Computers Versus Humans: Asimov’s Nightmare World, Solaria

Robot Eye 

My father knew Issac Asimov and I grew up reading his books as they were published. A prolific author with an amazing imagination, he dared to go where no one has gone before him.  Namely, he figured out many things both good and bad, about technology and human psychology.  He grew more and more pessimistic as our computer revolution proceeded.  This foresight he had was based on his ability to ‘live’ in the future which I greatly admire.  It is a skill akin to Time Lord Tardis travel.  Funny, I also dated one of the Masters and knew one of the Time Lords in real life, isn’t that odd?  Coincidences are common when one lives in the odd world of the Planetary Overlords, aka, the Bilderberg gang.

 

In my misspent youth, I often wondered about why I met so many odd, famous people.  It wasn’t because I was seeking them all out, we just…ran into each other over and over again and this was because I was inside this weird bubble created during WWII which was in the process of running the planet unsuccessfully.

 

I didn’t meet the world’s biggest first computer complex accidentally, my father took me there.  This is because he would only work with my mother next to him so she was always with him no matter where he went and she took us kids along for the ride all the time so we were where he was and he was where nuclear bombs, rockets, computer technology and WWIII plans were and I grew up inside the WWIII system it is ‘in my blood’ and part of my earliest memories.

 

When I first wrote to Issac because I wanted him to know he was writing a book about my life, so to speak, we got to know each other and he wanted to know my father and they became friendly.  When Issac wrote about the final fate of Solaria (extinction of humans there) he and I were very depressed by this.  He wanted the robots to be good.  Then he began to see them as superior, even god-like and then saw what would happen next.  And this storyline so disturbed people that people like Lucas, when making his Star Wars universe, wanted to defy Asimov’s predictions and he made robots…good again.  In his first movie, that is.

 

Only Darth Vader is half robot and thus, heartless.  As Lucas got more and more money to make more Star Wars movies, it became darker and darker when he made movies about the pre-Star Wars worlds.  They were more advanced in robot power than the first three movies.

 

The robots were many and the humans were turned into insane monsters and it drove Darth Vader insane and when he became half robot, he became utterly heartless and power hungry.  Sigh.  As these movies progressed, Lucas went crazier and crazier and retreated more and more and finally sold his franchise because he couldn’t take it all anymore.  All he could see was Darkness, not Hope.

 

A review about what Solaria is and why it made Asimov very depressed:

 

Solaria was the last of fifty Spacer worlds colonized by humans in the first wave of interstellar settlement, occupied from approximately 4627 AD by inhabitants of the neighboring world Nexon originally for summer homes. It was ruled by a Regent after it became independent around roughly 4727 AD. The Solarians specialized in the construction of robots, which they exported to the other Spacer Worlds. Solarian robots were noted for their variety and excellence. They also exported their grain, which was used to make a pastry known as the pachinka.

 

Ultimately, Solaria became totally dependent on robot labor; roughly 10,000 robots existed for every human. The world was extremely sparsely inhabited, with only 20,000 humans (and 200 million robots) inhabiting 30 million miles² (78 million km²) of fertile land, divided into over 10,000 huge estates (the exact number is unknown, since some of the estates were inhabited by couples). The population was kept stable through strict birth and immigration controls. In the era of Robots and Empire, no more than five thousand Solarians were known to remain. 20,000 years later, the population was 1200—one human per estate.

 

All tools change human evolution and thinking processes. This has been true since the first humanoid picked up a rock and then altered it so that it was shaped differently, via hitting one rock with another rock. Ditto, fire. Once it was learned that rocks can create fire which was an amazing discovery by the first human that did this trick…evolution of humans changed radically.

 

We lost most of our fur, for example. All technological changes has an impact on the human evolution and this definitely is continuing today.

 

The EU/North American/Japan tech systems is the longest running computer driven cultures and all are literally dying off (no children) and being invaded by non-computer driven people who have a lower IQ and little interest in keeping this culture running, they want to destroy it (think: Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and how alien barbarians destroyed it).

 

These systems created in Europe, Japan and the US are taking over all systems and the computer systems operators can see this coming and want to stop it only they can’t because the humans serving the computers are suicidal, it appears.  The system owners get filthy rich doing this and more and more socially isolated so they don’t see the downside…so far!  Delusional about the downside, they are sitting ducks for destruction from within.

 

Computers vs. Children – Geek.com published this story in 2000:

 

 As children use computers more and more both in school and at home, there is renewed concern that playing video games and using computers too often will hurt them both mentally and physically.

