All Humans Are Irrational Believers Of Something Or Another

One subject that fascinates me endlessly is the confusion over ‘beliefs’ versus ‘rational thinking.’  Everyone has belief systems.  Each one has his or her own individual belief matrix which is how we define and visualize the Real World.  No one actually sees and understands this Real World at all since our human cognitive minds interfere tremendously with our ability to perceive things directly.  That is, our big, fat brains create our own realities all the time.  We are hopelessly mired in our belief systems.

 

 

What brings this up today is a story about how some scientists believe that thinking rationally leads to less religious thinking:  A look at the kind of thinking that determines how religious we are is interesting only in the charming idea that one can measure this thing with some sort of device or rather, by testing people and scoring them in some way.

 

A look at the kind of thinking that determines how religious we are  The psychology report, published today in the prestigious journal Science, reveals that religious belief drops after subjects perform analytical tasks or are exposed to Rodin’s sculpture The Thinker.

 

However, UBC social psychologists Will Gervais and Ara Norenzayan insist they are not debunking religion or promoting atheism. Instead, they are trying to figure out the psycho-logical origins of spirituality.

 

 

HAHAHA.  Funny how these psychologists propose a conclusion but fear of being persecuted by howler monkeys who have faith in something causes them to retract everything they claim!  It is like claiming the earth goes around the sun but that shouldn’t be taken at face value since many want the earth to be the center of the universe.

 

Actually, everyone is deluded all the time.  This concept is harsh for humans to accept but it is the Real Reality.  The problem for us humans is, we know too much.  Animals live in the hear and now and they have pre-programmed lives set in their genetic material that tells them when and how to do things.

 

Successful animals and plants pass on these instructions in the genetic material to their progeny who then do the same thing with of course, the help of response systems set to react to various events that happen such as predators showing up or avoiding poisoned sources of food, etc.  An inability to conform to incoming data leads to not having progeny so we see the results of successful lives lived in the proper genetic-based reaction/propagation systems.

 

In other words, the fit survive and thrive unless the environment suddenly changes.  Then, random chance and mutations suddenly are the survival elements that work.  Back to this rather silly story:

 

The UBC pair began their innovative project by measuring the “pre-experiment” religious convictions of subjects. They asked people to rate on a scale how much their beliefs in such things as God or angels were important to them. Then the subjects were primed to think analytically. They per-formed mathematical computations, answered questions posed in “hard-to-read fonts” and were shown a photo of Rodin’s sculpture of a man in a reflective position.

 

Although subjects’ levels of commitment to their religious beliefs generally went down after the analytical part of their minds kicked into gear, Gervais said that doesn’t prove religion is irrational.

 

HAHAHA…watching these poor, ‘rational’ scientists backtrack swiftly is fun, isn’t it?  They dare not say that religions are irrational because this would expose them to serious debates.  Religions are not about rational or irrational.  They are DEFENSE MECHANISMS.  Universally, humans need a belief system, a matrix of the mind, a series of boxes and puppets set up to KEEP OUT REALITY.

 

Keeping out reality is life an death for humans whereas in all other living creatures, it is the opposite.  Why is this?

 

Well, blame our brains.  Animals dream at night.  Humans dream a great deal.  What is different is, the animals forget their dreams and most humans SEEM to forget but in reality, our brains remember the dreams.  I remember all my dreams.  When I wake up, I have to sort through them so they don’t leak into my waking life and screw up things.

 

The Dream World is intensely attractive to our minds and we spend at least a quarter of our lives living there and not living in the Reality World that plants and animals inhabit.  And worse, our dreams haunt us.  All religions as well as all creative artistic work come out of the Dream World.  This emphatically includes scientists.  If one reads about how many scientists discover their most creative ideas, these are usually expressed first as dreams rather than as hard-dint effort in a lab or at a desk.

 

Indeed, all the scientists I have ever known and I know a huge number, have said their best thinking is done when they are doing something else the frees up the cognitive part of the mind so that we don’t actively interfere with it.  That is, while dreaming or playing music or weeding the garden or fishing…what matters is, letting the rational part of the mind alone so it can do its thing without emotional hysteria.

 

People who think religion is real, on the other hand, are surrendering to the Dream World.  This is done for one very obvious reason: we are literally scared to death.  When I have debated the systems that operate in our universe with astronomers, I encounter this very fear which prevents the acolytes who get degrees after agreeing with their teachers, from examining it coldly and analytically.

