Goldman Sachs AIG-ony Continues

AIG and Goldman Sachs (sack the city and loot and burn everything) are again in the news.  Unlike Ponzi schemes which have been rendered illegal, the games GS plays are quasi-legal meaning, they make it legal so they can do it or they keep it off the books, literally and metaphorically.  The main thing is, their ‘solutions’ to the riddle, ‘How can we get filthy rich?’ are negative ones as far as the rest of the economy is concerned.

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When Lehman Brothers collapsed and died suddenly, all the many credit default swaps and over the counter handshake deals and the insurance protecting ‘investments’ suddenly ground into action and immediately created an immense financial black hole.  Not one of the players in this goofy game had anything approaching the capital requirements to settle ANY of the cross-party/counter-party deals they cooked up.  So the entire rigged game of international money creation out of thin air collapsed very quickly.

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Of course, the system buckled when the Japanese carry trade abruptly ended in August, 2007.  But the trigger of the Big Meltdown was Lehman going under.  Goldman Sachs executives lied, back then, about their exposure in this collapse and as we see in today’s news, this lie was enabled by Geithner and his gang of goons.  Geithner should be charged with some sort of crime for his participation in this ugly rip-off.

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Revealed: See Who Was Paid Off In The AIG Bailout

A key question at the heart of the controversial bailout of AIG is just how much money the government lost. The Federal Reserve and Treasury Department have worked to keep that number secret and to conceal who was on the winning end.

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We were very aware, who were the ‘winners’ in the Fall of 2008.  This is why the big bail out was so immensely unpopular.  Of course, the criminals involved in this scheme wanted to keep it all secret just like any crooks want secrecy!  The fact that both Bernanke and Geithner colluded is grounds to arrest both of them.  Instead, Obama stupidly endorsed Bernanke even as 30 Senators refused to vote for him (usually, this vote is unanimous).

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An unredacted document obtained by the Huffington Post list the damage in detail. Goldman Sachs alone, for instance, got $14 billion in government money for assets worth $6 billion at the time — a de facto $8 billion subsidy, courtesy of taxpayers.

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The list was produced as part of a congressional investigation led by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee into the federal bailout of AIG.

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And this is due to the Democrats, not the Republicans.  The GOP loves to pretend they are all about fiscal soundness.  They are deaf when it comes to money.

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The Federal Reserve Bank of New York, then led by now-Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, purchased a slew of souring assets from the world’s biggest banks for 100 cents on the dollar in November and December 2008. A scathing report by a government watchdog held Geithner responsible for the overpayments.

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The New York Fed initially pressured AIG to keep the list hidden from investors, regulators and the public. When it was eventually filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the SEC allowed the Fed and AIG to keep the details secret. A heavily-redacted version was made public last March.

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See what public anger can do?  Thanks to everyone being very angry for a very long time, details of this criminal action are now leaking into the public.  I hope our anger grows!  Being angry about this is a good thing.  It is useful.  It is necessary.  If only we could become angry about the trade deficit!  Then we might actually make some progress, fixing the things killing our sovereignty.

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New AIG Documents Reveal Goldman Was Far More Involved In AIG Collapse Than You Suspected

Matthew Goldstein, the Reuters reporter who has been all over the AIG story, explains:.

It’s been known for months that Goldman Sachs and Societe Generale were the two banks who recieved the most money in the deal because they had insured the most CDOs with AIG. But the new information enables traders, investors and the general public to see just which deals the banks had purchased insurance on.

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AIG Bailout Saved Goldman From Major Loss « naked capitalism is from September 27, 2008 and it shows that many of us were quite aware that GS was gaming the system even as they denied being deeply involved.

. The new information also reveals that of the 178 tranches of CDOs that AIG insured, some 14% were on deals issued after 2005. That’s critical because in December 2007, former AIG Financial Products head Joseph Cassano had said AIG largely got out of the CDS business by the end of 2005.

.This guy lies more often during the day than when he lies down at night.  This guy is always in the prone position when it comes to the Truth.  Arrest him.

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The newly disclosed information also reveals that Goldman not only bought a lot of CDS from AIG to protect itself; the Wall Street firm also originated a good number of the CDOs that were in SocGen’s portfolio. Some of the Goldman deals in SocGen’s portfolio that AIG had insured includes CDOs with names like Adirondack 2005, Putnam Structured Product CDO 2002 and Davis Square Funding IV.

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Goldman Sachs always was playing both sides of the tennis court as well as talking out of both sides of their mouths and dealing from the bottom of the deck and this means they are con men and card sharks, not honest bankers.  Seriously, they are a blight on the business and should be arrested just to fix the image of banking for banking is all about TRUST and you certainly can’t trust these crooks.

