Televangelists Sued Over Rich Life Styles

The easiest way to get rich is to con people into believing something really ridiculous and then keep them captive to this belief system and tell them all other people are evil and the money will flow in effortlessly.  People love to believe stuff.  We are hard wired to believe we are good and others are evil.  This duality belief system is easy to exploit and we see this in politics, for example, with the ‘good versus evil’ game played by nearly everyone.  The best scams of all are religious con games because they are not taxed.  This is why L. Ron Hubbard created his ‘religon’: to evade taxes.  Modern hedge funds and bankers do this via bribing Congress.

 

Various tax evasion/fleecing of the credulous schemes in the news this week are interesting since it shows that shining the light of financial examination on these scams ends them pretty quickly.  These con games focus on brain damaged people:  Being ‘Born-Again’ Linked to More Brain Atrophy: Study

 

As people age, a certain amount of brain atrophy is expected. Shrinkage of the hippocampus is also associated with depression, dementia and Alzheimer’s disease.

 

In the study, researchers asked 268 people aged 58 to 84 about their religious affiliation, spiritual practices and life-changing religious experiences. Over the course of two to eight years, changes to the hippocampus were monitored using MRI scans.

 

The researchers suggested that stress over holding religious beliefs that fall outside of the mainstream may help explain the findings.

 

The last line is pure speculation.  I believe, from personal experience, that when someone is going into early Alzheimer’s Disease like my poor mother, they do two things: deny anything is wrong and become fanatically religious including getting rid of family members who are not religious nuts.  These sorts of people…and I have seen this more than once in my life…are prime hunting grounds for an army of cynical and vicious con artists who simply want the loot.

 

They know which sales pitches work best and use modern broadcasting technology to fish for people with brain damage and then coax as much money as possible out of them.  Since brain damaged people tend to be socially isolated or scared, it is particularly easy to prey off of them.  Just as online scam artists prey off of people wishing for riches with various fake lottery/money exchange schemes, the religious wolves hunting for injured deer to devour seek people who dream of getting rich.

 

Down south, in particular, is a number of right wing Republican-protected scams doing exactly that.  The latest one to go into turmoil this week is the TBN: Televangelists feuded over millions, motor home for dogs – latimes.com

 

The Trinity Broadcasting Network, the Orange County-based televangelist ministry that bills itself as the world’s largest Christian network, is embroiled in a legal battle involving allegations of massive financial fraud and lavish spending, including the purchase of a $100,000 motor home for family dogs.

 

Brittany Koper, a former high-ranking TBN official and the granddaughter of its co-founder, Paul Crouch Sr., was fired by the network in September after discovering “illegal financial schemes” amounting to tens of millions of dollars, according to a lawsuit filed last month in Orange County Superior Court.

 

The properties include mansions used by the Crouch family in Newport Beach, side-by-side mansions in Windermere, Florida., and homes in Nashville, Miami, and Irving, Texas, the suit claims.

 

TBN directors received $300,000 to $500,000 in meal expenses and the use of chauffers, and oversaw “fraudulent donation and kickback schemes involving third party ‘ministries’ ” the network controlled, the suit claims.

 

The directors also misused funds to cover up sexual scandals, the suit claims.

There is a host of big and small ministries which preach the doctrine, ‘If you give us a lot of money, Jesus will give you even more in return and you will win the lottery!’ sort of story.  This ‘If you make us rich, Jesus will make you rich’ vein is pure gold for con artists. Casinos rake in billions peddling the identical frauds to credulous gamblers so it is no surprise that the headquarters of the Christian broadcasting con men look like a Las Vegas casino:

File:TCC-TBN.jpg – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The founders and hosts of the network look like they are in Vegas, too.  The man looks like he runs the blackjack table and the wife looks like she does bed work upstairs for tips:

What is paradoxical about all of this is, Las Vegas is Sin City and is all about wild sex, wild parties and wild spending.  And the lifestyles of these fake Christians is identical to vacationing in Vegas.  Meanwhile, they rake in the dough attacking gays, women using birth control and other ‘sin’ issues!  The Whore of Babylon appears daily on the Christian Broadcasts and they worship her.