 

Video games are still criticized (though still without real proof from studies) for promoting aggressive behavior in children, but now the concern has also shifted to the fact that they can be addictive. that addiction then leads to “compulsive behaviour, loss of interest in other activities, association mainly with other addicts, and unusual symptoms when addicts are denied their favourite pastime.” some experts also say that the more sophisticated games of today that require complex skills, dexterity, and thought/strategy are psychologically rewarding, which leads to further addiction. this dependency could lead to more traditional problems, like skipping school, stealing money (to buy games and equipment), and blowing off homework.

 

Recent studies show that children start playing video games around 7-years-old, and a uk study of early teens showed that almost 33% played games daily, with 7% playing at least 30 hours a week. that kind of time (and less) can lead to posture problems and repetitive strain injury (rsi) in the neck, back, and elsewhere, especially in children, whose bodies are still growing. youngsters nowadays are part of the first generation using computers from early childhood, and using them in schools with non-adjustable chairs and single-size mouses and keyboards and then sitting at computers adjusted for parents at home are causing an increasing number of kids to complain about computer-related injuries. there are already employment lawyers and human rights folks who say that schools might be sued if non-ergonomic computer facilities continue to cause rsi problems in children.

 

I had two children and one was born with some issues we see in geek children.  Loved video games and was in special ed but is extremely intelligent, high IQ.  Back in the 1980’s this child of mine was the computer expert in her first grade school, she dealt with the problems the adults had, interfacing with computers.

 

She was raised on the internet because I have been online since it was created.  Unlike me, being born into the System, she swam around it like a duck on a lake.  I had to use a paddle and a boat to get around.  It was most odd, actually.  At the same time, this child was socially  inept.  To keep her socialized, I had two computers and did my work next to her and watched her and talked about what the computers were doing, etc.  Socialized, that is, was highly important.

 

Guess what?  She works with computers as a living today.  Better still, she knows she has to work at socializing and does rather well with this, thank goodness.  But it is a serious problem as tech people marry tech people.

 

My family was ‘tech people’ in the 19th century, my grandmother was one of the very first women on earth to go to a men’s university and got a degree in the sciences, too.  Married a scientist.  Then my scientist father married my scientist mother and had 7 children and we are all various degrees insane on the scale of ‘scary genius insane’.

 

I am lucky.  I was doing the most insane stuff on earth and running riot across several continents and was a known ‘child genius’ of the worst, most annoying sort until I hit this brick wall and had a 105+ fever for three days and nights and lost my mind and had to learn to read and write all over again and didn’t even know who I was or anything…and my IQ dropped to a sane level and I shudder to think what would have happened if I didn’t have this event.

 

High IQs are very dangerous.  My grandfather knew Einstein and Hubble.  They hung out together.  All of them were nutty.  I thought this was normal, when young.  The maladjustments of super smart people is invisible to themselves, they think this is normal.  But it isn’t normal at all.  And it is highly dangerous to humanity and themselves.  Think: who created nuclear bombs!

 

From 2001:  The Geek Syndrome | WIRED

 

 Nick is building a universe on his computer. He’s already mapped out his first planet: an anvil-shaped world called Denthaim that is home to gnomes and gods, along with a three-gendered race known as kiman. As he tells me about his universe, Nick looks up at the ceiling, humming fragments of a melody over and over. “I’m thinking of making magic a form of quantum physics, but I haven’t decided yet, actually,” he explains. The music of his speech is pitched high, alternately poetic and pedantic – as if the soul of an Oxford don has been awkwardly reincarnated in the body of a chubby, rosy-cheeked boy from Silicon Valley. Nick is 11 years old.

 

When I was 11, I discovered I would spy on the world via short wave radio and then began doing really dangerous stuff because of what I found out this way.  I have some nervous ticks, I rock, for example.  I can’t sit in a chair without wanting to rock.  My parents bought half a dozen rocking chairs for us kids.  I assigned one to myself and used it when doing nearly anything.  My office chair to this day, rocks.

 

See how crazy we are?  I had to be taught how to talk.  Had my first lessons when only 2 1/2 years old.  One of my teachers was a young student whose name was Carl Sagan who was a student of my father at Yerkes Observatory.  He was delightfully nutty and we got along great.

 

He, too, had to figure out how to talk in human language and my father figured he could enlighten me, too, which is why he was my ‘teacher’.  I would hang out at the observatory with him.  My father even said, when the faculty met to discuss what to do with Carl (some didn’t want to give him his degree!) my father said, ‘He is the only one of us who can explain physics to the rest of humanity, he can do what we can’t do…communicate’ and so they voted to give him his degree and he and my dad were close all the way until death parted them both.

 

Carl was a friendly messed up brainiac.  That is, he loved being friends.  I remember him like a puppy dog would remember a very kind dog trainer.  I just told my husband one of the words Carl taught me was ‘Pegasus’ and I couldn’t say it.  He had me work and work on saying that word and it is one of the deeper words impressed on my mind aside from ‘flip’ which is another ‘p’ word he made me learn to speak properly.