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Madoff was a con man.  He is now in prison.  I say, put all of these guys in the same prison, that is, Gitmo.  The petty Taliban/al Qaeda (more about that later….Bin Laden is embracing global warming! HAHAHA) rebels have done barely any harm to the world compared to Goldman Sachs executives and their buddies.  So let’s waterboard them and sleep deprive them and seize their overseas bank accounts.

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Goldman Sachs Viewed as Favored by Regulators, Fed E-mail Says – BusinessWeek

The public perception was a reason to reject a December 2008 media request for the names of securities purchased from banks during AIG’s rescue, according to the e-mail released yesterday. If the names of the assets were released, the banks, including Goldman Sachs, would be identified as beneficiaries, New York Fed employee Danielle Vicente wrote in the Dec. 4, 2008, e-mail to Fed counsel James Hennessy.

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The New York Fed has said that releasing the names of banks that were paid to tear up $62.1 billion in AIG guarantees could hurt the insurer and its counterparties. The internal e-mail, obtained this month by a House oversight committee, indicates Vicente was also concerned that the AIG rescue would be viewed unfavorably by taxpayers and lawmakers if it was known that Goldman Sachs and non-U.S. banks received funds.

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Duh, of course it would be viewed negatively. Usually, when we see a mugger slash a little old lady and steal her purse, we get mad.  If we see a bank robber running off with the loot, we call the cops.  If we see a Goldman Sachs executive, we get a deep urge to tackle them and handcuff them.  Crooks are crooks.  And for our damn government to collude with crooks….a lot of people should go to prison.

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Subpoenaed Documents Show Goldman Sachs Offered to ‘Tear Up’ AIG Derivatives Contracts at ‘Right Price’ Before NY Fed Took Over Negotiations « Phil’s Favorites – By Ilene

AIG has said they were negotiating “tear-ups” with counterparties at 50 cents on the dollar before the NY Fed told them to ’stand down’ in negotiations with counterparties. ‘Stand down’ was the exact language from emails unearthed last week by Hugh Son of Bloomberg.

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Goldman openly admits that they were willing to tear up contracts with AIG for the ‘right price,’ as you will see below.

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But Goldman CEO Lloyd Blankfein told Angelides and the FCIC panel last week that they were ‘never asked’ by the the New York Fed negotiators, working on behalf of AIG, to accept any haircut, or less than 100 cents on the dollar.

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So, it turns out, AIG and Goldman Sachs were going to do a deal with GS being hit with 50% losses. And then out of the blue comes Geithner, a GS executive infesting the privately owned Federal Reserve and he says, ‘No mas!  I will pay up ALL losses…’ and then he got in charge of the Treasury and working along the exact same lines as Goldman Sachs executive, Mr. Paulson, he saved his organization at our expense.  Having TWO Goldman Sachs, one a GOP guy and the other a big Democratic dude, running all the systems during this time meant GS was saved….at the expense of destroying not only Obama’s impending Presidency but the entire United States.

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Which to my mind, is treason.  For the money to do this rescue operation had to be capitalized and the entity who did this was China!  A bad deal, all around.  This isn’t the only GS  news today:

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No IPOs Means No Jobs – Forbes.com

Changes in the equity market structure have also disadvantaged retail investors who could invest in these new IPOs. These changes, which according to Weild are hurting investors but making the markets better for traders, include the proliferation of high frequency trading and dark pools. “There’s no place for the small investor and IPOs to go,” Kaufman says.

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Weild and Kim suggest in their report that there be an alternative public market for investors that would have a fixed spread and commission structure. The two also advocate for allowing companies to defer some of the costs of accessing private capital as a precursor to going public.

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Using the money gained illicitly by this rescue engineered by these three treasonous Goldman Sachs executives, they created a bizarre new way of ‘trading’ on the stock market that basically ‘churns’ stocks tremendously fast while doing NOTHING USEFUL AT ALL.  But this makes a tiny fraction of money each cycle per churned item and if you churn a billion items nonstop, the money accumulates by the many billions!

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This utterly ridiculous, dark pool, unregulated, FRAUDULENT trading that pretends to be ‘trading’ while being nothing at all….is destroying the basic premise for even having a stock market which is to offer IPOs and then trade them based on how a company is performing.  Instead of being a platform for launching new businesses and rewarding existing ones, the stock market is rapidly turning into a self-replicating computer game that actively drives  companies into bankruptcy instead of giving them more money to expand.

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Goldman Tops JPMorgan as Best Broker as Speed Shakes Up Trading – Bloomberg.com

Brokerages and trading firms, battling for the fastest access to capital markets, buy or lease space at this Equinix Inc. center and others to place their machines as close as possible to stock exchange computers. The practice, known as co- location, is one way firms are vying to win fractions of a second — the difference between getting a trade and missing it.