 

That is, they are prey to fears of death.  Dying eventually by being crushed by a massive influx to some unknown devouring black hold gravitational pool scares the hell out of people.  It leads to despair!  Infinity anything is preferred to total nothingness.  The words hang heavy on the page.  Infinity means free forever whereas nothingness means oppression, suppression and annihilation.

 

Naturally, being living things, we want eternal life, forever happiness and everything our own way whereas the last thing we want is to be crushed to sub-atomic particles in the maw of some grinding gravitational pool of inky darkness!  So, to keep from thinking about these things, we devise various tricks to fool ourselves.  This is fun, too, except we take it all too seriously and kill and hate each other, our hearts turning to stone and our lusts demanding that nonbelievers be sucked into the inky dark black holes of outer space to die in torment forever!  Ha!  Teach them to question our choice for ‘reality’!

 

Perhaps due to being hit more than once by lightning, having flown through the Gates of Death and then flung back into the Living World again, I can see the utility of having religions and I understand why scientists need their own belief systems and it is funny to see humans debate ‘What is Reality’ and ‘What is rational’ when we are the most irrational and unreal creatures in all creation.

 

Some whales have been known to live for over 300 years as have some trees and some tortoises in the GALOPOULOS  islands.  I believe we should ask those creatures about rational thinking.  We would have to be VERY patient because it will take them a long, long time to answer us.  But we can’t wait 100 years for the answer, we are impatient.  We want things in the Here and Now, not some distant time in the future.

 

A funny thing, that.  When my 700+ year old oak tree died, I went outside to photograph its death.  It waited patiently for me to approach from the west.  As I aimed the camera, it suddenly, with no warning, tried to fall on me.  Luckily, since I live in the Here and Now somewhat, I ran and evaded  being crushed.  But my dog ran before me being totally a Here and Now creature and the cats won’t go near the dead tree at all even a year later.  They know something…time to watch the cats snooze in the sun some more…might learn something…like their trick for becoming a god thousands of years ago in Egypt.

sunset borger

side picture begging boneEmail:

emeinel@fairpoint.net

MAILING ADDRESS:

EMS NEWS

P.O. BOX 483

BERLIN, NY 12022

Make checks out to ‘Elaine Supkis’

Click on the Pegasus icon on the right sidebar to donate via Paypal.


sunset borger

 

 

 

 

 

32 Comments

Filed under religion

32 responses to “All Humans Are Irrational Believers Of Something Or Another

  1. fred

    Elaine, if that tree was 700 years old, it contains a valuable tree-ring record of climate over that interval. Try to save some intact sections of the lower trunk. Great article too! –Fred

  2. Yes I agree with Fred….
    This is offtopic but I want to share, from Los Angeles Craigslist..
    notice the last sentence for ‘the hook’!

    American Immigration Council’s New Multimedia Contest
    Date: 2012-04-27, 6:00AM PDT
    Reply to: vxnqq-2982055982@gigs.craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
    The American Immigration Council is pleased to announce a call for submissions to the 2012 “Change in Motion” Multimedia Contest.

    The competition challenges today’s young adults to explore the role that immigration plays in their lives and communities through video and other multimedia projects.

    Projects should focus on celebrating America as a nation of immigrants as well as the immigration’s impact on our everyday lives.[end quote]

    Young folks are ‘challenged’ but the theme [immigrations positive [cough] impact] is theme.

  3. Eso

    It will be interesting to learn what a clone to the 10th generation will think of his/her reasons for coming back to life. Will he-she substitute the 11th episode for religion?

  4. melponeme_k

    Perhaps it suffered from a sickness other than old age that can affect animals as well. The dogs and cats can smell it so they stay far away. I would suggest touching it only with gloves and a mask.

    But then again, lets go crazy and state that the spirit living inside the tree wanted to steal your place in the world in order to be reborn.

  5. melponeme_k

    I pray to this cat.

    He looks like a cat that can get prayers answered. 😀

    You’ve written posts about how dogs befriended us, write one about cats!

  6. roger

    Death only means the end of consciousness, ,the body decomposes and give the soil some well needed nutrients,same as the dead tree or any other plant. It’s the exit that can be a problem,IE: who wants to lay in bed with life support up his/her nose.

  7. Seraphim

    Where are the Galopoulos islands? I checked the link and there is a tube saying “I am …Malakas”. Now in Greek malakas means wanker. Does that refer to rational thinking or to irrational thinking?

