CO2 Was Low During Hot Miocene Era

It is bad enough with many US born-again Christians believing in the Apocalyptic End of Times, we also have the 12/12/12 Mayan End of Times hysteria and to top this dreadful noxious mix, we have the environmentalists screaming about their own End of Times, too.  That is, we are all already doomed!  With all this negative hysteria, it is hard to sort out the hard science or cause and effect.  One thing is absolutely certain: the out of control population boom of the equatorial regions is very bad for our species and has to be stopped somehow.


Mother Nature does this in rather crude ways.  Humans can do this via birth control methods.  The shocking thing here is, the Born Again Christians are anti-birth control, the religious fanatics across the spectrum are mainly anti-women’s rights and anti-birth control and the liberals who are fearful of ecological collapse are too dainty to suggest the Chinese communist solution of enforced birth controls so we hurtle towards ecological collapse due to deforestation of the equatorial jungles and billions of desperately poor people stripping the land like locusts in a drought.


Virtually every article, every scientific meeting avoids the Chinese communist solution to these looming problems.  Here is the latest ‘we are all doomed!’ announcements which craftily avoids even mentioning the Chinese communist solution:  Apocalypse soon – Environment –


According to the group of more than 20 scientists responsible for these observations, published this week in Nature, these shifts could also be pushing the Earth toward a tipping point — a round of irreversible planet-wide changes. During the last great transformation of the planet, when miles upon miles of ice receded and left the planet in its current interglacial states, about 30 percent of the planet’s surface transitioned from ice-covered wasteland to landscapes more closely resembling the ones we know today. The shifts that we humans are responsible for are more dramatic and are happening faster.


Actually, this is typical exaggeration at work.  The dominant species of Ice Age Eurasia and North America are nearly TOTALLY different from today.  The landscape was TREMENDOUSLY different back then.  The difference between some trees cut down in rain forests versus half of the northern hemisphere under a mile of ice is monumentally different.


It is true humans are destroying other species as we multiply like crazy.  And the fix is obvious and simple: birth controls applied uniformly so that religious cults can’t evade this and breed like crazy while everyone else shows some restraint.  This is the problem: the only way to do this is to have the Chinese communists impose the child bearing laws on the world.  This isn’t going to happen due to obvious reasons unless the Chinese do manage to take over the planet entirely which isn’t impossible, by the way.


The main story here is how scientists are yelling about the destruction of the environment while offering no realistic solutions.  The global warming business focusing nearly entirely on CO2 production schemes has basically totally ignored the human population boom occurring mainly in the hottest parts of the world.  It would seem to me that hot=more babies, no?  Humans thrive in warm places.  We managed to colonize the cold places but only by dint of tremendous effort.  Multiplying in hot places is easy, the children can spend nearly all their time outside and extra food is generally easy for them to scavenge.


The reason why the jungle regions of the planet are seeing more humans is simple: modern medical technologies vaccinate these people from former deadly diseases which used to keep the population down.


Since worries about the looming overpopulation problem has been virtually terminated due to the realistic understanding that the only method of stopping this equatorial population boom is to have Chinese communists do it, the ecology movement focuses nearly entirely only on the CO2 business.  That is, we are all going to roast to death even though humans LOVE roasting a lot.  Here is the latest story showing clearly the global warming people cannot understand what is right in front of their noses:  Green Car Congress: Study finds ocean warmth and atmospheric CO2 concentrations were decoupled during Miocene period; suggests role of ocean circulation, clouds and water vapor feedback


 A new study based on deep-sea sediment cores, published in the journal Nature, has found that during the Miocene period ~12–5 million years ago, climate was decoupled from atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations. During that time, temperatures across a broad swath of the North Pacific were 9–14 °F warmer than today, while atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations remained low—200–350 ppm, i.e., near values prior to the Industrial Revolution.


Most studies of Earth’s climate have consistently found a strong correlation between global climate and atmospheric carbon dioxide—i.e., during warm periods, high concentrations of CO2 persist, while colder times correspond to relatively low levels.