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Speed is shaking up the brokerage industry — and drawing scrutiny from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, Bloomberg Markets magazine reported in its March issue, in which it ranked brokers worldwide.

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On Jan. 13, the SEC took a first step toward reviewing the effect of trading strategies in which computers may buy or sell shares as many as 1,000 times a second.

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Way back, long ago, I got in a huge battle with Atlantic bank because they made an accounting error and then bounced the same several checks multiple times in less than 48 hours during which (this is before computer access) I was left blissfully unaware that they misassigned one of my checks. Only when my money I deposited later, vanished, did I learn what was going on.

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A fabulous way to make money is to treat a ‘deal’ as if it is a bouncing ball.  The more you pound it, the faster it yields costs which you get to charge and which are due entirely to your own game, not something useful happening (like scoring a goal).  This ‘dribble’ philosophy is at the very basis of our financial collapse and is the main reason bankers are skimming not 4-6% of our GDP but 20% of it!  Reforming the systems so the bankers can’t make lots of money is required.  We can’t let them gain profits this way because it destroys all other economic systems.  Plus, it is totally useless in the real world.

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On the other hand, a dead artist or writer is worth a lot more than a living one.  This is because they can no longer produce anything.  Ergo: the value rises.  So it is with J.D. Salinger.  Since all college kids must read him, his book sells due to this eternal captive audience.  So it looks valuable.

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J.D. Salinger passes away at the age of 91 | Raw Story

Although he only had a handful of books published in his lifetime, his decision to keep out of public and to keep his writing private has kept him in the limelight for decades. Numerous journalists have written stories about camping out at Salinger’s in hopes of getting an exclusive. Reports through the years indicate that Salinger might have a backlog of yet-to-be-published work which may now possibly soon see the light…

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…Salinger’s death is likely to reignite speculation over whether he may have produced valuable works. He hinted at this in a tantalising interview with the Boston Sunday Globe in 1980, where he said: “I love to write, and I assure you I write regularly. But I write for myself and I want to be left absolutely alone to do it.” The market for any posthumous Salinger writings would likely be highly lucrative.

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To understand the frenzy over this lucre, all we a have to do is check up with Mark Twain, the man who predicted everything and understood everything:

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Is He Dead? : Mark Twain

Richly intermingling elements of burlesque, farce, and social satire with a wry look at the world market in art, Is He Dead? centers on a group of poor artists in Barbizon, France, who stage the death of a friend to drive up the price of his paintings. In order to make this scheme succeed, the artists hatch some hilarious plots involving cross-dressing, a full-scale fake funeral, lovers’ deceptions, and much more.

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And one last thing: since we are not all J.D. Salinger and thus, can’t be more valuable dead, we have to look at the results of living in a gnome world where bankers get richer and richer and my town dies totally and we all get poorer and poorer:

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The Big Question: Why has the equality gap widened even through the years of plenty? – Home News, UK – The Independent

The new findings revealed that the household wealth of the top 10 per cent of the population is £853,000 and above – 100 times higher than the wealth of the poorest 10 per cent, which is £8,800 or below.

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When the highest-paid workers, such as bankers and chief executives, are put into the equation, the division in wealth is even more stark, with individuals in the top 1 per cent of the population each possessing total household wealth of £2.6m or more.

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Politically, a huge gap between rich and poor is bad for democracy, bad for society and bad for the economy.  Britain is going off the same economic cliff, slightly ahead of us, that we are going off.  And so we must bid everyone adieu as we plunge over the Niagara Falls….

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28 Comments

Filed under .money matters

28 responses to “Goldman Sachs AIG-ony Continues

  1. PLovering

    @Elaine, “Britain is going off the same economic cliff, slightly ahead of us … ”

    Fortunately, Britain’s Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, has answers to UK health problems:

    http://tinyurl.com/yaw7bjy

  2. DM

    @PLovering. And your point is … ?

  3. larry, dfh

    AIG was raided from within. The FP division, in London, set up these outrageous policies, with no backing other than fake debt, all out of sight from headquarters (some of whom were probably in on the raid, as well). These folks are modern day Buckaneers, and should meet the historical fate of their predecessors.
    Geithner is surely a criminal. His admission to ‘misfiling’ his taxes was actually fraud. He submitted, and received re-embursements which he claimed he never got. That’s fraud, plan and simple.
    And speaking of criminals, did you hear tony blair whining about how he made the right decision? They have ‘three strikes’ laws in places under the guise that some people are not reformable; blair surely falls into this category.

  4. emsnews

    Arrest Blair, arrest Bush and arrest Cheney. Do NOT arrest bin Laden: he is anti-global warming and wants the CO2 derivatives market to flourish. 🙂

  5. PLovering

    First, GOP hard-core, bullshit lizards wanted a seat at the Tea Party Patriots head table, but they came away empty.