 

In the past decade, there has been a significant surge in the number of kids diagnosed with autism throughout California. In August 1993, there were 4,911 cases of so-called level-one autism logged in the state’s Department of Developmental Services client-management system. This figure doesn’t include kids with Asperger’s syndrome, like Nick, but only those who have received a diagnosis of classic autism. In the mid-’90s, this caseload started spiraling up. In 1999, the number of clients was more than double what it had been six years earlier. Then the curve started spiking. By July 2001, there were 15,441 clients in the DDS database. Now there are more than seven new cases of level-one autism – 85 percent of them children – entering the system every day.

 

Inside my own family, the range of messed up brains covered the entire spectrum.  One brother who ended up inside the DC brain systems, was the least malfunctioning one.  Another who worked on space program stuff was further out on the dysfunctional scale.  One sister of mine who is in and out of hospitals and has an extremely high IQ ended up an alien on Star Trek until she tried to smash Gene Roddenberry’s face.  Ended up in the mental ward again.

 

All this sounds like name dropping but listen: all the creative psychpaths/brainiacs in our society KNOW EACH OTHER and interact heavily in oddball ways.  This is a ‘society of weirdoes’ that goes way back in time, it began 80 years ago or so.  These people created our present culture in many ways.  We knew each other growing up and some are successful and some are not and some are hidden.  Ahem.

 

This situation is particularly bleak in Santa Clara County. Here in Silicon Valley, family support services provided by the DDS are brokered by the San Andreas Regional Center, one of 21 such centers in the state. SARC dispenses desperately needed resources (such as in-home behavioral training, educational aides, and respite care) to families in four counties. While the autistic caseload is rising in all four, the percentage of cases of classic autism among the total client population in Santa Clara County is higher enough to be worrisome, says SARC’s director, Santi Rogers.

 

This is where the computer brainiacs live.  They marry each other like in my own family for several generations.  They go crazy the same way so they think this is normal because they surround themselves with people who are the same level of craziness.

 

Even children who make significant progress require levels of day-to-day attention from their families that can best be described as heroic. Marnin Kligfeld is the founder of a software mergers-and-acquisitions firm. His wife, Margo Estrin, a doctor of internal medicine, is the daughter of Gerald Estrin, who was a mentor to many of the original architects of the Internet (see “Meet the Bellbusters,” Wired 9.11, page 164).

 

See how this works?  Like in my own family, this couple comes from tech royalty, been surrounded by this culture, are deep inside it, are extremely bright and parents were geniuses, too.  And their children are nuttier than squirrels.  Hello! That is my family!  Imagine that….yes, this is something we have to understand.  Super smart marrying super smart leads to brain damaged children.

 

When their daughter, Leah, was 3, a pediatrician at Oakland Children’s Hospital looked at her on the examining table and declared, “There is very little difference between your daughter and an animal. We have no idea what she will be able to do in the future.” After eight years of interventions – behavioral training, occupational therapy, speech therapy – Leah is a happy, upbeat 11-year-old who downloads her favorite songs by the hundreds. And she is still deeply autistic.

 

I love animals and can tame any wild creature and my entire life has been a long association with wild and domestic animals.  My 4 H project when I was a child was to breed Killer Rabbit to prove that genetics can do anything including changing a creature’s basic nature, forget fur color or size.

 

This was insane, of course, and successful, too.  Killer Rabbit made the news and became a movie icon in the Monty Python Holy Grail movie.  Killer Rabbit was quite real.  And dangerous.

 

Our government, the systems running our society, has been built by some of the craziest people on earth.  The entire computer revolution is a mountain of insanity built by crazy kids who grew up to be the strangest people on earth and now…they are freaking out because they built WWIII and know this.

 

THIS is why they all own distant islands and other sites that will supposedly survive WWIII.  This is why I bought my property and built it.  It is safe from nuclear war.  I am different from the others in that like Asimov, I spend a great deal of time warning everyone about WWIII but also about the problems with technology.

 

One of the strangest things I did in my life was live on this mountain here…in a TENT for ten years with zero modern tech, not even a toilet or running water.  ‘Carrying a pail very fast’ was my running water back then.  We had kerosene lamps for light at night.  Our refrigerator turned on around October and off around April (our joke).

 

We went hunting, raised livestock and tanned furs.  It was 100% pre-twentieth century life until my husband was brain damaged at work.  Then this all ended.  We need high tech to help him survive.  So we returned to the 21st century.  Computers keep my husband alive!

 

I have very mixed feelings about technology.  This is obvious.  There are things to fear about having elites marry each other.  Royalty produced some of the most brain damaged people on earth and still does due to marrying only each other.  The tech royals are doing this in spades.  It doesn’t matter if a smart person of one type marries another: after three generations of this, the children will be born with many mental problems due to being ‘too smart’ for their own good.

