are. Who cares what others believe? Who cares who others choose as their mate? It seems like the whole gay issue is a financial one and to that extent it involves public policy debate. Otherwise, who is to say what is the truth and what is acceptable.

    The extent of stupidity is breathtaking.

  51. @TweedleDeDumb,

    You forget, I was a Jesus Contactee who accepted Christ, as you say, until I discovered that Nazareth was a city of the dead (area dedicated to tombs) before and during the lifetime of Jesus, that all extra-Christian references to Jesus have been revealed to be bad interpretations or outright forgeries, and that the gospels themselves are hopelessly in conflict with each other — and get dates wrong. It was a Catholic archaeologist that dug up the evidence concerning Nazareth: nothing but funerary evidence in the first century CE and before.

    And the Jewish and Christian scriptures contradict themselves on the subject of homosexuality, also. Interesting that, in a Bible that supposedly condemns homosexuality, David and Johnathan had a same-sex relationship that Johnathan’s dad, King Saul, KNEW was sexual, and that Jesus himself had a same-sex relationship with Lazarus / the beloved disciple that others, disciples, believing women, and unbelieving Jews alike, remarked upon as more intimate, special and peculiar. Why did the Jewish Temple Police seek to apprehend a nearly naked youth who accompanied Jesus after the others fled in the Garden of Gethsemane (Mk 14:50-52)?

  52. @Jim Dandy:

    It seems like the whole gay issue is a financial one and to that extent it involves public policy debate.

    You are correct about the economical issues. What it boils down to, is that the Huge Christians do NOT want the federal government, the states, cities and towns, and businesses to treat us LGBT* people equally and fairly. But it is also about these same Huge Christians wanting the entire secular sphere to treat us as less than equal to others: economically, sociologically and psychologically. In otherwords, kind of subhuman and sometimes SO inferior, that in the way we express ourselves, they want us to be criminalised. And it has been proven that sociological discrimination affects us psychologically and can hold us back economically — especially for those of us who don’t figure things out for ourselves and get ourselves educated.

    They also forget we live in a secular republic with a separation of church and state: such a doctrine is actually found in a command by Jesus! And in that the Huge Christians ignore the command of the one they call Lord, Lord! “Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and give unto God that which is God’s.”

    *LGBT = lesbian, gay male, bisexual, transgender

  53. @Elaine

    For example, the sweet Amish believe only they will go to Heaven where they will sit with Jesus and look at the rest of humanity being tormented forever

    That’s common to most Christians. They think they’ll be at the railing of Heaven, looking down at everybody else writhing in fiery torment for an infinite amount of time. Tertullian, Thomas Aquinas and Johnathan Edwards all have confirmed this. I for one, think it’s barbaric!

  54. JT

    @TweedleDeeDumb

    But if we leave books aside. You agree jews, christians and muslims have the same God?
    The querrel is mostly about which sect wrote the best books?

    Happy easter everyone:

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: Absolutely everything in the Life of Brian is hilarious.

  55. tbill

    This is a very funny comment section.

    If you are emotionally dead the chances weigh strongly that you will have an opportunity(ies) to feel god in whatever denomination is in front of your face at that time period. Whether it is met with confusion, disdain, awe, fear or a combination facilitates the outcome. Life is a series of layers that build off each other. The more trust that evolves in putting solace into others for direction or comfort the farther the disconnect from your truth. aka “the truth” for those authority figures.

  56. emsnews

    We are all gods and goddesses. Then, there are elemental natural laws of the Universe which are relentless and which is why all our gods and goddesses die.

  57. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    God has providentially preserved HIS Word perfect in the Bible. It is thus sacred, infallible, and final authority.

    God doesn’t need the permission of fallen-sinner, historian-ites, or high priests, to fulfill HIS Will..

    “Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.” (Lu 3:2)

    Always disregard Bible-critical information..
    ..it’s all worthless.

