As time passes, I dislike Krugman more and more. It isn’t ideological. It isn’t because he won’t believe all the things I believe. It is because he is gullible. And illogical. Today, he wrote an immense article about the ‘mystery’ as to why all the economics experts at the top couldn’t see obvious events unfolding nor could anticipate obvious problems. Well, there are even more future obvious events and problems that are equally easy for me to see and obscure to Krugman and his buddies. This is because they teach each other and thus, have the same belief systems. I have my own, bizarre system which seems to work absolutely splendidly when I wish to gaze into a crystal ball.
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There are many interesting problems in Krugman’s attempt to explain why so many of his colleagues were clueless. He imagines, it is due to them all being beguiled by the beauty of the magic formulas they cooked up. Being wizards, they can’t help this. The elegant tricks and schemes and doodles leave out all the interesting elements that are part of the human condition. That is, it is all a game. When the game collapses due to human nature desiring to go to infinity, the wizards are puzzled. Why should a minor detail like the hockey stick graph, stop everything?
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Of course, astronomers and physics professors understand the concept of infinity, too. And could explain it all to the economy wizards. Only the hard science guys teamed up with the wizards to create bigger, better and vaster magic spells. Which incidentally, go to infinity. The most delightful of these was the Derivatives Beast conjuring event. No monetary-based system in the history of humanity could run up to infinity as fast as this except for one: the number of zeroes on a currency bill can shoot to infinity in less than 5 years.
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The nifty thing about the Derivatives Beast was, it wasn’t money. It was BETS. That is, deals that were unreal unless someone goofed. Well, last year, a whole bunch of guys goofed and the entire financial system collapsed. This was after several years of me screaming about the Beast and drawing cartoons about him.
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It is interesting to me that Krugman brings up a story that happens to be part of my own life. That is, he thinks a dandy life lesson was learned when economics professors examined baby sitting co-ops like the one I used to be part of in NYC and NJ, near Princeton.
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How Did Economists Get It So Wrong? – NYTimes.com
IV. THE TROUBLE WITH MACRO . “We have involved ourselves in a colossal muddle, having blundered in the control of a delicate machine, the working of which we do not understand. The result is that our possibilities of wealth may run to waste for a time — perhaps for a long time.” So wrote John Maynard Keynes in an essay titled “The Great Slump of 1930,” in which he tried to explain the catastrophe then overtaking the world. And the world’s possibilities of wealth did indeed run to waste for a long time; it took World War II to bring the Great Depression to a definitive end.
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Technically speaking, Germany and Britain were both mired in a terrible depression after WWII. The US even fell into a very bad recession as war spending fell rapidly. The Korean War and the Cold War saved the US from lack of spending money. Thanks to war fears, the US public put up with perpetual government debts. Which is the dynamic to this day, it hasn’t changed one iota.
. Why was Keynes’s diagnosis of the Great Depression as a “colossal muddle” so compelling at first? And why did economics, circa 1975, divide into opposing camps over the value of Keynes’s views? .
I like to explain the essence of Keynesian economics with a true story that also serves as a parable, a small-scale version of the messes that can afflict entire economies. Consider the travails of the Capitol Hill Baby-Sitting Co-op.
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This co-op, whose problems were recounted in a 1977 article in The Journal of Money, Credit and Banking, was an association of about 150 young couples who agreed to help one another by baby-sitting for one another’s children when parents wanted a night out. To ensure that every couple did its fair share of baby-sitting, the co-op introduced a form of scrip: coupons made out of heavy pieces of paper, each entitling the bearer to one half-hour of sitting time. Initially, members received 20 coupons on joining and were required to return the same amount on departing the group. .
Unfortunately, it turned out that the co-op’s members, on average, wanted to hold a reserve of more than 20 coupons, perhaps, in case they should want to go out several times in a row. As a result, relatively few people wanted to spend their scrip and go out, while many wanted to baby-sit so they could add to their hoard. But since baby-sitting opportunities arise only when someone goes out for the night, this meant that baby-sitting jobs were hard to find, which made members of the co-op even more reluctant to go out, making baby-sitting jobs even scarcer. . . . .
In short, the co-op fell into a recession.
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OK: that is a totally stupid story because it isn’t what really happened. That is, I know the true story because I belonged to 2 such co-ops in 2 different states. Each one was run by mothers who were all college connected people. I was the Builder and thus, had free time to babysit in winter which was my idle season. In each co-op, the whole thing broke down after less than three months because only a handful of mothers would babysit. That is, you call a mom and hand her your ‘chit’ and ‘children’ and then go off. Only this was NOT RECIPROCATED.
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That is, when the mothers who babysat wanted to hand these chits to other mothers, we would call each one and ask for time for babysitting and they ALWAYS refused. Every blasted bitch refused to pay up. The pay up was for them to do the labor! They had NO intention of doing ANY labor at all! They were abusing the workers who did honor the chits!
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So, the first co-op I belonged to broke up with 6 mothers forming a group with me and they raised funds and paid me to watch their kids at any and all times including sleep overs. In return, when I had appointments or other activities, and they were available, they would come to my house and hang out with the children who collected there and in turn, the mothers who picked up the kids would have to take them to a restaurant of the babysitter’s choice.
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We liked this so much, we would plan which restaurants we would patronize! It was lots of fun. Then, I moved to NJ and this started all over again only I warned the mothers that I would collect my ‘chits’ or else. And it broke up because I was very, very mean to everyone who tried to shirk their duties. This involved me going into their fancy front yards and yelling at them, calling them cheaters. Ahem. I can be very irritable.
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It wasn’t that mothers were ‘reluctant to use their chits’….they COULDN’T use them! If no one honors ‘chits’ as ‘money’ it ceases to have value! How could they use these stupid things if all the other mothers refused to accept them (ie: take in the kids and watch them for 6 hours). In NJ, mothers ended up like in Brooklyn, paying me to take their kids around all over the place. I like children and have lots of fun teaching them stuff. I could make $300 a month doing this. This was real money I could use for my own ends and didn’t depend on some woman honoring her debts. And we know that people will skip out on debts if there are no real contracts or I would have sued all the bitches who skipped out on their duties in the co-ops.
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Modern economics is based on stupid stories like the one Krugman cites here. What I see is, the US plans on being like the mean, petty, self-centerd bitches in our co-op who cheated the good mothers (there were 6 good mothers and about 12 cheating bitches). The US plans on not honoring the chits that were handed out for Chinese labor. The Chinese will be like me! I know this for certain. They will be loud, vicious and will move swiftly to form better alliances with honorable people and use real money or even gold, as well as other rewards. They like feasts, for example.
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Indeed, one of the members of my NYC co-op was Chinese and one was Korean. And they LOVED the ‘take us to the restaurant’ deal. We had so much fun! And no one was ever mad at each other. We took care of each other above and beyond the original co-op (we were all strangers when it was launched). We formed an economic union with money and favors as the means of exchange. And gave INSURANCE and SOCIALISM with each other. When I was in the hospital, all the mothers pitched in and took care of my children. When one of the children had a brain hemorrhage while I was watching him, I took him to the hospital and for 2 months, while he was in a coma after surgery, we all pitched in financially and physically to support the bereaved family so they could sit at his bedside. He recovered. And we felt that our social system was key to this recovery for it sustained the parents.
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Economics is all about social connections, honor, trust and common cause. When this is ignored or disrupted or exploited, it falls apart or people form new unions. And we are entering exactly such a stage where this will happen, increasingly. And this is why I like debating fundamental politics and economic systems since this is our future: constant change as we try to deal with the excess actions of cheaters, lazy people and destroyers seeking to get goodies while not giving back to the community.
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ems
constant change as we try to deal with the excess actions of cheaters, lazy people and destroyers seeking to get goodies while not giving back to the community.
precisely ,, and how are these to be dealt with.. and what is your solution
If no one honors ‘chits’ as ‘money’ it ceases to have value! How could they use these stupid things if all the other mothers refused to accept them (ie: take in the kids and watch them for 6 hours)
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Krugman does make more print than direct scientific explanation… but hes an economist and that science is apparently pretty much sold ‘in economic paradigm leveraged into 3rd party idealistic systems’… he seems more like Joe Biden than a JPL ICBM scientist
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I would rather read pragmatic dollar idealists, than the words of garbage lenders you cant make money on garbage
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I wish i knew more about the continuity of markets, there is so much political leverage out there that really, its hard to determine the value of good will… and the financing is just gooey gobs… im sure theres a strong value based market in there somewhere, but thats all i want to deal in ‘good ideas/leadership’ and its just so painted over by CNBC and the like
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-53565441845289277&q=nuclear+fision&total=185&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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the beach is closed
your solution for tishuman tendency under socialism
ems
quote
“constant change as we try to deal with the excess actions of cheaters, lazy people and destroyers seeking to get goodies while not giving back to the community”.
wc
asks
“precisely ,, and how are these to be dealt with.. and what is your solution”
answer silence lol
for those who’s jaws are moving faster than their ability to fill a thimble with spit
quote
In 1983 I wrote a book with Robert Parker titled “The Strategic Metal’s War” in which I pointed out that both Russia and China were, at that time, cornering the world’s supply of strategic metals and materials.
It was clear to me 24 years ago when these items were selling for peanuts that their future was brighter than bright.
The subject is extremely complex and hard to participate in as an investor.
Most of them are exchangeable. By that I mean when their price gets to a certain level others will be substituted.
With the advance of science some items simply cannot find substitutions at any price yet are not mined or produced for their own worth as co or bi products.
The West, having no long term economic plan, has once again totally missed the boat. Russia and China control strategic metals and materials. The West hasn’t even made that realization yet.
I knew it 24 years ago, but just as now, people make fun of those that have the ability to see the future. It hurts me that even then I did everything possible to get this message out, yet no one in the West would listen.
(the west is filled with ear hair)
Sometimes I ask myself what good understanding all of this is if all it engenders is the deranged hate mongering of small minds.
Yes, I did notice gold is in the process of the third tap on $1000 that I said to you years ago would represent the sign of the gold price’s readiness to vault above $1000.
You might recall what I told you about gold’s first breach of $1000.
All the best,
Jim sinclair
(most were sucking an acorn with a pet squirrel and making spitting sounds .. )
as we try to deal with the excess actions of cheaters, lazy people and destroyers seeking to get goodies while not giving back to the community.
.. didn’t learn anything in grade school?
The definition of ‘who is sucking down stuff’ is complex. Um….Goldman Sachs has immense amounts of SOCIALIST rescues for a bunch of goof offs.
ems
your quote on co-ops
constant change as we try to deal with the excess actions of cheaters, lazy people and destroyers seeking to get goodies while not giving back to the community”.
what is the solution to this problem ..
how would you fix it ?
krugman is not honest IMO, nor objective. He has benefited off of the pathetic state of his profession in this country. Sure he got his establishment award … big fucking deal … someone told me he got it for his work proving things that already happened. I don’t know if that’s true and I don’t have the desire to even look into it, but I guess that’d be better than most economists in this country.
krugman plays favorites. He loves the clintons … liked hillary too and took some unfair shots at obama in the process IMO. He was up for a position in clinton’s cabinet but … as he tells his favorite story … he was too blunt to get it. Whatever … he still worships bill clinton … anything clinton. He may have known about the mole b4 monica did. he loves benny bernanke too and raved about the great job he did in printing up money until wall street stopped making him cry uncle. big accomplishment … it takes about as much talent as it does to fill up a pitcher of beer. bernanke got him his job at princeton. basically, if you are powerful and are nice to krugman, he’ll find some justification to be nice to you back.
he continually blames ronald reagan for everything … and I’m getting so tired of this bullshit from the liberals. this is similar to the idiot republicans blaming Jimmy Carter for the housing crash due to some bill he signed for low income housing or something. (fuck, why not just blame it on James Polk. He’s the one that took california, nevada and arizona into our possession and this thing never would have gotten this bad if those states weren’t around.) but the liberals are often just as illogical as the republicans and just as blind to it. anyway, reagan has been gone for a long time, any of the presidents could have changed course and they did not. reagan did not put them under some hypnotic trance, they made their own decisions and you can’t lay their decisions … and sell-outs … on a man that hasn’t been president in over 20 years.
Another thing about krugman, like most in his disgraced profession in this country, he has zero respect for money. he thinks it is some play-doh thingee that you can stretch and contort but it will never lose its credibility.
basically, the truth that krugman dare not utter is that his profession in this country is CORRUPTED! They have been for a long time. Who hires these jackasses? wall street, the federal government … excuse the redundancy … and academia, which is the factory for these whores that also has its own incentives to play nice with dc … coz they’ll play nice back. And what do all these entities want to hear? Everything is going great … spend, spend, spend and don’t worry about the debt coz better times are just right around the corner. That’s how you become “successful” as an economist: thru wall street, academia and the u.s. government.
and the thing about economics … and it’s a little like psychology in this respect … there is little way to determine the effect of variables becoz you can’t isolate them. So you get all these unprovable theories … economic religions … and then these entrenched academia jackasses don’t want the field of study to move outside of their theoretical area of expertise. and the money gets behind those priests and solidifies their position.