 

Another abusive rip off cult is in the news this year over and over again because it, too, is falling apart as it breaks laws, enslaves believers and viciously attacks anyone…INCLUDING ME…for talking about it.  I have a great bone to pick with them since Hubbard did things to my father back during WWII and he hated me and I hated him and we had a fun encounter many, many years ago (he wanted to hypnotize me and instead, I drilled into his brain and made him regret it greatly).  David Miscavige once tried to have his private investigator pay me a visit and we scared him enough, he retreated (showing our gun helped the process).

 

Well, as more and more people manage to flee the Madame Mao/Khmer Rouge camps run by the chief, Miscavige (we call him ‘Miscarriage’) the truth of these noxious places are finally appearing online even though the media is still incapable of covering the news about these open prison camps:  Scientology’s Shocking Treatment of Children Held in a Suburban Labor Camp – New York News – Runnin’ Scared.  This news is from Australia where there is a move to outlaw this criminal operation due to using child labor as slave labor.

 

This winter, we saw the story about allegations that Miscarriage and his gang are robbing the organization:  Scientology Rocked By Allegations of Greed in E-mail to 12,000 Church Members – New York News – Runnin’ Scared

 

A woman named Debbie Cook dropped something of an atom bomb on the membership of the Church of Scientology last night, and as of this minute — about noon on New Year’s Day — her Facebook page is still going a bit crazy as her fellow church members deal with the fallout.

 

Cook was once a very high ranking executive in Scientology’s Sea Org. She led the Flag Service Organization in Clearwater, Florida, which made her one of the most important executives at the spiritual headquarters of the worldwide organization. Several years ago, she left that position and the Sea Org, but she is still a member of the church in good standing.

 

That will probably change after the e-mail she sent out, reportedly to 12,000 members of her religion, which condemns church leader David Miscavige for turning Scientology into little more than a money-hungry fundraising machine.

 

She has now appeared in court in Texas (many of these schemes operate out of Texas due to legal loopholes and the blanket ‘get home free’ card these religions enjoy there) about these various abuses of money and power.  Remember: the ONLY reason the churches, etc., get tax-exempt status is because they do works of charity, not so that a bunch of crooks can live a Las Vegas life.

 

Here is a book written by one of the first guys working for Hubbard’s scam:  Counterfeit Dreams: Chapter Twelve: Over the Rainbow

 

The first action when “Black PR” was reported was to bring the person in for a “Rollback” interview. The person was questioned as to where they had heard this critical datum. If they had not heard it from anyone else, then they were the originator of it, so it was to one’s advantage to name someone else as the originator.

 

Once the “Black PR” has been found, the person is given “Security Checking” on an E-Meter in order to unearth the “crimes” which had inspired this calumny. The Sec Checker keeps at it, hour after hour, getting the person to confess to crime after crime until they recant and publicly retract the “Black PR.” This was the “end phenomenon” – a “viewpoint shift.”..

 

…It seemed to me, after I had been at the Base for a while, that for every person who was actually doing something, there were legions of Programs Ops, Inspectors, officious martinets and executives of various echelons, all demanding something from the staff member and threatening dire consequences if not “complied to.” It was, in a word, top-heavy to the max. And it was all aimed at making staff “compliant.”

 

All of which led to a sort of arrogant elitism, a Base-wide, rigid caste system that was defined by who had to call who “Sir.” RTC looked down on CMO International, CMO Int looked down on Exec Strata. And at the bottom of the heap was Golden Era Productions, looked down on by everyone.

 

This book was written by the guy who made those dumb ‘exploding volcano’ commercials that littered the early cable TV years.  He was slowly ground down to total poverty and personal physical abuse by Miscarriage himself.  The little punk even got away with punching and slapping his public relations guy!  And the poor man would hang his head and cry for mercy!  I would have knocked the guy out!

 

Slowly, the new ruler of these poor chumps emptied out all rivals and cleared out most employees to the point, the entire business began to collapse!  HAHAHA…the demonic powers tapped by this black magic operation that went totally for the worship of money and power has ended up, like any evil dictatorship, devouring itself and attacking its own followers.

