Norway Proves Christian Fanatics Can Be Very Murderous

Knights Templar 2083 by Anders Behring Breivik – Oslo killer‬‏ – YouTube

Just like the assassin in Arizona, the young man in Norway drank a lot of dreck and posted his own manifesto and video on the internet before going on his ‘crusade’ against the government of Norway and leftist or even centralist politicians and government agencies.  The far right has a huge underbelly of anarchism coupled with ‘rule by the fist’ which leads to gangsterism.  That is, they want to persuade via bombs, assassinations and ethnic cleansing.  This reminds me most strongly of the most culturally powerful nation on earth, fascist Israel, and how this is inspiring the far right wing Christians to LITERALLY go on a Apocalyptic crusade, one that will inevitably end with the annihilation of all Jews in another, much nastier Holocaust.

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All my life (and for many years, I was Mrs. Levy so I have very good reasons to fear fascism!) I have warned the Jewish community, they are on the road to annihilation.  Pointing out how tremendous wealth and control over the US government by Jewish elites is leading us straight towards this Apocalyptic hell falls on deaf ears since it is so easy to simply demand and then get endless funding from US taxpayers, special benefits and hijacking our State Department so it works only and exclusively for Israeli Jews and ceased operating for American interests: all of this is tremendously explosive for the far right is extremely addicted to ‘lock and load’ violence.

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You Tube started a policy whereby Zionists can complain to the guys running the joint about any videos they want censored.  So, You Tube pulled the Norway assassin’s video but shadow videos were submitted and these are behind account locked doors so you have to sign in to see it.  There is nothing obscene nor illegal in the video, just the usual crusader/poor little me claptrap the fascists like to create.  There is zero reasons to have it behind a locked account.  None what so ever.

I got this video by going to foreign news services which gave me the link, thank goodness.  Norwegian killer posted manifesto, video before attacks – Hindustan Times

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The document, headlined “A European Declaration of Independence”, is written by Andrew Berwick, but the author says in the text this is an anglicised version of Anders Breivik.

In the 1,500-page document the author expresses his extreme anti-Muslim political views and describes the attacks which are to be carried out.

It describes how to make bombs from fertilisers and how to receive them in large quantities by setting up an agricultural company.

The author says he emailed it to thousands of people, mostly his “patriotic Facebook friends” and their friends. He says it took him nine years to write the manifesto, reflecting his background and political views…Breivik was also arrested for the bombing of Oslo’s government district that killed seven people hours earlier. Norway’s toughest sentence is 21 years in jail.

 

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As I surmised immediately after the attacks, this is a nearly exact replica of the Oklahoma bombers who deliberately targeted not just government agencies but to get revenge for the deaths of the Waco suicide cult’s children, the bombers parked their truck right next to the daycare center so that it would definitely kill the children.  They showed no remorse nor any interest in the many deaths.  They viewed these dead fellow Americans as human sacrifices on the altar of their god, a god I happen to dislike more and more as I get older.

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That is, this god is very bloody.  He demands his followers kill each other and anyone else who doesn’t worship him.  The problem with this horrible god is simple to see if one is not blind to reality: each follower believes in their hearts, they and only they are the best buddies of this strange and bloody god and if they kill people who have slightly different rituals, they will be rewarded with eternal bliss while those they kill will burn in hell forever for their entertainment.

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Since most groups adhering to this vain and I feel, very obnoxious god (which really acts like a ‘demon’, just read the accounts written by believers to see how amoral and bizarre and sexually repressed this thing is!) believe in a wide, wide variety of rules and sexual regulations all of which are repressive.  These social rules include what to eat and how to eat and when to eat and other matters that really should be no god’s business since they are not humans!  Indeed, all religions have beliefs about how to feed these gods and they are called ‘sacrifices’ and often, these are bloody affairs since many gods are not only carnivores but eat humans, too.

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People who devote themselves to service to these gods become cruel.  No surprise, if one attaches oneself to a cruel god, one easily then can act cruelly.  The wonderful thing about true liberalism is that it freed people from serving various often vicious gods.  One could be free to choose what to eat, how to enjoy sex, how to raise one’s child (liberalism in learning is a HUGE topic and attacks on liberal education are mounted constantly by religious fanatics).  Liberalism leads to peace and plenty but it is a rocky road since humans love to use force and fear to get people to do things.  Liberalism has some very big blind spots, the biggest being the inability to understand why humans are always fearful of the End of Time and why this paradoxically leads us to activate an End of Time event.