  8. JT

    cats are c*nts.

  9. JimmyJ

    I attended UBC in the 70s and my experience was there were elements of the psychology dept that assigned an a priori importance to the notion of a spiritual intuition and that the experience of this is somehow more authentic a human experience than rigourous application of rationality. Not saying this study has a bias, just that there is a history there.

    There is another recent UBC study that indicated people view atheists on par with rapists.

    http://goo.gl/5Vjos

    So, irrational folks secretly despise rational folks, no news there.

    It seems to me we are all working primarily on the so-called animal instinct that the study authors believe only exists in non-human animals. Hence rational thought only provides glimpses of reality, enough to drive us to delusional state most of the time. Since I also suspect that reality is entirely objective, the best we can achieve is to experience the truth with open eyes. That experience feels religious. Epiphany!

    Or maybe I just need to take my meds.

  10. Ziff house

    Reality seems kind of slow , like erosion , our interests move faster than that.
    Jimmy i attended UBC in the 70’s also , went hiking with a forestry prof once who complained loudly about those 70’s students, I had to clam up around him ever since ,as I was one , unhappy with that experience,,, just me.

  11. billibaldi

    “Some whales have been known to live for over 300 years as have some trees and some tortoises in the GALOPOULOS islands. I believe we should ask those creatures about rational thinking…”

    Somebody did, I refer you to the work of John Cunningham Lilly.

  12. Christian W

    “Indeed, all the scientists I have ever known and I know a huge number, have said their best thinking is done when they are doing something else the frees up the cognitive part of the mind so that we don’t actively interfere with it. That is, while dreaming or playing music or weeding the garden or fishing…what matters is, letting the rational part of the mind alone so it can do its thing without emotional hysteria.”

    The scientist Kekulé famously came up with the chemical structure of Benzene while snoozing!

  13. Being There

    Yes, we are a curious critter, we are hardwired for spirituality in lieu of the forces of nature we don’t understand, yet there is no greater plan why this should be so.

    On another blog a few years ago I wrote:
    [….The more we fight nature, the faster we’ll destroy our precious habitat. We’re the only critter that doesn’t have a clue what we’re doing on this earth and is destroying that which gives sustenance to our very existence. Our self-awareness works both ways and sadly we can envision our own demise, as the system may be too far-gone to stop the process.]

    It isn’t just religion that gets in the way of rational thought we also have people insisting on a global economic system that isn’t working for the industrialized nations – made into post-industrialized nations.

    The fools that are instituting this will not turn back and we will watch the demise of the Western world as they continue to smash us, all the time touting how wonderful global neoliberalism paired with neoconservatism is.

    Rampant privitization means higher prices for the profit margins.(look at the medical costs) More war for the privatized contractors, please—with no regard for debt.

    Back to the future:
    Those ideologies exist along with religion and yet are wholly secular. Why people continue this process in the face of total destruction is what makes us such a mystery. The American people are consisdering electing a man who extracts wealth from business and says he’s a great businessman, he offshore his money in Swiss Banks and the Grand Caymans and yet he’s fit to run this nation—go figure.
    –The American experiment is over and the nobility we tried to break away from is being re-instated.

    I expect nothing good can come of this and we will never learn..We’ve had centuries to figure out what works and we still insist on ignoring the lessons.

  14. Paul S

    “Rampant privitization means higher prices for the profit margins….” That’s very true, but it isn’t just privatization that makes costs skyrocket. The best example I can think of to show this is the University education system in the US. Public Universities have been receiving taxpayer subsidies all along and yet, year after year after year, University education costs always rise faster than the inflation rate. The whole purpose of publicly financed University educations was to make the cost of College affordable–because an educated workforce is a productive workforce. Instead of this, we have maximiziation of profit as the main cost driver for Public Universities. Students–and their ENORMOUS student loan debt be DAMNED. This is why I favor either a complete reform of the US University system of funding or VERY sharp reductions in Public financing for the Universities. If only the spolied rotten rich kids can afford to go to University, let THEIR parents pay for it 100%. Wall Street aren’t the only ones who plan on getting rich off the backs off the taxpayers. THAT’s–imho–the real problem.

  15. ooh@ch.ie

    So we like to think we are rational, oops, I always figured to attempt to understand the limit of a function as it approaches infinity one must have religion or acid.

    Or as per Popper you can only be certain of that which is proven false.

