Turning CO2 Into Industrial Use Chemicals Is Good Solution

One of the funniest things today is how people become totally ideological around nearly any topic.  One such today is climate knowledge: there is rampant confusion abounding due to people taking various stances and then twisting or ignoring incoming data to make their point of views the only point of view.  Is there warming or not?  What causes it?  Why do we have Ice Ages?

A mere 200 years ago, people went merrily about their lives thinking the world was always the same since God created Adam and Eve minus a flood or two.  The present status quo of all nature at that time was forever.  Or rather, until this same god destroyed it all yet again in a fit of rage.


This certainty has collapsed when naturalists proposed that the earth was more than a billion years old and life evolved over that time from simple amino acids and complex molecules to what it is today.   The idea that the earth has had very violent changes not only in climate and life forms but in my own lifetime, geologists figured out that the earth’s crust is extremely mobile and amazingly fluid and has shifted and changed very violently over the last billion years.


And continues to change today!  When I look at these debates, I am amused as to how nearly everyone imagines that the present status quo is the best and the only debate is how to keep it going forever and to stop evolution, stop plate tectonic movements and above all, stop the sun from changing things.


The tragedy here is, everything we do makes evolution work faster and faster, we can’t stop geology at all and are helpless when it comes to the great geological forces of plate tectonics and above all, we have zero power over the sun.  We cannot control it.  We can increase the cloud/dust cover of the planet to make it colder, for example.  But the sun gets to be either hotter or colder quite capriciously and we have no way of stopping this or encouraging this.


First in the news:  US court upholds agency’s global warming rules.  Pollution rules are generally good.  Finding good ways to avoid polluting the earth or destroying the environment is also good.  How we set this up is where questions arise.  Mainly, the US and EU have simply exported pollution by relocating factories in China and the third world.  Then we can complain about them polluting the planet.


I found this blog at the Weather Underground that mocks the constant badgering of global warming alarmists:  SebastianJer : Prediction: Global Warming Will Cause Everything | Weather Underground


The corresponding article begins this way:


Another effect of climate change may be crawling up your leg this summer as you frolic in the woods.


Scientists say our warming world is speeding the spread of ticks that carry potentially debilitating Lyme disease.


Okay, given that many in the climate change fraternity — including, famously, Phil Jones of East Anglia University — have been forced to concede that global warming has been on “pause” since 1995, how exactly is it “speeding the spread” of disease-carrying ticks?


Don’t read this news article for an answer. In fact, from the third paragraph on, the article is a straightforward discussion of the slow spread of the tick population into various southern regions of Canada, and the new risk of Lyme disease that this brings. There is no further mention of global warming, and no attempt is made to establish a significant relationship — or even a coincidental one — between the movements of the ticks and changes in mean annual temperatures in the relevant regions.


So why mention global warming in this context at all? Because the first rule of all modern discourse related to weather, disease, happiness, poverty, famine, wildlife, or almost anything else is that tribute must be paid to the god Climate Change Theory.


This is most certainly true.  I was watching a harmless Imax movie about the oceans in the southern Pacific and how the coral reefs there exist.  After talking briefly about how these reefs were totally exposed to the air and rendered lifeless during the long, hard Ice Ages over and over again, the narrator goes on to talk about how the warmer climate brought them back to life again.


And then begins this long, much longer whining about how the warm seas are killing the coral reefs!  They then show a dead coral reef.  But what is killing them is other forms of pollution that acid rain creates.  Acid rain IS bad.  And this is why scrubbers were put on coal plant chimneys.


The NYT has an interesting article about new solutions for industrial pollution including CO2:  Seeking a Profitable Place to Put Captured Carbon – NYTimes.com


ConocoPhillips, BP, Northwater Capital and PVS Chemicals will eventually invest $35 million, according to the project’s builder, the Skyonic Corporation of Austin, Tex. Commercial operation is expected to begin in 2014…The flue gases react with rock salt, which provides sodium and chlorine to bind with the carbon.

According to Skyonic, the plant will capture 83,000 tons a year, and the bicarbonate market amounts to about a million tons a year. Some coal-fired power plants could use the bicarbonate in their pollution control systems to scrub sulfur out of exhaust gases, he said.

While the plant will directly capture 83,000 tons, it will take credit for putting another 220,000 tons out of commission because, with the venture in operation, industries will not have to make those chemicals from the sources they use now.