We propose that a relatively deep global thermocline, reductions in low-latitude gradients in sea surface temperature, and cloud and water vapor feedbacks may help to explain the warmth of the late Miocene. Additional shoaling of the thermocline after 5 Myr ago probably explains the stronger coupling between pco2, sea surface temperatures and climate that is characteristic of the more recent Pliocene and Pleistocene epochs.

—LaRiviere et al.


These data provide the first evidence that late Miocene sea surface temperatures were significantly warmer than today across a large swath of the North Pacific. The research team found that sea surface temperatures appeared to be highest in the early part of the late Miocene (around 12 to 13 million years ago), and gradually cooled throughout the late Miocene.


It’s a surprising finding, given our understanding that climate and carbon dioxide are strongly coupled to each other. In the late Miocene, there must have been some other way for the world to be warm. One possibility is that large-scale patterns in ocean circulation, determined by the very different shape of the ocean basins at the time, allowed warm temperatures to persist despite low levels of carbon dioxide.

—Jonathan LaRiviere


HAHAHA…so, the data doesn’t match the ideology!  So there must have been some tricky, hard to find cause that made it ‘unexpectedly warm’!  HAHAHA.  Right!  It never ceases to amaze me how people can shoehorn facts into various belief models to keep their precious belief models intact.


To this day, no one really knows why the earth began having these systematic, periodic and rhythmically timed ice ages that get colder and colder each cycle.  Hints abound.  The fact that the Miocene began very warm and gradually became cooler and cooler is a strong hint.  That is, the solar energy output from our old sun has changed over the eons and it is becoming slightly colder each cycle.


The exclusion of the sun from theories about earth temperatures puzzled me for years.  Why do these climatologists do this?  I would guess it is due to how they are instructed in school and how they are tested before they are certified.  Anyone who believes the sun is the chief cause and engine of climate change is booted out of the classroom and has to go into astronomy or work on Wall Street.


Just as astronomers struggle to figure out the obvious nature of why galaxies are universally falling towards other galaxies, the climate change people have to recognize that the real problem for humans is our old star, the sun, giving us troubles.  We are ultimately doomed to destruction unless we set up colonies all over the galactic plane but then that merely gives us more opportunities to freak out over the End of Times, no?  An endless problem for humans no matter where we take up residence.


On the other side of the ecological merry-go-round is the The World Future Council: Future Policy Award because they nominated Japan for Future Policy Award for innovative initiatives for dealing with ocean pollution and the ecology of the Pacific Ocean!  Good gods!  That is beyond demented!  The country polluting half of the planet’s ocean ecology with noxious levels of radiation…is hilarious when we consider this organization also nominated the US, home of the Gulf Oil disaster, for the same award!


More Fukushima news from China:  Scrap metals from Japan found radioactive.  One of the commonest propaganda points against China is how the evil commies keep exporting tainted stuff.  Of course, the US and Japan do this, too.  But we aren’t supposed to notice this fine detail.sunset borger

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Filed under evolution, nature

38 responses to “CO2 Was Low During Hot Miocene Era

  1. DeVaul

    Speaking of cults:

    Does this idiot think Buffet will make him a multi-billionaire from tips gathered during lunch? (Selling lunches is how Buffet makes millions).

    I have free advice: become too big to fail and then loot the US Treasury with fellow peers. Cost for lunch with me: you pay for the Big Mac.

  2. Peter

    Notwithstanding the fact that temperatures stopped rising in 1998 while CO2 kept rising so the correlation if there ever was one is gone.
    What I don’t understand is why the warmists are willing to lie and cheat to blame human CO2 for “climate change”.What’s in it for them? Like Eilene I worry way more about another ice age .
    When the planet slips into an ice age it seems to happen rather quickly…like 2 decades for the temperatures to drop fully.
    That speaks of massive scary changes over a very short time period.