    As for belief systems try the following link, best part comes at 5.07

  16. Hi Elaine, I believe that religious thoughts are logical, as I wrote today, Have you ever given any reflection to the thought presented in 2 Peter 1: 1-21, that you are not following some kind of cunningly devised tale passed on from generation to generation, that you indeed and in truth, the elect of God. That is to say, that God in eternity past, looking down the hallways of time, chose you to believe in Him, and that as his Beloved, you would come forth calling on His name for salvation, at a time and place of his choosing, that is to say that He appointed you to believe, that He is and is a rewarder of those that earnestly seek Him; and that His selection of you had nothing to do with any merit or decision on your part. If so, then welcome, as you are on the right page, that is to say, you are of the like precious faith of Jesus Christ.

    As for part of your consideration of the Present Truth revealed by the Apostles, that is the sent ones, please consider that the lens of bible prophecy provided by the dream of the Apostle John, and not Austrian economic theory of Mises, Hayek, and Rothbard, provides the best lens to view unfolding global economic and political activity. …. for more one can read Global Economic Analysis Through The Lens Of Bible Prophecy is http://tinyurl.com/77fuktq

  17. fred

    “please consider that the lens of bible prophecy provided by the dream of the Apostle John, and not Austrian economic theory of Mises, Hayek, and Rothbard, provides the best lens to view unfolding global economic and political activity.” Please consider this biblical proposition:

    http://www.letgodbetrue.com/proverbs/12_17.htm

    The Great Harlot of Rev 17-18 is Jerusalem, & what that means.

    It’s very important to know who the Great Harlot is if we are to obey the command in Rev 18:4, “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

    http://www.bibleprophesy.org/rev1718.htm

    And consider this: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/in_fallujah_a_hospital_of_horrors_20120426/

    Finally, consider that a small cabal of Zionist psychopaths brought us the Wars on Iraq. They have actually boasted that their influence was decisive. Yet Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. Christian Zionists – the term is an oxymoron really – need to re-examine all their assumption about who the good guys are, and who the bad guys are.

    Here are some resources for that re-examination:

    Previous, noteworthy, history-shaping, deadly and expensive lies:

    Like Pappy (Bush), like son: The NIE versus Bush lies on Iraq

    Mitt Romney shows he is made from the same stuff as the lying Bush Presidents:

    RFK jr. on the Fairness Doctrine
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7405642335302393078#

    FoxNews: The more you watch, the dumber you get

    The Fire This Time: U.S. Crimes in the Gulf
    http://www.amazon.com/Fire-This-Time-U-S-Crimes/dp/1560250712

    9/11 Cliffs Notes

    What should a Christian think about such lies? Probably something like this:
    http://www.letgodbetrue.com/proverbs/12_17.htm

    *As Paul Craig Roberts (remember “Reaganomics”?) observed:

    “The uniformity of the US media has become much more complete since the days of the cold war. During the 1990s, the US government permitted an unconscionable concentration of print and broadcast media that terminated the independence of the media*. Today the US media is owned by 5 giant companies in which pro-Zionist Jews have disproportionate influence. …… Americans who rely on the totally corrupt corporate media have no idea what is happening anywhere on earth, much less at home.”

    ************************

    Mike Wallace – Neocon policy mouthpiece – Shameless propaganda

    ******************************

    Churchill, Winston: “Germany’s unforgivable crime before the second world war was her attempt to extricate her economic power from the world’s trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.” Churchill to Lord Robert Boothby, as quoted in: Sidney Rogerson, Propaganda in the Next War (Foreword to the second edition 2001), originally published in 1938. (Could just as well be Iran… as they recently opened an oil exchange*…)

    * http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Iran-Opens-Oil-Bourse-Harbinger-of-Trouble-for-New-York-and-London.html
    ******************************

    useful background:
    George Washington’s farewell address has been called a classic statement of republicanism, warning Americans of the political dangers they can and must avoid if they are to remain true to their values.

    Here is one small excerpt:

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Washington%27s_Farewell_Address#22

    31 Observe good faith and justice towards all Nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religion and Morality enjoin this conduct; and can it be, that good policy does not equally enjoin it? It will be worthy of a free, enlightened, and, at no distant period, a great Nation, to give to mankind the magnanimous and too novel example of a people always guided by an exalted justice and benevolence. Who can doubt, that, in the course of time and things, the fruits of such a plan would richly repay any temporary advantages, which might be lost by a steady adherence to it ? Can it be, that Providence has not connected the permanent felicity of a Nation with its Virtue? The experiment, at least, is recommended by every sentiment which ennobles human nature. Alas! is it rendered impossible by its vices ?