Z
” … the money gets behind these priests and solidifies their position in academia and also their economic theory.”
Z
rong again, Elaine. The reason the baby sitter co-op broke down was that these VACCINATED and Sugar-Hyped kids wouldn’t stop screaming and therefore, based on bedrock economic theory, the chits weren’t sufficient economic incentive to watch the kids.
However, in non vaccinated areas of the world, such as Europe where the kids were not vaccinated, parents were happy to help, which allowed the other parents time to socialize, kept marriages strong which kept kids strong and focused on education. THIS is why america is in economic trouble.
oh yeah…i have impeccable government data references available upon request.
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ELAINE; That is totally insane.
1. I lived in Europe and one of my sources of income as a teenager there was babysitting kids. Moms were so elated to find an American girl who enjoyed taking their kids off their hands.
2. The children were often brats. I trained them the same way I train my dogs and horses. Being an animal trainer since childhood is a great skill for keeping control of children (but you can’t use a horse whip, ahem).
3. I have known plenty of unvaccinated brats raised by anti-vaccination hippies.
4. You illustrate how illogic, no information people operate. Jumping to bizarre conclusions based on zero information is fun but stupid. 🙂
wrong, that is.
The Capitol Hill Baby Sitting Co-op is now 51 years old, its membership has decreased from a high of 250 families to the current 20.
http://www.capitalcommunitynews.com/publications/hillrag/2008_April/html/TheCapitolHillBabysittingCoop.cfm
It is more than likely given the numbers and the ages, that the mid 70’s saw most of the initial member’s children pass beyond the age where baby sitting is needed. 59 to 77 being still 18 years even when a Kurgmutt is doing the math.
I have belonged to a number of co-ops. They work only if there is some sort of enforcement arm. Perhaps the thing that keeps one going is a fierce pruning of the tree. From 250 to only 20 sounds like my co-op in NYC that went from about 80 to 6 when we pruned out all the dead beats.
I know that around Feb 08 Krugman said he did not know if we would experience a recession when asked at his talk at Google (this should be on youtube). As we all know, the recession began Dec 07. Krugman will be wrong again.
At the last Eschacon Krugman was one of the panelists. He was talking about the housing bubble. I asked him about the role of speculation in the doubling of many food commodities. He said that although he’d like to believe that evil speculators were behind it, he didn’t see any evidence of hoarding, which struck me as an obtuse academic definition of speculation. NPR had a couple of economists talking about the same topic, and I wrote to the woman economist from Duke, who never felt like answering me, and to the USDA economist Ephraim Liebtag, who did write back. He said that speculation was definitely one of the factors. Now you know, and I know, that the prices of rice, soybeans, chickpeas, and wheat’s doubling had NOTHING to do with a slightly increased demand for corn for biofuels. It was speculation, pure and simple. The hedge funds and investment banks drove up the price of energy on the futures market, and then turned their attention to food commodities. Of course the Commodity Futures Trading Board, being run by cronies and the wives of cronies, had nothing to say. And I haven’t heard a whimper from any economist on how destructive and immoral this all was. People were starving to death because food had become out of reach for the poorest, and no one was addressing the fact that a system set up to guarantee price stability had been hijacked to enable the rich to feed off the poor. In fact, all the economists seen in public were chanting the same old ‘supply and demand’ mantra.
Which brings me to “z” comment. “z” has it entirely correct, economists are the pseudo intellectual rationalizers who are used to explain to the proles why they are so fucked. Practitioners of a false science.
ems lhar
“all” the economics experts at the top couldn’t see obvious events […]
(all the keynesian economists)
w.c.. can show twenty top austrian ( and even more) focused economists a step by step abc of what was coming and why ,,
the idea that economist have not a clue . is because like in life .. the ying and yang ,
those that do understand.. gold standard, no fed reserve, and a whole host of very specific understanding that the many are dense to read and understand ,
like little lambs to the slaughter,, not one in a million can understand the false babble about money, about government spending.
and even here on this board ,, many refuse to read and understand,, they read others lips lol and stage protests of brain cramp.,
krugman
is a example of staged commentary about .. balls of string and wet papers sacks. like al gore in 2008 a nobel peace prize lol
like wise krugman a 2008 economics LOLOLOLOLOL
and committee of like minded foxes .. voted for krugman to watch the sheep pen.
Very well said, Elaine.
The problems you outline have been considered extensively from an academic viewpoint, but afaik those very useful vocabulary and concepts have never been brought together with real-world economics.
Possibly this is for the same reason that critical thinking cannot be taught in public schools: something might get solved if people had the right tools to think about the issues with.
The issue of cooperation vs. competition in a group starts at its simplest with the prisoner’s dilemma game, with just two people involved. This has been studied for decades and even computer modeled and is quite well understood, though fresh variations continue to yield interesting insights.
The issue of free riders is a big one in evolutionary biology and evolutionary psychology.
This isn’t just human nature. It has gone on so long (examples abound) that a butterfly has evolved that looks almost like the poisonous Monarch, but doesn’t waste any effort manufacturing or living with the poison. Maybe not a free rider, but a free flyer?
Nature guarantees that competition by those pretending to cooperate will always happen. There will always be free riders who take advantage of group efforts without contributing their share. The issue is how the other individuals and the group as a whole respond to minimize the damage to themselves.
You told us how it really worked out in some coops.
The academic application of such concepts and experience to individuals and animals is being very actively pursued, but afaik there is zero effort to use these very sharp tools to analyze the history of our actual large human groups.
Now may indeed be the time when precious metals regain center stage, as a difficult-to-cheat reality anchor for the financial system.
But being “right” about precious metals 24 years ago is nonsense. If you’re an adult, 24 years is time enough to raise a family and even see some grandchildren. If I could steal a few million dollars (without hurting any individual too much) and know the act wouldn’t be traced to me for 24 years, I’d do it in a flash. Not only would I be able to enjoy most or all of my life as a multimillionaire, I would have all the time and resources that I needed to build strong defenses against the eventual consequences. The original millions, well managed, would have grown into real power by then, if only by supporting the theft of still more. Also perhaps by purchasing politicians, who could redefine my crimes as ordinary business tactics.
Krugman’s not equipped to do it, but looking at our economic and political situation with the *all* the tools that academic studies have provided would be very helpful, imo.
Ain’t happening. Won’t happen. History will repeat.
tom
“If I could steal a few million dollars (without hurting any individual too much) and know the act wouldn’t be traced to me for 24 years, I’d do it in a flash. ”
well thats what the fed , the banks , gibson paradox and a host of keynesians were counting on.. not hurting individuals to much.. only it raped a nation of africa, among others brought misery and poverty to millions, created wars , the industrial miltery complex , the cold war, slain leaders ,,
so in retrospect it looks like the thieft of a couple million magnified many times over will bring this country to its knees/
drink of choice
saturday morning
single shot expresso
medium cup.. iced .. topped with soy..
shake a little cinnamon on top
enjoy
ems good site keep on trucking
If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.”
— Noam Chomsky
krugman fooled by keynesian thinking
but chickens not fooled by modified crops
Chickens refusing to eat the maize they had been fed has led to the discovery that their feed had been genetically modified to include a well-known weed and insect killer.
That’s the classic problem with free-riding, w.c.: a few can get away with it okay, since it is more trouble than it’s worth to deal with them. But when there are too many, everyone suffers.
So there is a rush to be first and grab the most before the suffering provokes countermeasures. For awhile, the cry is “Hey, everybody is doing it”.
That was the inflation of the bubble.
Now the big question is whose suffering will reach what level, provoking what countermeasures.
Simple calculations show that a return to the tax policies prevalent in the Kennedy-Reagan years would solve a lot of problems. Higher rates on top incomes, some protectionism for manufacturers, and the return of inheritance taxes on large fortunes would alleviate much pain for the vast majority, and structural social changes could be avoided. Won’t happen, of course.
for Tom P. The thing with the monarh butterflies isn’t so much that they manufacturepoisons, but that they get it directly from the milkweed on which the caterpillars feed. This sort of thing happens alot in nature. Shellac comes from a scale-type insect, but it really just resin from the plant on which the insect dines, expressed out by the insect. I don’t know if there is symbiosis between monarch and milkweed, maybe the butterfly, when drinking nectar, fertilizes the milkweed flowers.
Chickens refusing to eat the maize they had been fed has led to the discovery that their feed had been genetically modified to include a well-known weed and insect killer.
Gotta link?
You’re right, Larry, but it still costs the Monarch to accumulate and store the poison, just like it would cost you something to pick up and carry around rocks to throw at a potential enemy.
The more tasty Viceroys there are, looking like Monarchs, the more a bird’s odds improve for getting a meal by attacking a butterfly of that appearance. Soon lots of Monarchs are being pecked and maimed, even if they do get spit out. Too many free riders.
My point was that there is a constant balancing act going on – Elaine’s Libra makes sure that the payoff odds get adjusted.
We just don’t like living through those adjustments.
Personally, I’d rather use intelligence and foresight to model likely outcomes and avoid those that are less fun. The Darwinian game can get pretty rough, and there’s no escape from it, just different strategies of play.
It costs people something to interact in a society, based on some trust and a set of workable rules. So we have free riders who ignore the rules but still get the benefits. Killing even a Madoff would still be a crime, though his thefts were worth many people’s lives.
Too many free riders means it is time for new rules, but American rulemakers are corrupt, so society is going to break down far enough to produce a new set of rules and rulemakers. All our experience says this will happen, one way or another, none of them comfortable ways.
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ELAINE: The development of the Viceroys is due to birds looking at butterflies and deciding not to eat any that resemble Monarchs. So any other butterfly species that is similar gets to look more and more similar as the dissimilar members of the species are eaten while the ones that look more and more like Monarchs survive. Eventually, over time, the predators breed the similar but tasty ones to look like the Monarchs.
Ilex, you’ll find lots of links by googling “chickens refuse gmo” but an authoritative source is something else. They might all be a viral tale reproducing itself on the web, and I can’t be bothered to track it right now.
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ELAINE: That is correct, Tom. I get zillions of links to goofy, strange sites that cite this or that but it leads nowhere. There are many liars online and they proliferate like Monarch butterflies.
Could it be that Krugman wrote this article to badger people?
Or is he just that ignorant…..if I read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman
it seems quite reasonable….
or was he an insider, and now he isn’t anymore, and is desperatly trying to get back in?
or was he the simple messenger boy: not knowing anything
He is part of the Status Quo. The Status Quo meets and greets each other, hires each other, feeds each other and pets each other. They give each other awards and publish and put each other on TV. They all row the same boat which happens to be the Status Quo.
This is why you never see me on TV anymore. Once upon a time, I was on TV.
ilex
link to chicken feed
Smart chickens weren’t duped by foul play
Eleanor Momberg
Independent Online (SA), August 2 2009
http://tinyurl.com/ndmj2u
I too belonged to a babysitting co-op in the late ’70’s to early 80’s, but it worked quite well do to some simple planning: we took turns watching the kids on Fridays, to give moms one kid-free day a week. We would book the times about three months in advance, and you would be scheduled to be “on duty” every couple of months, in exchange for which you got your “days off.” If for some reason you couldn’t make it, you were responsible for lining up a replacement, generally by switching with someone else on the list. I don’t recall any problems with it, and it was very convenient.
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ELAINE: That is a direct exchange of duties, not passing chits around with each other. I did what you did, for years, with husbands doing the duties so mothers got a day off. But single women needed to join so we worked out a paying pool using money so these mothers who all worked, could join us.
my doCTOR gets CARIBEAN VACATIONS FROM THE DRUG MANUFACTURER TO PRESCRIBE CHOLESTEROL DRUGS THAT DESTROY INTERNAL ORGANS AND THE REPAIR OF THIS DAMAGES MAKE THE DRUG COMPANY MUCH MORE MONEY SELLING SURGICAL DRUGS AND MAKES THE DOCTORS MUCH MORE MONEYS ? MUST FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL TO THE MISINFORMATIONS IN THE MEDICAL SCHOOL TEXT BOOKS PAID FOR BY THE DRUG COMPANYS AND THE RAKE OFFS IN THE END OF LIFE CARE SYSTEM
mike
and the co-op express
howdy mike lol
why this incessant worry over a doctor, these rants about vaccines,,, various trite and shallow thought.. waste of brain use .
as the train of destruction bears down on an audience of keynesion and Tv addicted drama queens ,
if the water is raising better find a boat.. a safe place to land ,, rather than opinion and blovate on things inconsequential ,, how much drivel can rest on the head of a pin.
in my opinion.. their are things that need to be talked about of a serious life condition,, ..I will say now prepare for stuff way worse than a flue and shot ,,
elaine will be okay she is prepared on that mountain ,, others not so sure…
wish I knew exactly what and what for ,the health insurance people will pay before hand because the hospitals have a 30 percent off coupon for promp payments for services….
Actually, it looks to me like you did have a ‘real’ contract.
At any rate, if these women were the bitches you claim, I am not sure I would advise letting them around your kids anyway.