    For the homosexual, Jesus Christ delivers from that sinful behaviour AND from the homosexual thoughts and affections, via the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

    The homosexual is then, as a Christian, liberated and transformed WITHIN, to live a holy and godly life.

    And this is wonderful.
    🙂

  58. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    Always remember that the final authority on the Bible, is the Bible.

    The OT is the NT concealed.
    The NT is the OT revealed.

    AND also remember, that the final authority, on any references in the NT, regarding “fulfillments” of the OT, IS the NT.

    Rabbinical criticisms of the NT are, as usual, N/A.

    Hope that helps.
    🙂

  59. TweedleDeeDumb

    “We are all gods and goddesses.”

    elaine,

    You’d best check with Hitchens, Dawkins, Maher, and Sam Harris on that one.
    😉

    Again, I enjoy your articles, particularly on global/economic issues. Of course, we differ on core/theological matters, but we all learn a little here and there. Keep writing.
    🙂

  60. @TweedleDeeDumb (or is it TwaddleDeeDumb ?) 🙂

    God doesn’t need the permission of fallen-sinner, historian-ites, or high priests, to fulfill HIS Will

    It was his will that Jesus return from the skies to establish his kingdom in his disciples’ lifetime. (Matt 24:33-34, Mark 13: 29-30, Luke 21:31-32) What happened?

    For the homosexual, Jesus Christ delivers from that sinful behaviour AND from the homosexual thoughts and affections, via the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

    The homosexual is then, as a Christian, liberated and transformed WITHIN, to live a holy and godly life.

    And this is wonderful.

    Rubbish. Every gay man who’ve come out of Christian circles and even some I know who are still in them, have reported that they’ve, like myself, constantly “struggled” with homosexuality: that is, the struggle with the guilt and fear caused by the conflict between indoctrination with Christian BS and one’s natural sexuality. I know I had constantly prayed, especially during summer, “Lord deliver me from these lusts!” and NO response from the Diety.

    Always remember that the final authority on the Bible, is the Bible.

    So the final authority on a scientifically wrong, internally inconsistent book is the same scientifically wrong, internally inconsistent book! Examples: the Earth is a flat disk (Isaiah 40:22) in a three-decker universe (Phillipians 2:10). Jesus blesses the Centurion by healing his precious servant / boy (entimos doulos / pais) and praises him for his faith (Matthew 8:5-13, Luke 7:1-10) despite the obvious homosexual affectational relationship revealed in the original Greek! No condemnation in this scene, in contradistinction to the traditional interpretation of Romans 1:26-27 and I Cor 6:9-10. Nice logic you have here.

    Maybe Jesus should have skipped the homosexual Centurion and healed the goddess wife of a banking gnome! (“My precioussss…”) 🙂

  61. JT

    @elaine

    “I must say, lighting storms may be ‘god sex’ but it sure is painful and loud. :)”

    But wouldn´t it be a comforting thought that God was aiming at mrs God. Not little Elaine.
    😀

  62. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    Yes, the Bible is always infallible, regardless of your perception of a verse.

    Contradictions are in your head, never the infallible Scriptures.

    But after you become a NEW CREATION in Christ, God will teach you.

    Your will grow in the understanding of passages..

    “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2Pe 3:16)

    “Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,” (Lu 24:45)
    🙂

  63. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    Of course, victory is available in Christ. But you must be taught. Paul knew victory and won “Well done..”. So can you.

    “(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2Co 10:4-5)

    Victory WITHIN will effect Victory in behaviour.

    Read, “The Holy War” by Bunyan
    Read, “The Christian in Complete Armour” by Gurnall.
    🙂

  64. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    Your “original greek” comment is complete nonsense.

    God has providentially preserved His Word perfect in HIS living Word in English.

    “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”(2Ti 3:16-17)
    🙂

    Receive Christ.
    The eternal adventure will begin.

