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zionism « “Dubito, ergo cogito; cogito, ergo sum.”…”CUI BONO?”
The destruction of the Jewish people continues: this is an internal collapse. A people who were hammered by intolerance and hate for centuries, a people who enriched and ennobled many a culture, a people with an amazing past, creators of many monuments to humanism and science. The Jews are morphing into monsters right before my eyes. Some readers have asked me to explain why I side with the people of Gaza in this latest horror. It is very simple: when we see a bully beating a starving dog in a corner, we save the dog and condemn the bully.
UN: Israel Admits Claims About Attacked School Baseless | News From Antiwar.com
UN Relief and Works Agency spokesman Chris Gunness reported this evening that the Israeli army is privately briefing diplomats on the fact that its previous claims about their attack on a UN-run girls’ school in the Gaza Strip, which caused over 100 civilian casualties.
The attack occurred yesterday, when Israeli mortars deliberately fired three shells at the school, which was filled with hundreds of displaced civilians at the time, killing at least 46 and wounding 55 others. As international outrage began to well over the enormous civilian toll of the attack, Israel declared the killings “according to procedures” and claimed Hamas had fired rockets from the school’s courtyard, making the attack on hundreds of innocent civilians self-defense.
And while Israel had previously claimed to have had proof to back up its story, Gunness says the military is now conceding that the mortar fire they previously claimed came from the school came from elsewhere in the refugee camp.
It now appears that the Jewish story line of ‘terrorists’ [i.e. civilian resisters to ethnic cleansing] did NOT shoot at the heavily armored Jewish attackers deep inside of Palestinian sovereign territory. Please note the words I am using: Gaza is NOT Israel at all. Gaza is a stateless state. The Jews have used military force to take over control of this piece of land filled with the displaced natives of Palestine. As the ‘police’ of this place, they have a duty and responsibility to either take care of the people there or to hand this over to the UN, for example. Or better still, withdraw all boycotts, barriers and controls and allow the natives of Israel to once again, have full access to their homes which Jews took from them in the past.
In other words, return the lands taken by force in the recent past. Anything taken in my own lifetime is ‘the recent past’. One of the richest religions on earth, per capita, is the Jewish people. They have great power and influence in the word. There are many Jewish million or billionaires and they have high political positions in many countries, especially the US. They are no longer some fugitive minority suffering the slings and arrows of arrogant masses. They have power. And with power comes restrictions and the need to show humanity.
Just as we condemn an armed bully beating up a starving dog, cowering in a corner, so we must condemn the Israeli Jews and their brethren and allies. If the Jews were weak and helpless as well as physically starving, we would have quite a different opinion. I was not alive in WWII but I know that many people were horrified of the images of suffering the US and others uncovered when they took over Nazi territory. These actions by the Nazis were roundly condemned and the perpetrators were put to death.
Then, everyone including a number of very prominent Jews pushed through new international laws and rules designed to prevent bullies from kicking starving dogs to death. Instead of opening up a shining new world, the Cold War simply made things worse. Millions of innocent people have been beaten, starved and outright murdered in countless concentration camps. Cambodia is one prime example: a quarter of those unfortunate people were brutally murdered and starved to death and even today, the country struggles to regain ground from that tragedy.
Germany still hasn’t recovered from the folly of murdering so many Jews. The culture and intellectual world of Germany has been left utterly devastated by the Nazi ethnic cleansing and might take centuries to recover entirely. Russia’s destruction of not only the Jewish communities but the middle class and the intelligencia as well as many ethnic minorities has nearly destroyed Russia’s own rich heritage. Great art, novels, music, dance, science and philosophy came from countries that once had a wide variety of people living cheek and jowl, next to each other. These mixed societies were the most exciting, the richest human repositories of culture and humanity. Many wonderful things came pouring out of these very mixed countries, things we are still in awe of and wish we could make copies of these things, today!
Multiculturalism leads to greatness. Monoculturalism leads to stagnation and stupidity.
I am dead set against any ethnic cleansing. Today, to show that the US, under the control of AIPAC and a host of Jewish media owners, made a big show of flying in rations and aid to Darfur. As I keep pointing out, Darfur is the toy they haul out of their bag so they can pretend to be humanistic and kind. The more they bully the starving dogs in Gaza, the more they have to show concern and mercy to the suffering tribe in Africa who really doesn’t mean anything at all to the Zionists. When the entire planet is demanding Israeli Jews let in food and medicine to Gaza, they, in turn, have their confederates who run the US system, send aid to Africa, instead.
I suppose the Africans can now pray for Israel to be particularly cruel so they get some more aid crumbs from the US. This whole thing nauseates me because people accuse me of not being fair. But where is there any fairness in these messes? My fairness is very simple: if the Jews were smart instead of cruel, they would realize that a multi-cultural Holy Land with many religions could be a wonderful thing if it were run under the same terms as our Bill of Rights and other significant, humanist laws! Everyone has the same legal standing in the eyes of the law. Jews can’t be on top. Nor can Christians or Muslims. All would have to have a sane system that represents EVERYONE and EVERYONE is equal in the eyes of Libra. And all would be citizens of a country, not a religious police state.
This Triparte Country could be the wellspring of great cultural mergers and cause a rebirth of religious belief in the next Age, the Age of Aquarius. For the Pisces Age is ending, the Fish which frame Pegasus’s square which is also called ‘Paradise’ by ancient Arab astronomers, this age must cause a rebirth of all three religions into one. This One should be Many. Perhaps the reign of Single Gods, which I call Death Gods, should end and we should have multiple gods again? Why isn’t this a good question?
Israeli propaganda takes international beating
Despite Israel’s propaganda campaigns on Gaza conflict, world public opinion remains critical of Tel Aviv.
TEL AVIV – Israel has taken a battering in the global media battle over its war on Gaza, despite deploying a propaganda campaign that used Youtube and blogs, experts said.Populations and even governments worldwide have slammed the Israeli military onslaught on the Gaza Strip, with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon condemning attacks near UN schools that killed dozens and foreign media angry at being kept out of the Palestinian territory.
With images of parents carrying lifeless children to overwhelmed hospitals dominating international media, angry protests have been staged in major capitals and Israeli websites have reportedly come under cyber attack.
European Union External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner told President Shimon Peres in a meeting on Tuesday that “Israel’s image is being destroyed” by its refusal to heed appeals for a ceasefire.
We see a propaganda war raging. If I talk about how the Jews have degraded themselves into embracing Naziism, I am accused of being unfair to Jews. If I were to say, that Islam is excluding the ability to grow since it clings to an outdated astronomical belief system based on Pisces, I will be attacked by mindless believers who invest all their spiritual longing into this particular coffin. And the Christians know that their own human/god, Jesus, has to return when the stars of Pisces [the very first Christian Churches featured two fishes, not Jesus], they believe their own death god will come here on earth, to Jerusalem, and KILL everyone! Ack.
Why can’t they look to the stars and marvel and say, ‘We need a new belief.’ How hard is this?
IMPOSSIBLE! We search and search for someone to show us the way and we see mostly people pointing backwards, to the past. Humanism was growing in Islamic lands after 1900 and this has not only been halted in its tracks but is in rapid retreat. Thanks mostly to European and American invaders. And in America, there has been a rush backwards, rejecting science and art. Fundamentalism is the hammer that works on an anvil of fear. The many parties at work on 9/11 and there were quite a few, they all, Christian, Jewish and Muslim, wanted the US to go crazy and become very violent. The attackers in Mumbai, the terror raining down on Gaza: all of these events were set into motion so the main religions which were spawned 2,000 years ago could have this massive confrontation.
This is the Apocalypse. I fear this event. It is WWIII. And we are not moving away from it. Allowing the Jews to kill Palestinian children brings this closer, not further away. Just like bombing children in Afghanistan didn’t fix 9/11.
CQ Politics | Gates Estimates Another $69.7 Billion Needed for Wars This Fiscal Year
Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has sent a $69.7 billion war cost “estimate” to congressional leaders and said that the outgoing administration will not formally request more war funding before President-elect Barack Obama takes office.
The estimate would cover military operations related to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, along with activities to battle terrorism around the world, for the remainder of fiscal 2009, which ends Sept. 30. It is not an official request for funding and is subject to change pending new strategic and budgetary decisions by the incoming administration.