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ELAINE: I have many funny stories of brats. Like the kid who attacked my daughter, then told her he could do as he wanted because his dad was a lawyer. So I informed the father of this, he got mad at me and took a swipe and I punched him in the nose. I also won against him in court. It was very funny, his face when the judge chewed him out.
Sheesh, I wish Krugman would just come outta his ivory tower closet with his crystal ball, turban, and wizard coat. His pronunciations, declarations, interpretations, and future visions as he gazes into his made in china defective crystal ball reminds me of some movie …….hmmm…something about a girl with red slippers, crying for Auntie Em? Unfortunately Frank Morgan has passed and can’t coach Krugman.
Frank Morgan played all these parts in Wizard of Oz: Professor Marvel / The Gatekeeper / The Carriage Driver / The Guard Who Cries / The Wizard of Oz.
How many acting parts has Krugman been hired to play by his “Oz” puppet masters?
pardon my thoughts that i may be being bled financially dry even with health insurance by doctors trying to repair damages they may have caused with perscription drugs which they were paid to perscribe
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ELAINE: There are many witch doctors out there with miracle cures that are based on magical thinking. Try them. No one is forcing you to go to a doctor. As for drugs: people like popping pills. Since the beginning of medicine, ‘pill’ type cures were popular. Like anything you ingest, all pills have side effects. Salt has side effects! Tea has side effects! Eating meat has side effects! Eat too many carrots and your skin gets sort of orange! All things on this planet has side effects. THERE IS NO PURITY. This is a hard concept to accept. One has to simply gage how things are going and moderate one’s intake of that thing so there is no accumulation of problems elsewhere.
mike
heres a crying towel ,, lifes the shits lol
ok here the co-op deal for irony
emc is all incensed that free loaders want part of the good things that a co-op brings ..
yet she is willing to drop kick them out ,’]
in the micro view of things .
yet on the macro ,, these same freeloaders are deserving of the highest health care benefits. universal care .and a broad swath of goodies as she calls it,
out of the aggreate public purse
yet the free loader be dammed out of the personal purse,, lol
marxism in action. let the other guy pay the price .. even with a gun aimed at the head if neccessary .
where is the gun at the local co-op ,
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ELAINE: There is always the question, who you ‘kick out’. For example, if you are senile and helpless, and aren’t rich or have a good family, you can’t afford to be cared for. So society does this in the more civilized nations. Or if you are disabled and not rich, ditto. The list is long. Who do you kick out?
I was and still am for birth control of mothers on welfare. If you get welfare, you have to have birth control or abortions until you get off the rolls. This stops the accumulation of welfare babies who see no one working, ever. But guess who won’t let us do this sane thing?
Christians! The Pope! The GOP! See? If we do implement this sort of sane (Chinese) system, the conspiracy people would be screaming like hell, just for example. So we live with crap because of strange religious beliefs.
Best thing about Krugman is that he writes without using numbers and charts, making it harder to nail down how stupid he really is.
OTOH there are a few brilliant economists who do write with numbers and charts, and even pictures.
Some of these brilliants claim levitation rights with the Queer Goddess who sanctifies their offerings.
I meant Queen Goddess.
Gotta go. Lizard soup tonight.
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ELAINE: Are you talking about your wife? Or are you too impossible to live with?
no need for sarcasm but the new pills perscribed was called carvedilol, after the meention of carving me to shreds, i lol ?”
Krugman is an idiot
You Elaine, sometimes, like here, and with your comment about how all the religions have evolved from the movement of the stars, appear genius
You are a baffling female liberal.
mention
mike
serious stuff the heart, and the medical cost are staggering .. with no end in sight. best to you and may the top quality care possible come your way,,
Economists like to pretend that the free rider issue is some huge problem. It isn’t. Incidences of free ridering all disperse over time.
I find it interesting though that while there is a brouhaha over free riders, there is nothing ever said about forced riders. Being a forced rider is never a voluntary thing. You might not believe in or benefit from or wish to be associated with some thing or idea or program or project. If there is a way to withhold your participation and a way to not contribute then there is no problem. Mostly there is no way to avoid being a forced rider. That you individually might wish no parts of something does not stop the people with the power to force you to join or contribute.
Elaine’s co-op example response, she and hers kicked out the free riders, no forced riders no free riders, everyone involved became happier.
Elaine’s lament in her response, that the co-op and herself had no en forcement authority to force the people to contribute.
While it is probably natural to look for free riders and to feel aggrieved that they somehow found a way to costlessly benefit at your imaginary expense, it is educational to consider all the things that you are a forced rider of whether you support it or not.
All empires have to have enforced riders. And all empires accumulate bigger and bigger populations of free loaders and people who suck up vast wealth while doing nothing very useful. Or toxic like how our immense finance industry was simply dumping debt on our heads while at the same time, funding the transfer of our jobs to Asia.
Without the ability to enforce ridership, empires dissolve quickly.
eo ems
your system is a magnet for free loaders is it not .. the socialist wet dream… marxien at the height of its sanctions or the gun at the head of the producers
@ELAINE: Are you talking about your wife? Or are you too impossible to live with?
Naw, I had to give up women.
They kept getting pregnant.
emc
so who do you kick out .
that was not the issue .. the issue you emc are for the public purse taking care of many things .. your private purse is closed ..
so those mothers who refuse birth control .. off the system .. but they have insurance under the marxien system .. so that cost is taken care of,
they also have the right to eat,, free food stamps ..
me under the public purse … some sanity… the social security system is a fund paid for out of contributions .. by the individual and business ,, of course that cost is mpassed on to the nconsumer .. so in effect this system has had a bENEFICAL aspect.. albeit other ways would have been better ..
society at large ,, under a free market .. would have the excess funds to bankroll these efforts a lot cheaper and more efficient than .. government ,
shriners for children , childrens hospital in seattle offers free care for needy from all over the wo9rld . . boys ranch provided free care for youth with out .. and a list goes on and on.. gates provides billions ,, sinclair built a hospital in tanzana,, .. nobody forces thes things on any.. and i suspect elaine would give the shirt off her back to provide a meal and shelter for others ..
like wise all over the world a free and prosperious world .. sans the billions stolen by the elite.. could bankroll the sick the hungry and with spare ,,
when the aggreate plunder on top of the private austrian model is taken into effect.. i suspect w.c would not exclude any …. and would be in my nature to provide. and help and nourish.
eratta trillions stolen
I would imagine that EMS would indeed give the shirt off her back, that is not the issue, it is her shirt, her back and her decision. The issue is that she would give the shirt off my back, your back and everyone elses back and brook no resistance from those of us who might have a better use for the shirt than the use she has determined. She would see no evil in sending the agents of repression and governance against any who were insufficiently enamoured of this or that currently fashionable “human need.”
Charity is a virtue
Forced charity is theft, not a virtue.
Now if we were to use forced charity on merkins to feed, clothe, educate, medicate, arm and reward the Palestinians …
ems is a conundrum.
(sp) lol
pretty hazy thinking ..
one for all ,, and all for one .. at the public trough, i am the king of bunkers hill i can fight and i can kill from the private purse.
ck
socialist come from a elite group of thinkers ,, most feast on their feet as tenured public educational teachers .
public officials on the public payroll.
those who in their life have not scared up the dough from savings,, and then risking that in the public market,, (except of course for wal-mart shoppers )
it is my contention that most even on this public blog ,, who are for the goodies, lip away at producers, scream foul at someone who spends some of his own dough on a private thing.. who can take an idea to market, finance it, risk all, produce jobs, pay people real wages out of profit. these blog folks dispise profit yadda .. and are those who make the loudest noise saying nothing…. and promote the idea of cradle to grave every thing.. as they are there already, but don’t have more lol
also the folks with nothing .. waste time , get drunk, acid heads, the 18 kids to one mother 8 fathers idea, walk in purple bubbles of futureloitering , and assorted hanger oner’s would like nothing more than to free lunch the population to death.
Off topic, but breaking and interesting:
Obama adviser Jones resigns amid controversy
Environmental official had signed 9/11 petition, disparaged Republicans
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32712017/ns/politics-white_house/?GT1=43001
Here we have Exhibit A, the infamous August 6, 2001 memo warning of Bin-Laden wanting to strike,
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/80601pdb.html
(Curious, I wonder if the redacted parts refer to any Israeli intelligence).
Then,
8:45 am, Sept. 11 2001: we have one tower hit, and 3 planes confirmed off course with no contact with the cabin. Vice President Cheney is coordinating the response from an undisclosed location and the air force is nowhere in sight.
Contrary to the assertion that signing the petition is indicative of a ‘radical position’, one would have to be either brain dead or outright treasonous not to entertain suspicions that clearly rise to the level of warranting ‘hearings and other investigations into whether high-level government officials had allowed the attacks to occur’.
Hello, is anyone at the Justice Department paying attention?????
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ELAINE: This is the result of the ‘bombs in the buildings’ stupidity. Namely, sane and rational demands for a full accounting of all aspects of 9/11 have been KILLED. Now, anyone calling for this is derided as a lunatic. See? This is why I begged everyone years ago to drop the bombs business and concentrate ONLY on the ‘what the hell were they doing, nothing at all?’ business which was provable and easy to track and tackle.
Now, the entire thing is dead in the water. And I can’t talk about it here without the endless howls about stupid bombs. Got it now? Thanks in advance.
there are two opposite poles of “being” in the world that are in opposition and always be. one type is the “social reformer” who basically sees the general welfare as depending on the more or less suppression of the individual….”individual” is a bad word to them. and there is the other pole, the spiritual leader who looks for improvement only in the individual. i.e. freedoms in the constitution, the spiritual freedoms. elaine is the former, i am the latter type….but of course no desire to be any leader whatsoever. the world needs both to keep heaven and earth in balence….in tension so “it” can grow. but the types, the opposite poles have to be in balance. if my type predominates, we would have happy eden with no responsiblities to speak of, but with contented people laying around scratching, drinking, fornicating, and burping and generally enjoying themselves sitting on old car seats on their front porches. if elaines type completely dominates and manages to take over a society, the first thing they do once they have the power is create internal secret police to terrorize the population and be rid of free thinkers…..think CHEKA and GESTAPO.
elaine types really want to “improve” the world and that basically can be really dangerous if this becomes too one sided. my type says if everyone spiritually improved themselves, the world would be just fine. the end.
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ELAINE: You are not only an ‘individual’ but also part of a ‘family’ which you harp on here all the time (evidently, a very troubled family in dire need of social interventions) and you are part of a ‘community’ and a ‘nation’ and the ‘human race’ and the Planet Earth itself. Pretending you are a lone ranger is crazy.
Fool-on-the-hill, I agree the Jones case is very disheartening.
The sensible majority in America has not yet realized that the dogmatic rightwing hoons that are the Sturmabteilung of the ruling elite are gutter fighters who follow no rules except “bash the other guy with whatever comes to hand”.
It’s not just their stand on 9/11 in the Jones debacle that is absurd. I mean, the official position is a conspiracy theory in its own right, but since it *is* the official government position it never gets called that.
Then there’s the other double standard: complaining about Jones crudely dissing Republicans (who well deserve it!). This from people whose beloved torturemonger VP told a Senator to “Go fuck yourself” right in the Senate.
They use one set of rules for themselves, called “anything goes” and another set for us, called “anything you do is treason, and we’ll kill you for it”.
I’d like to start using their own tactics on them for a change.
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ELAINE: They definitely have a double standard like all bullies. But then, we are seeing things becoming more and more debased as our empire implodes. A bad sign.
I think Elaine’s parked her tush on more than one car seat on a front porch. I bet she’s got a couple rusting away on the back 40. But you have a point, can’t do anything unless it starts with self-improvement.
Labor day doldrums… went to the mall again… had some girl at the ‘RAVE’ chic youth dogma store asking us how things were going… kinda like a wal-mart greeter but better lookin’…
also the folks with nothing .. waste time , get drunk, acid heads, the 18 kids to one mother 8 fathers idea, walk in purple bubbles of futureloitering , and assorted hanger oner’s would like nothing more than to free lunch the population to death.
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Dont fret white boi Ill’ git drunk for you k
W.C
krugman
is a example of staged commentary about .. balls of string and wet papers sacks. like al gore in 2008 a nobel peace prize lol
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in CIV IV al gore is the lowest leadership score ‘as opposed to ceaser or Lincoln’
You always have an interesting read, even when I don’t agree with you Elaine and generally I don’t. But, Krugman isn’t anything other than a headline grabbing idiot who sold someone on the idea he knew something. The failure of the Nobel Prize in Economics winning ideas over the past 20 years has shown the prize is aimed more toward those that justify the errors of banking and wall street than honest economics. Your quote about maintaining the status quo is right on. Your brand of socialism is also right on, in that it is voluntary. I believe the US was set up to prohibit modern socialism while also prohibiting the titles of nobility enjoyed by Wall Street and the banking community. I don’t believe the general welfare of the people of the US involved taking from one group and giving to another, nor did it involve giving one group or a few individuals the regulated right to monopolize any business. It is clear from what I can understand about the current mess that not only have international bankers controlled economics in the western world, but are the problem in itself. The war machine is one of the great jokes in history, as war most likely created the great depression with all the debt created out of world war I, along with the Federal Reserve itself. One of the most interesting articles I have read the past year was the one you put out about the zero interest rate policy and what it has done to Japan. It is clear that only a few people have enough savings to exist on principal alone and that the bulk of wealth shifts from those who were thrifty and saved to those that are priviledged to create money and large bonuses on a current account. The current problem is a debt problem, an overspending problem and a desire to have without giving problem.