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: Jesus spoke in Swahili. I heard this through the grapevine. 🙂

  65. @TweedleDeeDumb,

    “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2Pe 3:16)

    Maybe it’s because Yahweh set it up as a trap? Or because it’s a goofy book, full of errors, myths, lies and contradictions?

    – God created daytime, nighttime and the plants before he created the sun and the moon were. (Genesis 1:4, 5, 11-18)
    – The bat is a bird. (Leviticus 11:13 & 19)
    – Hares chew the cud. (Leviticus 11:5-6)
    – Some fowl have four legs. (Leviticus 11:20-21)
    – Some insects have four legs also. (Leviticus 11:22-23)
    – All men and women are naturally heterosexual. (Romans 1:26-27) Even Plato knew this was false. (Symposium, 191-92)

    The New Testament records that Jesus himself said he spoke in parables lest the masses “should understand . . . and should be converted, and I should heal them.” (Matthew 13:10-15) It also records that he intended for them NOT to be forgiven!: “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’ ” (Mark 4:11-12) Curious, that.

  66. @TweedleDeeDumb,

    Well Christian Victory should mean this:

    I have come that they may have life, and that they might have more abundantly.(John 10:10)

    Yet my experience that it was NOT more abundant! Just a constant struggle against my natural self. Sheesh.

    “Victory WITHIN will affect victory in behavior.”

    Sorry, — no, NOT sorry — but “receiving Christ” and joining a Christian cult doesn’t affect victory within, that is, a change in sexual orientation, which would be a prerequisite for a natural change in in sexual behaviour from gay to straight. And evangelical churches and “ex-gay minstries” everywhere have decided to change the behavior ONLY. The “victory” that ensues from this are gay men who suicide, leave the faith, remain miserable and celibate, or try to be heterosexual. The last “victorious” action is pure dishonesty towards one’s self and to others. And it’s not fair to heterosexual women who enter into marriages with gay men who think they’re going to have “victory” over their natural sexuality.

    Here’s one guy who testifies of his “victory” through an “ex-gay ministry.” Watch, listen and learn.

  67. Your “original greek” comment is complete nonsense.

    God has providentially preserved His Word perfect in HIS living Word in English

    AHHHHHH… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

  68. Dibbles

    Ed-M @ March 30, 2010 at 12:15 am

    If you’re still around, is there some way I can contact you? Elaine, with his permission, is there a way you can help me?

    I forwarded your (Ed-M) referenced video link to a life long friend who’s son is gay. My friend is the president of Pflag in our area. She was interested in finding more material from the fellow in the video. It is extremely well done and the sort of material needed to help counter religious persecution and harassment.

  69. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    The roots WITHIN the fallen sinner, are corrupt.

    The corrupt branches are indictative of a deeper problem. Hate, prejudice, lust, fornication thoughts, adulterous thoughts, homosexual thoughts, coveteous thoughts, etc. are but the corrupt branches.

    The “old man” cannot be patched and fixed.

    God creates a NEW MAN IN CHRIST…
    ..a new creation AND a new POWER, through the Spirit.

    Ministry “ex-names” and “ex-groups” do not change the homosexual. God does.

    “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye THROUGH THE SPIRIT do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” Ro. 8:13

    “Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth THROUGH THE SPIRIT unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:” 1 Pet. 1:22

    Read, “Beyond Humiliation” by Greg Mantel
    Read, “The Complete Green Letters” by Miles Stanford

    The victory is always in Christ.
    There’s more wonderful truths to discover.
    There’s GRACE abounding, but..

    “Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR hearts.” Heb. 4:7
    🙂

  70. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    And remember, always disregard Bible-critical information. It’s all worthless.

    You will not be invoiced for that advice.
    😉

    Always go with infallible FACT..

    “Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and IN THREE DAYS I will raise it up.” Jn. 2:19
    🙂

  71. emsnews

    No animal or even plants on earth think sex is horrible. Quite the contrary. They love it and do it full heartedly! So why are these gods so fixated on this?