 

I remember my childhood: I could hear crickets breathing.  I could hear the tiniest sounds.  It drove me NUTS.  I would get out of bed and seek out the noise and try to stop it.  When I read Poe’s poem about ‘Bells’ I laughed hysterically.  The BELLS!!!!  ARRRGH.  Then, I told my mother, that poem freaked me out.

 

She said, ‘Of course it would, it was written by one of my mother’s cousin’s child, Edgar.’  YIKES.  As I said, in the past, the US was much smaller and many of us are interrelated in weird ways if one’s family past is people who came over here over 300 years ago.  It is scary how interrelated we all are.  All heavily interrelated people develop mental issues.

 

This leads to a scary thought: we know now that there was this great catastrophe during the last Ice Age.  Suddenly, all the humans on earth except for a few in Africa, were killed.  This event was like several previous Ice Age events that killed off most humanoids who had spread all the way to China and Europe as well as Africa and even Australia and then boom!  Most die and the survivors are greatly changed (evolve yet again!).

 

Each cycle of elimination, the survivors had bigger brains, over and over again.  Small brains died, big brains survived.  Chimpanzee and Gorilla brains barely changed.  Our brains did.  Why is that?  I would suggest this fact: we lost our fur.  We were naked apes and sudden cold cycles that lasted very long, ruthlessly eliminated the less clever naked apes!

 

Our very first ‘technology’ was fire.  And many myths are told about the fire business, all of these assume that the Gods are mad at humans for creating fire and that fire made us kind of like gods and all that…all the way back to two Ice Ages ago, we began to walk towards bigger brains/more inventions and this was due to trying to survive Ice Ages.

45 Comments

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45 responses to “Computers Versus Humans: Asimov’s Nightmare World, Solaria

  1. Jim R

    Asimov also wrote real science books.

    When I was a youngster, we read his book about DNA in school. How it codes for proteins, and how it makes copies of itself.

    When Asimov wrote that book, DNA was an all-new discovery, it wasn’t too many years since Watson and Crick figured out its structure. They know a lot more details about it now, but Asimov’s book is still a good introduction.

  2. Melponeme_k

    “He wanted the robots to be good.”

    How can anything be good when it is not built by good people? We have been turned into a materialist society. This was done by design because the powers that be are Luciferians. Materialism is their religion. Elaine, they don’t plan to ever leave this earth. They know there is more out there. They deliberately hide real science and real spirituality from us in order to drag us down into their Social Darwinist hell. This is a hell. The Gnostics weren’t too far wrong.

    Computers are their key for living like Koschei the Deathless. I think Asimov knew this already because I remember reading one of his short stories about rich people who benefited from life longevity science. It was a vicious little story about a super rich, old, old, old man who tortured and controlled his family because they wanted his money and he would not die. That is Luciferianism in a nutshell.

    I’m truly surprised that Asimov remained a Atheist. Atheism is materialism.
    It is part and parcel of the Elite Luciferian religion. Except that they KNOW the spiritual aspect. But they cut that out for the little people.

    I’ve researched the major religions when I was young. I’ve done atheism. But none of those were it. There is something else, something more. Something outside this prison. It is our duty to get free from the elites, to stop being their puppets.

  3. Elaine…curious why your father wanted your mother by his side all the time at work?

  4. Fred Mrozek

    Elaine, have you read By The Numbers, an Asimov short story that was published in the Joe Haldeman anthology Study War No More ?

  5. After my father came back from the nightmare of the Nazi rocket caves…while inside he said he asked God to save him and he would marry my mother so when he came back, very emotionally damaged, he clung to my mother as his life raft. He isn’t, by far, the only man to do this. I know of quite a few who did this to various degrees.

  6. Gurrker

    In my long life (I am older than Elaine by a bit) I have pondered the timeless question of the purpose/meaning of life. This is a crowded pastime. Of course this produces more questions than answers. Is life reflective of the nature of our universe, a force that is integrative and anti-entropic? Is the appearance of intelligence and self awareness over a long evolutionary time scale random or is it inevitable? Is humanity a manifestation of the universe becoming aware of itself and are we unique or commonplace in our vast universe? One of the conceits mankind embraces is that we are somehow a finished product. How could this be true? Can self awareness be a quality of something not biological in origin? I have long suspected that mankind’s gods reflect the ultimate potential of what the awakening of self awareness holds. What says that non biological (machine) awareness cannot be a further step in this evolution? The Asimov link I posted yesterday explores some of these questions. Arthur C Clarke did as well in Childhood’s End.

  7. Christian W

    @ Elaine

    I see. That is why your father won the bed fight against Madame Mao. He couldn’t, and wouldn’t, be separated from his wife. It was a moral victory for human decency but also one born out of necessity.