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That is, self-destruct.  The far right is ‘bully boy’ politics.  The left is ‘scold and deny’.  The right loves to beat up people and have privileges, not civil rights.  The left wants multiculturalism coupled with suppression of the things the right loves, namely, their own ethnic groupings.  That is, liberals are trying to stop Israel’s ethnic cleansing while the right wishes they could do it in spades, too.

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One scene from the video of the assassin in Norway is typical of how the right feels very sorry for themselves when people kindly ask or pass laws forbidding racial or religious bigots from hassling people:  Killings atrocious but needed: Norway suspect – Hindustan Times

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A Norwegian website provided a link to a 1,500 page electronic manifesto which says Breivik was the author. It was not possible to verify who posted the video or wrote the book.
“Once you decide to strike, it is better to kill too many than not enough, or you risk reducing the desired ideological impact of the strike,” the book said.

Norway has traditionally been open to immigration, which has been criticized by the Progress Party, of which Breivik was for a short time a member. The Labour Party, whose youth camp Breivik attacked, has long been in favor of immigration.

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I said many times in the past, the Israeli Jews, using the US State Department, has pushed very, very, very hard to get Europe to pass laws that are gross infringements on civil rights of the majority there.  That is, there are many laws forbidding people talking about ANY religion in ANY negative way, there are no legal debates about various religious practices no matter how odious they may be to any civil rights way!  This reverses civil rights in a hundred ways.

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One cannot talk about Naziism in Europe at all except in dogma terms which causes Nazi-fascists to feel rightfully persecuted.  This, in turn, justifies THEM persecuting people, too!  It is totally insane!  One must talk about these things openly and without fear one will go to prison for say, comparing Israel to Nazi Germany.  We can still talk about this in the US but Congress is being pushed very hard by AIPAC to curb our own civil rights even further.  Here is an example from this year that is heart breaking:  Holocaust survivor’s planned talk at mosque angers Sacramento Jewish leaders

 

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Auschwitz survivor Hajo Meyer makes the 11th stop on his national “Never Again for Anyone” tour at the Sacramento League of Associated Muslims Islamic Center at 7 p.m. tonight.  Meyer has equated the Holocaust to Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territories, drawing intense fire from Sacramento’s Jewish community and the Anti-Defamation League.

 
“Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is repugnant, anti-Semitic and defiles the sacred memory of millions who perished during the Holocaust,” said Rabbi Reuven H. Taff, president of the 13-member Board of Rabbis of Greater Sacramento, in a civil but emotional exchange of letters with SALAM’s Imam Mohamed Abdul Azeez.

 
The Board of Rabbis praised Azeez for his bridge-building with other communities of faith, but asked him to either boycott the event or stop it from happening at SALAM. If he doesn’t, Taff said in a letter to him, “then all the good work you are doing to foster relations with the interfaith community will be severely undermined.”

 
“The event is not going to be canceled,” said Azeez, who encouraged “any of our friends in the Jewish community to attend, ask questions and engage the speakers.”  Azeez noted that eight national organizations and nine local organizations are sponsoring it, including the Florin Japanese American Citizens League and the local chapter of Jewish Voice for Peace.

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The Anti-defamation League is a far right wing, fascist organization run by US and Israeli neocon Jews and it functions as a club whereby they terminate any discussion about the increasingly violent, racist religious dictatorship being built in the Holy Land.  Since most of the people ruled by Tel Aviv are denied even the most basic human and civil rights and have no vote over their own affairs, they are occupied people being pushed relentlessly out of their homes, no sane person can call Israel a ‘democracy’.

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This week, the fascists are passing even more draconian laws curbing the civil rights of even Jews.  The Jews running AIPAC and Congress have haughtily ordered the Palestinians to cease fighting the Jews and to surrender and do peaceful protests, unarmed.  When they do this, they are gunned down just as brutally as the Norwegian assassin gunned down his unarmed victims.  The Palestinians are told to copy Gandhi yet Gandhi didn’t free the South African people (this is where he began, he was born there, not in India!).  On top of this, Gandhi also became a religious fanatic and so naturally, when India was ‘freed’ it led to a total bloodbath as all the religious groups there went to war with each other and tried desperately to ethnically cleanse each other.

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Millions of people died in 1948 in the division of India!  The wars rage onwards to this day!  Neither India nor Pakistan have really embraced even limited liberal ideals.  Getting rid of the Untouchable class is proving very, very difficult, for example.  And Muslims in general hate the Hindi and vice versa in spades.  Both teeter on the edge of open warfare.  Both have nukes.