We are going bankrupt and we are spending many multiples of billions, now, over trillions of dollars….killing children, brides, grandmothers, young men, school girls, we kill them in cold blood and worry, barely, about getting hurt, ourselves. We are going bust, everyone. Every bomb falling in Gaza has ‘Made in the USA’ on it. And is this how we are going to run our economy? Is this our export? Death? Who is at fault here?
The little girls in Gaza? Blushing brides? Taxi drivers in Baghdad? Who is the bully and who is the starving dog? During the entire Cold War, for the life of me, I cannot recall a single instance of Russian or Chinese communists gunning down people driving past them in foreign lands. Yet we do this all the time in Iraq, in Afghanistan. We did it yesterday. Anyone foolish enough to come near us gets murdered in cold blood. We do this because we are so hated, everyone wants to kill us. When a nation is this hated, it must retreat from playing at ‘diplomacy’ and perhaps not bother whoever they are making so angry. Namely, it is long past when we should fold our tent and beat a retreat. We can return when the people of Iraq or Afghanistan ask us to come back and we come back, UNARMED.
Look at Vietnam! They greet us as friends today! How easy is this? No one from America needs to fear doing business in Vietnam. We came back as friends, not foes. How simple is this?
* FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME AT emeinel@fairpoint.net
Culture of Life News 
“We can return when the people of Iraq or Afghanistan ask us to come back and we come back, UNARMED.
Look at Vietnam! They greet us as friends today! How easy is this? No one from America needs to fear doing business in Vietnam. We came back as friends, not foes. How simple is this?”
Well put, again. I just cannot comprehend how Israel thinks it can make world think that symbolic shooting of rockets justifies killing hundreds of civilians on no-ones land. But then again, there are some that buy this and are all rage about justice to self-defence… no matter at all that they so-called attacker has nowhere near the resources or power the Israeli army has.
Then there is this matter of not letting anything in or out of Gaza and starving people in there. So, I guess as long as no one in Gaza does any resistance, people would think things are well and good? Even if they are all slowly dying in there? And that resistance was not even aimed truly at civilians (or if it was, then those rockets must have sucked very much; I guess the blame is on that they are “bad on aim”… almost no deaths at all?), simply because the response would be just like this: total slaughter.
“So, I guess as long as no one in Gaza does any resistance, people would think things are well and good? Even if they are all slowly dying in there?”
By “people” I mean world outside of Gaza… no news is good news?
Elaine, that photo is so tragic and horrible, but I am glad you posted it. Perhaps people who see it will see the reality of the terror that is taking place in the Middle East…the terror that is taking the lives of countless innocent people. You are so right, we should stand up and speak out for those who are bullied!!
Gaza is one of the disputed regions under the Pals that still offer some armed resistance. The West Bank lot is completely corrupted or cowed by settlements/fortresses and does not put up a fight. Together with Egypt firmly under US thumb it is logical to destroy the remnant resistance of the Pal.
I once was part of the Liberation Day ceremony at Dachau. I was representing my father who is prominent in the business of shutting down the Nazi concentration camps.
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When I laid the bundle of tulips and roses on the trays used to slide bodies into the furnace, I broke down in tears and wept for everyone who died there. I could barely walk out again and a survivor of the camp who knew my father helped me.
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The horrors of Naziism are obvious. Why people can’t see the symptoms of that terrible disease? Are the Palestinians going to be infected by it?
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ABSOLUTELY. They are not learning how to be ‘humane’. They are learning a stark lesson: bullies win. And there is no bigger bully than the USA itself.
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The photo at the top reminds me of what really matters: children are given no choice. They are, by definition, ‘innocent’. All children killed by any wars are carried to Heaven by Pegasus, in my ‘child’ mind, the same horse that flew to me when I was hit by lightning as a small child.
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Anyway, children get to go to a Heaven where they get to grow up and have the lives they were not allowed to have on earth only it is quite different. Thus, the concept of ‘heaven’. I wish all of them peace and love and my heart breaks for the bereaved families.
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It is time to stop this farce. It is time for a tri-party meeting of all the big religious groups that believe in this awful ‘god’ of the desert and they must come to an understanding. Namely, they must sever their relations with the Death God and embrace a god that loves innocent children.
Simon, below the surface, the West Bank absolutely seethes with repressed rage and hate. Unlike Gaza, they live cheek and jowl with really nasty Jewish actions on a daily basis that is very personal and in your face. Rocks thrown at them, being spit upon, being hassled at every turn, restrictions and insults. They can’t so much as move without Jews hounding them from pillar to post. The Gazans were, for the most part, left alone. The cruelty was from afar.
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On the West Bank, it is very close and very evil. The true fearsome force that will be the whirlwind when the US collapses will rise from the West Bank and yes, they will try to utterly destroy all Jews. And this will be the Apocalypse, of course.
Whoa! we got charisma, Lets go to Pakistan!
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-53565441845289277&q=nuclear+fision&total=185&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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the depraved starving children dont understand us
That is what I meant, they are kept downtrodden in West Bank
In Gaza they are not, which is why it was attacked
One of the interesting things about humans, we will more easily forgive the murder of our parents than the theft of our purse. Machiavelli noted this 500+ years ago.
I have read so many news stories bewailing the fact that the US’s bombing of Iraq or Afghanistan or Israel’s murderous rages against Gaza will just produce a new generation of terrorists. And I keep wondering when we will see the Vietnamese terrorists that should have been born and inculcated into USA hatred during the agent oranging and the operation linebackering of their country. Funny isn’t it, no vietnamese terrorists motivated by the over 3million vietnamese dead at the hands of the USA. Maybe it is because the USA didn’t try to steal their purses.
So extending upon Machiavelli’s insight into government and war, first you kill all of them —then there is no one around to avenge them when you steal the leftovers. It worked for the USA here, just visit South Dakota.
Ck: “Funny isn’t it, no vietnamese terrorists motivated by the over 3million vietnamese dead at the hands of the USA. Maybe it is because the USA didn’t try to steal their purses.”
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No oil in Vietnam. The US did have a need to “create” Vietnamese terrorists.
Correction: The US did NOT have a need to “create” Vietnamese terrorists.
Maybe it is because the Vietnamese are a beaten people, like the Japanese after WWII
You don’t see huge outcries over Japanese terrorists, although there were some notorious ones like the Red Army.
@Simon I don’t know exactly how to break the news to you. but the Vietnamese were not beaten, not even half. You might want to review the pictures from 1975 of the US military and CIA assets dangling from hueys trying to run away from Saigon.
And as EMS so cogently points out, the japanese use financial terrorism it is much more cost efficient, almost as cost efficient as the US inspired narco terrorism in what will be the North American equivalent of Gaza, the northern border of Mexico.
Great article Elaine. We need to let the world know what these damn US sponsored Zionist freaks are doing to their own people and the true Semites they have dispossessed. The world is in an outrage over this but because of the Zionist controlled press here in Amerika the word does not get out.
I listened to a BBC Radio broadcast last night, they allowed a very smug Israeli spokesman 4 or 5 minutes to spew his propaganda with the moderator throwing softball questions at him….enough to make a sane person puke, no time allowed for a Palestinian voice.
Then we have the likes of Jim Kunstler running his mouth about the ‘poor Jews’ and the ‘anti-Semites’ here in America…..another ‘puke’. At least I see that Bob Moriarty of 321Gold kicked him in the balls. See his piece on 321, “I Am Ashamed”. Let’s hear it for Moriarty.
I believe that the world can now see who the real ‘terrorists’ are…..it is those who have the power to blow people away from great distances, the suicide bombers are acting out of defense and desperation. I ask any of you; How you would fight back when your enemy has huge tanks, artillery, guided missiles, fighter jets, bombs…even a nuclear one, and you have some pipe, powder and a solid object?……just who the hell is the terrorist here?
I am so sick and tired of the old ‘anti-Semite’, politics of victim hood, the ‘Holocaust Industry’ horseshit I could puke again. When the hell are people in the Western world going to wake up to the fact that we are lied to on a scale that is unimaginable to a sane society. We believe in much stranger ‘gods’ than any decadent, pagan barbarians of the past. We should all be ashamed that we have allowed ourselves to be so cowed and manipulated. Like Elaine says….let’s start with the damn politicians WE elected….who are on the payroll of the Zionist lobbies [and others] as they sell our posterity into financial and physical bondage and constant war. Let’s start a revolution by electing the right people on the local level and then we can ferret out the snakes in DC. We also need to boycott the mainstream media, starting today.