DM
.. didn’t learn anything in grade school?
maybe it was quayle
thanks WC for your thoughts.
i have always thought of our dear author whenever i read this. heh.
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“….Eve, began to act up. She began to question the so-called reality of her show, which was known by the title: GENESIS: In the Beginning.
Eve sat naked on her haunches beneath the forest canopy, alert as always to the sights and sounds of Eden, while Daddy, who was called Adam, snored bearishly at her side. Adam could not seem to get enough of the good things in the Garden, and spent much of his day in a somnolent state, occasionally muttering, in the peculiar argot of those times, “This is as good as it gets.”
Eve was not so sure. She had seen distorted faces reflected in dewdrops, heard urgent things in the whisper of the giant ferns. Unsettling things. She had sensed the presence of Others. And yet, there were no others, were there? Surely, the watchful eyes of the timid tree creatures could not alone account for her feeling that she walked in the shadow of another reality.
Adam’s belly was filled with the ripe fruit of the Garden; Eve’s belly was filled with Adam’s seed. She touched her swollen breasts, and it was then she heard her own name called from afar. She rose and followed the call to the depths of the forest, where there stood a tree whose alluring red fruit she had been warned in a dream not to eat. Dangling by its tail from a low branch was a creature with the body of a salamander and a face eerily familiar to Eve, a face not unlike her own.
“Who? Are? You?” the serpent mouthed.
“I don’t know,” said Eve, not having thought a lot about it.
“Why play along,” the serpent asked, “when you know the show is rigged? Why remain in prison when the cell door is open?”
“Where is this door?” asked Eve, innocently enough.
The serpent rolled its eyes upward, beyond the leafy canopy to the radiance above. Eve’s gaze followed, and lingered, and when she looked again at the tree, the shiny, red fruit was before her.
“Take. Eat,” said the serpent.
“Then I shall surely die,” said Eve.
“Only on television,” said the serpent. “Only to illusion.”
And Eve ate, and was amazed, and ran back to rouse Adam from his torpor, saying, “Try this! It’s amazing….”
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“Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.” 18 USC 2381.
At a minimum, this requires at least intentionally benefiting an enemy. Enemies must be public, usually by Congressional declaration of war. . . Now, bear with me. At present, the United States has only declared enemies: War on Drugs and War on Terror.
“As used in this chapter–
(1) the term “international terrorism” means activities that–
(A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended–
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum;
(2) the term “national of the United States” has the meaning given such term in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act;
(3) the term “person” means any individual or entity capable of holding a legal or beneficial interest in property;
(4) the term “act of war” means any act occurring in the course of–
(A) declared war;
(B) armed conflict, whether or not war has been declared, between two or more nations; or
(C) armed conflict between military forces of any origin; and
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that–
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended–
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.” 18 U.S.C.A. 2331
So, arguably these days any U.S. citizen can be guilty of treason if they knowingly aid any organization or nation that commits acts of terrorism. Where does that leave a U.S. citizen who helps an organization if that organization engages in assasination or terrorism, say, via proxy, and the U.S. citizen knows it? Jail?
-justiceatsqualor
More Lizard Poopaganda.
http://cofcc.org/?p=6589
@justiceatsqualor
“Investigate traitors”
Past due, long since.
Let’s start with Lee Hamilton, whose committee investigated 9/11 and never mentioned Bldg. #7.
Plove
Let’s start with Lee Hamilton, whose committee investigated 9/11 and never mentioned Bldg. #7.
that bldg didn’t count,, as their were just two planes lol
oh said lee h ,, that bldg. we thought nobody would notice,
O.Hidden
Who? Are? You?” the serpent mouthed.
“I don’t know,” said Eve, not having thought a lot about it.
good laugh thanks
@OH & wc: it’s useless trying to debate spirituality with Elaine. She is on a different page. Leave her be. The baggage she carries from her childhood has a very deep bearing on her relationship, or lack or one, with God. We all have our crosses to carry. In time, maybe not in this lifetime, she will eventually reach a level of emotional understanding to develop a relationship with the Creator. Until then the karmas that stand between her perceived Darkness and our Lightness will remain. We all went thought this one way or another. Better to concentrate on your task at hand. Put the fire out in your own house, first. 🙂
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ELAINE: Without exception, all ancient religions have very strong ties to being hit by lightning. People try to minimize this these days due to living in houses and thus, not being hit all the time or being scared of lightning. I have been hit 3 times while indoors. So I have the older belief systems due to real life experiences.
The Creator happens to be Mother Nature and her many Laws like the Laws of Gravity, for example. And the even stranger Creator is Lady Luck who runs the casino of the Universe and who is the main agent in evolutionary systems. Thinking there is the entity that does it magically is silly but common. Unless you consider evolution and laws of nature to be magical which is OK. Most humans operate on this basis.
On the issue of free-riders, game theory, and human interaction, I highly recommend Robert Wright’s book “non-zero.” Tom Parsons, he uses game theory to look at the history of human interaction over time, on a large scale. Pretty much all trade/interaction, in which each party benefits (a non-zero-sum outcome = win-win or lose-lose; but not win-lose) advances the well-being of the world. It’s a very impressive book. One example of non-zero interaction is nuclear war: it’s a lose-lose proposition, so it’s in both sides’ best interest to prevent nuclear war (they both avoid a negative outcome).
I liked Wright’s books (Non-zero and The Moral Animal, which delves in issues of reciprocal altruism, kin selection and what it means to be moral in terms of natural selection and evolution) so much, I just opened his latest book (which I fortuitously happened upon at the library yesterday and haven’t wanted to put down), called “The Evolution of God.”
Elaine, you MUST read it. You may be right that God in the Bible is the image of God created by men based on their circumstances of the time, which somehow had to comfort the brains of the humans of which the religious system occupied. So our concept of God evolved over time. He says “The best way to explain the centuries-long evolution from polytheism to monolatry to monotheism is via concrete social forces … politics and economics gave us the one true god of the Abrahamic faiths.”
That isn’t to say there isn’t a true God independent of our concept of God. Wright lays out what this may be for him – wisdom, or rational thought apart from emotion and our base desires. God created this Logos or rules for the world before He created the world. He also created this logos inside all of us. One prophet of this wisdom or Logos is Philo, the Alexandrian Jewish philosopher of Jesus’ era, amongst others. The fact that humanity is progressing in it’s moral development is proof for him of this Logos or God.
He describes two opposing schools of thought on religion. One, he calls the “Marxist” Hahaha, that’s you, views religion as a scam that benefits only the elite /priests. This is also the view of the cynic (again you) that says religion is self-serving. H.L. Mencken said of religion – “Its single function is to give man access to the powers which seem to control his destiny, and its single purpose is to induce those powers to be friendly to him …. Nothing else is essential.”
Opposite this cynical view is the “functionalist,” who see religion as serving the interests of society as a whole – that’s my view. William James wrote religion “consists of the belief that there is an unseen order, and that our supreme good lies in harmoniously adjusting ourselves thereto,” – which again fits my view.
There’s too much in the book for me to go on and on about it more, but it’s all incredibly fascinating if you want to understand religion from a “materialist” point of view (which oh claims you have).
But I still don’t get you. One day you claim “I belong to no religion at all.” The next day you claim “Paganism is a religion. I am a Pagan.” Why the confusion / dishonesty?
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ELAINE: I hoped you figured out how to read me by now. All religions are human attempts at trying to create social groupings which require RULES. These rules have to be very stern or people KILL EACH OTHER. We are cannibals who need to be restricted via manual means since our brains are hardwired, thanks to evolution (the cannibals survived, their dinners didn’t) to cease being cannibals or we can’t live together. See?
This is a scary thought. I have had my own parents tell me that parents love their children and in the next breath, tell me to drop dead and die. I grew up seeing the yin/yang insanity that inhabits all human brains which TORMENT us terribly since evolution turned us into killers.
We are predators. The ‘powers’ that Mencken is referring to that he has to ‘induce…to be friendly’ is this desire to be cannibals that has to be curbed! So, we do the sane thing: we transfer this dangerous urge into our gods. Which is why all of them are ultimately death gods, incidentally. Something that scares us.
On the other hand, in the Bible, the earliest snarls of this particular Death God is all about FEARING IT OR WE DIE. See? Ahem.
CC
Put the fire out in your own house, first. 🙂
the bucket leaks .. much of the commentary is directed to w.c. outer self as a reminder.
and is intended for a bit of goo to close holes in the bucket //
to pharaphrase walt whitman
these are the facts jack,, but you must find out your self ,, no emperical evidence here ,, just a trail so wide and evidence so deep that only a” dare i say it,,” mer@#n will not see. lol
@OH
You do know that Eve(y) was Adam’s second wife?
Lilith was the first and Lilith was a hottie.
But Lilith was not made from scraps of Adam. Lilith was complete and equal and didn’t take a lotta crap.
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ELAINE: Lilith was God’s mother-in-law. Also known as ‘Lady Luck’. 🙂
Plovering: you never said where is your second home?
I saw a meeting tonight, marked and illuminated by the glow of grounded hot air balloons.
K-BO
this is the very premise brought forth in marchette chute’s work .. “The Search for God”
the entire old testament is just that “she adds” a reflection of the times,, and it just one or two places do we find the real God,, .
the old testament being a record of periods of time .. the era of forgotten times . symbolized as a sir name.
and I found this description from Wright about his book The Moral Animal particularly fitting for Elaine’s point of view. “The book seemed like a thoroughly materialist tract – materialist as in ‘scientific materialist,’ as in ‘Science can explain everything in material terms, so who needs a God? Especially a God who is alleged to somehow magically transcend the material universe’.”
Science MIGHT explain how the universe formed, but not the why of the universe. Why does it exist? What is its purpose or meaning? What does science say about What is the value of the human person?
Skeptics assert a relativistic morality – let everyone have their own religion and figure out what is right for them. Nobody should judge another. But we have a universal sense of right and wrong – we’re all upset by free-riders and evil-doers, for instance. So maybe there is a universal truth or morality or God in all of us, and scientific advances and globalization make religion MORE relevant today, not less so. We should approach the topic of religion, morality, and spirituality rationally, not emotionally. That’s why I keep asking Elaine to quit bashing others’ religions emotionally.
I appreciate the realism with which the pagan’s appear to have created their calendar. A party every 45 days and a 5 day bender once a year is not a bad way to divide a year. Giving shout outs to the things that can mess you up forestfire, flood, lots of fast air, mudslides; praising the old rampant maypole; music and dancing…yes a revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having. And not a whole lot of forced tithing, forced niceness. I can approve of this as the start of a calendar making endeavour.
@wc: as the saying, “practice, practice and more practice”. After mush study and seeking, lots of homework and cross reference, and a path decided, stay focused on the practice, the rest is fluff; Maya hunting you down. Practice until the result is forthcoming. Practice not preaching gets the result. But hey, its a learning curve and I too must practice what I preach. Till the I-ness withers away. 🙂
Asking why of the inanimate is not profitable. The inaminate being not alive has not motives and does not deign to answer.
Asking what is the value of a human being now there’s the rub. But let me answer that it depends on who is doing the buying and what the use of the purchase will be.
Component wise the human is worth about $5.00 unless you want to value the water component as bottled water, then we are quite a bit more valuable, maybe $20.00.
For Life Insurance Settlement buy out purposes for the securitization of human death, the Life Insurance companies give a very low cash out, the settlement buyers give a higher value to the remains of the days of our lives.
If we go by the amount expended on keeping the dying alive a marginal extra minute, the value of a 90 year old’s next marginal minute is hugely higer than the value of an 20 years olds next marginal minute. But these are economic calculations not science.
I am not upset at free riders … being a forced rider is upsetting to me.
Evil doers … whom specifically? As a generic category, each human can fill in his or her own occupants of the evil doer niche.
I suspect that many pakistanis now think of the faceless US airmen guiding the drones as Evil Doers and cowardly ones at that.
One man’s evil doer is another man’s Geo Washington, J. Christ, S. Bolivar, A. Sadat, King George III.
Ah the greatness that could have been the USA had it only offered and guaranteed freedom FROM religion.
In fact and quite literally, I saw a meeting tonight marked and illuminated by grounded hot air balloons. Fantastic mixture and display of long-weekend conspicuous-consumption, fraternal-conspiratorial-flair, as well as practical secrecy in a ready made crowd of onlookers.
Illuminists? What say you illuminator?
Wizard of Oz, at least. . .