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This is really disgusting:  Peres to Norway’s king: Massacre broke our hearts in Israel.  Always, the Jews try desperately to disassociate their own vicious fascism from Nazi European fascists.  Even though they are soul mates, the Jews feel understandable alarm when the European fascists declare a crusade because, since the first invasion into the Middle East by religious fanatics from Europe in the 12th century, the killing and looting of Jews was very much part of these crusades!

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Meanwhile, even as Peres weeps for liberals gunned down by deranged right wing fanatics who want to do Jewish-style ethnic cleansing, Israeli ministers mull apology to Turkey over Gaza flotilla.  The Jews feel they had a right to invade unarmed ships and attack civilians and kill them.  They used up even more US diplomatic capital to suppress condemnation of this piracy.  They nearly destroyed NATO by getting the US to side with them, not Turkey, in this matter when they are clearly in the wrong.

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NATO limps along, barely, and its main function now is to be the staging base for anti-Muslim wars which pop up with depressing frequency, more and more, not less and less.  The right wing fascists itch to invade Muslim lands, one of the first acts of Italy’s fascists, before the German Nazis supported Franco, was to invade Muslim countries in Africa!

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All US war technology is transferred to Israel so instead of buying these assassin machines from the US, France to buy Israeli-made drones, ending 42-year weapons embargo.  Sarkozy worked hard for his people and got this boon for Israel.  The US is desperate to have more trade yet the very first ‘free trade’ partner we had was NOT Mexico, it was Israel.  And this week, Congress/Knesset increased spending for Israel while in furious and even insane screaming debates about cutting almost all social services in the US because supposedly, we are going broke.

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The Jewish community should be shaking in their boots over this!  Instead of cutting aid to Israel to zero to prove they are American patriots, they barge right ahead, left, right and center politicians of both parties in pay to AIPAC, to give Jews more money for themselves at our expense.  As if no one will notice!  Twenty years ago, if you went to comments about this on line, most people were happy to support Israel this way but today, the comments are hair raising, a lot of people are beginning to notice despite it being hidden by our media owners.  And they are very angry about it.

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In the Zionist NYT, they had this heart breaking article about how Jews have bid up the value of their own real estate due to easy lending (ahem, an identical housing bubble as we had here!  Created by the same people!) so Tel Aviv protesters demand reduction in housing prices while Netanyahu rebukes ministers: Give me ideas to solve housing crisis.  How do they solve it?

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SIMPLE!  Steal the homes of Palestinian natives!  DUH!  The NYT article didn’t say one thing about housing the Palestinian people who are being brutally ruled by a bunch of greedy, self-centered Jews!  Obviously, this whole topic is infuriating. The Jews want dual citizenship in multiple countries and open borders in the US and Europe that let in floods of aliens but at the same time, they want to have Fortress Judea which attacks and kills its own people who aren’t Jews!  And locked borders so NO ONE can come in except ‘Jews’ and only ‘Jews’ who meet increasingly stringent standards of genetic rules.

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And the assassinations continue:   Iran: Murder of nuclear scientist is Israeli-American ‘act of terror’ – Haaretz 

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Iranian Parliament Speaker Ali Larijani blamed Israel and the U.S. for the murder of an Iranian nuclear scientist on Saturday, AFP reported Sunday. Larijani was quoted in the Mehr news agency calling the killing an “American-Zionist act of terror.”

He added that the death was “another sign of the degree of animosity in the United States… the Americans must think carefully about the consequences of such acts.”

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Europe sacrifices many economic ties with Iran to please Israel and they did this suicidal thing because the US demanded they do this and they run trade surpluses with the US so it pays handsomely to go along with all of this but in the long run, it is stupid.  China knows this and since China is not a religious right wing dictatorship, they can do business with ANYONE on earth and not have some god yell at them:  Iran and China increase trade.

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I dare say, communist China may end up being the only major non-fascist state on earth at this rate.  As the infection of religious/ethnic dogma coupled with economic suppression of social services in the name of free trade and to maintain the floating fiat currency system, eventually China will the the Land of the Free and this is hilarious since China is NOT free at all!  It is a semi-democratic dictatorship run by the communist elites!  But it isn’t fascist.

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Fascism, when attached to religion, is a very dangerous thing and makes people heartless.  Like gods.  And gods are not our buddies, they are uniformly dangerous.  At least our ancestors knew this and this is why they trembled with fear when dealing with the gods!  For good reason.

