Grenville Tower Fire: Government Vertical Slums Are Dangerous


London fire: at least six dead after Grenfell tower block sets fire on Latimer Road in London – YouTube

 

A huge public housing tower filled mainly with Muslims and foreign newcomers caught on fire and burned and is still burning as I write this, hours later.  This building was from the disastrous push for huge public housing projects of the 1960-1980 government programs in the EU and US.  I lived around these vertical slums in NYC and they were home to crime, filth and riots.  These buildings are unsuitable for third world people and I will explain why.

 

I used to live within spitting distance of these vertical slums in NYC.  People there come in from far and wide and poor citizens who know what is going on, avoid these buildings because they are very uncomfortable places to live unless you like being robbed or mugged regularly.

 

I have witnessed and my parents have, too, third world people trying to live like ‘at home’ which means OPEN FIRES.  Yes, they do all sorts of dangerous things because this is how they lived before moving into a modern building.

 

Once, back in the 1960’s, my parents were on a prop plane flying from Nepal when a family took out their cooking equipment and lit a fire to cook their meal!  My father put out the fire and the crew came back to see what caused the smoke.

 

One way to stop fires is installation of sprinkler systems.  Passing such laws forcing these systems to be installed, is very difficult.  I am all for that, sprinklers save lives.

 

Home builders beating back fire sprinkler laws: My brownstone had a sprinkler system when it was a rooming house due to NYC rules about multi-family buildings.  A tenant tried to burn the house down when I was in contract for it but the sprinklers put it out.

 

NOW…many people online are yelling about ‘why didn’t the buildings fall?’ when there is a mere fire.  The WTC was a very unusual event.  It had two big jets slam into the buildings, wrecking the integrity of the metal support columns and demolishing the interior as well as setting on fire thanks to fuel as well as other things, so the fire was an EXPLOSION and not a mere fire.

 

Secondly, the Tower fires in England are typical housing for poor people: it has small rooms and is a honey-comb design, not a hollow shell like the WTC buildings.  Those buildings were totally ‘open floor design’ and the floors were immense, I had been inside a number of times in that building complex.

 

The Grenfell Tower fire moves up on the outside due to flammable exterior building materials when it was ‘refurbished.  Bricks don’t burn.  But the materials that fed the fire were not bricks.  It appears that the fire went up the outside of the building, not the interior.

 

This fire is like the Huge skyscaper fire in Dubai near New Year’s Eve fireworks display. It, too, was an exterior fire that shot to the roof and moved deep inside the building.

 

TRADE CENTER TO GET FIRE SPRINKLERS AT $45 MILLION COST – NYTimes.com  I remember this vividly.  The sprinkler system didn’t work on 9/11 because when the jets hit the building, they smashed deep inside the towers and cut the water supply.  People below the plane crash sections were able to flee, no one above it survived.

 

New York City requires that sprinklers, or alternative fire safety measures, be installed in all office buildings taller than 100 feet, or about 10 stories. Because it is owned by New York and New Jersey, however, the trade center complex, including the twin, 110-story towers, is exempt from the law.

 

But Guy F. Tozzoli, director of the World Trade Department, which runs the complex, said the the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey had decided five years ago to comply with the city’s law.

 

He said it had already spent about $8.5 million to install smoke detector communication systems between lobbies and floors and systems to bring elevators to lobbies when fire is detected.

 

None of this was operational on 9/11 due to the planes crashing through the buildings.

 

”I think these buildings should now be the safest possible buildings built,” Mr. Tozzoli said. Peter C. Goldmark Jr., executive director of the authority, quipped that installing the systems in the twin towers would ”eat up every mile of copper pipe east of the Mississippi.”

 

”Buy copper stock,” he added. Each floor in the towers is equal to one acre, or 43,560 square feet. A sprinkler head will be installed every 2,500 square feet. About 50,000 people work in the complex, which has six buildings, and 80,000 more visit each day. Authority officials said they acted because the extra safety the sprinklers would afford was worth the cost.