If this works out, it is a good thing.  This is how we should operate if we want to conserve anything. Conservation is a tricky business: if one is careful today, someone else just might come along and simply destroy whatever one has worked so hard to conserve!


This same NYT blogger who lives right next to some of eastern America’s greatest and ever-bigger forests, is terrified that forests are disappearing:


When the smoke finally clears and new plant life pokes up from the scorched earth after the wildfires raging in the southern Rockies, what emerges will look radically different than what was there just a few weeks ago. According to Craig Allen, a research ecologist with the United States Geological Survey in Los Alamos, N.M., forests in the region have not been regenerating after the vast wildfires that have been raging for the last decade and a half.


Dr. Allen, who runs the Jemez Mountains Field Station at Bandelier National Monument, says those forests are burning into oblivion and grasslands and shrub lands are taking their place. “Rising temperature is going to drive our forests off the mountains,” he said.


Here is a typical example of ‘End of Times!’ thinking on the environmentalist side.  Anyone who knows the climate history of the Rocky Mountains and Arizona and all that knows that terrible, 100-500 year droughts have ravaged the region over and over again over the eons.


At one point, for example, the mountains surrounding Tucson, Arizona, were so denuded of trees, only a handful survived in the deep valleys at the summit if Mt. Lemmon.  The forests in the West have come and gone over and over again.  And each time Yellowstone blows sky high, not only are the forests eliminated suddenly, this also restarts the Ice Ages over again.


The hot/dry/cold/wet cycles have many variations and over time, happen more or less as the many conflicting elements that make our climate undergo various changes due to fluid conditions.  The sea level has shifted wildly over time over the last billion years as it is highly changeable as well as the issue of tsunamis and asteroid strikes hitting the oceans create huge changes in geology, life forms and climate.


Here is a blog mocking the recent news story about the ocean rising in only one place on this continent:  Peer Review To Be Underwater By The Year 2008 | Real Science

I am glad for the map: it shows clearly that the West Coast is RISING while the East Coast, where last year’s earthquake shook everyone up so badly, is subsiding!  Canada is safe and not subsiding so they don’t have to worry about high tides any time soon any more than California surfer dudes.


I found this research site that talks about global warming and I find this rather sadly amusing:  Ice Age Research | Catlin Arctic Survey


Officially, the earth has been in an interglacial, or warmer period, for the last 10,000 to 15,000 years, and estimates vary on how long such periods last.


(Analysis) suggests that the end of the current interglacial (period) would occur within the next 1,500 years, if atmospheric CO2 concentrations do not exceed (around) 240 parts per million by volume (ppmv),” the study said.


However, the current carbon dioxide concentration is of 390 ppmv, and at that level an increase in the volume of ice sheets would not be possible, it added.


Sounds like good news!  No one knows when or how long our brief interglacials last.  We can guess that they all END the same way: suddenly and with lots of ice destroying the environment pretty severely.  Right now, I have hummingbirds in my flower gardens. During Ice Ages, this is all under a literal mile of ice.


Here is another story from the same scientists praising this TV nature show that wants us to be nostalgic for the good old days when giant cave bears and mastodons roamed the tundra of Kansas:  BBC’s Frozen Planet | Catlin Arctic Survey


The causes of ice ages are not fully understood but concentrations of methane and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, changes in the earth’s orbit around the sun, and the movement of tectonic plates are all thought to contribute.


Note how these scientists blogging about their Arctic research do not mention the sun itself!  This is what enrages a number of solar scientists.  They are all for spreading solar panels onto all houses.  They love solar power!  My grandfather loved solar power so much, when he was building Mt. Palomar and Mt. Wilson observatories, he rigged up a solar cooker for the work crews.


Way back in 1910, he and Dr. Hubble both studied the sun and proposed it was responsible for the Ice Ages and this meant the sun was NOT stable nor eternal but CHANGES.  This scary thought made so much unease, few scientists wanted to even talk about it.  I grew up hearing grandpa talk rather gleefully about this.  So maybe this is why I support the idea so strongly.  Back to the Arctic researchers:


The world is forecast to grow hotter as greenhouse gases continue to rise, increasing threats such as extreme weather events and sea level rise.


Scientists have warned that global temperature rise should be limited to within 2 degrees Celsius to avoid the worst effects of climate change but delays in curbing emissions growth are putting the planet at risk.