  8. Melponeme_k

    Meanwhile in glorious A.I. land, the robot prepares to CLEAN! Think of all the data it has on houses. A virtual library of congress in its electronic brain of floors! It can calculate the cleaning time of any surface! It plans schedules! It can always dust…at least until its battery runs out. No homemaker (male or female) could ever hope to compete!

    And it takes orders from CATS. CATS I TELL YOU!

  9. I must add here, I love reading everyone’s comments. Thank you, all.

  10. Claudeeyah

    Each cycle of elimination, the survivors had bigger brains, over and over again. Small brains died, big brains survived. Chimpanzee and Gorilla brains barely changed. Our brains did. Why is that? I would suggest this fact: we lost our fur. We were naked apes and sudden cold cycles that lasted very long, ruthlessly eliminated the less clever naked apes!

    *******

    Interesting theory, and you may be correct. Except for one thing: Africans have much less body hair than Caucasians, yet they are among the dimmest, least intelligent bipedal homo sapiens around. Always have been and always will be, at least until enough of them intermarry with Caucasians to register some positive IQ points. And that day may yet come. It is highly doubtful to be realized in my (or your) lifetime.

  11. Jim R

    It’s totally un-PC to say this, but Africans did not have the selective pressures that the Northern Europeans and Northern Asians had.

    They did not need to store firewood, or be particularly clever with tools.

    Much like almost all of humanity today, they were not selected for planning ability. Storytelling, singing, dancing, those were useful in finding a mate — but having a shed full of firewood and knowing how to skin a bear were unimportant traits in Africa.

  12. Jim R

    As for losing our fur, I think that was a sexual-selection trait. Like the peacock’s tail.

    For most humans, the thought of a mate with a lot of body hair evokes a kind of “Ewww!” reaction. I suppose there are a few kinky individuals, there always are … but I think that’s why we do not have fur.

  13. tio

    ‘Cause I’m a model, you know what I mean
    And I do my little turn on the catwalk
    Yeah, on the catwalk
    On the catwalk, yeah
    I shake my little tush on the catwalk

    Graecopithecus freybergi
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/05/22/europe-birthplace-mankind-not-africa-scientists-find/

  14. Irving

    The Urantia Papers address so much of this…and I know a percentage of the wild brains types study it…you’d think they’d all be aware. It chronicles the first truly human thought, which caused this planet to be registered as inhabited by creatures of will dignity. This descision was to leave their inferior progenitors in an attempt to not have their children mate with them. Shortly thereafter they discovered how to create fire, using flint and birdsnests. That’s a nice story also. We are a reflection of the universe, however our evolution (the sacred technique of diety) is not over. We must now be more self directive in this…more carefull choosing of mates, genetic engineering. And the papers do mention that breeding geniouses
    gives an unstable result. Enough geniouses will come from simply breeding strong normal types. All races have wonderfull people and also a bottom end that should not reproduce. Anyhoo…

  15. Lou

    Rocket caves? tell me more.

    As far as the ‘Race, IQ, Evolution’ debate goes, ‘The Bell Curve’ is a good place to start but the book does not explain WHY IQs are different.
    [Cold Weather?]

    No, IQ tests do not have ‘cultural bias,’ that was nonsense / propaganda my Jewish psychology teacher offered.

    Also few writers want to look at the relation between Testosterone levels and violent behavior.

  16. Seraphim

    Why are we striving to bring about a world from where humans disappeared?

  17. Jim R

    Lou, that’s sort of a well known bit of WWII history.

    The allies were bombing Hitler’s industrial sites, but his missile program, I think the name of the place was Penemunde [sp?], was all done in underground tunnels.

    The first generation of Hitler’s rockets caused plenty of chaos over in England, but he was about to roll out his V-2 when the war ended.

    They were working prisoners to death in those tunnels, in a factory making missile parts.

  18. Jim R

    Correction:
    Hitler moved the missile factory to a more central location:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordhausen#1900_to_present

    Both Peenemunde and Nordhausen ended up in East Germany, so they must have been dangerous places to be sneaking around at the end of the war, swarming with Red Army troops and etc..

  19. Dennis Roe

    Elaine, love the way you come in swinging. The weird odd coincidences, the crazy family bullshit, the world dumping a pile of crap on your head, you jump up and say I’ll punch in your face, motherfucker. You rock darling, keep fightin the good fight.

  20. The Russian Army blew up the power plant as my father was collecting the plans inside the central part of the caves. This was outside Jena, not the caves on the coastal region. There were several rocket places. This one was the design part.