CK, you are correct, the Vietnamese were not beaten, they beat the US to a financial surrender fighting a war of attrition. At the end of the day the corporate war profits could not justify the taxes and government deficit spending. Plus the soldier casualty rate was way up. (Today this is much worse but no one is making any noise as they are too fat and lazy from all the easy credit and good life this past decade, not lean and mean like our Woodstock generation, MTV really regressed a whole generation)
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Simon, the Japanese are to this day admired by the American elite, for their discipline and work ethic. A country with NO natural resources to speak but that became No. 2 economy in the world is a very good milking cow. Their national mindset and discipline a most efficient engine for industrial growth. Carry trade notwithstanding. It would have been a waste to create Japanese terrorists. Further, they are extremely nationalistic, not religious which is more prone to the terrorist mindset.
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Today the Japanese economy is Ichi-ban if only for a little while thanks to the greed and stupidity of Wall Street. They had a good racket going till the retards running the show stopped minding the store and wrecked the party. But there is an upside to all this, we get to dance by a new tune.
hardrock, you took the words out of my mouth. When Elaine and or anyone who dares speak out the truth about Zionist crimes against humanity they are marginalized or worse, accidentally run over by a bulldozer. What we are seeing and living through today is a Nazism perfected. And through media it projects itself with such kind, caring and eloquent voices, making it all the more evil.
CK, you have that ‘dead on’. It is a US sponsored and controlled ‘narco zone’. I have a friend in southern Arizona as we speak, he is training ‘first responders’ on ‘nuclear survival’ techniques. He sends me emails, and tells me it is like a war zone down there. Talk about ‘Balkanization’. He says everyone is on edge, they know something is terribly wrong with our country and think some big event is going to happen to change things….not necessarily for the better according to him.
Again, myths…..we believe in myths. We think that politicians represent the people. We think we are running out of oil. We think our money is real. We think we live better than most because we’re deserving.
We think all cultures are equal. We think men and women are equal. Sorry Elaine, ‘multiculturalism’ is an oxymoron. The word itself means ‘NO CULTURE’. We deny reality. We believe in what people tell us. We are empty vessels who got filled with horseshit. We think people are truly educated if they have PHD, MD, MA…whatever, behind their names. We’ve turned them out in droves….to the point of them being a burden on society. What happened to common sense and calling things by their right name.
We are in a state of WAR, whether you believe it or not. WE are at war with China, Russia and most of the oil producing states. Look for oil prices to continue down in order to bring Russia to her knees….again. Putin is in the cross hairs. We will attempt to drive China back to a feudal fiefdom, dirty industries and all. Elaine talks about their ‘great 50 year plan’. Actually it was a 20 year plan, it was working but the big ‘boyz’ decided they would accelerate the trap as the Chinese were moving too fast, too strong, as was Russia. We have counter-operatives also, and they have a great advantage….they have weapons, experience and last but not least….control of the money spigot. They are not going to allow some upstart third world country nor a defeated foe to wrench control from them….no way. If it comes to nuclear war, so be it. The entrenched money powers are much stronger when fighting a foreign enemy than their own populace. We will get crumbs as they get richer….not because they love us….they need us…we provide a base, kinda like Elaine’s description of the pirate coves in the Caribbean, only the United States of America is the biggest pirate cove in the world and the biggest corporation with the dumbest population. Gotta love it Bubba!
Simon and cc:
Say, after me, “US Imperialists were defeated and expelled by Vietnamese patriots. No ifs or buts, no excuses. Defeated.” There, that wasn’t so hard, was it? Maybe it was. There again, my young days were spent acknowledging that British Imperialists were being kicked out by one lot of terrorists/freedom fighters/insurgents/patriots after another.
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When Robert McNamara revisited Vietnam long after the war, he dined with his former enemies. They told him that they had never had any intention to invade other countries (remember the “domino theory”?), adding that they were merely doing what the Vietnamese had always done: resist any invaders and drive them out, irrespective of whether they were American, French, or even Chinese.
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cc:
No oil in Vietnam? Well, there is now:
“Phu Khanh Basin may contain the equivalent of 5.4 billion barrels of oil, or 16% of the 33.6 billion estimated to lie in Vietnam’s continental shelf,” Tran Duc Chinh, PetroVietnam’s acting general manager for exploration, said in an interview.”
From:
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/2838
I seem to recall Vietnamese oil was developed by the Russians, who adhere to the abiotic oil theory. They found it by drilling much deeper than Western oil companies would have considered, at the time. Now Western companies are drilling off Brazil, in the deep ocean; maybe they no longer believe in oil from dinosaurs, either.
Somehow, even if the oil was thought to be there, I doubt the US would have considered it worth the effort by 1975.
The Vietnamese hold their heads up and look any American or anyone else straight in the eye, and this includes China also. They have beaten the most powerful nations on earth with open warfare.
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The US left Vietnam with its tail between its legs and with bullets ringing in their ears. (I know I was one of those with bullets ringing in my ears.)
While those sacrifices Vietnamese made will never be forgotten, driving your enemy from your land does relieve the need for revenge just a little.
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Now, if Americans want to do business with Vietnamese, they approach them with a smile on their face and their hat in their hand. This is how all relationships should be conducted.
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Vietnamese primarily used the teachings of Sun Tzu, the 4th century Chinese military writer, to defeat the US. The Japanese have used Sun Tzu and applied his teachings to business principles, and they have defeated the US economy also.
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Some things Sun Tzu teaches are as follows:
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Hold your major armies in reserve until the time is right.
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Attack fixed contingents of the enemy where he is weakest.
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Cause the enemy to endlessly maneuver in search of conflict until he is exhausted…then attack.
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Draw out the conflict indefinitely and cause him to expend his resources. The enemy’s morale will weaken and he will defeat himself with overreach in everything he does.
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Military victory is not political victory.. You must win politically to gain anything from conflict.
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Israel’s ethnic cleansing tactics, since Biblical days, have always been to discourage Vietnamese style resistance like Sun Tzu teaches. To do this they use stark, cold-blooded murder and terriorism.
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When the Bible tells about Israel killing every man,woman,child and animal in Jericho, that was the same operational plan we are witnessing today. They survive by spreading terror in the surrounding “tribes.”
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The Vietnamese were willing to doggedly and fearlessly bear the entire brunt of US military might in order to resist oppression. They understood from 100 years of French colonial rule that you cannot “make a deal with the devil” and ever come out on top. So they were willing to sacrifice an entire generation of their young people in order to defeat the US.
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Israel survives in the Middle East by instilling fear in everyone who surrounds them…and that is their main objective. Ethnic cleansing and fragmentation of surrounding peoples is how they achieve this…spreading fear and terror and disarray in surrounding “tribes.” They make no real secret about it.
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I can see no future benefits for the US to be attached to an ally that operates in this manner.
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In fact, I see no real benifits for the US allying itself with Israel at all, except to please its wealthy US Jewish population. At some point, US Jewish-Americans need to decide whether they are US citizens or Israelis, and act accordingly.
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Economically, If US Middle Eastern policy treated oil producing nations with respect, the US would benefit much more than what we are doing now. We are reaching a point where our questionable Middle Eastern policy is working against us.
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So, as Elaine repeatedly noted, religion is at the heart of this conflict. Nothing rational about it.
Vietnam and McNamara: War could have been avoided.
Couldn’t find the interview I wanted, but McNamara says pretty much what I was looking for about 49 minutes in here:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=InM-E64AUOc
hardrock:
The BBC was infiltrated at the upper levels many moons ago. I give it zero credibility on anything except Britney Spears and friends, and I’d only give them 20% on that. It’s a joke, and we’re supposed to cough up £139.50 p.a. (c. $212) for a TV license to pay for it. The usual tactic: we get to pay for our being controlled.
Keep in mind, also, that our Foreign Secretary, David Miliband, has this background:
“Born in London, David Miliband is the elder son of Polish-born Marion Kozak and the late Belgian-born Marxist intellectual Ralph Miliband. Both paternal grandparents lived in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw.” More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Miliband
So don’t expect any sympathy for the Palestinians. (Likewise, Sarkozy.)
Keeping it in “the family” is brother, Ed, who runs the Department of Energy and Climate Change (yes, Climate Change, I kid you not).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband
BTW, didn’t Eric Blair (George Orwell) develop his ideas while working for the BBC? These days, I would credit Al-Jazeera’s English language channel with more balance than Auntie Beeb (not that I see much of it).