 

This process of attacking one’s own followers isn’t just Scientologists going insane (they get into the operation by being brain damaged to some degree in the first place)…this is how all religions operate.  They grow quickly and then turn on each other and get involved in very nasty internal wars over virtually nothing.  The Sunni/Shia rift or the Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox splits are typical, not unusual at all.

 

This is epidemic with religions because even if everyone strives to be equally correct, they can never, ever achieve this because there will always be some tiny, insignificant point where there is disagreement and this quickly rises to murderous rage.  Even if pure perfection of identically insane thinking is won via battle and vicious abuse, the winners suspect all the losers (the sane people who hide from the winners by pretending to agree) and so they abuse the sane even worse, hoping they will say the wrong thing and then bang: they can be killed!

 

The communist religion, like many political religions, went very heavily into this and fascism is all about who is more perfect than the other and the actions of the Khmer Rouge is similar to the early Christian Church or the Scientologists and all of these have the same group-abuse/hero worship/intolerance matrix.  We see this with right wing broadcasting, we see this in race relations, we see this all over the place: we are not supposed to think carefully, we are supposed to have knee-jerk reactions.

 

Another feature of religious and political fanaticism is how it is used to give money to family members so…Ron Paul tops list of House members whose campaigns paid families $3.1 million | The Raw Story.  I figured this was going on.  It doesn’t surprise me.  The use of money given to run for office or spread ideology is re-channeled into giving it to family members for ‘work’.  This is called ‘nepotism’.  Churches do this all the time, too.

 

Here is the actual report and both the GOP and the DNC do this:  http://www.citizensforethics.org/page/-/PDFs/Reports/Family_Affair_House_2012_CREW.pdf?nocdn=1.  The problem with Ron Paul is, he is supposed to be a reformer, not a ‘business as usual’ person.  His relations should be VOLUNTEERING their time to the cause, not milking it for loot.  Many good people volunteer for Ron Paul and give generously.  But not his own family???

 

Sad, isn’t it?  And the Ron Paul supporters won’t go after him for this blatant abuse of their time and funds.  Miscavige is far worse than Ron Paul, of course.  His wife, Shelly, vanished one day and no one has seen her since nor has there been any investigation of what happened to her.  Ron Paul’s corruption is far less than the religious leaders in today’s story but it still has the same problem: temptation leads to greed and then to rewarding family and lovers and not doing the good deeds supposedly being proposed.

 

This is sad but not unusual.  It is epidemic to all religions and deep in politics, left or right.

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45 Comments

Filed under .money matters, religion

45 responses to “Televangelists Sued Over Rich Life Styles

  1. JT

    Oh, Elaine…
    Don’t you know that god kill’s everyone who is against TBN.

    kisses….

    That is a weird deuchebaggy, mafiathreatty, oldfarty, stockmarkety, newsroomy video btw…

    That video gave me the creeps.

  2. Joseppi

    “All of science is uncertain and subject to revision. The glory of science is to imagine more than we can prove. The fringe is the unexplored territory where truth and fantasy are not yet disentangled….”

    Here is a grand example of entangling religious myth and science…..

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9162459/Mystery-solved-Turin-Shroud-linked-to-Resurrection-of-Christ.html

  3. Peter

    Does the church lady knows there’s some sort of hairy wolverine-type creature latched onto her head??

  4. JT

    @peter

    The holy spririt is pulling her wig up to heaven?

  5. DeVaul

    I cannot believe this crap is still going on. I thought it died out after all the scandals involving that guy who was caught with a prostitute or something and which the “Church Lady” on Saturday Night Live lampooned hilariously. That was over 20 years ago!

    Perhaps it is true. Perhaps the people who give money to these creeps really are brain-damaged. It seems there is no scandal too outrageous to open their eyes to the truth about these con artists.

    I am not surprised to hear about the Ron Paul Charitable Trust Fund. All those millions of dollars that pour into his coffers has to go somewhere. Driving up to a gunshop in Los Vegas and shaking hands for 10 minutes before leaving cannot account for all that money donated to him.

    I always suspected he was simply trying to promote his own family in hopes of raising it to the aristocracy. As an old man, he has nothing to lose by challenging the system vigorously, but that would not help his son or family.

    He will not be remembered for anything, nor will his son.