 

The fatal flaws in the WTC buildings was shared by other buildings which were erected with little internal structural integrity.  ‘Open plans’ are a big item for architects and elites.  I once worked for a German corporation on the 46th floor right next to the Empire State Building.  Our building was super solid with a honeycomb office floor design, the reason the WTC was designed open was so people could configure things as they wished so the safe design of honeycomb structural integrity was tossed out with fatal results.

 

The hubris of the 1984 article is heartbreaking.  No one I knew died on 9/11 but this was due to me telling everyone that the building was still a death trap even with a new sprinkler system.

 

The design of buildings has to take into account all sorts of events.  And people hate doing this which is why they build on earthquake rifts, next to seething seas, on flood plains, or build modern houses where there are regular tornadoes.

 

For example, all houses in the Midwest should be domes, not side walls and have systems for shuttering windows in tornado events.  Virtually no one will die and homes will be barely touched by tornadoes instead of being death traps.

 

Midwestern housing designs are based on European cultural systems and Europe very seldom has tornadoes.  It baffles me why people insist on building improper structures for the climate and hazards.  It is simply insane.

 

The cladding of this public building in England is a scandal.  It was not fireproof.  One would think that there would be strict building rules about construction materials.  Another item: people in the building had to figure out for themselves that they were in danger.  One would think there would be an all-out warning system for everyone.  It is a public housing project, after all.

 

Grenfell Tower Resident Describes Frantic Escape From Burning Building | Good Morning Britain – YouTube:  he mentions the plastic cladding and how toxic the smoke was.  He was a survivor due to being on the lowest floors.  The man claims they were told, ‘if there is a fire, shelter in place’.  If this is true, it is criminal.  You always evacuate a building when there is a fire.

28 Comments

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28 responses to “Grenville Tower Fire: Government Vertical Slums Are Dangerous

  1. A few points but largely you talk.a lot of shit, I know the area well, not full of asylum seekers and imagines/3rd world people.. The community on a whole good people, great area with low chrime in comparison to other area,s just click bait.. Embers, what tosh.. Do you think your a journalist… Very funny… Just on this one for the clicks, scumbag, people have died… Cock

  2. Jim R

    Building 7 was not struck by a jet. Yet it fell into its own basement, just as neatly as if Silverstein had said “pull it!”

    But, aside from that, the residents had complained of shoddy maintenance and power surges destroying their appliances. This is not the fault of the people living in the flats, it is the fault of the owners of the building and the ones responsible for its maintenance.

    https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/

    Perhaps in a more affluent neighborhood, the tenants would have dragged the owners into court..

  3. Just tons and tons and many tons of debris from the two towers fell on it. Similar to a landslide.

    I know people are very touchy about belief systems.

    Also, the towers fell and filled the entire block and fell on top of nearby buildings, particularly #7. Ever shovel broken concrete ? I have. It is very dense.

  4. Breaking news: it was probably an overheated refrigerator motor which caused this fire. This means the fire protection systems was really poorly designed.

  5. Jim R

    None of that debris was evident in the collapse videos. Just a shiny straight building with shiny flat windows, falling at the rate gravity would have it fall, straight down. Less than ten seconds from a shiny straight building to a pile of rubble centered on the spot where the building stood.

  6. Sigh. Seriously, it is impossible but I won’t do the stupid ‘bombs in buildings’ garbage. If there were bombs, LOGICALLY there would be more ‘debris throw’. Even when doing pro pull downs and I have been allowed to attend this in NJ in the past due to being a woman builder, there is considerable debris and the WTC was one of the BIGGEST buildings on earth when this happened and not a 10 or 20 story building. Both were more than 100 stories and had a giant footprint.

    Unlike most conspiracy people, I have great knowledge about those towers, watched them being built, been inside, seen the problems with the design, warned heavily about it for years and years before the disaster.

  7. Jim R

    It was 47 stories, actually. A very big building, but far from the world’s biggest.

    And if it were a ‘landslide’ that knocked it down, it would have gone SIDEWAYS. Landslides move sideways from the source of the debris. And the building was a block away from the towers, so the ‘landslide’ theory would have it sliding away from them.