Bear, I stand corrected on both counts! LOL. The deep oil must have been a blessing for the Vietnamese, if it were easier to pump they (US) would have never left, or worse, they would’ve imported some fat camel jockeys to be their Kings. ;->
cc:
Thanks for the “LOL”. I (mostly) try to post in a spirit of good humour, but it’s not easy to get it right in text, which can easily be taken harshly. Forgetting the smileys (which I did) doesn’t help.
All the best.
Oops. All the best 🙂 😳
I saw a rather distasteful article in the WSJ this morning… it appears that some local Isrealis have taken to setting up shop with lawn chairs, binoculars, picnic baskets, etc. on the hills overlooking Gaza, in order to watch the procedings.
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No matter who you may be for or against in some conflict or other… war isn’t a spctator sport. Those hills may be an attractive place for Hamas to lob a few rockets, provided they can get them to go where they want them to.
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“Unlike Gaza, [in the West BAnk] they live cheek and jowl…”
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They do indeed – it’s part of the long term strategy. Arafat once said, “We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion..” You see… if each man has 20 sons, and each of those has 20 sons… and each man teaches each son about the perfidy of the Jews… eventually you either end up with enough sons to overrun Israel, or you end up standing on each other’s shoulders in the West Bank and Gaza. (And it strikes me that some of those sons should try for some daughters here and there, for verily it is written that it taketh two to tango, forsooth….)
“I ask any of you; How you would fight back when your enemy has huge tanks, artillery, guided missiles, fighter jets, bombs…even a nuclear one, and you have some pipe, powder and a solid object?……just who the hell is the terrorist here?”
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Depends on where you set it off, doesn’t it? Are you going after a military target, or are you trying for restaurants, transit buses, and shopping centers? Do you hold that on the side of the powerful, there are no “civilians”? The powerful may decide that wisdom cuts both ways.
And how many schools has the IDF blown up, killing refugees who were told BY THE IDF, to go to the schools for shelter? EH?
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There are two forms of right wingers here: JSmith’s sort. And Hardrock’s sort. Smith thinks it is funny to oppress non-Jews. Hardrock wants ethnic cleansing, too. I HAVE A MULTI-CULTURAL-MULTI-ETHNIC FAMILY.
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Monocultures suck. Ethnic cleansing sucks. I hate the ideology behind BOTH with a passion.
@JS: The powerful had already decided that there were no innocents and no civilians a long time ago. What has angered the powerful is that the powerless finally got the message and applied the same theories. If you need references, try Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Katyn forest, Dachau, Shabra and Shatila, Qana, Fallauja etc. etc for the powerful point of view; Marine barracks Beirut, 9/11, Madrid, Bali, Nairobi and Dar es Salaam for the less powerful’s learning curves. As the US and British Air Forces so pointedly proved in WWII there are no civilian targets only military ones they have not hit yet.
Hey Doctor Smith
The lighting in your govt office must be terrible.
It must be the old kind of florescent lighting
that makes everything look dull and drab. Get
them to upgrade your lighting and your emotions
and logic may improve. What a Troll’s Job you must
have combing the internet for us few “lefties”
and scolding us all the time. Look, you Neo-Cons/
Neo/Liberals totally won here. Take credit for
your wild success. You have, over the last 30ys,
defeated almost every last remnant of socialism.
Quit being so unhappy over us “lefties” ! We didnt crash your banks. We didnt break your budget fighting “savages” in the 3rd world. You
cannot blame your success on the non-existant
left wing, eh ? Blame your success on the mirror
(unless you’ve removed all the mirrors from your
house and workplace)
No, the root cause of ALL wars is money, or the love thereof to be more specific. Money is a tool with which people with power extract wealth from people without power. Politics is the struggle for power. War is politics by “other” means.
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Religion is just part of mind control, in so far as it being a basis for committing violence.
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But Elaine is right that God loves innocent children. Of course, one would have to be weak minded not to understand that. But, humanity is becoming more weak minded, not less. Also, the science and technology that self-proclaimed “enlightened” people “worship” is just as double edged as religion, if not more so.
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The weak mindedness is brought on by trauma, and psychological dehumanization through many operations, including religious manipulation, but don’t forget pop culture, which includes rock ‘n’ roll, big time.
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Speaking of the lean and mean Woodstock generation, it turns out that Jimi Hendrix’s manager was a British intelligence agent. Jimi, a musical genius, eventually realized himself that rock ‘n’ roll was mostly ridiculous. He announced that he wanted to get out of his contract and study music at Julliard shortly before his “overdose”.
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So it’s always ‘the other guy’ that is responsible for all of society’s ills. To liberal humanists the religious fanatics are the root of all evil. To the religious conservatives the humanist hedonistic heathens are the sole cause of society’s ills.
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And the Muses coined irony.
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The truth never comes out in the open and roars like a lion saying, “behold, it is I, the obvious truth’. No, it hides like a mouse, making itself scarce in the presence of all forms of self- righteousness.
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But then again, I’m just a jester.
“What has angered the powerful is that the powerless finally got the message and applied the same theories.”
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Big problem there: as the Palestinians are finding out, the powerful can take out more of the powerless than the powerless can take out of the powerful. Arithmetic, unfortunately, is not on the side of the powerless.
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“As the US and British Air Forces so pointedly proved in WWII there are no civilian targets only military ones they have not hit yet.”
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Somehow you missed London. Nanking, too.
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“Smith thinks it is funny to oppress non-Jews.”
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Actually… I don’t. Human folly, on the other hand, is irresistably risible.
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Consider for a moment whether the Palestinian strategy of provoking massive responses to attacks of limited effectiveness has liberated a square centimeter of the Occupied Territory Formerly Known As Palestine. … Yeah, I didn’t think so either. In order for The Weight of World Opinion to be effective, the power in question first has to give a damn what the world thinks. And the Israelis don’t, particularly. (Neither do the Americans, the Russians, etc., etc., …)
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You’re still having language issues, Gary. Not at all sure what your opinion of my job or office has to do with the point at hand, but as far as it goes… I’m not at all unhappy with “lefties”. Humor, after all, is wherever you find it,and without “lefties” the world would be a far duller and less amusing place!
a little bit. i enjoyed tremendously the savage argument about julius caesar on this site. (the level of learning was so high for me i was forced to visit about pigs some to even things out). anyway, here is what i think we are coming to. i think a lot of you believe that america is in its last tottering days like when the barbarians entered rome finally. i.e. the end of roman empire. and i am not sure sure. i think maybe the period we might be entering here might be more comparable to the times that created caesar. i.e. we are going to give up on democracy and the times will call up a stong man to transform our bankrupt republic into something else.
hi gary. i appreciated your humor and especially when you added the part about the mirrors!
JS
You are a sociopath
Openly hidden, I am one of the very, very few online sites that ENCOURAGES debate even if the posters are very far right and very far left. Outright Nazis of the ‘Aryan’ sort get to fight it out with outright ‘Zionists’.
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This means, people accuse me of being evil. Letting people argue is a good thing, I believe and I encourage this. Having a series of hives across the internet that never interact or intersect is totally stupid and utterly nasty.
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Reinforcing ideas is PROPAGANDA. Debate is good and there is no debate if there is only one side. I don’t agree with many posters here and I absolutely love all who come here and expose themselves. I do take sides here: my own side, of course! As it ought to be.
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But no one is banned or called a ‘troll’. Never.
I really like the debates that spring up all over the internet and find it fascinating that so many of them are quashed (on liberal sites!) because they tread on “holy” (i.e. forbidden) ground. In the last couple of years, “holy” has come to mean any comment that criticizes Jewish actions for behaviour that often deserves criticism. (this is not the only “forbidden” topic, of course)
Elaine, you continue to gain my interest because of your outspoken ways.
we are awash in propaganda; time for a change, huh?
Sorry Elaine, I just lost my cool w/JS
I cant meet him in a parking lot so I may as
well ignore him and a few others.
Please, Vietnam is a basketcase until the Soviets are gone in the 90s. Then there was the belated ‘reform’ which opened up some what.
Any SEA nation attracting paedophiles is not exactly a national power.
“Namely, they must sever their relations with the Death God and embrace a god that loves innocent children.”
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This is the crux of the matter. Thanks for saying it, Elaine.