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40 Comments

Filed under Politics, religion

40 responses to “Norway Proves Christian Fanatics Can Be Very Murderous

  1. PFO

    Hello Elaine,

    Your comments about facist neo-con kindergartners hiding behind religious skirts are well received. They remind me of the 30 years of commentary from Dr. E. Michael Jones regarding same:

    http://www.culturewars.com/

    However, MOST not just ‘not all’ Roman Catholics, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Protestants are decent God-fearing folks who want nothing more than the chance to live out their lives in peace and happiness and enjoy their grand-children.

    Try not to lump everyone together.

    Regards,
    PFO

  2. JimmyJ

    @PFO: But we are lumped together, all 6.7 billion of us, in close and intimate proximity. Can’t simply walk over the mountain to get away from that annoying neighbour and his strange habits anymore.

    As a species we are pretty tribal individuals, self serving but beholden to the safety of whatever group satisfies our need for security. Who hasn’t personally seen, while at work, regular decent folks become irrational doctrinal bullies while serving their masters. Continent spanning wars in the name of the tribe have taken place for thousands of years across all cultures, sourced from economic insecurity and tribal intolerance. We really reap what we sew as a group of so-called regular, decent folk. At the least we are all complicit by inaction, at the worst active and eager participants.

    We have to evolve past the notion of tribal allegiance or we are lost as a species. I thought perhaps education and technology might help liberate us as our personal health and economic security gave us freedom from enslavement to economic and political allegiances. Perhaps I am too old and cynical, it appears to me that recently this process may be in retrograde. But the world is a complex and mysterious place, so we shall see.

  3. “one of the first acts of Italy’s fascists, before the German Nazis supported Franco, was to invade Muslim countries in Africa!”

    Which countries are these? If you mean Libya, Eritrea, and Somalia, then you’re mistaken, as all of those countries were taken over by the Italians before Mussolini became Prime Minister in 1922. Eritrea was conquered in 1882, Italy’s portion of Somalia became a protectorate during 1888 and 1889, then a full-blown possession by 1905, and Libya was taken from the Ottoman Empire by 1912. The one African country that Fascist Italy invaded was Abyssinia (Ethiopia) which was Christian!

  4. “But we are lumped together, all 6.7 billion of us, in close and intimate proximity.”

    There are more of us than that. The first news item I quote in Sustainability news from Michigan’s research universities for the week ending July 16, 2011 predicts that the world will pass 7 billion this year.

  5. Paul S

    I’d just like to point out in passing that these so-called “Christian fanatics” aren’t really Christian. Yes, they call themselves Christian, but as is plain to see–by most reasonable people–they quite clearly are NOT Christian. History is filled with sociopaths and other personality types trying to justify their barbaric actions all in the name of God. The Spanish Inquisition is an example. World War One is another. “Gott und Kaiser” the German soldiers would shout to justify their war. The sleazy fraud Pat Robertson is another example of a truly NON Christian calling himself a Man of God. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that one. Robertson wants Hugo Chavez assassinated one minute, then he offers a prayer to God. Sheesh.

  6. Echoing Paul, the bomber/shooter himself says that he is not a Christian by belief, he only supports “Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform”
    (section 3.319 of the book).

    He is basically a White Nationalist, opposing Islam as a threat to the White race. However, he identifies, and attacks, the real enemy as the Norwegian multiculturalists who enable the Muslim immigration.

    Elaine’s irrational and hysterial anti-religion diatribes are the worst aspect of her writing. Unfortunately, she engages in them far too often.

  7. melponeme_k

    Interesting.

    We hear religious diatribes continually in the public space and not a single person reacts.

    But let one atheist stand up and complain, then the diatribe becomes irrational.

  8. Times in Israel may be a changin’

    Major dissatisfaction with the Netanyahu regime has just broken out just like it did in Tunisia, Egypt and Syria with their regimes.

  9. JT

    Nobody seems to like their regime nowdays.
    The american century is coming to an end and I guess we are headed towards kondratievs winter, fascism and violence.

    And this Norwegian “knight”. I saw an interview of one of his friends.
    And I read through his manifesto.
    He was:
    a not religious at all
    b very determined, very smart and able to set long term goals and follow through with them
    c priviliged (son of a diplomat)
    d well educated
    e a classic psychopath with no empathy
    f member of right wing groups

    Ring any bells? Who are the Jihadist’s that make the succesful hits?