  6. charlottemom

    Crouch family with Jay Sokulow (Jews for Jesus fame) founded Trinity. Also Trinity Broadcasting’s Jesus theme park was created and financed with Rosenthal (formerly jewish now baptist minister).

    Neoconservative christian fundamentalist love Israel at all costs — is it merely religious or perhaps there is a financial reading to their embrace of Israel that is shared by many of their investors’ love of Israel. (Of course, even the evangelistic thing about converting jews has been worked around, note Hagee’s Dual or Abrahamic covenant – brillant!)

    We already know these televangelists are greedy fraudsters and have unspoken private $$ agendas. They are so corrupt!

    Thanks for this posting!

    .

  7. charlottemom

    Opps..Correction Crouch Jr. and Sokulow founded Sonlight broadcasting not Trinity broadcasting….

  8. JT

    24-Hour Prayer Line: (714) 731-1000
    http://www.tbn.org/contact/

    Got to have that.

    Is there anyone in the US you can vote for who is openly a goddless heathen?

  9. JT

    Thank God, for heathens, sodomites and infidels.

  10. Vengeur

    Gee it’s fun making fun of these religious-right nuts and their Televaneglist Poobahs. We are sooooo superior to them!

  11. JT

    @vengeur

    I don’t think that’s the point.
    These guys belong in jail.
    Ponzi shcemes are illegal, the ones where they promise wealth in this life.

    Maybe we cannot do much yet about the ones promising wealth in the next life. That’s why those ponzis seem to go on almost forever.

  12. melponeme_k

    A great many of those who found god are former drug addicts and alcoholics. If there is brain damage it was all self inflicted.

    But people do come back from that mania. There are people who wake up from the dream and realize they are being used by evangelists.

    I don’t want to write off the religious masses. I have to believe some of them can come back, stronger and willing to face the universe as true adults.

  13. JT

    Religion is a hell of a drug!

  14. emsnews

    Facing the universe? They are running away from it, from death, from doom. Only they run straight into the mouth of the Dragon which wishes to enslave, defraud and destroy.

    The fact is, if we open our eyes and face reality straight on, we get to live free lives and this is hard, not easy. You don’t get rich. You don’t win anything except self-respect and the joy of seeing Mother Nature in Her Entire Being.

  15. Joseppi

    Since this country is divided between Faith-based cults and the reality-based community, and each of these can be subdivided into self serving fractions of various theology and ideology, this country is a big mess and getting more messy each day as we head towards the day of national theater know as the election.

  16. emsnews

    NO ONE has ANY solutions to the real problems so of course, they focus on the usual: sex, hatreds, hysteria and belly buttons. :(

  17. JT

    So this is how US rolls.
    I’ve often wondered how it’s done.

    First you open people’s minds with a little prayer group.
    And after that bring in the salespeople.

    As BS goes this guy is far more convincing.
    And scary.

  18. Paul S

    There’s a couple of other names that deserve to be added to the “honor” roll of religious and/or right wing swindlers: R. Alan Stanford, the gold swindler and Sean Hannity’s close personal friend (Sean did the voice-overs for Stanfords ad). Then there’s the investment genius and former baseball player, Lenny Dykstra–who is now bankrupt and under investigation. There is, I believe another right wing gold scam out there that was ripping off their customers besides Stanford. I believe it was called GoldLine. Glenn Beck had a close relationship with them. Also: let’s not forget about the sleaziest right wing religious fraudster of them all, imho: Pat Robertson. The good reverend lost his tax-exempt status because he was giving his contributor names to right wing politicos who in turn would grub for campaign contributions. The list could go on because the true believers have a hard time shaking their faith in these hucksters. Oh yes, one more thing. One of the biggest churches on the TV had to declare bankruptcy. They even had to sell their palatial church(!). Seems ALOT of money is missing…

  19. We shouldn’t quite divide things into the religious, and the “reality-based community”. A lot of modern quantum physics reads like Taoist religion/philosophy, except with much more ugly mathematics. There are plenty of self-serving people who manipulate the religious impulse of others, sure; but I like the impulse itself. The core of it may be a sense that there’s more to ‘reality’ than what we perceive. Quantum physics certainly validates that much.