  3. Eso

    ….The reason why the jungle regions of the planet are seeing more humans is simple: modern medical technologies vaccinate these people from former deadly diseases which used to keep the population down…..

    True, but we should not forget that before the modern wonders arrived, the people of the jungle regions had very different governments from those today.

    As for the ‘warmists’, I believe that the only way of life that guarantees warmth and democracy is living in the woods.Compared to today’s ‘democracy’, democracy in the forest may be an extreme experience, however, given the alternative….

  4. JT

    “Finland is the most extensively forested country in Europe. Forests cover 86 percent of its land area. There are about four and half hectares of forest to every Finn.
    Average growth of million cubic metres on a summer´s day”

    And they grow faster than we cut them and apparently faster every year.
    (and when you use wood to build a house the carbon stays there for a hundred years at least).

    Now that is a lot of carbon.
    Compared to the 1 mile thick skating rink we had here 10 000 years ago which to my knowledge did not take any carbon out of the athmosphere.


  5. CK

    I suppose we are all

    Yes indeed

  6. DeVaul, before you call anyone, including me, an Ijit, last I checked the dreaded Buffett didnt make a dime off the luncheons [indeed they may have cost him money]. It was a …duh…charity event.
    And buying a geniuses time may be a great way to ‘study him’.
    Again, things may have changed. I read 2 books on this horrible big % of the 1%. Never did the books mention him making $ off the charity event.

    Elaine, here in 90401-90210 area, I took ‘green jobs’ classes. No one [to my knowledge, and I did follow up] got a job from these enviro classes.
    4.8 MILLION in TARP money mis spent. And the teachers never mentioned
    [gasp] closing the borders!!!!
    How could they with so many Illegals attending school there? [1000? +]

    During WW1 and WW2 were the borders closed? USA is fighting 2 wars now.
    Also whats the impact of 70M, year after year, their footprint on USA?

  7. ‘Since worries about the looming overpopulation problem has been virtually terminated due to the realistic understanding that the only method of stopping this equatorial population boom is to have Chinese communists do it….’
    In fact Many US Citizens are concerned. Many Republicans are concerned.
    The left/corporate media has shut them out, due to their un PC like notions.

    Brimelow says his BEST SELLER got 530 bad reviews and he was called a ‘racist’..gee big surprise? The NY Times didnt like his pro white notions.
    And no corporate newspaper or mag GAVE HIM A GOOD REVIEW. NONE.
    Buchanans books are best sellers, hes called a racist.
    Go over to TAKIsMag…read that Madonna in racist Israel had the stupidity to put Miss LePennes image on stage with a swastika like symbol over LePennes face.
    In what is maybe the most racist country on earth she implies the LePennes are racists! wtf??????
    She didnt use a swastika because it may be censored / illegal in Israel.


  8. ‘The reason why the jungle regions of the planet are seeing more humans is simple: modern medical technologies vaccinate these people from former deadly diseases which used to keep the population down.’

    Yes Melissa Gates is doing what she can to ‘save Africans’….and that means, gulp, more Africans, worldwide.
    That continents billion is projected to double soon………………good luck!

  9. Just to say, let me say:

    1. Those of you who are mean to a friend of mine are no friend of mine.
    2. Those of you who stick a niddle in the eye are some of my friends.
    3. And many more are not.



  10. and just for old time’s sake, let me say again……….

    There is so much more to be said.

    Agree or not?

    bees already know better

    agree or no?

    If no, or if not, defend your position.

    How bout that for some Catholic school fools?

  11. and NOW I have read the first few senatances, and I’ll say this about cause and effett. Shove up affectively if you want it to last. Otherwise shove it up somebody’s ass. No what I mean.

    No without the K or the totally stupid “w” who could or could not make things better. Know what I mean by this? Tree is better than bush any day of the week.

    Mitt ain’t got no chance. Obama was born as we all are, but still he ain’t got no chance. Well then, what is gonna happen!