    He wants to create chaos and create a response from Jihadist’s, he writes about this a lot.

    Can’t you see what this is?
    It is a challenge to Jihadist’s.
    “Look you idiots. This is how you do it. Let’s see you top this. Here’s the manual.”
    And they will take the bait and so will young idiots the christian right wing also.

    He is not a religious fanatic at all.
    He is a very smart, strong willed, capable and pragmatic psychopath.

    If it was possible that manifesto should be burned, hidden and cencored it’s pure poison.
    But I’m afraid this genie is out.

  10. PFO, Paul S and others, until you actively resist the religious psychotics within your midst, and make the mainstream media take note, we who are done with the monotheistic gods will continue to lump you in with the psychotics. For if you don’t speak out against them to their face, you are complicit.

    At least Frank Schaeffer is no longer complicit.

  11. Of course this man is a Christian. Jesus told us to go around slaughtering people in the name God. And Jesus hated everyone who didn’t believe just like him. And Jesus is just waiting to destroy all you sinners. Ok?

  12. Interesting take on the Norway Massacre.

    Youtube video Norway Masacre Caused by a Schizophrenia Type God Faith Disorder Neurologists Don’t See.

    The narrator is right about one thing: if we don’t get a handle on these religious psychotics, humanity will become EXTINCT.

  13. CK

    90 people killed by a zionist supporter is not exactly a harbinger of extinction. Reverend Haggee would not even consider it a warm-up to rapture. While folks are nattering on about what exact comforting diagnosis they can hang on the shooter; would someone like to take the time to examine the mindset that allows 90 healthy young adults to allow themselves to be gunned down one at a time by this guy? So he was wearing a copper’s clothes, after the first few murders of your friends by a guy in copper’s clothes why did no one fight back? The mindset that allows these youngsters to go meekly to the slaughter is much more psychotic and maybe a stronger harbinger of racial extinction.
    And yes before someone gets all up in arms, I am asking about the victims allowing themselves to be victimized. That is not exactly the same as blaming the victims.

  14. emsnews

    Intolerance and religious bigotry is very easy to tap into and create a sudden religious firestorm. This young man is typical of such things: remember the ‘good Germans’? They VANISHED due to fear and a desire to conform when Hitler took over.

    Hitler wore the robes of Christianity and swore to a war against Orthodox Christians, Jews, atheists and anyone who didn’t swear fealty to say, the Pope. The Pope supported this.

    This is true of FRANCO of Spain who went to war to kill off atheists, chase out the Jews, etc, even as Hitler rose to power. Mussolini rose to power before both of these horrible men and what did he do?

    He tried to impose a Catholic religious state on Italy! See the pattern here?

    Religions are often complicit with fascists. This is easy to see why! We see it in Israel, turning Jews relentlessly into fascists! That is, it gives religious fanatics and believers a big, fat club to hammer others into either conformity or drive them out.

    History shows us clearly how this works. When the Christians took over Europe, this was done mainly by the sword. The ruler would suddenly convert and then FORCE everyone else to do likewise. Then, the Church would demand more and more conformity until no one dared think anything outside of this tightly sealed, irrational box.

    And all these religions then indulge in their favorite game: End of Times! Yes, the final battles where they triumph over ‘evil’ and finally purify everyone forever usually by killing everybody.

  15. CK

    And yet you still believe that religion and politics are necessary and allowable diversions. This ABB fellow appears to be a zionist, an yet a hater of the Frankfurt school of social thought which is mostly a Marxist Jewish dominated school. But he spent time in the communist party and his dad is a retired norweigian bureaucrat. He hates the influx of muslims yet claims to have been a tagger and a rapper and a white hangeron with several muslim gangs during his youth. He is now claiming that there are two/several/some more supporters just like himself out there. ( This sort of claim is known as Simon Jestering from a non-existent character in a Heinlein novel ). Two or three is believable, 20 or 30 is trash talking in a 4 million population.
    To paraphrase Diderot, Mankind will not know freedom until the last cleric is hung from the entrails of the last politician.

  16. emsnews

    On the fringes, all ideologies are nearly the same. Anarchist, religious right wingers, fascists, communists: they all end up finding the Final Solution which is to kill people. Why is this?

    Obvious! Human brains evolved this way! The solution to pressing social problems was more often solved by killing the other side in a dispute! Generally speaking, humans, once we created tools, became rather demented. We don’t act like wolves with secure social systems of all wolf communities being totally identical.