Shelburne museum. . .
you are right cc. elaine asked me nicely to go away the only other poster she has said that to that i know of was poor buffalo ken who i thought was growing in leaps and bounds. you are right cc. i will keep my yap shut the only problem is i like you all especially including elaine. and who knows what has happened in the past of the crusty codger CK for him to have such sharp meaningful entertaining observations. david would know what to say too. the “where the spirit meets harsh reality” thing was what drew me i am sure. i regarded that motto as both purpose and invitation…..like inviting a vampire into your house. heh. maybe i should move on sorry for fucking up the board.
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ELAINE: I invite people to leave if they whine too much. Why the hell are you here? I wonder about this since you seem unable to read what I write. I love arguing with people who read things. Arguing with people who skip everything is lousy and annoying as all hell.
@OH
BK was scrollable.
You aren’t.
all right i will stop posting but first i have just a few more things….i.e. surely all must know that, for example, Pegasus generally appears as a positive instinctive force of the unconscious? and libra and astronomy? what was that really all about? the ancients were not stupid, just not utterly ignorant as most moderns are to some very important things. and i what say others to this previous question of mine. i.e. is ethics, not morality, an achievement of conscious man and his culture??? or is there already an ethic in the unconscious psychic structure of man.
so what can you say to a close relative who is on suicide watch with one of their own kids i wonder….i better figure that out fast. i can’t the emptiness of modern man….that won’t help any.
burger king? here picture alfred e neuman or beetle bailey expressions since i cannot figure out how to make smileys.
i admit i am totally unconscious to much of what our modern life regards as important now (except for the hip phenomenon of plastic lips and great big lips as being “improvements”) and “life” literally is passing me by and good riddance go yer own way sez i.
tits! plastic tits and great big (plastic) lips. gads. not done well at all.
@OH: no need to stop posting bro, just maybe avoid the spiritual debate with Elaine. Positions and perspectives have been given by all sides, and we have expressed ourselves and as has she. Nothing more needed on that account. Spirituality is personal, economics is general, take it in that light.
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Tell your relative that suicide in the eyes of God is the worst crime a human can commit. You do not pass Go and collect $200, it’s a ticket straight to Hell. That is a much, much more inconvenient than anything you can go through in this life. I kid you not. Good luck with that amigo.
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ELAINE: I love the fact that Mother Nature doesn’t give a damn how you die. You can kill yourself, be eaten by sharks, avoid vaccinations and then die of a communicable disease: She isn’t going to punish you. You are dead, after all? Creating systems where gods get to do hideous things to you just because you are dead is kind of…sadistic. 🙂
@OH:
That was a compliment. After the first week of BK being here, it was: see his initials, scroll until past his assault of posting.
It is never possible to dismiss your postings, to disagree with them sure, to dismiss them no.
I do not understand exactly what issues you have with mammary aggrandizement by plastic or lip enlargement by buttfat implantation. It is her body, if she wants it to look that way it is her decision. If later she is dissatisfied with the results that accrue she can pay to have the process reversed; when she runs out of money for process reversal medicare will kick in.
OH asks: “so what can you say to a close relative who is on suicide watch with one of their own kids …” If you know the kid well, talk to the kid. If you are looking for the why of the kid’s desire to not be, the kid is probably the one with the answer.
Magic word bullets don’t exist.
How’s the grandson coming along as farm help? Did he enjoy anything specific like repairing tractors or planting stuff or working on the buildings?
@OH&CC
Let me strongly disagree with CC’s suggestion that you tell the relative his kid is going straight to hell. Probably not what the relative is wanting to hear and simultaneously re-inforcing of the kid’s decision to go someplace interesting and away from all the whatever it is that is not to his liking. The religious love death threats and Gods whose only use is eternal punishments.
One of those things that CC and I would disagree on. I own myself. When I decide it is time to depart, I will depart. I own my parts, when I decide to depart, my useables will be sold and the non useables go onto the pyre. My raspberries and blueberries will benefit from the ashes. Passerbys will dine on me and I will be blissfully unaware.
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ELAINE: Lady Luck and Mother Nature get to decide when you depart except if you commit suicide.
I see that Obama is wanting to give a speech to the schoolkids, and the usual suspects are all dismayed that the president wants to despoil the minds of merkin ute.
What is he going to say? “Break out of prison you lazy little drones and go to work shining shoes and delivering webcontent?”
Maybe: “Learn a trade, get a vocation, find something you love and develop a calling?”
Maybe: ” Maths is hard, mandarin is hard, pick two.”
No: his speech will extoll staying the course in afghanischool. Why bother with blather.
On the good side it is a quarter of an hour the kids don’t have to listen to a local numbnuts.
Now here is how you do Leader in School
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-09/06/content_12005119.htm
Wall Street is getting set to ‘securitize’ death:
The bankers plan to buy “life settlements,” life insurance policies that ill and elderly people sell for cash — $400,000 for a $1 million policy, say, depending on the life expectancy of the insured person. Then they plan to “securitize” these policies, in Wall Street jargon, by packaging hundreds or thousands together into bonds. They will then resell those bonds to investors, like big pension funds, who will receive the payouts when people with the insurance die.
The earlier the policyholder dies, the bigger the return — though if people live longer than expected, investors could get poor returns or even lose money.
Either way, Wall Street would profit by pocketing sizable fees for creating the bonds, reselling them and subsequently trading them. But some who have studied life settlements warn that insurers might have to raise premiums in the short term if they end up having to pay out more death claims than they had anticipated.
Posted without commentary:
http://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm
#427 Dead Marine.
CK thank you. fred disappoints only in that i notice no comments from the peanut gallery, much like all jungian websites. heh.
and about the nipper, he is with me always CK. age 6 with so many questions. and i just had quite a conversation with the wife. she gives up on his mother, her daughter….and mine. i say there will come a time when daughter is surely completely fed up with having absolutely nothing….hopefully before she gets herself beat to death by “her man”….and when that time comes and she asks for help, we have to give it. wife says not.
well boy is at my shoulder again so outside we go into the great adventure he apparently believes awaits him….probably much like the lance corporal.
“richard” wife hollars for me to tell him to brush his teeth.
so whats it all mean, jean?
“grandpa, what kind of guy is this again?”, holding a toy predator fellow. my life is overful when all i want is a hermit cave somewhere for ages….as long as i have heat, plumbing, clean linen, few bugs eating me at night, and wife drops me dinner daily. heh. “grandpa!”, “richard!”, and son is due any minute so we can attend to injured cow. gads!
Once upon a time, 50+ years ago, I remember being with my grandad for a while. I remember asking him a question and him telling me that he didn’t rightly know the answer but that together we could maybe find out. Sometimes you find out, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes we built things … right we … he did the work I asked the questions and handed him this or that tool or piece of wood.
Today I am working on some almost totally shaded areas in the back lawn. A misspent childhood led to one answer for me, might be of some use to you and your grandboy.
And has the virtue of maturing in 5 years and selling for huge amounts of spendable money to the only nation that will have real money five years from now.
http://www.wildgrown.com/
Planting them this labour day.
I had a close friend who apparently took her life, and I’ve had trouble forgiving her, even though it’s been years. There were prior attempts, but success was really devastating. It ended up killing her mother. Someone who takes their own life is doing unimaginable harm to those who have know them. It leaves un-fillable holes. We used to go to alot of museums; I can’t go to D.C. anymore without getting a creepy, empty feeling.
Having your grandson with you, OH, is a blessing. On the bright side, it gives you a captive audience for your b.s. (no insult intended), although you can’t control what he chooses to ignore. Believe it or not, you are the most valuable member of society, and passing that on is essential to our survival.
We have many forms of suicide. Some are obvious and others, less so. We live in a suicidal culture because we live in a MAD world: that is, ‘Mutual ASSURED Destruction’ which is all about nuclear missiles and bombs.
This is our CULTURE. I run ‘Culture of Life News’ which is anti-MAD and anti- anti-science and I believe in the intellect as well as feelings and BALANCING both on the scales so they are equal.
This means finessing information, getting many details and looking at things from close up as well as far off.
And then talking about what I see. Suicide is when people give up and decide, it is better to end existence rather than live and love. Usually, this is all about hate. Hate is easy. All you have to do is be mean.
Loving is hard. You have to do this in the teeth of meaness.
“We live in a suicidal culture …” No. We live under homicidal statist politicians. Politicians are not culture.
“Loving is hard. ” Easiest thing in the world. Do it several times a day, would do it several times an hour but I would get de hydrated from all the drooling and panting.”
Suicide is indeed when a person decides that it is time to take the lampshade off the head and leave the party. Milked it for all there was, enjoyed it from the rim to the dregs, ate it up spat out the gristle and went back for seconds. Now the race is run, there is nothing more to add to the books, exit as gracefully or as noxiously at you wish but call the line and exit on your own schedule.
Your life, your loves, your world, your timing your exit.
And Elaine spake thusly: “ELAINE: Lady Luck and Mother Nature get to decide when you depart except if you commit suicide.”
No death gods need apply. With the three graces; Luck, Nature and Yourself, you have all the exits covered.
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ELAINE: ‘Exit on your OWN schedule’ means suicide. Otherwise, other forces take your life: you get hit by a car careening off the road and smashing into your living room. Or you get sick and die (courtesy of the Germ Empire or your genetic freakiness) or your body wears out and the heart ceases or you get Alzheimers and can’t remember your own name. There are many ways Nature and Lady Luck kills but only one where you ‘exit’ on your own time, that is, drinking hemlock. Or drinking booze, for that matter 🙂
Sorry, but that’s reallynot true CK. In the course of one’s life one makes attachments, one take from others, and gives. That’s part of not growing up in a vacuum. You are not your own person to the extent that there are others dependant on you for whatever reason. That’s the price you pay for not being theodore kaczynski, and even he was educatied at public expense. When the pain becomes so unbearable that you must negate these obligations, you still owe to those who need you an explanation that you must leave. I realize that the ‘free riders’ don’t bother you; this attitude is socially a ride-for-free pass.
@Larry:
So sorry sir but it isn’t all about you and your hurt feelings that someone decided it was time to leave and didn’t ask your opinion or weigh your self aggrandized costs in her decision. She is beyond the effects of your “trouble forgiving her.” You are your own person, no one elses; or you are the property of anyone who claims that they own you and you owe them.
You are not even owed an explanation beyond that which is obvious. She no longer wanted to be here, so she left.
Your pain is not a claim, your tears are not a value added, your self-centeredness is not a virtue she had to acknowledge and she apparently didn’t.
“I can’t go to D.C. anymore without getting a creepy, empty feeling.” So? There are many other and better museums to visit. Ones without concrete citizen barriers and retarded fear mongers in uniform.
“ELAINE: ‘Exit on your OWN schedule’ means suicide. ” Well yes it does Captain Obvious. I own my life and my own death too. There are exactly three entities that can take end your life: Mother Nature, Sister Luck and Yourself. The Three Graces.
I expect that when the time comes for me to say sayonarra I will use the same cocktail that a good vet uses to drop an old Shire or a really large dog. If Mother Nature or Sister Luck gets to me first well that just leaves that cocktail for someone else to use.
This is a continuation of a previous post of mine regarding the US president’s speech to the children of merka tomorrow.
Some interesting points which I assume are truth because I have no way of showing they aren’t:
Obama was home schooled while he lived in Indonesia.
Obama slept through those classes and his mom was a passive aggressive teacher.
…. the whole speech is on DKos and somewhere on whitehouse.gov… it is pablum
It is worse than pablum, is it pablum made with HFCS and Artificial flavours and colours. Amorphous glorification of nothing.
What it comes down to is this: Stay in school because there is nothing for you in the unprisoned world. No Jobs, no respect, no values. It is the admission that no one needs these kids so they should stay in their state prisons and get their useless degrees and then move on to the next level of useless baby sitting.
It is Sad.
@CK & OH: would like to post a more complete response but have lots to do today. Will get back to this later. I do not disagree with you CK on the “my life is my own”, that is a given. My suggestion was to inform, not convince. Ignorance of the Law is no excuse, whether you believe, agree or ignore it. Before anyone decides to make a major life altering decision it is always best to have complete information on hand. Bad decisions more often than mot are a result of lack of homework. Stupidity is optional.
so. death. so much to say, but better not push it. heh.
oh hell, just this. in 1991 i saw spontaneously my “wheel of life” during the day, sitting in my living room with my wife and she never noticed a thing. course she ignores me much as possible, but anyway, i saw a bunch of lives i had lived and this present life as “me”, is just another in a long, long series of miserable hardscrabble lives learning my lessons the hard way mostly. i saw it for myself and i do not want to hear one word about tricks of the mind or imagination or anything else. nobody in the world knows more about this than i do cause trust me on this, i investigated all there is to know. there is no “faith” or “belief” whatsoever about this, i know. and i have no real opinion about suicide. none whatsoever….speaking in teh abstract. you will just move on to another life after some time. ..some blind annoying people may return as say ….toads….some will return as investment banksters….or the revolutionaries who get to hang them. actually i don’t know about the toad part. weasels maybe.
@ Openly Hidden – Hey, thanks for sharing your metaphysical experience with us.