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Most cannot see it because the non-Jewish world is now so small that it cannot be heard, but it is still here and there in places where the Jews forgot to exterminate us because they were so busy fighting each other for the right to claim the status of “Most Holy” in the eyes of their blood-soaked desert god — a most dubious distintion.
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The battle line is between the Jewish world and the non-Jewish world. The mindset of the Jews is to destroy everything because their “god” gave them “dominion” over all life forms, and they have asserted their right to destroy all life forms if they so wish — in the name of their god, of course.
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In the non-Jewish world, no god commands us to destroy all living things or even gave us permission to think such things. All life forms are equal in the non-Jewish world.
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This is why Vietnam and other countries in Indochina are different. They did not adopt the mindset of the Jew — for that is what it is: a mindset, a way of viewing the world and everything in it.
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I never felt the presence of the Jewish mindset as I traveled in Thailand, and it felt great. It was like being free from an omnipresent dark force that weighs heavily on your mind. It just does not exist in Thailand, and I would suspect it does not exist in Vietnam either.
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I am not a Buddhist, but to the Thais it did not matter. What mattered was that I did not act like a Jew, and they treated me with respect and friendliness because of it.
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I know the Jews will come out of the woodwork to attack me and perhaps others as well for saying these things, but I don’t care. That is what they do best. Look at their history. They destroy everything or try to no matter where they go, and there is no mercy to those who refuse to convert or submit.
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A good place to see the stark difference between the mindset of the Jew and that of the non-Jew is to read the first reports sent back to Europe by the so-called “discoverers” of America.
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People in Indochina still think very much like Native Americans from what I saw and experienced, and this is perhaps why they have no crusades or jihads. It is not part of their mindset.
Simon:
On Vietnam as basket case: what would you expect of a country ravaged by war?
As for paedophiles, if you’re thinking of our own, pathetic, Gary Glitter, he WAS jailed for three years before being ejected, although I can’t see what your point is.
Anyway, how about this:
“Not only did King’s pedophile ring lead to the top echelons of the Republican Party it also lead to the top of the Bush administration and the Oval Office. Several of the children in Kings prostitution ring recount stories of seeing George Bush at some of King’s Parties.”
Urban myth?
http://tinyurl.com/8a7b75
@Simon: The southeast asian nation that is paedophile destination is Thailand ( Dominican Republic here in the west if your finances do not cover a trip to Phuket), close to but infinitely far from Vietnam. As far as attracting investment, Vietnam is. In 1975, Vietnam finally ended what amounted to 400 years of warfare within the borders of their country. By 1985 they had recovered and were exporting … they even have a home grown auto industry ( next market was to have been the USA but that appears doubtful now ).
@Gary JS is one of the many people here who does not confuse “shoulds” with reality. Humans are infinitely risible. Why just today Mr Hope announced that the head RIAA attorney is his choice for the #3 slot in the DOJ, and some clown attorney who fought for an extension of the Sonny Bono copywright extension act is headed for the # 2 slot. Don’t pirate that song my friend or Mr Hope and Change’s people will ship your ass to New Gitmo.
DeVaul:
“All life forms are equal in the non-Jewish world.”
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Can’t agree with that. Buddhists are able to regard others as having been reincarnated into whatever social position they are born into. Consequently, if you are poor, or deformed, it is your own fault for being bad in a previous life. If a higher ranking Buddhist chooses to beat you or abuse you, that is because you were placed into your situation for just such a purpose. Your beating will improve your position in your next life.
It is just this mentality that the communist Chinese overthrew in Tibet. The Dalai Lama is just another Pope. It’s all superstition, prejudice, and incense. Grrrr…
Should have said, “Even Buddhists, for, example,…”
Bring back the Preview! 😳
No doubt you are right, Bear, but I did not intend to say that the non-Jewish world was perfect. And yes, there is inequality, and different non-Jewish cultures have different levels of it. Perhaps I was thinking more of my own religion when I said that. Sorry.
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On the other hand, the non-Jewish world does not pray for and hope for the Apocolypse (sp?), nor will they do everything they can to bring it about. It will come out of what the Jews call “The Holy Land” — the greatest misnomer in the history mankind.
You are wrong Elaine, multiculturism combined with usury creates stagflation and leads to ethnic cleansing.
charlie the jester: while the manager of Jimi Hendrix may have been an intelligence agent I would surmise that his purpose was intel gathering, not manipulation. Could he have contributed to the overdose, who knows? Point being (we) the kids then were willing to face the National Guard, and police, and to try and change the status quo. I know I did in highschool, against Marcos. Today, its paparazzi hour with Perez on Whatthebuck. Big diff.
[..]
When I look at the photos of antiwar demonstrations that took place across London and America last year I notice that most people are in their 50’s, Woodstock generation. Even this blog is run by a Woodstock denizen, right Elaine? Of course, Lucy, the daughter of George Galloway would be an exception. But I take it you get my point? I get yours, sweeping statements like mine are not 100% accurate either, they are not meant to be. I get that too. Cheers.
Simon said, “Please, Vietnam is a basketcase until the Soviets are gone in the 90s. Then there was the belated ‘reform’ which opened up some what. Any SEA nation attracting paedophiles is not exactly a national power.”
[..]
You have a point Simon, Vietnam was a basket case until the communists figured out that it just didn’t work without an Evil Empire to fight with. So they turned to the free enterprise system, and that took time and a lot of tweaking since they never came from this system.
[..]
What’s America’s excuse? 😉
Message from Z.G.Korwan [JDLI] Chief of Intelligence,to Meir Dagan. ‘The only solitary thing the Arab understands is the heavy hand.’ ‘Forget this and our plight will continue.’ ‘A 500lb bomb on every Palestine village that steps out of line will remedy the problem very quickly.’ ‘We are Jews and they are not, that is the difference.’! ‘Accordingly we have the right.’
[..]
JSmith, perhaps if Gary would drop a 500 pounder on your home you would get the point? I think not. 😉
JSmith, so very sorry, I forgot, Gary is not a Jew, accordingly he does not have the right!
I am a veteran of the 1967 Summer of Love, the 1968 student rebellions in Europe and all the Berkeley business of the Vietnam War. Even was arrested more than once. Moved out of my parents home in 1967 when barely 16 years old, legally, at that!
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And I am a ‘liberal’ who devoutly believes in debating all people including even the very far LEFT wing…heh…whatever is left of that group. Otherwise, I debate the far right. Seriously, I see virtually no debate anywhere on the web unlike way back in the old days before 2000. We had huge, raging debates at all sorts of forums all of which were shut down.
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Vietnam: they won the wars. Even when China invaded! HAHAHA. They are a most interesting people very much like Afghanistan’s people are amazing. But please remember: the only people who surge forwards in history are those to take in OUTSIDE INFLUENCES and CHANGE themselves! Isn’t that most amazing?
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Monocultures slowly rot away unless they allow influxes of new stuff and new people with new ideas. The merging forces are creative. Otherwise, culture becomes a tomb.
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People with really boring cultures have no idea how stifling they are if they never explore anything new or different. This is why travel should broaden one’s horizons. I have traveled all over this planet and loved it because I didn’t do it in a bubble. I did it on foot or on transportation that was not for tourists. A great experience.
Amen Elaine!
Hey, criticalcontrarian, maybe we should do the Zen hitchhiking together! 🙂 So long as I can bring my meds and heat rub for the arthritis.
Copy that Elaine! Will bring you some Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM for the arthritis, that’ll take care of that. And some CSNY to listen too, particularly 4 Way Street! And teach you some vegetarian recipes as well. You can give me lessons on playing the violin. 🙂
[..]
Have been wanting to do New Zealand.
WHAT A CROCK ELAINE. Did China, Japan, Sweden, most of northern Europe ‘rot away’? How about the people of Africa, the Bedouin, the Persians. They are still there the last time I looked. What is rotting away is the Western World from all the mythical nonsense that lefties have shoved down our throats. Show me the end results of ‘multiculturalism’. For now I’ll show you Yugoslavia, modern London, Paris, most big US cities, how about Rio DeJenaro and a host of cities where different cultures are pressed together….plenty of ‘real evidence’ that most lefty minded folks just have a way of ignoring. There aren’t any ‘no go’ zones. It is a myth. Myths, that’s what people love….Myths.