    No, we got to figure out various cultural differentials to identify each other’s tribal groups and thus, have ways (language being the #1 identity tool!) to tell tribes apart from each other.

    Papua New Guinea, for example, had over 100 languages! And cannibals, too.

  17. charlottemom

    I agree with CK

    This “anti-islam christian fanatic” story is religious extremist cover by the media for what i suspect may be Breivik’s purely political anti-isreal motivations.

    This murderer is “Christian fundamentalist”, a Norwegian nationalist who also happens to be a mason, a hardcore zionist, supporter of Israel, educated in London, son of diplomat, Daniel Pipes (!) one of his favorite “authors”
    I ask what proof do we have that he is a christian? His beliefs and associations certainly don’t appear to promote any christian ideals? But his aryan features presuppose a christian crusader. He is more a zionist crusader.

    Additionally,Norway was on the verge of recognizing Palestinian State (pretty big for a west. eur country to not lockstep with US, & EU ).
    A detail that seems to be omitted or skirted over by our “propaganda media”

    Also, the prime murder target was norway PM..I suspect that breivik was hoping for an Archduke ferdinand moment.

    Yeah, his manifesto was plagerized from Unibomber. And Elaine you point out impossible to know who put together

    Other arrests have been made….lone gunman theory not working so well.

  18. charlottemom

    big opps! didnt’ mean to write anti-isreal motivations…but quite the opposite. Breivik’s murderous actions were in response to what he perceives to be anti-zionist policies and actions by norway specifically, europe generally.

  19. CK

    You are sitting in your office cubicle, doing whatever bureaucratic stuff you draw a paycheck for doing and then a bomb explodes and you are dead. It is a shame and there is not much in hind or fore sight that you could have done to stop your death. That you died as a diversion to draw attention away from the actual target is irrelevant now.
    You are at an open air summer camp with hundreds of young adults, you have just heard the Norwegian PM speak and have held up your photo op display of solidarity with Palestine. You and your friends at camp are the scions of the current ruling elite, educated, connected, politically aware and active.
    And you allow yourselves to be killed one at a time over an almost two hour period by a guy in a Norwegian cop’s uniform and you do nothing. Really?
    Would it be the same in the USA? Would hundreds of highly educated, well connected Republican teenagers/young adults allow themselves to be murdered without lifting a finger to defend themselves?

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: In 1969, an assassin pumped out six bullets, trying to assassinate ME. I was shocked while it happened! He missed so I threw my luggage at him and he fell back into the bushes. When the police came, they were stunned to see the bullets in the door where I stood. They caught the guy and he was put in prison.

    NOW…it is easy for gun-happy people to claim they would fight back and I am a trained fighter (sword, gun, archery, you name it) yet when you are suddenly shot at, trust me, you don’t whip out a gun unless you are a drug dealer who expects this every day.

  20. @CK: A Beer Hall Putsch in Munich, Germany was not exactly an harbinger of the destruction of Europe and the extermination of 15 million people, 6 million of the Jewish.

    Here in the United States, we have a LARGE faction of the evangelical movement who feel entitled to taking over the planet, to “subdue and have dominion over the Earth” (Gen. 1:26-28). They are called Dominionists. A simple google search of would reveal to you just how big they are and just how large an influence they have in the Tea Party / GOP. And the Military Religious Freedom Foundation can show you just how much they have grown and how influential they are in our Armed Forces.

    It is these people we have to resist, not some crusader nationalist over in Europe, lest they obtain total power. I am sure that Europe will be able to curb their crusader nationalists. They’ve seen this all before over there.

    But our Dominionists, they are staunchly aligned with the Zionists! And as Elaine has said time and again, if Israel goes totalitarian, so does the United States.

  21. @CK: Most of those kids at that camp didn’t have guns! And if they did, they would only have simple revolvers or rifles. How would those be an effective defense against a crusader nationalist dressed as a police officer, armed with an Israeli-manufactured Uzi submachinegun???

    And I heard some of the vivtims did resist. And were slaughtered anyway.

  22. Norwaygirl

    I have to correct you, Ed-M. These kids at the camp were unarmed. Perhaps some had a small pocket knife for domestic use and to set up a tent. This is Norway, not the wild west. Of couse the killer knew there would be no restistance. It was pure evil slaughter .

  23. CK…if you go to Kunstlers Blog [Sunday] one Dostoyevsky
    lambastes anyone suggesting a ‘Fight Back’…he even takes on Christianity
    saying Teapartyers would have been praying for help..