  21. Lou

    17- Why are we striving to bring about a world from where humans disappeared? ‘WE’ are the very rich. they have the power. With robots, they dont need many people.
    See, Georgia Guidestones and the OPEN statement from CFR on desired world population.
    let me know yr thoughts.

  22. Seraphim

    It is a plausible explanation. But then why so many people among the rich want to become cyborgs? They want to be ‘immortal’.
    “Immortalism, a moral ideology based upon the belief that radical life extension and technological immortality is possible and desirable, and advocating research and development to ensure its realization”.
    The simple thought of the untenable boredom that such a life would offer you has inspired the ardent desire to escape from the horrible punishment of endless ‘reincarnations’.

  23. They all want to be Darth Vader.

  24. Moe

    @2 Melponeme_k

    Lots of interesting comments here, but I find most resonance with Meloneme’s observations.

    I don’t believe AI is ultimately the threat commonly extrapolated in the doom scenarios painted by Assimov, etc, unless it is purposely utilized in this fashion (which is precisely what Meoneme suggests is happening). Humans must retain ultimate control and have backup resources to enable ‘pulling the plug’ when necessary. We cannot turn our entire civilization’s systems or resource control over to AI.

    It is also an error to anthropomorphize AI such as done with HAL.These are machines, there is no grey area where they attain or retain human characteristics except those we program. Detachment, control, limited application and compartmentalization are necessary. Extensive application will render our systems fragile and vulnerable. (Check out the many hacker attacks and extrapolate those into a life supporting environment such as the electrical distribution system or even locally, a hospital),

    A related concern of mine is the addictional overuse of smart phones by the most recent two generations with attendant isolation and, desocialization, I also discern in these generations a callous dissociation that finds expression in apathy, tribalism, and antipathy for conventional and historical social norms, though I don’t know if there is a correlation there.To put it more succinctly, if the survival of civilization was dependent on the last two generations of North Americans, we’re freakin’ doomed. Fortunately, I don’t believe that to be the case.

    Coming back to Meloneme’s comments (paraphrasing): evil f*ckers rule this world and it is their intended application of AI that must be thwarted. How? Dunno. Perhaps the best thing that could happen is a series of major AI or web based system interruptions/failures that have huge negative consequences that alert populations to the dangers of reliance on these systems.

  25. Jim R

    Moe, I concur. Melponeme really hit the nail on the head in #2.

    It’s a matter of who is in control of the network, and the ‘deep state’ is now heavily infested with psychopaths. When the internet was simply run by nerdy anarchists, it worked just fine, but now it’s getting serious…

  26. Melponeme_k

    @Moe

    I’m not against “motivated” computer systems. I call it “motivated” because it is based on programming that will take in stray factors but ALWAYS try to bring it back to its first rule. The initial program, given to it by HUMANS, that is its golden scale, its first rule for the ALL. A computer will never make independent judgments. It has its golden scale (the first program) that it deems correct and will base all its “decisions” by it. This is why in games, the computer will always seek to implement its golden scale, forcing the player to accommodate it.

    Everyone must realize THIS IS PSYCHOLOGICAL MIND CONTROL voodoo. Nothing more and nothing less.

    Why?

    Because tech heads and many regular Joes LIKE the idea of A.I. They find it fascinating just as much as they find the ideas of Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings in fiction fascinating. A.I. is a fictional belief just like Harry Potter.

    Maybe given time, everyone will come around to the idea of AI being fantasy. However time is something we don’t have. The elite (along with their tech head helpmates) are pushing the notion of AI hard. As long as we still have some semblance of a society, some civilization, some ability to traverse social situations and connect with one another…the elites will never be in control. They want control and they also want most of us gone. So each jump in electronic advances is focused upon breaking up our society and killing civilization.

    TV was the first weapon. It destroyed the notion of family time. Instead of sitting and talking with one another, everyone zombified in front of a screen.

    The TV took the place of the parent in teaching social mores. Leading to the materialist and over sexual culture we have now.

    The next major jump was video game machines. This separated children from parents even further.

    Computers began to isolate EVERYONE from one another.

    The last game play are the motivated systems masquerading as the AI fantasy. They will disassociate us from our environment from our jobs, our hobbies, everything. TOTAL control. And we will give up everything because most of us will believe and want to believe that AI is better, smarter and a new “life” form. Our possible fall will be because WE decided to fall. Because we accept the elite lies and make them flesh.

  27. Melponeme_k

    Going back to why I’m not against “motivated” systems.

    Like all tools, they can be helpful. BUT we must stop all this AI scam operation that the elites want to push on us.

    WE have to control the systems. WE have to take control of the narrative.

    One big step is to fight the AI cover story when speaking to family, friends and online acquaintances. To point out the inconsistencies.

    There is not one example of “AI” that didn’t involve cheating on the part of the tech heads. NOT ONE. Think about it.