Don’t put words in my mouth Elaine. You are foolish to make the claim that I ‘want ethnic cleansing’. Just because I see the results of ‘NO Culture’, foisted upon us by the ‘ONE WORLDERS’ under the screwy, nonsensical name of ‘multicultural’ has nothing whatsoever to do with ethnic cleansing. How foolish this makes you look when you make such outlandish claims. I am a lover of different cultures. They are formed over hundreds if not thousands of years, they should be preserved, respected, with hopes of the best of their ideas surviving. If one travels…and one must travel to see a real culture in its rightful place, one does have the opportunity to learn of many helpful things that can be used in ones own culture. What you lefties seem to believe is that ‘culture’ is portable, like a suitcase, to be brought to a foreign land, opened up and turned loose on unsuspecting and unappreciative folks who like their own culture which is adapted to the place they live. That is my problem….lefties and their interpretation of what is ‘good for society’. If they like it then everyone should embrace it or there will be sanctions. God, sometimes I think you would make a good comrade, Soviet style.
Sorry Elaine, I got a little carried away there. No, you are someone I actually LOVE, you have more damn spirit and guts than nearly anyone I’ve known…..you would make a shitty ‘comrade’. I get after you at times, but don’t you or any of your readers think I don’t respect and admire you. It’s kinda like arguing with a sibling….gets kinda heated at times…but the ‘love’ is still there. Great piece on the Red Cross today. I feel just like you….in a goddamn rage over the chickenshit congress and administration. Where the hell is the President-elect? Say something. Do something.
BTW, new product out that I’ve been using Elaine. I’ve suffered for 40 years with lower back pain. I started drinking this juice in September and the pain was gone by mid October….has not returned. I won’t tell you here as folks will think I am promoting it. Send me an email and I’ll tell you privately. It does wonders for arthritis also. It is a combination of juices from the Amazon.
I for one would like to hear more about “multiculturalism”.
It`s a wonderful ideal, and brings many advantages.
On the other hand, I wouldn`t like to see the entire world wearing the same clothing and sitting down to a plate of “Kellogg`s Corn Flakes” every morning(SHUT UP, STOP MOANING, THERE ARE TEN FLAVOURS!)
When I was 14 years old, there was a Friday night dance at the local church hall with a live band every week, real people playing real instruments. Since the music industry was globalised in the 1960`s that`s all gone. I know Britney is heavenly, but I have the feeling that we have lost something important.
We like multiculti when it leads to new interesting restaurants, the occasional quirky movie, a new look in transitory fashion, an interesting way of making music. The things and ideas and visuals shaped by other geographies and other modes of living are interesting and useful, the carriers of those things … not so much. We can enjoy the Somali food without needing to import the somalis and their female genital mutilation e.g. The Somalis can enjoy Caterpillar tractors without needing to import Peorians.
I note in passing how often EMS remarks on her enjoyment of Japanese Anime … not a multiculti society at all but an interesting product of a monoculture; just as Samauri swords, bonzai cats, lacquer ware and the Japanese tea ceremony can all be enjoyed without needing a Japanese contingent.
Go into a forced multiculti neighbourhood and see the distance, distrust, disharmony, cliquishness that is the norm. Doesn’t matter if the cultis involved are national origin, racial, religious; when forced by the state to commingle, multiculti inhabitants prefer to not commingle. Co-existence is problematic. That which separates us each from the other is what makes us great; that which homogenizes us is what makes us poorer.
The greatest causes of American cultural poverty over the last 60 years has been our ubiquitous guest the television and its handmaiden homogenized public education.
Not all cultures are of equal value, just as not all people are of equal value. There are two equalities in this world; we are all created ( so far ) by the same physical process and we all end up dead; in between each of us succeeds or fails, rises or falls, gains or loses in our individually unequal manners. What is true in the atomistic over a human time scale of 70 years is true also of cultures, religions, borders, national identities, philosophies, and all the other baggages that human idleness and human desires for specialness and myths create.
Oh gosh guys, I’m not far left. Far left for
me is “dictatorship of the proletariat” or some such other Commie nonsense. Please read some of my previous
posts on the need for creative tension between
socialism and capitalism. But Marx was right on
one point and that is there ARE economic classes
of people (thru luck,abilities,environment,family etc) and the class on the top will eventually, with no regulations, will degrade and exploit those below and the result of this is overproduction and near slavery and then economic crash. If I come across as dogmatic sometimes, it’s because I try to
be rational, but as you can see from above, rationality only works to a point. First the ability to be rational in the face of greed and violence runs out, then the adjectives run out, and then the verbs take over, ha ha. Such is life. But I dont want any commie revolutions. Revolutions usually make things worse. As far as “leftists” wanting
a one world culture, that is BS. Its the neo-
liberal/ neo-conservative corporate authoritarians that want that. I like a little
bit of “anarchy” which is nothing but low level
squabbling where no one philosophy gets the upper hand. Although I dont like seeing the natives of different areas wearing levis and drinking Starbucks, that’s really inevitable and natural when people meet and intermingle. The Anasazi indians of the SW desert acquired a lot of their
culture from the Olmecs and Aztecs to the south.
Their ball courts, love of parrots for pets, and
shell jewelry were brought from the south, along
with some of their architectural styles. Things mix and re-mix constantly with cultures.
We see the effects of powerful empires: in ancient Rome, everyone aped the Romans, just for example. Multiculturalism enriches countries. Is Japan a ‘monoculture’ or is is DOMINATED BY OTHER CULTURES? Eh?
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Even eating with chopsticks is dying off there. The culture of Japan isn’t ‘Japanese’ anymore. Since they are struggling with the American culture as well as European culture, they have an interesting NEW culture? See?
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Sweden isn’t a monoculture AT ALL. They have MANY IMMIGRANTS. Go check it out some time. I am a 100% multiculturalist who believes that the dead hand of imperial culture is enriched when it encounters alien cultures and both change radically in these mixings and we see this all over the earth.
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And the rush to conformity is due to fears of losing one’s bearings in all this. For some reason, I don’t fear change. Imagine that! HAHAHA.
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Remember: we voted for change. As for conservatives, I am a conservative when it comes to nobility stuff: opera, classical music, ballet, novels, entertainments, I hate a lot of modern entertainment. Seriously, the Japanese anime I love the most use riffs from classical music a lot. Imagine that!
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The sales of violins and pianos are greatest in Asian countries, incidentally. Just like Communist Russia was good for ballet.
I love and highly recommend the Communist Russian version of Tolstoy’s War and Peace. I have the epic movie and it is amazing. And the Russians do ‘nobility’ much better than Americans. American movies about royalty are pathetic in comparison. The royals act like peasants.
Who’s this “we” white person of the female persuasion? I voted for Ron Paul … pulled out the old ballpoint and wrote his name in the assigned space. Electing him would have been real change. Folks do love them some snake oil flavoured with HFCS; they bought the half white change instead of the old traitor change … two peas in a multiculti pod. Remember: Only a Nixon could go to Red China; only an Obama can strip Social Security. Nixon was smarter, Obama is better shaven. And we all know just how important a close smooth shave is for attracting the voting hoi polloi. Bah frigging Hum friggin Bug.
Elaine, you wrote: “Remember: we voted for change. As for conservatives, I am a conservative when it comes to nobility stuff: opera, classical music, ballet, novels, entertainments, I hate a lot of modern entertainment. Seriously, the Japanese anime I love the most use riffs from classical music a lot. Imagine that!”
You seem to like the things which you would call ‘monoculture’ has brought us….those things you just pointed out would never in a million years grow out of a multicultural society. Study history, you’ll come to one conclusion. Homogeneous societies prevail over all others. Sweden by the way has fallen into the trap of believing in ‘myth’. They are paying a helluva price and if you talk to everyday, common Swedish folks…you know, the ones who produce something and never are asked an opinion…they hate multiculturalism. They know it is destroying their culture. They think just like I have written here. Multiculturalism is an oxymoron..period. My great grandfather was born and raised in Malmo, near Stockholm. For hundreds of years it was a stable working class area….multiculturalism has turned it into a crime ridden ghetto where the police hate to even go into. Lefties, righties, myth makers of all shapes and sizes never can see very far down the road. They love to ‘tinker’ with society with their lack of concern for the future or the consequences of their tinkering. Multiculturalism is a form of tinkering…denying reality, myth making of the worst kind. The end results of it will not be pretty.
Good grief, you know so little about the history of ‘high culture’, me laddie!