    ANYONE REMEMBER THE FATE OF THE ONE PLANE THE MUSLIM TERRORIST DIDNT GET TO ITS INTENDED TARGET 9.11?

    On that island it was 600 to 1..and there must have been a few or a few dozen adults. Talk about learned helplessness……

    RE;

    ‘And yes before someone gets all up in arms, I am asking about the victims allowing themselves to be victimized. That is not exactly the same as blaming the victims.’

    The media is too busy talking about this ‘crazy, christian’ killer.
    to talk learned helplessness.

  24. This just shows me how hopeless people truly are. It will happen just this way, when they come for you and me. We will not be expecting it and they hope we have no means to fight back. But I expect it and I expect to fight back. And those of you who fear the Christian Crusades are waiting for Santa Claus to drop down your chimney, too. It is the Christians who will be slaughtered as Revelation says:
    Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus. Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.
    What? Me worry?

  25. @Norwaygirl: I know Norway is not the wild, wild west but I have read that gun ownership in Norway is actually higher than in the United States. So I assumed that some of the kids would have had guns. The right-winged Christian terrorist assumed the same thing, because he donned a police uniform. Law abiding citizens, armed or unarmed, normally do not resist police officers! The whole point I was trying to make, there was no way they could effectively resist, no matter what; it was an unwarranted slaughter and pure evil.

  26. Or I should say, the right-winged Christian terrorist could have assumed the same thing.

  27. JT

    @Ed-m

    It’s not like that at all in the Nordics.
    People have a lot of guns but nobody carries them anywhere.
    You only carry a gun when you go hunting or shooting.
    The idea of taking a gun to a youth camp is totally unthinkable for anyone here.
    Even the idea of it is so silly that I bet it is not even mentioned in any rules.

    Even the security guard (off duty police officer was unarmed).

    And the terrorist knew that.
    He was expecting to be shot by police and wanted to live to spread his message that’s why he had the body armour.
    This psycho planned everything to the last detail.

  28. Yes, I shouln’t’ve assumed any of them had guns. :blush:

    Living in the South where most people have guns, carry them and are entitled to kill someone if they claim self-defense, you kind of get used to the idea that in any country that has high rates of gun ownership, some people are going to be wearing guns! But unlike the United States, people in the other high gun-ownership societies as far as I know simply do not shoot other people for no reason, at the rate they do here!

  29. CK

    ABB probably had good cultural reasons to expect that there would be no WEAPONS available to the campers. Not having weapons is not the same as being unable to resist. Those young folks were the next generation of LEADERS of that political party. These elites-to-be allowed themselves to be exterminated.

  30. JT

    @Ed-m

    Maybe we get these childish war games out of our system because everybody has to go to the army for one year.
    You get to shoot all you want for one year and get do outdoor camping/skiing so that you don’t feel like doing any of that for a while after that.

    It’s good to get this out of your system when you’re 19-20 years old and full of dreams of being a “knight”.
    A bit of a reality check on what war and military is like.

    You are also conditioned to shoot at enemy not your countrymen and burglars. 😉
    You learn some social and leadership skills also.

    This guy of course did not serve his conscription being the honourable “knight” he was.
    (This usually means you cannot take the military disipline and that you have some mental, social or other problems).
    I might add that the extreme left wingers do not serve either.

  31. @CK: These elites-to-be allowed themselves to be exterminated. Yeah, blame the victims. Brevik’s attacks and your remark there are beyond disgusting.

  32. @JT Good point. Unfortunately in this country we have far too many extreme and childish right-wingers (who hate government) who will immediately scream “socialism!” or “fascism!” if anyone were to propose bringing back universal military service. Plus it would divert the money stream away from the military-industrial complex.

    We are so screwed here in the United States. 😦

  33. JT

    @Ed-m

    We are all screwed.

    “Ethnic Serbs have attacked and set fire to a security post on Kosovo’s northern border with Serbia.”
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14316858

    I have an eery feeling these are the same Serbs Breivik mentions.

  34. @JT I expected something like that would happen. After Kosovo won independence from Serbia due to cleansing of Kosovars by the Serbs, the Kosovars decided that they were going to cleanse Kosovo of the Serbs!