    Spain got 125, problem is that that is a small bet. In the world of derivatives, things can grow fast.

    Nonetheless, I invest in Fuel Cell Energy.


    Check out the numbers…..

  12. please refer to my previous posts regarding typos if you have any chance of understanding that above.

    P.s. I have friends here and I could name them but I won’t.

  13. By JOSH FUNK AP Business Writer
    OMAHA, Neb. June 9, 2012 (AP)

    The cost to dine with investor Warren Buffett has apparently spiked in value, with one deep-pocketed bidder forking over nearly $3.5 million during a charity auction.

    The annual auction for a private lunch with the Nebraska billionaire closed following a flurry of activity in the final hours Friday night. In the end, the highest bid was a record-breaking $3,456,789.

    Recaption…robber barons throw the 99% some crumbs

  14. He knows his stuff, but stil, they are suckers!

    Money down the drain. Don’t know bout you but I’m tired of all the charity.

    Grow or grok, choose your future!

  15. 90404 – your are easily divided into

    47202….then something that is 101…

    Crumbs are not gonna work this time around….

    Elaine, what do you think about drilling in the Gulf of Mxico In a sentance or two if you could please.

    Now with respect to fracking, I think it is going to make a difference. Cheap gas, is better than oil any day of the week.

  16. make that 45…..sorry Elaine, I had it correct at first…

    No matter, choose your number for the future if you want to….

  17. and one last for the sake of what…… is up to me what this one last one is for, but if you doubt it’s veracity, then obviously that is up to you.

    I put in my time.

    In the end the simple golden rule is all that we really need…..I mean to you really need me to day it to you.

    To do on to others as that you would have them do on to you.

    Yeah, I’m preaching.

  18. “do”
    nuf from me as has been the case, many times before…

    “I do on to others as that which I would have them do on to me”….but obviously it doesn’t always work this way…..duh.

  19. Richard

    Hello Buffalo Ken. Maybe you could refrain from posting until you come down from your high: Cocaine, LSD, Meth, what ever.

  20. Richard. Thank you for you kind post. What do you think though about the things I had to say? Any opinion on that or are you all judgement?

  21. Cause frankly we have all had enough of that.

  22. Yes, I’m looking for some confrontation. I need it. So Richard if you are incapable, and 90404 if the same is true for you, well then that is all that we need to know.

    Neither or you all got anything worth saying is what I think, but that is just my opinion…..of which I have many.

    Many of which have been poorly stated, I will admit out front, but nonetheless, those which have been placed, I stand by.

    Elaine, Irish Mead is awaiting for the day when you show up at my place!

    I can keep the lightening away……or at least I will do my best, just as I have asked my daughter to do!

    OK – refrain is the word for me……

  23. emsnews

    That is the study I cited above, by the way. Yes, they believe this collapse will be forever forgetting how evolution works and how the planet has recreated life after some pretty severe asteroid hits/ice ages including the entire planet freezing at one point.

    Ken: I had to banish you in the past for too many postings saying nothing at all or insulting other posters. Already you have done both. This is my last warning. Exercise some basic self-control, please.

  24. Being There

    …The The World Future Council: Future Policy Award because they nominated Japan for Future Policy Award …

    Distorto Contorto
    It isn’t just the US that is totally loopy, we seem to have exported not only our wars and our Neoliberalism, but twisted logic as well. It does not bode well for any of us. It’s just like Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize.

    We are suffering from compartmentalized thought processes that don’t look at the greater context.

    When thing get crazy here, will there be refuge?

  25. Indiana Radiation Spike Triggers Elevated Levels In Other States, Media Stays Silent…. any thoughts anyone??? Seeing more and more blogs various sites. False flag? Real? Elaine?

  26. emsnews

    Evidently that was an error of the equipment.

    There is a LOT of hysteria online.

  27. DeVaul

    Wow, 90404!