What we call ‘high culture’ comes from multicultural mixes. Things people think are ‘native’ are NOT. Let’s take marching music like Sousa: this came out of TURKEY. Eh? Weird, isn’t it? Thanks to the mania for all things Turkish in 1700s, Turkish marching music swept Europe.
Elaine is right.
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The height of the greatness of the Western art music tradition, for example, was due to an unprecedented merging of styles, mainly by Germanic composers, especially J.S. Bach and his disciples like Chopin, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, etc. Before that merging of the French and English styles was a major breakthrough. In fact, the whole Renaissance style was created by the importation of ideas from England to the mainland that originated with Vikings, who were, uh, “making the rounds” during the middle ages warm period.
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Then Wagner came along and decreed that German nationalism was where it was at. For some idiotic reason, everyone decided to copy that guy. There was a big push towards nationalism in art everywhere, especially music.
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Not 50 years later the whole tradition, spanning over 1000 years, was reduced to a bizarre academic exercise and had lost practically all of its cultural relevance, except what was used by totalitarian monsters to reinforce state propaganda.
@CK
LMAO
You mean we are not all snow flakes! But rather, flaky!
Charlie, it is worse than that. The collapse of music, for example, was due to it being SEVERED from ‘folk song’ and the potpourri of tonic melodies of many different types of people.
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You see, the ‘classical’ composers went about, listening to music made by peasants and gypsies, etc and then transformed it. For example, Brahm’s first symphony opens with the French horns playing a lovely melody which he heard while hiking in the mountains. There are millions of such examples.
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Then, instead of musicians being journeymen, so to speak, learning as apprentices, they made it something you learned in school. Then, it was intellectualized while being severed from religion. No composer was as ‘intellectual’ as Bach but he was also very spiritual. Schoenberg, the creator of the 12 Tone disaster wrote some of the most luxurious music in Vienna before he ripped it all apart after WWI and diminished it to the barest bones. Stravinsky did the same.
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Cultures are like the clothes we wear…literally. And this warps and changes as social winds blow about us. Look at how fashion ceased to be made by Paris and is now made by street thugs.
@Dutch
Ahyup
@EMS High culture and Sousa in the same sentence is oxymoronic. What next? The ineffable high culture of mummer’s parades? It is well known that the Japanese will take anything and adapt it to their own uniculture. Anything but not anyone.
Shostakovich, Smetana, Grieg to name three did not need to import other nation’s dross to create high culture music; Beethoven to Chopin Brahms to Bach none of them took the low culture road. Most of them at worst stole the scales from the Greeks and worked around with them.
Not that I want to indulge in a culture war, just wondering who ( other than Sousa ) the USA with its “mulligan stew” society can claim as a high culture composer fit to be named in the same ranks as the above listed bunch of old white guys from northern Europe.
Now fashion is a wonderous thing, but really — street thugs — haven’t you watched Operation Runway on bravo? Granted that Bravo is the non-hetero outlet for NBC, they haven’t quite reached the street thug stage just yet. Fashion died in Miami a few years ago.
CK, Sousa was a very sophisticated musician and composer. Also, no one is really sure what the ancient Greek music sounded like. There was an obsession with recreating it, but there is just not enough extant evidence to figure it out, unlike other art forms like sculpture and so forth. The “greek scales” you refer to were created in the middle ages.
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Shastakovich’s music, for example, was for the most part more reflective of Soviet socialist ideology than any sort of “high culture”. Not that he preferred that arrangement, but he had a family to protect.
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Elaine is spot on in every aspect of this important topic.
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Interestingly, Rameau’s theories, which are still the basis of what passes for “music theory” in today’s academia, were rejected by Bach.
And, the question is, who is blowing those winds?
Oh, and to answer the question regarding American composers, why not Duke Ellington?
GOOD GRIEF: much of American culture came from….hold onto your hats, BLACK SLAVES. Rock and Roll ultimately came via black slaves mixed in with Irish dispossessed people and a host of other aliens who came to the US and mixed it all up. This is true of everything.
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Scandinavian culture: HAHAHA. Irish, southern Russian, Byzantine, French Catholic, Mediterranean influences ABOUND. Big time. The Vikings, of course, roamed the planet and brought home not only loot and slaves but other cultures.
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The only ‘pure’ human culture was Australian. They had little outside influence from 200,000 BC till 1700 AD. Except for a small number of dugouts carrying dogs reaching the northern shores. Everyone else has a culture that is very mixed up via wars, trade and emigration.
It wasn’t purity or authenticity that was the topic, it was high culture as represented by: music, drama, fashion, literature, cuisine. No matter how hard we 60’s reprobates try, rockabilly, rock&roll, delta blues are not high culture, popular yes but there is a vast canyon of distinction between popular democratic masscult and discriminating high culture. Very little of American culture derives from pre-1864 minstrelry, nor from the admixture of irish potatoe thieves. Actually when one tries to find “high American Culture” one ends up debating the virtues of Marvel comics vs DC comics, or how much of the 70’s music was stolen from English music thieves who stole it from Chicago big music thieves. Calling rock and roll high culture is a debasement of culture; just more democratic reverse snobbery.
HAHAHA. What is ‘high culture’? HAHAHA. I am half Norman. High culture are things the ruling elites love. This is probably why I love opera, ballet, etc. Got that? And the creators of these goodies for the delight of the rulers are…all sorts of subject people. They give us the wonderful potpourri of goodies garnered from all over the planet earth, the more distant, the better.
The question regarding the cultural justification of art music has to do with whether the dog is wagging the tail, as it were, as in the Brahms example, or the tail wagging the dog, as in the post Wagner era in Europe.
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BTW, during the heyday in Vienna and Paris there was a thriving middle class that supported the music scene.
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Re: pre 1864 minstrelry: The African influence on art music wasn’t set to take off until after slaves were freed and began to gain literacy in greater numbers. Check out William Grant Still and the Harlem Renaissance, for example.
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Circumstances on the North American continent provided a unique atmosphere whereby the musical high art tradition could diversify by absorbing African cultural influences into the highly sophisticated and well known harmonic foundation of the European tradition. So we get Gershwin and Ellington and so forth. Some of Ellington’s music is most definitely art music. But that budding tradition was soon wrecked as well.
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Corporate rock has been a case of the tail wagging the dog from the beginning. The counterculture didn’t end up accomplishing real resistance, it undermined it.
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I could go into detail but we live in a sound byte world and I don’t want to bore people any more than necessary. But, as Neil Young put it, “There’s more to the picture than meets the eye”.
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But the evidence supports the conclusion that that true enriching art thrives on natural diversity and stagnates under artificially imposed systems.
“culture”. i am probably out of line here, but watching over the years i have started to feel that all the different, traditional cultures that worked for their people basically ended up destroyed once they were infected with white “civilization”. and the people with the “high culture” were invariably the most diabolical. at least the red necks have some sort of empathy and moral code. “progress”.
Actually, what you are seeing is the effects of a global empire. In this case, the triumph of the US after WWI and then even more, WWII. All ‘native’ cultures were changed via exposure to this empire just like the Roman Empire did the same or the Chinese empire. For example, what we think of as the Japanese culture was actually the Japanese absorbing several waves of Korean and then Chinese dominant cultures.
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About the history of rock music: it had several waves of influence. Remember Motown? I loved the Motown sound when I was very young. Catchy music. It was also very black music. Sprang out of the black church singing. Lilting, foot-tapping music predated the freeing of the slaves. When the US went around the world, we took bands of black musicians who entertained foreigners and were quite popular which is why BLACKFACE singing took off as the Irish pretended to be blacks and imitated their music which created a hot style of singing and rhythms. See where this is going?
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Another example: Mariachi music from Mexico. I loved that when I grew up because, when my parents traveled about Mexico on business, they took us along and we used the radio a lot. Well. Mariachi music has strong ties to Bohemian peasant music! This is because a surprising number of Bohemians came to Mexico after the Revolution and brought their instruments along and the melding of their music with Spanish music and native Indian cultural impulses created that catchy style of music.
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What we consider to be ‘native’ culture is just filled to the brim with this sort of complexity. True, modern technology is ‘flattening’ everything in its path. There is a lot of nervousness about ‘losing one’s culture’ which I agree, makes the human collective much more boring. But the minute the US empire loses its grip, we will see other cultural influences replacing our own. Like, China. Already, we can detect a great rise in Chinese cultural influence at work. A lot of people are barely aware of this. Ditto, Japan’s influence is now much bigger. But alas, they are killing their youth off and all cultural influences come via the young [who are more adaptive than the elderly] so the brimming energies of Indonesia, SE Asia and China will predominate.