    I know, it’s hard to wrap your mind around the magnitude of this crime. But a crime it was, and the rot goes all the way to the top.

    Lots of people heard the explosions, many of them were knowledgeable about such things (such as Barry Jennings, the building engineer for bldg 7), and there WAS a lot of debris thrown. The criminals who did this did not care about casualties, either.

  8. JimmyJ

    Around BC Canada the latest building fad is entirely wood constructed high-rises. At first there was a 7 story wood office building in Prince George, now most recently is an 18 (!!) story wood constructed student residence at UBC. The hubris of placing naive university students in an 18 story entirely made of wood building is breathtaking. Well there is one exception, the stairwell and elevator shaft are in a concrete shell, but it’s a very narrow area and if the building is engulfed in flames it won’t stand up but will likely topple.

    a href= “https://news.ubc.ca/2016/09/15/structure-of-ubcs-tall-wood-building-now-complete/” Structure of UBC’s Tall Wood Building Now Complete

    As for Tower 7, the debris falling from great height can easily destroy a building. And yes shovelling concrete debris is ridiculously tough, I’ve done it many times. A cubic foot of concrete is about 150lbs. Little old Tower 7 had no chance. And neither did my back.

  9. JimmyJ

    Used to code HTML/CSS webpages and now I can’t even enter a link properly. Sigh.

  10. Londoner 1965

    Please do some research, this building had reported electrical problems, it’s heating system changed from oil to gas, was clad in a combustible material and had street access for emergency services blocked during refurbishment.

    My “foreign” family gratefully lived in a local block for 13 years, practiced CoE, spoke the queen’s English (yes we had that in the former Commonwealth) cooked on our electric cooker and we even used the oven for Sunday roasts. Our fellow residents came from across London, the UK, Europe and across the globe. We lived in a community, not a slum, most occupants were working class professionals, some of us have moved on or even taken university level education to build our careers, others chose to stay.

    Our block was concrete and unclad, as a result, the few fires that occurred were contained within individual flats in a more secure manner, compared to what often happens in the type of Victorian terraced house 150-year-old house I now own and live in.

    A lack of so-called “affluence” is not a measure of intelligence or worth, lessons will be learned and this will be addressed, it is just very tragic that it takes these circumstances to effect change and responsibility.

    I will be volunteering for the community later this week, rather than drumming up conspiracy and assumption on the internet!

    Will 500+ residents, the death toll will most likely go into 3 figures, so please have some respect and consideration for those affected by the tragedy, if you want to do something constructive there is a Just Giving page:

    https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/familiesofgrenfelltower

  11. S Rumsey

    Who wrote this crap? Why mention Muslims & foreigners in the
    first line after such a tragic event. This is not NYC
    You probably don’t even know the building or the area.

  12. Because….many cities with ‘public housing’ end up filled with aliens. I used to live for decades in NYC where this was nonstop. Guess why?

    The hostility and crime in these places is huge! Poor citizens who were not recent arrivals would live anywhere but in these towers. I was once very poor and lived in a one room of a wooden Victorian house while next door, a huge tower was built and totally filled with aliens who then made money mugging us.

    This is why I organized street patrols. Most of our ‘clients’ sent to prison lived in these towers.

  13. Most cities that built these huge charity towers have been blowing them up and removing them. I have personally watched this demolition in Newark, NJ. NYC refuses to do this so they have these ‘crime concentration’ points which coincide nearly 100% with the ‘social footprint’ of these towers.

    Now, whenever a tower building project is proposed, homeowners unite to fight it tooth and nail. It is literally life and death for us.

  14. Jim R

    The story just in:
    https://www.rt.com/uk/392272-council-grentfell-blogger-fire/

    And, like I said in my first post, “aside from that..” — you brought it up, Elaine, so it had to be discussed. But no more.