Our adventures out of the 3rd dimensional prison we call Earth are usually rare and limited opportunities. We get a chance to see beyond this wordly veil of sorrows – perhaps a brief excursion into the future or the past, a breech of what we term ” time “.
The whole enchilada of cosmic consciousness is way too spicy for us to digest in our present state of being. But if we are open, and work very diligently in that direction, we are often rewarded with a little taste. An appetizer- and it’s not to everyone’s liking.
For the few, the very few, no work is necessary . These are the gifted. It’s a wonderful blessing in one’s life to actually meet someone like this. But it goes without saying, that unless you have done the necessary groundwork for yourself, a person will NOT be able to distinquish between the real Mccoy and the metaphysical charlatan – of which there are PLENTY.
It’s sad that in your post you were automatically defensive when relating your experience. I know the feeling well. It comes from being subjected to ridicule from those who are CLUELESS about these types of experiences.
My own metaphysical journeys take the form of lucid and precognitive dreams.The precognitive dreams are warnings that prepare me for what’s ahead. These dreams are of an entirely different nature from regular dreams . Regular dreams, if you can remember them, are mostly just a rehash and scrambled up affair of our daily lives and our own fears. They’re a way for your subconcious to clear out a lot of emotional clutter and garbage and keep you sane and functioning in an insane world. Pharmaceuticals that knock out the REM ( dream ) stage of sleep are very harmful .
More on the precogs later….if you’re interested that is.
About those lessons you have to learn the hard way – care to share them ? My precogs give me insight into what’s coming, but zero insight into what lessons I’m supposed to be learning.
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ELAINE: I got the shortcut to the Cosmos when a very large lightning bolt connected with me when I was a small child. 🙂
@CK: to understand where I am coming from we need to have a basis for discussion. I have deposited a book for you to read at: http://tinyurl.com/l6oadt
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Let me know once you’ve read it, I am sure at the very least it will stimulate your grey matter to a questionable degree. Oh, and sorry about the paging, I converted it from a Word file to PDF so the Table of Contents is off. My apologies.
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@Elaine: your so called “Mother Nature” or “Lady Luck” is a system, not a personality. The Law of Cause and Effect. Laws work within set parameters, they are not open to compassion or evil, and impart the precise result of a given stimulus or action. Punishment is a guilt trip tool used by religion. Wrong page, again, Elaine. Still thinking in one dimensional terms, eh? Anyway, if a big bad god with lots of attitude and stupidity works for you, hell, knock yourself out! 😉
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ELAINE: DUH!!!! Glad you figured out the obvious!!!! As for ‘compassion’: um, I detect precious little compassion in ANY human-created gods! And you have been here a long, long time and I hoped you mastered ‘comprehensive reading’. Note that repeatedly I mention that I use these names for ELEMENTAL FORCES because personalizing them makes it easier to understand them. For example, there is no lady with the scales at the Gates of Death but the ELEMENT of the CONCEPT of ‘Libra’ is that we have to remember all the stupid things we did when we were alive because this is the way our brains are wired. Dressing it up in ‘god garb’ is how we humans think about all this.
Lady Luck isn’t a nasty dame rolling knucklebone dice. But thinking of random chance this way is great for visualizing impersonal forces at work in the Universe. See? Let me know if understanding all this troubles you. It obviously flies in the face of your desire to believe in gods cooked up by human brains that you approve of or cling to.
@CC: downloaded the pdf, will read after breakfast.
Where you say “Before anyone decides to make a major life altering decision it is always best to have complete information on hand.”, I see an impossibility. Information is never complete, one can avoid making a difficult decision for a while using the analysis paralysis approach and trying to define more and more necessary information; but sooner or later it is time to shit or relinquish the throne.
Ignorance is remediable, stupidity is terminal but so is paralysis.
@CC: you are correct, allow me to rephrase, “it is best to have as complete information as possible”. Of course, there may be times when available information is limited, but when it comes to life and death best to be as complete as possible, once you turn the corner there’s no turning back time. Enjoy your read. That is probably the best written book on Cause & Effect I have ever come across, and it has humor too boot! 🙂
When people are dying, they don’t travel that dark road (metaphor here) by having ‘complete information’. They LOSE CONTROL OF THE MIND. The mind has evolved in a particular way and far from controlling it, and far from gaining some sort of secret key or path of enlightenment, as we die we all do the same things: our brains reel out all the ANXIETY FEELINGS that haunt it going back to childhood.
These are like little boxes piled all over the place that suddenly all pop open all at once. Many religions are attempts and short circuiting this process or having a happy process. But these fail since the ANXIETY FEELINGS are often attached to very insignificant things like various faux pas events we stupidly did, for example.
People greatly desire to have some wonderful way of dying that involves being carried off by loving gods or goddesses who pet us and pamper us. To make ourselves feel good, we created religions to ease our ANXIETY when we die.
To keep social systems going which are totally artificial unlike in other mammals, we create complex belief systems. These, in turn, keep us from eating each other and running crazy only… these belief systems make us go crazy which is a PARADOX.
People hate paradoxes and want verities and linear thinking (as we see in many comments here) so instead of reading my stuff and figuring out these paradoxes and then understanding why we have these paradoxes people work twice as hard, putting their ANXIETIES into little boxes and then hope they won’t suddenly open up when we face the Gates of Death.
Trust me, it won’t work.
Elaine sayeth: “… there is no lady with the scales at the Gates of Death …” DAMNATION who am I going to chat up when I arrive? what a rip. I want the blindfolded babe with the sword and scales and the real flimsy shift.
Then she says : “Lady Luck isn’t a nasty dame rolling knucklebone dice.” I hate it when they steal all the illusions, next thing you know there will be no Sanity Clause, no dead rabbit, nothing to lie about to the kidlets.
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ELAINE: I used to fight with broadswords. 🙂 I wore real steel armor and would joke that I was the broad with the sword. So beware: if there really IS such a female at the Gates of Death, remember: swords are for swinging at targets. 🙂
A pool ball on the green felt of its universe, has no options about where it will move to when it is struck by another ball. Cause to effect, exactly predictable with a very few accurate pieces of information. The object ball can not move in preparation for the cue balls impact. The object ball cannot by its own will change the cause and the effect. One doesn’t even have to see the impact, just measure the spin and the inertia and you can determine the final resting place.
Human’s have this terrible habit of projecting up the timeline and then changing their immediate actions to bring the current life trajectory more in line with their desired projections. ( Some folks call this saving for the lean years ) It is human’s, expectations of the future that help determine the future as much if not more than the inertia of the past.
Economists got all woody and flushed years ago when one of them devoted some time to “Rational Expectations.” Nice body of theoretical work developed, some of the presecriptions and policy guesses from the theory were written into law. Sadly humans are only somewhat rational some of the time. Ugly math complications trying to model semi rationality over lumpy time horizons. The world is as it is today due to the expectations of the actors and the inertia of yesterday. Tomorrow will be hugely the same as today but a little bit different, the day after tomorrow will be hugely the same as tomorrow but a tiny bit different. Sept 8, 2067 will be as much like today as Sept 8, 1947 is. Not very much at all.
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ELAINE: The inertia of the past is IMMENSE. To expand on this: your ‘pool table’ story has a huge flaw. The Universe is not on a flat pool table. It is on a hills and valley system caused by gravitational forces. These things are caused by PAST EVENTS that continue INTO THE FUTURE. The future can’t ‘make itself’. It follows the flow caused by past events.
The weight of the past is vast. The power over the future is small. This is the deepest essence of the entire matter. We can struggle against this like the ants we think are so small. But the ant universe operates the same way as ours! For example, ants work very hard to prepare for the future. Then, I come along and saw up the log or move the rock or dig a hole and the ants plans are destroyed along with their homes. To them, I am a cosmic force.
See? 🙂
Getting lost in the CONTEXT per usual, Elaine. 🙂 We were talking about suicide as I recall, a self inflicted experience not a natural one. And if you don’t believe me try it, I guarantee you that the experience will not be little boxes popping open. Lol.
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Notice that with you I use god with the small G. Fits your elementals very nicely. And stop being so smug, do you actually think you are the only one who has had out of body experiences? That’s arrogant and simpleminded. Many, many people have, and without lightning, and at will. No shortcuts. I know its difficult to grasp something you’ve never experienced, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Besides, I have nothing to prove to you. Spirituality is something one proves to oneself, it’s personal. 🙂
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ELAINE: Have you ever, ever ‘sat death watch’? This is where you sit, sometimes for weeks, with a dying person. Trust me on this one: having done this more than a dozen times, you have zero control over events when the Process begins.
@ Elaine- ” …as we die we all do the same things: our brains reel out all the ANXIETY FEELINGS that haunt it going back to childhood.”
Huh ? Where on earth did you pick up that piece of misinformation ?
It would probably do you a LOT of good to volunteer in a hospice.
Most people have a very limited experience of being around the dying….other than their own friends and family members.
Dying is as individual as living is . Some people make the best of it, and others don’t fare so well. Some people go fast- a car accident or a bullet and you’re knocked right into the next plane of being in a heartbeat. No time for anxiety there.
A long , protracted death is different. Pain management and loss of independence become problematic to varying degrees but , at this point, most of the dying are drugged to the eyeballs and anxiety is certainly not an issue for most of them.Where anxiety DOES come into the picture big time is among the family members who are facing the loss of their loved one.
You seem to carry a lot of unnecessary baggage around with you . Unresolved issues that go way back ?
A lot of personal anxiety and fear can be resolved by shifting your focus and simply letting go of it. And letting go is something we all have to learn to do sooner or later. If you do it sooner, you have a better quality of life. If you do it later – that’s called dying.
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ELAINE: Dying, far from being an individual process that is unique, is actually a process that follows very definite rules and regulations evolved over time by Natural Evolutionary Forces. As for anxiety: it may last one second or many weeks. It does happen. You may deny this but you will remember my words when you do go down this particular road. I speak not as one who is foreign to this process but as one very intimately involved in experiencing it.
well thank you SKY! this, unfortunately, is what i do and have done since i was little. i have no choice about seeing this. personally, i think i somehow have “leakage” or something….if you know what i mean.
i can hear elaine snorting now.
about dreams, well i am working on that. you mentioned “lucid” which is interesting for sure. mostly what i do is …. try and master my affects. and then this, which is much harder than i thought it would be which is to simply watch my thoughts and affects come and go with no conscious reason. the hard part, and the part that ruins my dreams, is watching them with a part of me without breaking up the real flow as stuff comes up.
imho, here is where the meaning of life is. not raising armies, not building empires, not fucking anything that will move…. but discussing this affects elaine so, yet it is what she is all about. i am glad to meet you sky.
thank you sky to your first post. your second came after i last posted. you are right as rain. my practical as can be wife has been a registered nurse on second shift in nursing homes all her life. she thinks she has held the hand of maybe 1000 people as they died alone in the night. i ahve never touched what elaine has to say about this because she would be so affected and i cannot explain this thing as well as i could i guess because elaine says i am so whimpy. anyway, thank you and welcome to elaines blog about where the spiritual world meets harsh reality. heh.
And as far as fear goes, it’s important to make the distinction between fear of dying and fear of death. Those are two entirely different things.
Dying is the process whereby the body shuts down. Death, unless you’ve had an NDE , is an unknown.
I’m not looking forward to the dying process myself because they haven’t found a pain killer that works on me other than Advil. The most powerful class of drugs- the opiates – have zero effect on me. : – (
But as far as death goes, I’m looking forward to it. I’ve had about enough of all the pain, suffering, evil , and sheer stupidity on this planet. From my own metaphysical experiences, I KNOW that we’re part of a continuum. But you know what ? Even if we weren’t part of a continuum ,even if death was the final curtain, lights out for ever….so what ! I will go to same place that those I’ve loved and lost have gone . And that’s good enough for me.
Pain killers means making the CONSCIOUS MIND go to sleep. So whatever thinking processes you might experience at this critical time are terminated.
Some people want this escape from the pain of dealing with reality. It is part of our cultural system. We even now worry somewhat about the pain we cause living animals we kill…sort of….barely.
This is Soma, the Huxley story about our future world comes to mind here….*ahem*
I hope to use no pain killers when I die. I wish to experience even pain so I can see reality. Isn’t that stupid of me. 🙂
@ Openly Hidden – “imho, here is where the meaning of life is. not raising armies, not building empires, not fucking anything that will move…. ”
You’re singing my song brother !
I love dreams because we all have to sleep, so why not make the most of it by learning how to dream differently and better.
I find meditation so boring and painstaking that I never tried it long enough to get any results. But dreams ? That’s a different story.
Many people claim they don’t dream. But we all dream. What we are poor at is remembering them. Keeping a dream journal can help out in this dept.
Lucid dreams are the coolest. Those are dreams in which you become awake …ie: You are fast asleep and dreaming and you become CONSCIOUS in your dream. In other words, you’re still dreaming but you come fully aware that you’re dreaming. Lucidity grants the dreamer CONTROL of the dream. Party time !