  20. What ever happened to ‘Rev’ Ike?

  21. JT

    My only reverend on the internet is this guy.

    Live, love, swim in the swamp if you feel like it, embrace your fetishes….

    RUBENS OF THE NORTH

  22. CK, does secularism have anything better to offer them? That’s the question that bothers me.

  23. floridasandy

    where’s your reverend wright video?

    how about something on the atheist crook, madalyn o’hair, and her sad ending?

    there are crooks in every walk of life.

    on ron paul, he paid 6 people an average of 50,000 each (no doubt, including overtime)-big whoop.

    why not hire your relatives because they would probably work harder and work more hours than a stranger for your benefit? i think what people object to is the excessive salaries like alcee hastings paying his girlfriend $622,574. (of course, she might have had to work real hard for that money)

  24. DeVaul

    When I attended high school in Eastern KY, many of the teachers were relatives of the principal or the superintendant. They did not do a good job of teaching and many were totally unqualified. Their qualifications for the job were that they were related to someone. That was it. Some could barely read or write.

    They did feel a very strong sense of entitlement, as in “they deserved the job” because so-in-so was their relative and they had supported them in the last election or appointment process. There is rarely any excuse for nepotism unless it is a private family business, but relatives of politicians or public employees always feel they are entitled to a job from their relative.

    Nepotism became such a huge problem here in Kentucky that the merit system was introduced to try and stop it. The merit system is based on who is qualified to do a job and not who is related to who. Everyone tried hard to get around it, of course, but at least we tried. Now it is a scandal to be exposed engaging in nepotism instead of a sign of greatness.

    Perhaps I should look at it a different way. Perhaps Kentucky is no longer the cradle of nepotism. Perhaps Texas is now the leading contender.

  25. JT

    Doug Coe.
    Not so funny is it.

  26. Paul S

    @floridasandy: Thanks for giving us the Fox/Limbaugh talking points. It’s a complete waste of my time to get them myself. Anywho, it’s really hard to follow your “logic”; you try to excuse right wing corruption by saying that others do it too. Is that supposed to be some kind of justification for right wing fraud and corruption? That since other, non-Republicans can be corrupt and/or criminal it’s OK? Your argument is befitting a spoiled rotten 10 year old. Congratulations on that; the folks running Fox have a good belly laugh–at YOUR expense. Go ahead; keep playing the fool. BTW: Alcee Hastings WAS impeached; it’s not like he got away with anything. Madalyn Ohair a crook? What did she do? Enlighten us on this. You call her a crook. Didn’t the folks at Fox or Limbaugh give you details? Do you even need any?

  27. DeVaul

    I don’t even bother to argue with floridasandy anymore, as hypocrisy, double standards, and two-faced logic are not things you can argue with. I don’t know if she really believes the things she says or just does it to incite people, but there is no point in trying to engage in debate with her.

    I looked up Madalyn O’Hair on Wikipedia to see what crime she committed. She and her family were kidnapped and gruesomely murdered, so according to two-faced logic, that means they were criminals. Here is how the local police in Texas dealt with the matter from Wikipedia:

    “There was some criticism of the Austin Police Department’s apparent apathy about the disappearance. Austin reporter Robert Bryce wrote:

    “Despite pleas from O’Hair’s son, William J. Murray, several briefings from federal agents, and solid leads developed by members of the press, the Austin Police Department (APD) sat on the sidelines of the O’Hair investigation…Meanwhile, investigators from the Internal Revenue Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and the Dallas County Sheriff’s Office are working together on the case….a federal agent was asked to discuss APD’s actions in the O’Hair case. His only response was to roll his eyes in amazement.”[21]”

    This is why individual states cannot be truly soveriegn in the US. They have no intention of enforcing the US constitution or the Bill of Rights.

  28. CK

    @Steve:
    Secularism is good for some individuals, other individuals find it unfulfilling.
    Them as profit with it should indulge in it; them as needs something other should find their “other.”