  28. ziff

    one reason for this AI nonsense, got to sell those robot cars with a ‘human? ‘ brain.

  29. I just found out that Alpha1 versus itself is quite revealing. I was correct about it liking 5 in a row straight lines…amusing watching it fight itself.

  30. Melponeme_k

    Years and years ago when they began with this AI scam, they released proto “motivated” systems as children’s toys.

    Remember the robot chicken that played tic tac toe? It looked cute on Christmas day but it didn’t have a fun factor that lasted past New Year’s Day. Because after playing against it, losing a few then realizing the chicken only wanted to do ONE MOVE, the kid player gave up playing a game and only counter moved the chicken. This meant that there was no winning or losing a game. This turned the game into a nullity.

    And this has been repeated on larger and larger scales. But the chicken remains the same.

    If Go and Chess players gave up strategy and just counter moved, the game would go on forever or end when there are no more moves to be made. All games now are meaningless.

    This is DELIBERATE people. DELIBERATE. The ones in control want to destroy us, to break our spirit.

    Please understand the “motivated” systems must be directed to be useful and helpful. But they are WORTHLESS as intelligence. They are also WORTHLESS as hazard workers as well. They can’t even withstand a hint of radiation to get near Fukushima but human workers labor in the vicinity day after day.

    We are the highest example of creation both natural and supernatural. Don’t let anyone, certainly not an autistic techie, tell you otherwise.

    ΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: BINGO. I guess I should give you a reward of some sort…not like the Olympic medals that are rotting away one year after the Brazil games…! You did hit this on the nail, big time.

  31. Jim R

    More significantly, the Deere company claims the exclusive right to control the computers they put in farmers’ tractors. Farmers are not allowed to ‘drive’ them.

    Modern farm equipment is as sophisticated as the space vehicles that explore other planets. And even though the farmer paid Deere $100,000s they do not ‘own’ the thing.

    I think that one is still in the ‘intellectual property’ courts. Which by the way, are the same courts that served as an excuse for the extraterritorial extrajudicial raid on Kim Dotcom. . .

  32. All very good, thoughtful comments and now I have the AlphaGo versus itself story up…

  33. Melponeme_k

    Aww, I don’t need a reward. Most of my ideas are picked carefully from smarter people than I am.

    You talk about insanity of the super intelligent, the super left brain side. Have you ever experienced the insanity of the super right brained?

    I suffer from that side. I’ve been hyper-sensitive. I’ve grown up knowing that people were motivated by momentary feelings or hormonal changes. That made them untrustworthy. So as a child I developed a hyper paranoid stance with adults. Most people don’t understand how much that interferes with social development in a way that is different and yet the SAME as autism. A hyper right side person will isolate themselves not because they can’t make connection but because they see and feel too much of others.

    At puberty, the hormones make it so much worse. Eventually leading to such states of depression, sometimes I’m amazed I got through it all. Yes, I’ve been on the edge. Eventually I learned to control it. Yes, it can be controlled and without medication. But it takes enormous amounts of mental control. But I always know I’m standing next to the abyss. I learned later that this control of emotions in magic (what the elites use) is called polarity and rhythm.

    All of this definitely interfered with school work. I was never at the top of the class. Many times I barely scraped by. Math was sheer torture. Because being crazy right brained, I was convinced that numbers were alive. That they had FEELINGS! I would work out my answers, come to the right conclusion but would always second guess. The answer is three but I put six. Because, I felt, three felt more than what it was on that day. Its crazy I know.

    I worked extra hard at the subjects I was good in because I knew there would never be huge scholarships for me. I took a view that I would always be struggling to learn and so should listen to smarter people extra carefully. But I also knew that I should test everything they said for truth. The hardest thing to learn was to admit being wrong.

    Heck even on this subject, if they somehow stumble on AI, I will say I was wrong. But after studying the subject, immersing myself in the subculture of tech and discussions with many people….I won’t hold my breath for a HAL.

  34. Jim R

    I did OK in math, eventually passing calculus in college. But in the 4th grade, I resisted and protested memorizing the multiplication table. I didn’t see the point in learning this stuff, since we had machines that can do that! (had seen the mechanical adding machines of that era).

    Now of course, I appreciate the wisdom of learning them, for that matter the wisdom of studying archery, for example, when we have guns…

    We are giving up some of our very beings when we used technology. (though I suppose I’ll keep eating regular food — I just don’t have the molars for crushing walnuts)

  35. So many points of interest here! I had a hyper left and right brain as a child and it was pure torture especially after being hit by two lightning bolts (the others were far less traumatic because I learned how to ‘catch’ and ‘send outwards’ these bolts).

    When I did math, I saw all the radiating possibilities! It flowed like crazy, drove me nuts. I loved learning how to read and analyze music because that soothed my brains a great deal so I spent a lot of time at the piano, organ, cello and assorted instruments.