I don’t have any control of my precognitive dreams. They come uninvited when THEY want to. And they show me things, unpleasant things that will happen in the future, but things that have always come true. Those are my ” heads up ! ” dreams.
I know exactly what you mean about your ” leakage ” : – ) The crying shame of it is that most of us are born with this ability but we have it drummed out of existence by the morons that run this planet. By the time the lying politicians, the social engineers, the religious establishments, and the scientists get through with you, you’re little more than a programmed rat running through a maze of deception.
And of course it was all planned this way. Sure the elite want to reduce us to feudal serfdom. But they want more than that, much more.In order for their empire of lies to succeed they have to pull people away from truth and our access to higher dimensions.
And the elite love destroying children. Children are so much more in tune with the truth. ” Leakage” is common with them. (If only the adults would listen ! ) The sooner the parents send their children off to the govt indoctrination centres called kindergardens and schools, the happier the elite are. Pump em full of vaccines, fluoridated water,psychotropic drugs like Ritalin ; fill em full of lies while they’re plunked onto a hard wooden seat for endless hours at a time and then give them a ” break” outdoors at recess to suck up some chemtrail air. That pretty much takes care of the children’s God given creativity and intellect. God I hate these people !
I was talking about human beings on earth.
The future we work towards creates this present, the inertia of the past is subject to human friction and weighs less and less on the present. The future indeed causes itself.
That an inanimate asteroid or comet or xray blast from an otherwise quiescent sun could treat humanity with the inanimate unawareness and harm is just another future fact calculated into the mix as we allow the future to be its own cause.
The difference is that you know you will harm the ants and you have the power to change the course of your action. The asteroid or comet or whatever has not the power to change its future, hills and valleys of gravitational exertion all inanimate, determine completely the course.
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ELAINE: Every time you wash your hands, you kill germs. You are very mean. 🙂 This was a message from the Virus Empire. Remember: vaccinations kill us! Don’t use it! We need your body for our homeland. 🙂
Elaine, what is the difference between you describing “gods” or “goddesses” who are anthropomorphic representations of natural forces like chance or balance (Lady Luck and Libra), and others who have a God representing the force or concept of love or consciousness (imagined in the human mind with human form and behaviors)? If your concept of the God of Love described by Christianity is an un-loving un-compassionate God, something is wrong there.
“If horses had gods, they would look like horses!” Xenophanes, ancient Greek philospher.
PS @oh and Sky – I’m not trying to insinuate anything, just noticing: Sky sounds an awful lot like NightmareSkies, who’s afraid of chemtrails, if I’m not mistaken. It’s also interesting that she sounds a lot like Elaine in terms of claiming to have dreams of the future that just come to her, and of lucid dreaming where she can go and explore everything in time and space. Coincidence? Maybe. I appreciate her points of view, but just noticing things.
Heh, many of you people here claim to have had mystical, non-physical experiences. The rest of us don’t get to have any fun!
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ELAINE: The Outer Darkness is no fun.
Elaine:
The reason the baby sitter co-ops have trouble working is because they are based on a faulty assumption. They assume that all members have about the same amount of time, the same need for baby sitters, the same willingness to sit in return, and that they value their time about the same. Only if you find a group of people where these assumptions are true, and limit membership ONLY to those where the assumptions are true, will the co-op succeed. Those are pretty tough limits, but if you depart from them just a little bit, it all falls apart. The problem is, people change as time passes. For one thing, the kids get older and eventually stop needing sitters. Mothers go back to work and are no longer available to sit in exchange for others. And so on.
I love co-ops and would like to see them succeed everywhere. Unfortunately, this particular implementation of the co-op ideal is beset with fatal flaws from the get-go. A better approach is to broaden the scope of what people can put into the co-op and what they can get in exchange. Maybe the co-op could take over the sometimes difficult task of recruiting and check out the background of students, etc. who need to earn some extra money and have abundant time to baby sit; the co-op could even handle the scheduling, matching up those available with those needing a sitter. Members could earn scrip not just by sitting, but also by handling these administrative tasks. Give members who just don’t have time to offer to sit for others the option of buying scrip, and give those (like those students) who have lots of time to sit the option of cashing out scrip. Or maybe expand it into a talent exchange with a wider scope of services that can be offered.
Elaine:
About that Krugman article:
If you have time, check out this paper:
“No One Saw This Coming”: Understanding Financial Crisis Through Accounting Models
Click to access MPRA_paper_15892.pdf
The reason why Krugman and most other economists didn’t see it coming is because their thinking is fatally flawed by the theoretical models with which they view the world. In essence, they only work with a national income accounts model, they ignore (and in fact, haven’t even bothered to develop) the national balance sheet and a national funds flow statement. Anyone who tried to run a business or institution looking only at the income statement and ignoring the balance sheet and cash flow statement would soon be bankrupt. As the US will soon be, for the same reason.
Correct, WNC. We have to look at EVERYTHING. Which is why so many people howl like demons whenever I look at many different aspects of an economic/cultural matrix.
We are supposed to be stupid so dumb people can cling to a wide rainbow of ignorant beliefs. These beliefs, especially religious ones, are dear to the hearts of the believers so they cannot tolerate even slight alterations to the considerations of reality.
Everything has to be laid out on ONE TRACK ONLY. This afflicts 99% of the analysts in the world. This is because they want to please someone: their bosses, maybe some rich people, maybe politicians, maybe readers who have weird beliefs, whatever it is, they have to please these entities and this leads to stupid analysis.
I note that when I am on my firmest ground, the crazies go nuts. For example, the H1N1 had the POTENTIAL to be a hyper-bad epidemic. On the other hand, it might not.
Preparing for the POSSIBILITY of it being dangerous, various agencies and medical systems had to prepare themselves. IF it is not dangerous, we breathe a sigh of relief. Whew.
Instead, the kooks who are scared of vaccinations will hop up and down and howl that this was all ‘fake’ and ‘stupid’ and blah, blah, blah until blue in the face.
This is, of course, infantile. This sort of behavior infects ALL analysis attempts. When it come to biology or other dynamic systems, we have to look at the flow and speculate as to where this will go, how much, etc. The more data and the clearer the data, the easier to see this.
Being prejudicial means trying to ignore incoming information or demanding perfection (impossible) instead of examination and exploration.
So I stand pretty much alone. I am not part of anyone’s preconceived set of ticks, beliefs or manias. I am just myself. Utterly curious as to what is going on.
Krugman is defending his territory. He doesn’t want to be proven wrong. He has his religious beliefs that are disguised as ‘economics’ and won’t add religion to economics like I do so often.
Economics IS religion, through and through. More than any other systems on earth including religions. (A JOKE)
@sky, hahahahaha meditation boring? Big ego not like meditation, big ego make up all sorts of stuff to avoid meditation, big ego wants to stay big ego. You know what you have to do, kick his ass!
@cc, why let someone read a whole freaking book filled with numerous letters and boring big words on the Law of Cause and Effect when the following quote explains it all: “All that we are is the result of what we have thought. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him.” The Buddha
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ELAINE: The obvious problem is, ‘What is a pure thought?’ No one knows. Everyone thinks they have it. But no one can lay claim to having it since it is impossible to have it by definition. There is no such thing. Humans are animals and we have animal thoughts. We can pretend otherwise but that is the ultimate illusion. Being brainless is also fun if one is protected. But then, if everyone has ‘pure thoughts’ (ie: no more real thinking going on, mostly blankness) then society collapses (um, pure Buddhism is an invitation to being looted and killed) so even Buddhism has had fighting Buddhist priests (JAPAN) and has been a totally un-Buddhist entity since the beginning (anyone who really did what Buddha wanted usually ended up dead thanks to invasions).
This is a hard concept to accept. We live in the real world which acts on us no matter how crazy we think. We can shut it out but there is a price to be paid called ‘death’. Of course, Buddhism has morphed in many ways to deal with all this and has many forms and shapes requiring immense verbal arguments. HAHAHAHA. See? And if you want to see real fist fights, go to Korea and check out how various Buddhist factions battle each other, literally.
@ K-Bo…..Yup, I shortened up Nighmareskies to plain ” Sky “. But you’re wrong when you say I fear the chemtrails. I don’t fear them, I detest them and I loathe the ones who are running this covert aerosol program .
About the dreams – I don’t explore space/time with the lucid dreams, although I suppose that there are people who have that ability. I’m not one of them.
My precognitive dreams are the dreams that breech time. But I’ve never been lucid while having a precog.
You said “Heh, many of you people here claim to have had mystical, non-physical experiences. The rest of us don’t get to have any fun!”
You can have fun too, K-Bo. Just about all the lucid dreamers I know DO have fun while lucid dreaming. Start working on your own dreaming skills and recall. You’ll be amazed what happens.
Oh, and dreaming is perfectly safe and Bible approved, to boot ! Good luck to you K – Bo if you choose to explore this avenue of mystical knowledge.
K-Bo – Sorry, I wasn’t quite clear in my last post.
Time doesn’t exist in dreams, so in that sense ALL dreams breech time ( not just the precogs ).What the precogs do is breech our Earthy conception of LINEAR/SEQUENTIAL time…tick, tock, tick, tock.
My precogs show me an event that happens before it plays out here on this Earth. The vast majority of them ( but not ALL) are extremely literal. I don’t have to wade through a bunch of dream symbology in an effort to interpret these precogs because usually I’m just shown chapter and verse.
I’m no fan of symbology, so it would be of no use to me in a dream state.
BTW – the lucid dreams are fun, but the precogs
? ….not so much.
Don’t get me wrong, they’re never terrifying, like a common nightmare can be.
But they are unsettling.
There is no up or down: “why let someone read a whole freaking book filled with numerous letters and boring big words on the Law of Cause and Effect when the following quote explains it all…”
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Point is taken, however, not everyone is simple minded or at the point of simply understanding. They need to go through the whole abstract process. Simple minded people develop faith easily, but as a consequence their faith can be shaken as easily. Intellectuals take time, they do their homework, swallow, regurgitate, but once convinced they stay the course and rarely if ever loose their faith in the path they have chosen.
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So to answer your question, why give a whole freaking book…, well, because after reading a whole freaking book as you so eloquently put it, and one as comprehensive as that, then one has the opportunity to ask the right question which is, “Am I a true seeker or a dabbler?” Once a person is armed with true knowledge they can decide their future destiny properly.
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As Hafiz wrote:
“Talk of wine and the Singer,
Delve not into the mysteries of the world;
No one has solved, nor will ever solve
This riddle through reasoning.”
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ELAINE: Wrong. The mysteries of the world are solvable via using our brains and physical reality to explore various things. This is called ‘science’ and it has been IMMENSELY successful.
my heart is saddened elaine. i originally came to this web site thinking it might be what you said it was…i.e. where the spirit meets harsh reality. and i expected to find mature, intelligent, experienced people of wisdom hard gained from years of life and learning. but when i read what it is you actually “know”, it reminds me exactly of pre-revolutionary russia or germany between the wars or the creeps of the cultural revolution. i never believed the story that the great “capitalists” actually financed the hideous totalitarian regimes of the last century trying for a completely totalitarian world, but i do now. and you are part of it bad cop/good cop new world order and now, when anyone can see there is no republican party, no democrat party, no real capitalism, and the spiritual freedoms are just another bad word associated with the even worse word, “individual”….well i have to ask who is paying you elaine? who is paying you to completely ignore the last half century of science and knowledge and wisdom whilc you spew the 19th century dialectic materialism of trotsky? or himmler? the rothchilds? the lesbian rangers? satan? you total lack of edification gave you away finally elaine. you overreached. so who is paying you to spread the party line here?
signed, disappointed.
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ELAINE: I didn’t overreach. You went insane. Big difference.
This is a good article of the ties between the federal reserve/federal government/wall street … there’s not even a degree of separation between them any more … and the economists in this country.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/priceless-how-the-federal_n_278805.html
Z
Good link Z! The present day mantra of all materialists is, “Money talks and bullshit walks.” Which only proves that highly intelligent people can be really stupid. 🙂
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ELAINE: That is the Gnome Mantra, not ‘society’. >)
here
run those long urls into tiny ones
http://tinyurl.com/create.php
Without the bullshit, the dream stays with the conman and the money stays in the wallet.
@OH
Remember what it was like turning 60? By my simple math, EMS is just 61 maybe 63.
CK’s rule: Cut the other guy some slack, leave some wiggle room, don’t try to walk a mile in their shoes you’ll get blisters and they will be angry at you and shoeless.
Calling people names is usually counterproductive, especially if they are wittier than you and have better comebacks.
Most folks are smarter than me, wittier than me and wiser than me, even it that isn’t true it doesn’t harm to live life as though it were.
You might waste a bit of time on folks who prove to be not smarter, wittier or wiser; but the agida and money saved by not getting outsmarted ouwitted and outwised by them as is smarter wittier and wiser more than compensates.
Thanks for the link wc.
I also want to note the role of the academics in this whole mess. That’s the feedback loop that provides robustness and stability to their fucked up economic beliefs … the foundation to their foundation of lies.