  29. CK

    Teaching children is so much the same as running for president.Your stolen tax monies paid for the nepotistic kentucky schools. Not a penny of your money is going to Dr. Paul.
    I am sure that when EMS runs for some office, she and we will expect her offspring and family to quit their jobs and volunteer without recompense to get her elected no matter how many months it takes.
    The Bill of Rights are restrictions on the central government not on the states.
    The Constitution is for the central government; each state has its very own constitution each with their own individual idiosyncracies. The states should have no intention of enforcing the US constitution because it is NOT THEIR JOB. The people should do the enforcing of the bill of rights since the bill of rights is for them.

  30. Paul S

    @DeVaul: your points are well taken. I kind of suspect ‘florida’ to be a “flamer”, so it is an excercise in futility to counter her statements. I used to be a brainwashed right wing Republican myself. I know how the mindset works. Trying to de-program the gullible sheeple on the Right is sort of a personal “hobby” of mine.

  31. DeVaul

    “The states should have no intention of enforcing the US constitution because it is NOT THEIR JOB.”

    Uhh… no state is allowed to be a state unless its constitution matches the U.S. Constitution word for word or goes beyond it in providing rights to its citizens. It cannot provide less. Any state that does not recognize or refuses to enforce the rights embodied in the U.S. Constitution, which should be included in their own, is in open rebellion against the Federal government and the president is allowed to call out Federal troops to put down that rebellion.

    You are not a constitutional law expert.

  32. rps

    The Non-Profiteers Organizations, also as the Good Samaritan’s Tax Dodging Clubs are the beneficiaries of the public’s purse in the sense that they do not pay taxes toward the good of the community. Today, Non-Profits are umbrellaed with special tax exemptions that range from county, city, municipal, state and federal perks. This designation burdens ordinary citizens with higher property taxation, and denies our lawful right to refuse tax support of non-profit organizations. They are the beneficiaries of tax free status without indicative responsibilities to the community. NPO’s, are liabilities that drain the community’s piggy bank as citizens are forced to pick up the tab in higher property taxes, city, state, and federal taxes to cover these non-profiteers exemptions. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and we pickup the tab to cover their “exemptions.”

    NPO’s bounty of government privileges, blessings of property tax evasion, non-taxed private money donations, and endowments are untouched by the Internal Revenue Service. To add insult to injury, the contributors of donations and endowments are also generously patted on the back with tax write-offs.

    The magnanimous tax subsidies are directly funneled to perpetuate a set of NPO theologies and ideologies which are not in the general public’s best interest, or beneficial to the community. They serve a narrow parameter of citizenry under the guise of a “charitable” organizations. Abolish Non-profit organizations tax exemptions.

  33. Aren’t Tony Blair and the Clintons heavily involved in NPOs as well?

  34. floridasandy

    paul s,

    we have a whole internet you can research o’hair and the misappropriation of money so i don’t need to get into it here.

    once again, not seeing the forest for the trees-the point is that there are crooks in ALL walks of life-crooks in all sides of the religion/non-religion issue.

    i would suggest that somebody is gullible, but you won’t wake up until the country has turned into a banana republic-and it won’t be long, with 20 trillion in spending in the past 3 years—– although some people seem to more concerned about ron paul paying approximately 50K of donated funds to a few family members. (and reporting it)

    who doesn’t really see that the 20 trillion is the bigger problem, but let’s not talk about that issue, or the wars, or the crooks getting away with crime, or our liberties being taken away…..

    .

  35. JT

    @christian w

    That national prayer group stuff was really scary.
    I had never heard of that before.

    Based on what I read that Doug Coe stuff is where military is involved too.

    “Doug Coe, the longtime National Prayer Breakfast organizer, is a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship to God.”
    - Hillary Clinton -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)

  36. JT

    I’ve been under the impression all my life that US politicians are totally secular and they do that pray stuff just to get votes.

    If they really belong to a cult?
    That is worrying.

    What is it with the rich and powerful?
    They start believing in their own immortality and special powers.
    And this egotrip makes them join freemasons, rotary clubs, cults and groups?
    - sigh -

    Humanity really should start getting over this religion stuff fast.
    They are beatiful customs and culture but that’s it.

  37. DeVaul

    “we have a whole internet you can research o’hair and the misappropriation of money so i don’t need to get into it here”

    Hahahahahah!

    You see, Paul S., the information is “out there”, but you and I must find it, not sandy. She only needs to throw out a blanket accusation — the details, the links to information, the evidence, the proof — none of that is her responsibility. It is ours and ours alone. Her statement is proof enough.