    32 In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential, than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular Nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The Nation, which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The Nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the Government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The Government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times, it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of Nations has been the victim.

    Read more: http://www.newsherald.com/articles/paul-101682-record-choice.html#ixzz1rED55y8Q

  18. kenogami

    “Some whales have been known to live for over 300 years as have some trees and some tortoises in the GALOPOULOS islands.”
    ============

    Elaine means the Galapagos islands obviously:
    (named them after the Spanish galápago, meaning tortoise.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galápagos_Islands

    A captive individual lived at least 170 years.

  19. EC

    Right, all humans are irrational who believe in religion, i.e. God, and only Elaine sees “Reality.” Too funny. The truth is we all choose our own belief system and reality. The “reality” Elaine is hinting at as most important is what happens to us after we die, but who can claim to truly know that? Elaine has chosen to believe in nothingness, death, and black holes as our destiny, guided by “a pagan spirit that overtook” her from a cactus in the desert, “demonic” “Watchers” that torture her and make her see things, and other assorted entities I’m sure. Others choose to believe not in death, but in life with a loving God, guided by a loving Christ and God’s holy ones. To each his own. We can choose to believe in complete nothingness, or to end up in the Outer Darkness or Heaven.

  20. emsnews

    When have I said that I see reality? I just said that NO ONE can do this. We might even say this is a ‘god’ function.

    I did say that animals live in the here and now. So from that point of view, they ‘see’ momentary ‘reality’ whereas, since we all dream (even if you don’t remember dreams) we see a ‘fantasy world’ created by our minds and memories.

    This distorts waking reality which is why we are so easily distracted.

  21. Christian W

    It is not only that we dream, but also that we like to fantasize about a future that doesn’t exist, or get lost in (distorted) memories that only exist in our brains…

  22. fred

    One the subject of distorted memories, there are fantastic examples to the contrary. Here is one.

    It is difficult to envision the great flood, or floods Bretz’s research revealed. In some areas evidence indicates the surface of the water was over six hundred feet above ground level! One aqueous mountain was so vast that it manifested a surface gradient steep enough to push water, in surrounding river valleys, upstream more than seventy miles. Abrupt breaks in the icy confines of glacial Lake Missoula apparently caused this flooding. Exactly why this lake so suddenly lost its integrity is still open to debate. It is also yet unclear how many catastrophic floods occurred.

    The last major deluge in this area took place over eleven thousand years ago; volcanic tephra from a dated eruption of Glacier Peak establishes this. Given the proven antiquity of this flooding episode, one can but marvel at the lucid, and if anything, understated account passed along to us by Chief Lot, a respected leader in the Spokane Indian community:

    A long time ago the country around where Spokane Falls are now, and for many days’ journey east of it, was a large and beautiful lake. In the lake were many islands, and on its shores were many villages with many people. The Indians were well fed and happy, for there were plenty of fish in the lake and plenty of deer and elk in the country around it.

    But one summer morning the people were startled by a rumbling and a shaking of the earth. The waters of the lake rose. Soon the waves became mountains of water that broke with fury against the shore.

    Then the sun was blotted out, and darkness covered the land and the water. Terrified, the people ran to the hills to get away from the pounding water. For two days the earth rumbled and quaked. Than a rain of ashes began to fall. It fell for several weeks.

    At last the ashes stopped falling, the waters of the lake became quiet, and the Indians came down from the hills. But soon the lake began to disappear. Dry land rose where the water had been. Many people died, for there was nothing to eat. The game animals had run away when the people fled to the hills, and no one dared go out on the lake to fish.

    Some of the water was flowing westward from the lake that remained. The people followed it until they came to a waterfall. Soon they saw salmon coming up the new river from the big river west of them. So they built a village beside the waterfall in the new river and made it their home.

    This legend was read by Major R.D. Gwydin at a meeting of the Spokane Historical Society, which was held toward the end of the last century–long before Bretz began his investigation. The full value of this account could not have been apparent then. Only results of recent geologic field work can provide the story with a time frame and so gauge its accuracy.