After they admit no one knows why Ice Ages happen, after than say there is a great deal of confusion about all this, they resume the propaganda story that we are all going to roast to death.  I fear nuclear war and the destruction of all the nuclear power plants in this manic war and everyone else is focused on getting somewhat warmer as being our doom.  Good lord!  How many polar bears will survive WWIII, we might ask?  How many penguins?  Will they be the only survivors?


Who knows.  All I know is, humans have 100% control over this issue which is probably why it is being so studiously ignored.sunset borger

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Filed under evolution, nature, weather news

4 responses to “Turning CO2 Into Industrial Use Chemicals Is Good Solution

  1. larry, dfh

    From the Skyonic website:
    SkyMiine® also produces green chemicals, such as hydrochloric acid, bleach, chlorine, and hydrogen, which are also profitable and can replace less environmentally-friendly products in market.
    Hon, there’s almost NOTHING less environmentally friendly than Chlorine, not to mention hydrochloric acid and bleach. This company seems very suspicious to me. Is T. Boone Pickens involved?
    For one thing: CO2 + NaCl does NOT go to ClCO2Na, which is the equivalent of Phosgene, and CO2 + NaCl + H2O does NOT go to NaHCO3 (baking soda) + HCl, at least not that I’m aware of. They are basically taking neutral compounds and breaking them into their corresponding acids and bases, which is backwards from the way things work energetically. Now, at ‘coal fired flue gas’ temperatures, maybe such things are possible, after all, they’re hot enough to make NOx. But the whole reason to use coal is for the BTUs, and if you’re not going to recover as much heat as possible, then you might as well burn rubbish. It sounds like a very fishy operation. I would have expected a little more in-depth article from the Environment section of the NYT. I think the only smoke they’re sequestering is up the investors’ asses.

  2. CK

    People who actually know chemistry are usually terrorists or at the least suspect. You ignore the magic.

  3. Mr Bill

    larry, dfh

    I basically agree with your last comments. It does seem to be fishy. I am not ready to write the SkyMiine® process off yet, but it does appear to smell as fishy as the earlier Solyndra fiasco. It appears on the surface, that someone is trying hard to use the current media hype about that bad old CO2 emmission impact on our climate to press forward with a new shaky program to be funded by good guys in their white hats.

    First off, the Skyonic website implies their new process will “capture” CO2 from flue gases in power plants and other industrial plants and mineralize the CO2 into useful marketable green products. This is a great idea. But, it is already in full practice all over the world. I can.t say how Skyonic will be different, but power plants and other industrial plants can currently use “scrubber” processes to scrub the CO2, SOx, NOx, etc from their flue gas. In most cases, the recovered stuff is a mixture of solid material that is dumped into landfills. There is currently minimum effort to recover any marketable products. Further, these “scrubber” system addons are expensive to install and operate. So, many plants choose to not install scrubber systems unless they are forced to comply. So, what does Skyonics bring to the table?

    Second, when I see rock salt and chlorine used in the same sentence, I think of the process to convert sodium chloride (rock salt) into sodium hydroxide and chlorine. The Skyonics talk about reacting CO2 and rock salt, they are blowing smoke. The CO2 has nothing to do with the salt except as a source for sodium hydroxide. The chlorine is a byproduct that thet undoubtably plan to convery to hydrochloric acid, bleach, etc. There can be some hydrogen involved, but I cannot imagine a facility like Skyonoc proposed is serious about making hydrogen commercially. The products they propose from chlorine are not particularly “green”. It tends to produce bad juju materials that are corrosive and can be very damaging.

    Third, the “mineral type” materials are the bicarbonates, carbonate, sulfates, etc sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), bicarbonate (soda ash), in common product, while sodium ca.rbonate, calcium sulfate (gypsum) , and other solids are used in building materials. All of these are commodity materials. They are currently marketed and manufactured all over the world. While it may be feasible to recover the CO2 from many commercial plants, why start as a small player in a commody world?

  4. JT

    “The $125 million project, to be built in San Antonio with the aid of federal grants totaling $28 million, is intended to turn a profit through sales of sodium bicarbonate, hydrochloric acid and caustic soda. ”

    That is not good.
    It is a terrible misinvestment.

    Only if they capture something toxic you benefit (the sulfur).
    CO2 is natural and harms no-one.

    You give 28 million to these guys (for CO2) so they can sell this stuff with profit to the guys trying to clean the sulfur?
    Why not give the money for the plant investing in sulfur cleaning?

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