  72. Dibbles

    Elaine,
    I don’t think these gods are fixated….only the closet voyeur reciting select passages.

  73. @Dibbles,

    Certainly, I can forward you some additional information from the young man featured in my posted video. I don’t know him personally but I can give you references to additional videos and other info that he’s posted on the web.

  74. @TweedleDeeDumb,

    Obviously you have not read any of my above posts concerning Jesus and Lazarus / the beloved disciple, and Jesus and the homosexual Centurion. Either that or it didn’t register in your brain. Hence, you do not understand that your bible has serious contradictions concerning homosexuality; at the very least it totally undermines your religion’s teachings on the subject. After all, why would your god deliver me from homosexual desires and affection if Jesus, who is supposed to be his son, approved of a homosexual relationship by healing the Centurion’s precious servant boy and had a similar relationship himself with Lazarus / the beloved disciple??? And there’s sufficient biblical evidence for this without Secret Mark!

    And if a new man is created in Christ, how come the old man hangs around?

    Ministry “ex-names” and “ex-groups” do not change the homosexual. God does.

    God changes the homosexual. Into what? Certainly not into a heterosexual, by my experience and the experience of othe gay men I know and know of, who’ve been through authoritarian Christianities that tried to have god change us into heteros. In each case, god was not listening or did not grant the request! I doubt very much that god was ever in the sexual orientation change business. In fact, Hyppolytus in 218 CE said that “A prostitute, a sodomite, or who does unmentionable things shall be rejected because he is defiled.” Church Order in The Apostolic Tradition 16 This is because we are fearfully and wonderfully made, by Lady Luck, the goddess of Random Chance. Which also explains homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

    And remember, always disregard Bible-critical information. It’s all worthless.

    Always go with infallible FACT..

    You went out on a limb there! I know for a proven fact that there are old greek parchments for the NT that do not agree with each other. The KJV, which was authorised by a “sodomite” English king (yes, he had male lovers) and which you cite verses from as if they are magic talismans, relied on later Greek texts that conflicted seriously with earlier texts according to bible scholars both worshipful and critical. And so, we have dozens of newer English versions which a lot of Christians reject for being erroneous. Which is why I look at the bible with a jaundiced eye.

    And yes, I do rely on infallible fact… scientifically PROVEN fact beyond a reasonable doubt… and theories based on those facts.

  75. King James, posing as a sodomite, starting at age 14!

  76. Dibbles

    Thanks so much Ed-M. I’m not sure how to contact you without making email public, so:

    Elaine, are you able to use the email addresses provided in this “Leave a Reply” section? If so can you send mine to Ed-M or his to my email address?

    I apologize for the request as I know you are very busy with important matters. I don’t know how else I can privately get the info.

    Ed-M I know my Pflag friend would love to share dialog and information with you. Her work is so important and you offer excellent reference material.

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: I just did it.

  77. @ Dibbles,

    I will send Elaine my email address and you can send her yours, once she gives us the go-ahead.

    @ Elaine,

    Would you, if you please, be able and willing to forward our email addresses to each other? I know you’re super busy and all with everything you do: running a farm, keeping a blog, participating in your local community, and that’s for starters! Thanks.

  78. norcalkid

    And humankind created gods and goddesses in their own images.

    All that faith stuff changes the real world not one whit. If you want things to change, then get to work making the changes. I never could “believe,” having suffered from clinical depression since I was a child. No kind and loving god/dess was around to help me; I had to live through the pain on my own.

    Fear or worship a deity? Why? That must be a damned small deity that needs to be worshiped. Let them worship themselves. I have better use for my time.

  79. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    AFTER you become a NEW CREATION in Christ, Bible commentary will begin to become possible for you.

    God providentially preserved HIS Word via HIS promises from autograph through apograph through to translation.

    It cannot be otherwise.

    All is God centric.

    Varieties of kings and councils are simply footnotes of history.

    Never doubt the infallible Bible.
    Doubt finds its moorings in Hell.