    I could see how Mozart or Beethoven were compelled to make music real. They lived inside this matrix and couldn’t escape it. Mozart’s last piece was his own Requiem! (and Beethoven’s last symphony is a powerful force) which was eating them up.

    Mahler’s last two symphonies are like that, too, nearly unendurable…hell, Wagner’s last opera was long and terrifyingly grim (Parsifal).

    Why were so many composers doing this? I say, the part of the brain activated by music is also where we ‘see the future’ and where ‘the mind meets the Outerdarkness.’

    I know in my own case, music plays a gigantic role in my activities there.

  36. BTW, the Watchers love Operas. Opera means to watch. I loved operas since I was so small, I can’t remember when it began but my first firm memory was Beethoven’s Fidelio.

    I asked my mother why there was no dirt when the soprano was singing while digger her father’s grave. My mother said, ‘There is no dirt in New York City.’

    It was my mother’s first joke I remember. I really thought they only had rocks there! Was surprised to learn there is plenty of dirt, too. 🙂

  37. Moe

    For Elaine. Posting here because its an older thread and presumably will be non-interrupitve.

    Here’s an interesting article by Jim Stone on subversion of webblogs by virtue of ‘Foxacid’. If he’s correct, blog substitution would be near impossible to detect.

    HOW FOXACID WORKS

    First, Foxacid is told what web site it has to spoof. It then makes a copy of that web site on a powerful computer. Then Foxacid integrates with the DNS system, and tells the DNS servers to send everyone to the Foxacid copy. On the back end of the Foxacid copy (or whatever other NSA app it happens to be) all requests, image loads, EVERYTHING, is duplicated and sent to the legitimate web site, so everything there looks normal. At first, everyone goes through Foxacid. But as people are targeted or cleared in the system, more and more are sent to the real version of the web site, until only the targeted individuals are completely isolated. Once this is accomplished, the targeted people are screwed to oblivion, getting bugs planted on their systems and they will only get the holoweb version of the web site. And the holoweb will not match the real version on top of that.

    At this point, the targeted individuals become 100 percent troll managed, and absolutely everything they do is compromised completely. They can see and confirm that they wrote something, and it won’t be written, they can see and confirm they sent help somewhere and it won’t be sent, and trolls will back manage everything, to make sure the target becomes demoralized and totally ineffective. Forum posts will show to them and no one else, comments will show to them and no one else, they will be erased and abducted by the holoweb.

    That’s the new reality. Fortunately, up until now, only targeted web sites and individuals are affected, and both have to be compromised for it to work. The internet is still mostly real. Don’t bet on that lasting much longer if we sit on our butts and do nothing about it.

  38. I don’t know about that. Sounds like how the web operated about 25 years ago! HAHAHA. Seriously, it was so…not very reliable. I remember those years. A pain in the ass when things went bad.

  39. Jim R

    If you’re worried about them spoofing your connection, you can log in from another computer at another place. Or look at the site without logging in. Everything on EMS news is public, you don’t need a log-in like you would with facebook.

    So just go to a public library or something. You should be able to see whether your comment got published.

  40. We have comments vanish in the past due to coding problems which is why I am trying to help via showing how coding at this site works so people can post things. I like to see stuff here and it helps, too! Keep it up!

    Thanks.

  41. Jim R

    I think the WordPress system works pretty well overall. They filter a lot of the spam by holding back comments with too many links. And sometimes weird html codes are used to start malware attacks. I have had comments disappear, but it’s no big deal, I just shrug and wait a while and retype it. Sometimes I know what I did wrong, and sometimes not.

    I noticed some other commenters experimenting with tables and the like. But it’s so easy to mess up the whole comment section that way … so only a very small tiny subset of html is allowed by WordPress.

  42. Correct. One has to follow some basic rules which is why I also posted a model showing how to put in videos and pictures. I like both. But don’t do many links, definitely, even I can’t do that in the comments! 🙂

  43. Moe

    EMS:

    The information you proffer must be of value to you or you wouldn’t dedicate the time and energy in proselytizing it. And I’m certain you are
    dedicated to those who attend to your blog.

    I also suspect you intend that your effort here be destined for posterity and would like to preserve your particular worldview and its engagement, together with the interaction and responses of your readership.

    Don’t be too quick to shrug off Stone’s postulation.

  44. The government entities can destroy the entire web. It was launched by the CIA in the first place. I have been on it since DAY ONE due to my father being on it!

    I grew up on the internet. Of course, it changes over time. It was tons better way back in 1999. By 2001, it deteriorated greatly. We now have corporate internet and the old internet but the constrictions on the older net are growing worse every year. I pay money for my site and this keeps it going, by the way.

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