    This is how nazis, commissars, witch hunters, dictators, all operate. They don’t need no f******n proof. Their word alone is enough.

    We will not have a banana republic. We will have a police state. Why? Because that is what we already have. Right NOW. Not tommorow, but right NOW. The executive orders and statutes have all been passed and signed into law these past 10 years. The TSA is just a small beginning of a much larger organization of gestapo agents who will spread out over the country and accuse people of this or that and then throw them in jail. No proof or evidence necessary.

    Once in jail or under house arrest, the prisoner must then disprove the accusations made against him — while sitting in a jail and being tortured or in their home and being harrassed. This is what already happens to a Deaf person who dares to go to court to fight for his rights, but it will eventually happen to everyone.

    There are not enough people at the bottom of the societal ladder to satisfy the gestapo agents, so it MUST move up the ladder. It always does.

  38. Paul S

    @DeVaul: I think ‘sandy’ does exactly as I used to do: I heard it on Fox, so it IS true–no questions asked. Imho, this is an important point because for propaganda to work, it must be accepted without question. Why? Because once you start questioning the “authoritative” source of information, there’s no telling where it will end up. The propagandist KNOWS they are lying; this is why the right wing spends soooo much time smearing other media sources (think: liberal ‘elites’). Once a former Foxoid (like myself) starts digging into other sources of information, the propagandists’ house of cards comes tumbling down quite quickly. (I will let my postings here testify to how far I have “transitioned” from a true blue, right wing, Limbaugh listening Republican). ‘Floridasandy’ does the same thing I did. She doesn’t have facts, she has talking points she heard on Fox which she accepts without question. I know what ‘floridasandy’–and her kind are thinking before they even think it. Been there, done that, I’m ashamed and embarassed to say.

  39. DeVaul

    Well, I am glad you did say. It helps me to understand why someone like her would read Elaine’s articles and then just spit out things which, if you think about it for awhile, really don’t make any sense.

    You are not alone in being fooled. I was surrounded by “conservatives” in the small town in E. KY where I went to high school. It was easy to believe things your friends were telling you until you saw or heard something different, which for me, did not occur until I went to college. I then began a long journey away from standard propaganda. I was lucky to be studying German and linguistics and to have a mentor who encouraged me to read Noam Chomsky. What an eye-opener that was!

    The left (if it is the “left”) in Europe does the same thing. At Marburg, I was banned from all groups (they only had political groups there). The communists called me a “right-wing reactionary”. The nazis called me a “communist pinko”. The Lutherans (a religion?) called me a “devil worshiper”. The Arabs called me an “infidel (sp?)”. The Persians hated me just because I befriended a man they had blackballed from their group.

    Despite all this, I still made friends, but they did not belong to any “groups”.

  40. floridasandy

    there are very few people who are truly left or truly right anymore, and most people fall somewhere in the middle on many different issues.

    these attacks on ron paul are beyond stupid in my opinion because it clearly takes the focus off the ONLY candidate who would protect our freedom: (from of two minds)

    The only presidential candidate who has vowed to axe the NDAA provisions is Ron Paul. If you support any other candidate, ask why they are supporting the gutting of the Bill of Rights under the Orwellian umbrella of GWOT (global war on terror).

    so continue to look for a tree and miss the entire forest.

  41. floridasandy

    a good read (for those willing to take the time) to put this all in perspective:

    http://www.oftwominds.com/blog.html

  42. floridasandy

    one other thing, depaul

    i am not taking away any american freedom from anybody-and there’s the difference.

  43. What is an “american freedom”? The problem with talking from within the established political discourse (ie propaganda spin) is that almost all terms are framed and value loaded to dilute them.

  44. CK

    @DeVaul:
    You are wrong about the state constitutions. They do not need to mimic the Federal ( word for word ). Unicameral legislature states exist as just one example ( Nebraska is a state.).Some states do go beyond the US Constitution in some areas. As I said, it is NOT the job of the separate states to enforce the Federal constitution. Any state may nullify any law it sees fit ( example would be the federal prohibition against medical marijuana ).
    To reiterate: You are wrong … again.

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