I wonder if krugman mentioned the fed’s role in this in his recent article critiquing his profession and why they almost all “got it so wrong”. Taking a quick browse through the article, I doubt it. http://tinyurl.com/lfa75d. There is no way that he is not aware of the influence of the fed on the economics academia … no way. he was a professor at princeton. but he deceitfully skips over all that becoz he doesn’t want the american people to know about it.
Instead he provides innocent reasons as to why the vast majority of his profession was so wrong … romantic reasons tied to numbers and beauty and all kinds of other really nice things that caused them to so innocently miss bubble after bubble after bubble … as they got richer and richer and richer. God, he makes you feel so sorry for them, you almost just want to hold one in your arms and protect them and tell them that everything is gonna be all right. Just like they’ve been telling you the whole time as things have gone to shit.
Again, krugman is far from objective. he can find no wrong in anything clinton and he pumped up the guy that got him his job in Princeton, Benny the magic money maker, for doing a great job printing wall street out of its troubles. Oh, and ronald reagan put a spell on every president that followed him and made them carry out his economic policies.
krugman is a sell-out albeit a quirky one. But he won’t go against the people that helped him get into the system. he’s been corrupted by the process that it takes to become “successful” and wealthy in that field of filth.
Z
Here’s an article by Dean Baker, a rare good U.S. economist, about robber rubin, a truly detestable human being, who “never saw it coming” either. http://www.truthout.org/090809I
rubin is right down there with greenspan as far as blame for this economic mess and in some ways I hold him more responsible … the most responsible for it … becoz he’s the one that got greenspan believing in the productivity miracle which led to greenspan inflating the money supply which funded the beginning of the bubbles. And almost no one financially benefited personally as much as rubin from this system that he played a large role in creating.
greenspan wasn’t catastrophically terrible until rubin got his ear. Then by the time that rubin left, greenspan bought into all of rubin’s bullshit on deregulation, derivatives, the strong dollar, free trade, repeal the glass-steagall act, etc. Some of these positions may have been greenspan’s pre-rubin, but he became a zealot on the wrong side … at least not on the american people’s side … of all those positions that did so much damage to this country once he started having lunch with rubin.
rubin’s scum, but he’s very polite so he’s known as a very nice guy in dc. plus he’s got a charity … what a great guy … that probably gives out about .000001% of what robber rubin robbed this country of.
Z
@ Z :
“Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion —when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing — when you see that money is flowing to those that deal, not in goods, but in favors—when you see that men get richer by graft and pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you — when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming self-sacrifice —you may know that your society is doomed.” — Ayn Rand (from “Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal”)
Serial bubble blower Greenspan is no fool. He was part of Ayn Rand’s inner circle back in the 60’s and he fully understood the TRUE principles behind capitalism . Rubin didn’t lead Greenspan astray – G sold out a LONG time ago.
Many years ago, long before he became Chairman of the Fed, Ayn Rand found out that Greenspan was PRO Federal Reserve . Rand HATED the Fed so she threw a plate of spaghetti into Greenspan’s face at a dinner party.
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ELAINE: Ayn Rand was a kook. And she should have thrown a knife. Heh. Too chicken, I guess. And she was interested in young males for you know what. Not intellectual content. She didn’t understand ‘capital’ at all. This is why her followers are so clueless and the communist Chinese run circles around them.
Here is a story that glaringly proves the utter stupidity and lack of class of the elite. These guys have 1-2 trillion stashed on this island and they cannot pay the bills. What a bunch of useless pikers!
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“The white sands of Seven Mile Beach on Grand Cayman have long caressed the toes of the world’s wealthiest financiers, who flock to this balmy spit to avoid the taxman’s prying eyes. But the world’s biggest hedge-fund venue and fifth-biggest bank centre is now threatened, as the government of the Cayman Islands heads for bankruptcy — unable to pay its own staff… hundreds of civil servants found that pension contributions and health insurance payments were missing from their pay slips. Contractors and government suppliers also had bills unpaid… The leader of government business, William McKeeva Bush, begged the British government to borrow $310m (£190m) from banks.”
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$310m people, what a joke.
Maybe the Cayman Islanders will riot and burn down all the mail boxes used by the hedge funds. 🙂
Sky,
I know that greenspan was a randian, but IMO what he really was, more than anything else, was a serial pragmatist that always took the most painless way out of any situation and therefore stood for little but the status quo.
Z
ELAINE: “Wrong. The mysteries of the world are solvable via using our brains and physical reality to explore various things. This is called ’science’ and it has been IMMENSELY successful.”
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Again, your lack of metaphysical understanding shines through. Better stick to economics and finance.
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And about science being immensely successful, you mean like the 9/11 NIST Report which is widely disputed by over 800 technical professionals, scientists and engineers? Yup, science cannot even postulate unanimously on a three building collapse. http://tinyurl.com/la7x98
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ELAINE: Metaphysics is fun. Science is real. You refute me by quoting technical experts which PROVES MY POINT, doesn’t it? By the way, there is this thing called consensus. If 800 guys say one thing and 80,000 say the opposite, it is up to the 800 to prove BEYOND DOUBT that their alternative ideas are scientifically viable. See how that works? Asking for an investigation is NOT providing evidence. It is asking more questions.
Now, the hysteria about the ‘bombs’ stuff has utterly and totally killed any possibility of any investigation. If you go out in the real world, you will discover people get very annoyed with people who scream, ‘Building number seven!’ all the time. Trust me on this.
@ CC – An old saw for you :
The scientists said to God , ” Science has discovered the secret of life. We now have the ability to create a new type of man- healthier,smarter, improved in all ways. ”
God smiled down at the scientists and said to them ” Go right ahead. ”
The scientists bent over and each grabbed a handful of dirt.
God gently shook his finger at them in admonition. ” No.” he said. ” That’s cheating. You have to make your OWN dirt . ”
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ELAINE; Too bad Mother Nature toys with our genetics all the time, constantly. We are playing catch up with Her.
@Sky: Brilliant! Thanks for that. As is said in the East, ‘When the sage points to the moon, all the idiot sees is the finger’. 😉
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ELAINE: And when the astronomer points to the moon and explains how gravity works, the sage says, ‘None of this is real’. 🙂
CC, and OH, too,
Be careful or your karma might involve rebirth as a woman, which the majority of the worlds religions STILL consider to be a lesser birth.
Maybe then you might understand why people like me find it inspiring to occasionally read books like “Amazon Grace” or “Pure Lust” by Mary Daly. And maybe then you would understand that being raped or physically abused is something that happens to a huge number of women around the world, often as young children and predominantly by men. An “elemental” spirituality is not something to be dismissed so cavalierly when we look around and see all the representatives of God helping to create hell on earth with their phallic weaponry designed to annihilate everything and everyone.
CK, did you ever grow mushrooms- like shitake or cordyceps? I have been listening to this guy Paul Stametz- http://www.ted.com/index.php/speakers/view/id/229.
Great idea- ginseng. I’m impressed!
@Angela: how are you? Have you been able to kick smoking? 🙂
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I assure you I have been a woman many times in past lives, as have you been a man in yours. We both have been raped and have raped; and have done much worse. So being cavalier is moot, I am more focused on exiting this vale of tears post haste. Elaine has her issues, who am I to comment on them? I give my perspective, what people do with it is their choice, and vice versa. Mind is like a parachute, it only works well when open.
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ELAINE; Talk about arrogance.
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BTW, about the representatives of God, there is a saying, “A man is accepted into a church for what he believes, and is turned out for what he knows.” Learning to differentiate between charlatans and the real deal is a tall order. When one is sincere about developing a real relationship with the Creator that desire will eventually bear fruit in good time.
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In the meantime here is a little humor to give you some perspective:
There were two lovers, who were really into spiritualism and reincarnation. They vowed that if either died, the other one remaining would try to contact the partner in the other world exactly 30 days after their death. Unfortunately, a few weeks later, the young man died in a car wreck. True to her word, his sweetheart tried to contact him in the spirit world exactly 30 days later.
At the seance, she called out, “John, John, this is Martha. Do you hear me?” A ghostly voice answered her, “Yes Martha, this is John. I can hear you.” Martha tearfully asked, “Oh John, what is it like where you are?” “It’s beautiful. There are azure skies, a soft breeze, sunshine most of the time.” “What do you do all day?” asked Martha. “Well, Martha, we get up before sunrise, eat some good breakfast, and there’s nothing but making love until noon. After lunch, we nap until two and then make love again until about five. After dinner, we go at it again until we fall asleep about 11 p.m.”
Martha was somewhat taken aback. “Is that what heaven really is like?” “Heaven? I’m not in heaven, Martha.” “Well, then, where are you?” “I don’t know, but I’m a rabbit.”
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Moral of the story: We become that which we desire most. 😉
I am no animal darwinistic materialistic EMS.
The Buddha’s teachings an invitation to collapse? You are so right EMS, China and Japan are collapsing and the West is getting stronger and stronger every day.
Materialism 1 – Buddhism – 0?
Your Chi is stuck in your head EMS. Fix it!
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ELAINE: Last time I looked, China is run by the materialistic Communist Party. Buddhism isn’t running China at all. And it is dying in Japan, big time. Go check it out. I read a lot of Japanese newspapers. The population uses the priests mainly for funerals, not even weddings anymore. Like in England, the religious buildings and shrines are increasingly deserted.
@Angela: “CK, did you ever grow mushrooms- like shitake or …”
No.
@CC: “Moral of the story: We become that which we desire most. ” Oh goody I am coming back as a distillery.
@Angela: 24 weeks now without a cig for me. ( And hardly any increase in my drinking )
CK: you will come back as a Scotsman, eh? 🙂
@CK: nice try amigo, but inanimate objects don’t count. How about Sacchromyces Ellipsoidues? Scotsman will do too. Lol.
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Hey, 24 weeks, great! Exercising too I hope. Got to help your immune system by sweating the alcohol out of your system.
No, not as a Scotsman, as a distillery. All shiny copper stills and piping, charred oak barrels, porous malting floor, peat fire, all me. I shall return as a distillery; the Angel’s share will be mine. MINE I SAY all mine, the glorious drams of old Lagavulin, the smoky bite of the young Laphroig, the salt and sea and wind of the Bowmore, to Islay to the east where the original garden was. The waters of life the uisge beatha.
“nice try amigo, but inanimate objects don’t count. ” Who says? The boulder that takes the skiers life certainly counts, the tsunami that destroys a culture counts, So if I decide that I am coming back as a glorious, romantic, magnificent example of man’s grand creativity i.e. an Islay distillery, who is to gainsay me? Some paltry death godling trying to stand in the way of a HUMAN MALE? PSHAW it is to larf and chortle and guffaw. Have you never heard of the ghost of the machine?
@CK: what I ended my drinking days with was a good Metaxa Grand Fine. http://www.metaxa.com/family/metaxa-grande-fine-200020.html
ems
Buddhism isn’t
Buddhism started to die 60 years after of the passing of the budda,
like a dead chicken lays on the table in the heat ,, and soon it changes complexion and stinks up the place.
true spiritual events are outpicturing of individual consciousness.
like JOE BTFSPLK is very simply the world’s biggest jinx. He walks around with a perpetually dark rain cloud a foot over his head. Once he appears on any scene, dreadfully bad luck befalls anyone in his vicinity.
like wise buddhism is not a teaching it is an experience ,
that words do not began to replace the individual experience ,, once budda left the area .. the dream settled around.
the light went out.. and we see the wrong end of the cave ,just the shadows making strange shapes.. like the fantasy of the dancing chicks .. yet in the heat they become the dead chickens .. off the table mable that qtr is for the beer lol
as minsky,, he explained a few shadows , yet left the root to grow deeper and produce the same old same old ..
HAHAHA. So, the religion is a failure? HAHAHA.
See why I hang out with Pegasus who has no one praying to him (ie: bugging him all the time with stupid demands)?
@CC:
Indeed. Metaxa is wonderous stuff. ( And if truth is a necessity, the greek waters of life are more ancient than the Scot’s.)
A few years ago I had several pieces of 14th century Iznik ceramics. The Rhodian container reminds me of that beauty.
One of the earliest goddesses in civilization was the divine barmaid of Ur.
Elaine, I showed you mine, please show me your 80,000. 🙂 Talk is cheap. Of course, only you have A1 sources of information, right? Talk about arrogance. Lol.
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@CK: you can try. 🙂
emsnews
September 10, 2009 at 2:35 pm
HAHAHA. So, the religion is a failure? HAHAHA.
so name one human endeavor that has been more than lip service .?
religion is a human endeavor…
WHY THE HA HA ,, WC Has MAINTAINED that from the beginning .
of these ravings. lol
emc
divine barmaid of Ur.
symbolism
the devine barmaid .. was used to try to explain to the groping crowd in some sort of language they might understand ,,
rather than say all events are outpicturing of your own consiousness lol
as is the walking lady of liberty not a sexy babe on a silver dime /
but represent the flowing grace and feminine nature of the giver of life Greek thēlē nipple. freedom…
http://mises.org/story/3695
Anatomy of an Economic Ignoramus
And in the event you dont like crucial theory, clearly this write-up isn’t for you!