  35. CK

    @Shocku: “It will happen just this way, when they come for you and me.”
    They is plural while I is singular as is you. There was no THEY in the norway killing spree. Just one faux cop doing his killing retail, not wholesale.
    When the state with its armed minions and thugs comes for a person or a small group, it is never a “fair” engagement. When the witch burners come or the night riders or the kkk or the DEA or the FBI, they always come in quantity against the few, the powerless, the disenfranchised, the low hanging easy fruit. The young adults that were murdered were not a few, not disenfranchised, not powerless.
    @ED-M:
    If you do not like reality, you may ignore it. No one has the pleasure of ignoring the effects of ignoring reality. The young adults at that summer labour party camp were the sons and daughters of the Norwegeian political elite. The did nothing to protect themselves or to fight back against ABB for the 2 hours plus that he spent killing them one at a time. What term would you prefer to apply to that behaviour? The only action they took was to allow themselves to be killed. Attempting to understand why an empowered, elite, young, healthy group of men and women allowed this to be done to them by a solitary individual no matter how well armed that thug might have been is not, as you would have it, “blaming the victim”. If I can understand why they allowed themselves to be murdered, maybe I can vaccinate some young folks so they are immune to “learned helplessness.”
    Or is your disgust aimed more at the idea of fighting back.
    @90404: The popular fiction is that the passengers responded to “Let’s Roll” and crashed the plane by some magic. The plebian reality is that it was most probably shot down by a USAF fighter after the flight path to target had been identified. The fantasy was necessary to compartmentalize the anger that was brewing against the government immediately after 9/11. The colossal ineptitude that was displayed in allowing the attacks was faced with huge cognitive dissonance at the quickness with which the US could positively tell the populace who the hijackers were and even recover at least one of their passports from the sidewalks of lower manhattan. Try to imagine the cognitive dissonance increase if the US had had to announce that its airforce finally after more than three hours of diddling finally shot down one of the planes. Much better to announce that the passengers had taken out their hijackers and in doing so doomed themselves to mass sepuku. The anger at the government ineptitude has never been fully quelled, but after the anthrax attacks on congress and several newspapers, the voices were diffused and finally muffled.

  36. @CK: Unlike the United States, Norway is a CIVILISED country. No-one had any expectation that a gunman armed with an ISRAELI made Uzi and dressed as a Law Enforcement Officer would show up on that island and start gunning down people. How are lightly-dressed or nealry naked youths supposed to be able to resist against a totally unexpected attack by a heavilly armed gunman pretending to be a po-lice? This sort of attack obviously did not take place in Norway for a long, long time, perhaps not since the Nazi occupation. And how do you know that none of them attempted to resist the nazi thug despite overwhelming odds? We do know some of them called for help on their cell phones. My assumption is, they did whatever they could.

  37. emsnews

    I happen to have once tackled an armed robber in NYC. He was not shooting at me, he thought I was just some lady sweeping her brownstone steps when he ran past but I nailed him with the broom and then we struggled over ownership of the gun which was kicked under a parked car. I decided to render him as inoperative as possible and he wanted that gun very badly.

    Luckily, the police came running after him and took him off my hands before I had to decide what to do with the creep.

    LOOK: in NYC I made a number of civilian arrests only because I grew up on a ranch and was used to going after poisonous animals and fighting off wild things, dealing with strangers attacking me since I lived in the middle of nowhere.

    So I have ‘hair trigger’ reactions to ANYTHING. Most people don’t live like this but soldiers do and this causes them to OVERREACT which we see all the time…they can’t stop fighting!

    Fighting is DANGEROUS and most people RUN AWAY when there is one sided fighting. Only a few people would be able to stalk and take down a heavily armed killer. It is EXTREMELY hard and EXTREMELY dangerous to do this, trust me.

    One of my favorite weapons was a simple sling shot, by the way. It has quite a reach, if you practice a lot, you can nail coyotes and mountain lions, even. This stops them from approaching.

    On the other hand, taking down humans is harder to do, trust me on this. Yes, having a gun, while crouching behind a wall while yelling, ‘You are under arrest’ can also work but you have to be VERY commanding when you say that. This, too, requires practice.

    By the way, it never ceases to amuse me how criminals always freeze when they hear this phrase! They always hesitate and look around with fear.

  38. CK

    What does the civility or incivility of an abstraction have to do with whether you fight back when someone is killing you or not? What the hell do your expectations matter when reality gobsmacks you and you have to do something or die. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition is a fine comedy skit; it should not be substituted for an explanation for the failure to act.

  39. CK

    @EMS: 6 shots in two seconds, yes a person can freeze and not react for that period of time. A 2 hour freeze? You would have frozen in your doorway for 2 hours and let your would be assassin keep shooting? Woman please even you don’t believe that shite.

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