    Elaine, you can’t even spell the name of the tower correctly. How do you know it’s full of welfare queens and filthy immigrants? Anyway, here’s the forbidden blog:
    https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2017/06/14/grenfell-tower-fire/

    It has lots of links to earlier posts in the same blog. Residents repeatedly pointed out how unsafe the building was, and complained when power surges caused their appliances to blow up.

    I have seen shoddy electrical work myself — there was an incompetent Comcast technician who came to my mother-in-law’s house to work on her cable TV connection. He snapped the neutral wire to the electric panel, causing 110V appliances to be directly exposed to the 220V two phase supply from the street. It blew up her refrigerator and central air conditioning. Yes, shoddy electrical work can do that. The Comcast guy wasn’t even an electrician, she had to call the city to come out and fix the electrical connection, buy new appliances and get her air conditioning system fixed.

  15. I pointed out the part of how it was an electrical fire and the fire was not the fault of the residents there. Then I explained how these towers came to be built and why they are all either death traps or dangerous due to poor design.

    I then put it to a historical context of these towers: total failures. They are BAD for poor people! They alienate poor people! They are uncomfortable. Anyone who was poor and had any brains would live anywhere rather than these towers due to them being quite ‘antisocial/ugly/dangerous for children’.

  16. Jim R

    The petty bureaucrat who threatened the Grenfell Action Group for keeping a critical blog … his name is Vimal Sarna. Good English name, Vimal . . .

  17. floridasandy

    jim r,

    you will admit that it was full of poor dependent people who had already complained about the safety issues, and had no recourse to resolve it?

    right?

    I don’t think people would live there if they had other options-that isn’t judging anybody is it?

    I would like to salute the hero who caught the dropped baby and saved it-that was truly a heroic story in this tragedy.

  18. Jim R

    It’s my impression that many, perhaps most, of the people in those flats had jobs, but did not make enough money to live in that very affluent neighborhood. Not entirely on welfare, but also not free to move..

  19. Floridasandy

    Corbyn to the rescue:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/jeremy-corbyn-empty-homes-owned-rich-should-requisitioned-grenfell/amp/

    On a side note , in Vegas the fire alarm went off in our hotel high rise. Though told to stay put, we bolted down the staircase to the ground floor. Always better safe than sorry- I would never listen to somebody telling me to stay put in a fire . Yikes!

  20. Always try to vacate! The people leaving this tower fire had serious trouble due to people trying to carry out their belongings though I cannot blame them for this, it is a real tragedy.

    AND…further proof that putting poor people in huge towers is INSANE. I speak as one who was once very poor and was the super for the buildings we were in, I had to prevent fires, for example. You have to be very proactive, people do all sorts of crazy things including overloading circuits, etc.

  21. Lou

    19-It’s my impression that many, perhaps most, of the people in those flats had jobs, but did not make enough money to live in that very affluent neighborhood. Not entirely on welfare, but also not free to move..

    There was news in NYC about ‘set asides’ and how those apartments were design so that the hall and elevator was separate from the rest of the units.
    Good for the builder. To hell with this ultra socialism.

  22. Jim R

    If it ever goes to court, that letter above could be damning evidence .. those English Indians in charge of the Borough and its public housing cannot claim they were not informed that the place was a fire hazard.

    They knew, and not only did nothing, they tried to suppress the information.

  23. Marilyn Bartlett

    London has to be made less expensive to live in. Housing should not be in rabbit hutches in the sky. Oligarchs billionaire celebs buying up mansions, should be charged a premium tax to the government. A mega premium to be used to subsidies ordinary housing. What has happened to decent homes act.electrical appliance seems to be start of problem. What about all these tumbleryers catching fire!!!.Still happening.

  24. The towers are out of fashion for some time now. In the US, these have been a total disaster and criminals usually take over ‘running’ these places and police fear to enter them. This is true all over Europe. Generally, the populations that were formerly more uniform avoid these towers and they are left to recent immigrants because they are so dangerous. I know personally how this works. I used to live in NYC.

  25. Lou

    26- Cabrini Green. Blacks destroyed their homes.

  26. Lou

    58 missing, feared dead.

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