    The fact that the legend tells of a great lake in the Spokane area which was badly drained via a new river created by the action of a catastrophic flood that occurred in conjunction with violent tectonic activity, including vulcanism, makes it difficult to misplace in time. This is almost certainly an eleven thousand year old eyewitness account of a, or the, Spokane flooding episode. Not only does this succinct report tell of a feature which required years of geologic field work to establish–the presence of a vast lake in the Spokane area–but it also reveals a detail which could not be easily proven by a contemporary geologic investigation. The assertion in the legend, that volcanic ash fell during this flood should be considered a valuable piece of collateral evidence which could shed further light on events of this time period. To date, geologists have only used the tephra deposited on these flood features as a means of limiting the time interval in which the flooding could have occurred. Accepting this Native American legend as a likely eyewitness account, rather than an ex-post-facto construct, might allow geologists to affix a fairly firm date to at least one major Spokane flood.

    This was found here: http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/nicd.html

  23. emsnews

    All humans have tales about floods because…there are floods all over the place at fairly frequent intervals.

  24. fred

    I have a pretty large library of native mythology from around the world. Certain details show up far too often to explain without, at minimum, recourse to some communication to homogenize the stories. And there is some reason to suspect that that communication was happening at the exact moment in time when the alphabet was being born out of a lunar calender system. See the 1969 study The Alphabet and the Ancient Calender Signs. This book proves that alphabets on separate continents had a common origin that can be reconstructed today. Central America, the Levant and Asia were in communication when the invention of the alphabet was evolving from pictographic calender signs to numbers and letters. If you decide to obtain this book, make sure you get the edition authored by BOTH Moran and Kelly.

  25. EC

    Well, you claim to be “free” from religion and God. You seem to support that anyone who believes in religion or God does so because they are scared to death of the “reality” you believe in, which isn’t well defined but apparently is the opposite of a belief in God and/or religion. You claim to have died and returned, while dead yourself saw a dead, lifeless Jesus who didn’t help you, and apparently have seen (were shown?) how religion is only a comfort to people, not representative of the true “reality” as you believe it or may have experienced things. But you are intentionally pretty vague about these things, unless you really are confused by all your dreaming, visions, and being shown things.

    I do appreciate your thoughts in general, and of course appreciate the discussion. I liked the article about why do people believe in religion, and about the different kinds of thought processes – rational, and two alternatives, irrational or non-rational=intuitive. I believe that rational thought has severe limitations, and like to listen to my gut or more importantly my heart. I guess that makes me more of an intuitive “thinker” and more religious, but not necessarily irrational.

    It takes all kinds of people, and it’s OK for people with different belief systems and views to debate differences. For someone to say someone else’s reality is wrong, and since it differs from mine must be irrational and based on fear is a bit condescending, insulting, and hypocritical.

    Living in the here and now is good, and should be encouraged by meditation, letting go of the past, and not worrying too much about the future!

    Aww, off to dream now. I hope I don’t have to bash some heads together again tonight. Those dreams are no fun.

    By the way, how would you have any idea whether or not animals remembers their dreams?

  26. JT

    @EC

    According to a recent poll a scary number of people reading this site were INTJ types.
    So welcome to the club 😀 .

  27. EC

    Yeah, EMS’ INTJ club! Interesting how this thread weaves in so much with Carl Jung, who believed the human psyche is “by nature religous,” whose theories were used to develop the MBTI personality types, who talked about archetypes (like The Great Flood) that come from “the collective unconscious” that Elaine thinks all can access during Dreaming.

    I see that Jung was fascinated with the Occult, which I’m interested in understanding what it is (in its many forms) and how it works without experiencing it myself, especially – why people partake of such things, what it costs them and what they gain from it, how it fits into the simple construct of good versus evil, and why the secrecy and/or need to keep it hidden? Two strange Ouji board experiences were enough for me. How did that thing move so fast? I think I know the answers intuitively 🙂

    To quote Neil Young’s song, “I’m a dreamin’ man, yes that’s my problem. I can’t tell when I’m not being real.” “I’ll always be a dreamin’ man, I don’t have to understand. I know it’s all right.” But being an INTJ and reading about this type / mode some more, I guess I do have to understand what’s it all about.

  28. emsnews

    Most people who go deliberately into the Outer Darkness are destroyed. I suspect the only way to do this and not go insane is to do it via lightning bolts. But let me tell you, that hurts like all hell!

  29. #30, I believe [no pun] that Jung was devoted to Ramana, going to primitive India long ago to visit the Silent Sage.

    ‘The truth is we all choose our own belief system and reality’…Really? Maybe it chooses us. Who is stronger?

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s