I love the way lefties always ‘talk down’ to others, assuming they have the ‘high ground’. Good grief indeed, the lack of understanding when they get the bit in their teeth is astounding.
Evidence of the importation of alien populations into Western society are all around you. Who lives with whom? Who segregates themselves? Most of you don’t even know that the Jewish ghettos of Warsaw were in part self directed by the Rabbis themselves. Blacks hate whites or Hispanics moving into their neighborhood. Muslims hate it when Hindus get too close. Why am I looked as a criminal when I want to live with those who look, talk and act as I do? How much classical music does one hear in the modern ghettos? In today’s world, because we’ve fallen into the trap of believing the falsity of ‘everyone is equal’, we try to make demands on those who do not qualify, when they fail we lower the standards. We all suffer from lowered standards and lowered expectations. We have been living of the gifts our forefathers created, when out of serendipity or the blessing of God, when somehow power and goodness came together to establish the best human government ever created. We have used up all that wonderful inertia….we are living on the fumes of a high octane fuel which lefties, neo-cons, aliens and most academicians refuse to admit ever existed. Yes Elaine, lots of mistakes were made in the long past….but they were minuscule compared to where you multiculturalists, race deniers, culture deniers and egalitarians are going to take the human race. You somehow think you are ‘out of power’….I believe your kind are in total control at present….so why all the bitching….you are doing a great job of destroying many cultures and mixing the hell out of all the races…..after all…..we are all ‘one race’ according to modern anthropology, which won’t even grant that there are major differences between us, regardless of endless [mostly unpublicized] studies. If you really want to get into a controversial subject with many bright people this is one that is ‘untouchable’.
I am ready for the name calling and race baiting so have at it.
I should have added to the last post the point that, in my estimation the promoters of multiculturalism want to force the various peoples of the world to accept their version of multicult, through mandates, subsidies and other onerous legislative methods that interfere with the type of cultural spread of ideas that Elaine is speaking of. In other words, I don’t mind other cultures, I hate the name ‘multicultural’ because to me it is a big government, big business model they want to force on us for their own nefarious purposes. I think much of our disagreement is semantics and the fact that I believe there is an ‘End Game’ agenda that is hidden from us. As I said in an earlier post that somehow didn’t show up, multiculturalism, NAFTA, peak oil, global warming, war on terrorism, drugs, poverty etc., are all part of the manipulation of the masses for the sole purpose of extracting a certain amount of production and consumption out us ‘2 legged critters’ before we die. The best way to do that is to keep us in a ‘psychological corral’.
You better use a different word if you think ‘multiculturalism’ means the New World Order is going to destroy people. My point is the obvious one: all empires ARE by definition, multicultural. And the reason why the culture of all empires is so rich on every level is due to this multiculturalism. We call these periods, ‘Civilization’ and the barbarian interludes are called ‘The Dark Ages.’
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I do pray you understand what that means. Just because a number of people socially isolate themselves in ‘neighborhoods’ doesn’t stop the forces of multiculturalism since we all like to be ENTERTAINED and are BORED with the same old same old. This is why Europe’s barbarians who created the Dark Ages, when they invaded the Holy Land and began to interact heavily with Byzantia, culture took off like a rocket in Europe. Building styles, clothing, music, the art of warfare all began to change radically.
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This is why I regard this force as a good force, not evil. I wonder what scares you? Do you think your own version of a culture is so feeble, it can’t take the stress of interacting with other cultures? Think about it. If it has to do with your ethnic identity, just remember: all you have to do is TELL STORIES ABOUT YOUR PAST. I do this! These stories are treasures. .
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I used to play heavily in the Society for Creative Anachronisms and in that game, I played a variety of people one of which was a Christian woman who was a merchant who ran a mercenary force in the Middle East. It was quite amusing role to play.
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Don’t be afraid of losing your culture. Mine was ‘lost’ long ago, in the wreckage of WWI.
<blockquoteWhy am I looked as a criminal when I want to live with those who look, talk and act as I do?
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Well, maybe its because people generally don’t like being told where they can and can not live. 😉
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And, the basic back beat of rock ‘n’ roll is derived from Arabic rhythms. That goes in with the black church singing and many other things. It’s an interesting subject, but not relavant to what I’m saying.
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Did you know that John Lennon thought that “Beatlemania” was the stupidist thing in the world? When he said “the Beatles are bigger than Jesus” he was actually implying that there was a problem with that arrangement. That was just his opinion.
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Did you know that Elvis’ record company hated the fact that he insisted on recording gospel music even though those albums were very successful?
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I would bet that the folks that actually lived through WWI or Soviet communism regret the loss of the previous culture more than anyone that did not experience those things.
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So that’s what people are really afraid of. Chinese/Nazi style communism/fascism and/or another world war. And justifiably so.
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Heh, the topic came back around.
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So the moral of all this drole rambling is that law of unintended consequences is always there to bite us in the ass if we’re not careful. Hence the cliché: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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Personally, I prefer Shakespeare’s poetic version: Sriving to better, oft we mar what’s well. Helps it go down easier.
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It’s always easy to find the flaws in other peoples’ perceptions. Realizing the flaws in one’s own is a humbling experience. At least, it has been for me.
Elaine, Maybe you need to take the time to read some of the works of Carrol Quigley. His major book was taken off the market when the ‘boyz’ saw what he wrote, even though he was a supporter. Henry Mankow, is trying to bring some of this to light. See here:
” Indeed their representatives, the “Eastern Establishment” i.e. the Morgans and now the Rockefellers run the United States. (72) The principle mechanism is the Council on Foreign Relations.
According to Quigley, the ultimate goal is “nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled …by the central banks…acting in concert.” (324)
Quigley confirms that the bankers have usurped mankind’s collective instincts by financing the Socialist and Communist movements. Bankers love big government because the ultimate monopoly is the State. Through it, they take over their competition and control debt, resources, market demand and labor.
Speaking of the Communist takeover of the US government in the 1930’s and 1940’s, Quigley writes, “it must be understood that the power that these energetic left-wingers exercised was never their own power of Communist power but was ultimately the power of the international financial coterie.” (954)
In other words, millions of idealists committed to human brotherhood and equality were (and are) duped into advancing a totalitarian scheme to concentrate the world’s wealth and power into the hands of the superrich. More opportunistic Leftists, Communists, Feminists and Globalists prosper while piously pretending to serve humanity.
The Money Power controls the debate and encourages gridlock by backing all shades of the political spectrum and marginalizing anyone who shines the spotlight on them. (Ever wonder why the word “Rothschild” has never crossed Noam Chomsky’s lips? Or why the John Birch Society debunks the obvious fact that 9-11 was an “inside job?”) The media is controlled through direct ownership and advertising.
Quigley writes: “To Morgan all political parties were simply organizations to be used, and the firm always was careful to keep a foot in all camps. Morgan himself, Dwight Morrow and other partners were allied with the Republicans; Russell C. Lewffingwell was allied with the Democrats; Grayson Murphy was allied with the extreme Right; and Thomas W. Lamont was allied with the Left.” (945)
The Lamont family was “sponsors and financial angels to almost a score of extreme Left organizations including the Communist Party itself.” (945)
CONCLUSION
A small cabal of people who are not even citizens hold the financial purse strings of every nation.
This goes a long way to explaining “globalization” and the push to one-world government. It explains the assault on race, religion, nation and family. The bankers want a homogenous deracinated neutered world that offers no basis of resistance.
It explains why in a time of supposed security danger, the southern border of the US is practically porous. The bankers want to undermine America’s European character, which it perceives as a threat.
I refuse to be a tool to this enterprise and fight a very tough battle in my attempts to expose it. The mammoth influence of political correctness has become so ingrained into our language, culture and thought that it is considered offensive to even attempt to discuss these matters, you end up getting attacked from all sides, even by those who you thought would be supporters, and you Elaine, of all the people on this planet should be able to see how this thing is doing great damage to the thought processes of those who should know better. We are in the midst of pervasive ‘intellectual constipation’ Expose the damnable, nefarious ‘End Game’, don’t play dumb and ultimately support it. Truth seekers have to follow the trail…..even if it runs over their own toes.