    “For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.” (2Co 2:17)

    Receive Christ.
    And always dump Bible critical information created by the sin defenders.

    Join the immortals.
    King Jesus is returning.
    🙂

  80. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    If you need an infallible Bible, download one for N/C..

    http://www.Bibleprotector.com

    “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the TRUE GOD, and eternal life.”(1Jo 5:20)
    🙂

  81. IndianaJohn

    Honest gays are men and women who happily enjoy sex with each other.
    Man/man and woman/woman sex is a stinkpot. No gaiety in that, just queers, pack of lies and more stink. Delusions of gender too.

  82. Dibbles

    Hi again Elaine and Ed-m,
    I haven’t received anything in my email that allows me to communicate with you. Apologies for the hassle.

    Happy Easter as we celebrate the ancient rebirth of life at the end of another long, cold, dark winter!

  83. @TweedleDeeDumb,

    I have told you time and again that by my experience and those of countless other gay men, lesbians, bisexual and transgendered people who tried to “choose” heterosexuality and ended up not attaining “victory” in this choice and you have refused to listen! I have told you that the early church refused to admit as a candidate for salvation “a sodomite, or who does unmentionable things… because he is defiled” This means God apparently did not foreknow these people, did not predestine them for salvation and did not keep them “pure” of “defilement.”

    And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Romans 8:28-30 KJV)

    Backatcha, thou who loveth to quote biblical passages at me as if they were magic talismans! 😉 It is obvious to us and our heterosexual allies that your mind is made up and shall not be confused with the proven scientific facts.

    Dan Gonzalez told the same thing in an open response to Sarah Palin when she said homosexuality was a “choice.”

    And she’s going to be our next President????? HAHAHA. 🙂

  84. @TweedleDeeDumb,

    Bible Protector Site duly noted.

  85. @IndianaJohn,

    Honest gaysstraights are men and women who happily enjoy sex with each other.

    There, I fixed it for ya. 🙂

    Man/man and woman/woman sex is a stinkpot. No gaiety in that, just queers, pack of lies and more stink. Delusions of gender too.

    Something tells me you’re not likely to be an honest straight. The University of Georgia did a study that revealed that 80% of homophobic men who believed they were straight actually were aroused by gay male porn!

  86. Dibbles, I am sending Subject heading: FW: Dibbles – from Comments Re: Catholic Church Pedophiles Should Apologise To Honest Gays. It has lots of info about that young man’s journey. (I had sent a copy to Elaine. Sorry, Elaine!)

  87. Dibbles

    Thank you so much Ed-M and Elaine.

    As agent Fox Mulder used to say, “the truth is out there”.

    I share in your truth-seeking and it’s better than I could have ever imagined.

    The good fight to get the self-serving sociopaths out of the way is our “biblical” struggle.

    Thanks again!

  88. @Dibbles,

    You’re most heartily welcome! We have the science and the facts at our backs; all the self-serving sociopaths and their narcissistic, willfuly deluded followers (like TweedleDeeDumb) have is moralistic twaddle based on the traditionally sex-negative interpretations of six bible passages.

  89. TweedleDeeDumb

    ed-m,

    Yes, victory is available in Christ.

    The redeemed bank-robber is not perpetually chained to rush each store along a NY sidewalk, and empty the cash register because they, “can’t help themselves”.

    Correspondingly, the fornicator, homosexual, adulterer, murderer, etc. is neither chained to THEIR sin due to, “I can’t help it.”

    The indwelling Holy Spirit, in the life of the Christian, is GOD. To resistantly state, “God is not sufficient” in order to retain the sin, is simply deception. God can well handle the “Goliaths” of sin.

    Don’t stand in the way of others in denial of Biblical revelatory FACT. You’ve already wasted too much time.

    “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” (Ga 5:16-18)

    Receive Christ.
    You have a lot to learn.
    And God will teach you.
    🙂

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