    You really let the cat out of bag on Buffet. So, you think he is a genius because the government bailed out his firm’s bad derivatives bets? I guess you missed the photo of him laughing and saying that the bailout program was the best thing that ever happened to his hedge fund.

    By the way, what kind of genius allows his Berkshire fund to lose money steadily over many years while he rakes in excess cash at the expense of his clients — oh, right, a genius!

    Finally, what did Buffet donate the 3.5 million to for the lunch with him? I would like to know the name of the charity please. Just curious.

  28. 90404

    DV, I see Warren as very good at making money. I dont think he and his buddy Bill G are good guys.
    Flame on.

  29. 90404

    Public Radio was saying May was hottest month ever? or 2nd hottest May.
    It was Goodman, she who made Mumia famous, so I take it with a grain of salt.

  30. This is from a leading article at HuffPost:

    Nature Climate Change
    despite the onslaught of politicians attempting to project an air of question around man-made climate change, studies continue to emerge proving the connection between human actions and our changing environment. The most recent study, published in Nature Climate Change, finds an “anthropogenic fingerprint” (human influence) on our warming oceans.

    The study, “Human-Induced Global Ocean Warming On Multidecadal Timescales,” was conducted by researchers in the U.S., Australia, Japan and India. Based on observations of rising upper-ocean temperatures, the researchers used improved estimates of ocean temperatures to examine the causes of our warmi………………………………………………………………….

  31. emsnews

    May was very cold here and in places like England. Remember: the clue is not the polar regions but the places where the glaciers piled up during the Ice Ages that matter.

  32. Elaine, I am clueless…..found this at Drudge:

    im like..yikes:
    Bank of America Pledges $50 Billion to Combat Climate Change

    By Kristin Jones

    Bank of America Corp. (BAC) said it will contribute $50 billion over the next 10 years to address climate change, the latest company to boost its investments toward environmental goals.

    The new set of goals will be effective on Jan. 1, following the anticipated completion of the bank’s current 10-year pledge of $20 billion, which it said is four years ahead of schedule. “Environmental business delivers value to our clients, return for our shareholders, and helps strengthen the economy,” said Chief Executive Brian Moynihan. “We met our prior goal in about half the time we set for ourselves, so more than doubling our target is ambitious but achievable.”

    The bank’s new initiative includes lending, equipment finance, capital markets and advisory activity and carbon finance, as well as advice and investment help

  33. emsnews

    Of course! They are pledging to LOAN this money and to use it to also play the carbon derivatives markets which they desperately want to do. I remember them all boasting that the CO2 pollution trade derivatives would dwarf all industry and oil/gas markets!

    And I yelled about this dangerous idea and many a ‘green’ attacked me for not fixing the CO2 problem. Dear me!

    The CO2 business is big bucks to the big banks which is why they are energetically pushing the ‘we are going to roast to death’ mantra while at the same time, living a carbon-heavy lifestyle which I keep pointing out.

    Until all these clowns live like me (I consume very little energy and own a forest that produces lots of oxygen and absorbs CO2 passively) I will mock the global warming fear mongering.

  34. JT

    “The bank’s new initiative includes lending, equipment finance, capital markets and advisory activity and carbon finance, as well as advice and investment help”

    I would expect mostly carbon finance.
    Polluters get carbon credits for free and the company sells th credits, is then sold or moves offshore.
    Money out of thin air for foreign investments and banks.

  35. monk

    Read this article for more details:

    “Today’s Climate More Sensitive to Carbon Dioxide Than in Past 12 Million Years”

    especially the last eleven paragraphs.

  36. JT


    “The results explain the seeming paradox of the warm–but low greenhouse gas–world of the Miocene,” says Candace Major, program director in NSF’s Division of Ocean Sciences.”

    The short explanation is:
    CO2 is not the driver/changer/god of earth’s climate.
    We should add a few (or a few hundred) more variables to computer models.

  37. emsnews

    Yes, the confusion rises, doesn’t it?

    Overall, the planet is getting colder when compared to the last 200 million+ years.

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