    Next, the greedy GOP Lizards put together TeaPartyNation, which is a for-profit, rip off con of the first water.

    Tea Party Patriots are 7 million members.

    Tea Party Lizards are near bankrupt already.

  6. DM

    OT (an OT thread would be nice ..)

    China protests US arms sales, warns of ‘serious’ impact.

    Just musing: if these weapons are ultimately ever used to kill people, who will they be pointed at?

  7. flipspiceland

    “:…… compared to Goldman Sachs executives and their buddies. So let’s waterboard them and sleep deprive them and seize their overseas bank accounts.”

    The way you choose to treat this satanic scum is considerably too mild.

    Our ability (it seems) to punish, has been diminished, lost in our culture of liberality. We need to move back to our behavior in the cave. As some of our most aggressive brothers in finance have so well demonstrated, we haven’t moved all that far from the days of using clubs, jawbones, and flint to slay our enemies. And make no mistake: Lord Blankfein, geithner,orszag,
    bernanke, summers, paulson, greenspan, rubin, friedman,fuld, frank, thain, dodd, mozillo, o’neal, bush, theBamster are all hostile cave men, bent on invasion, rape and murder to take by finesse what they can’t by force, operating beyond the law, the balance of justice, morality and ethics and common decency. All for what? Bragging rights.

    Some bitty torture, sleep deprivation (if by all accounts is an affliction Goldman Sucks’ employees already suffer from) and seizure of their gains is hardly commensurate with the devastation these certified sociopaths have caused, the wrecked countries, the impoverished human lives, the devastated industries, and waste laid to worthwhile charities, educational institutions and fatal blows they have struck to human rights.

    It’s as if we cannot, do not, will not willingly understand the broad, vast, deep extent of their actions and are unequipped to truly penalize them in a manner that would both discourage others from EVER attempting it again, or to punish them as a mighty vengeance for their past and present arrogance, greed, and in-our-face ripoffs.

    We need more, far more vigor in our rage and an athletic enthusiasm to mete out our
    revenge with extreme prejudice.

  8. Dibbles

    Geithner is such a disgusting little mole. I watched him testify the other day. A few minutes was all I could stomach. He tips his head down and his beady little eyes dart from side to side as he speaks, with no direct contact with anyone. Just like a mole, he is repelled by sunlight.

  9. Dibbles

    Sometimes I think Osama, Cheney, Bush, the banksters, and the whole rotten lot of these neoCon cretins are sitting around the pool at some Mediterranean get away laughing there asses off at what they got away with. And are still getting away with. What a global racket Wall Street has become.

    The government seems too terrified from threats of financial armageddon to do much of substance. And, of course, we don’t want to enlarge evil government by hiring more investigators and prosecutors. So let’s just scream and holler into our pillows. At least we’ll feel better.

  10. Dibbles

    Hell, the whole darn federal government is starting to look like a giant slush fund. And these parasites won’t stop there. They won’t be happy until they’ve bled state, county, and city coffers dry too.

  11. Dibbles

    “a self-replicating computer game that actively drives companies into bankruptcy instead of giving them more money to expand.”

    Yes, that’s been my thoughts too. And, of course those bankrupted companies will be picked up for pennies on the dollar.

  12. Dibbles

    Why doesn’t Wall Street set-up shop in Las Vegas? It would help the destroyed housing market there. And Las Vegas doesn’t pretend to be anything other than a gambling mecca.

    Granny and gramps know they are gambling. They don’t consider it retirement investing.

    Even the slot machines are computerized now. Wouldn’t that be a win-win?

  13. Dibbles

    Mark Twain. The name we gave our family dog when I was a child (out of love). I hope Samuel Clemen’s writings are not so unpolitically correct that they’ve been deleted from public education reading lists.

    “Is He Dead?” reminds me of an old movie “The Mouse That Roared.” I think Key West used the entertaining concept from the move to survive. When I visited there the first time in ’82, Key West was quaint and – like so much of the south at that time – resembling near third world living conditions. They declared war on the US Government, seceded, and renamed themselves the Conch Republic. They immediately surrendered and consequently received federal redevelopment funds (tax-payer money).

    Key West went on to become a thriving, beautiful and unique tourist destination. The tax revenue generated paid back federal dollars (our money) many, many times over.

    Maybe Berlin, NY can use the same strategy to survive and thrive. It sounds like you and your neighbors just need to figure out what the heck you want Berlin to be. Maybe some of it’s old industry can be revived on a small scale to reinforce redevelopment and tourism. Just a thought…

  14. Dibbles

    “I think Key West used the entertaining concept from the move to survive.”

    should be “movie to survive.”

    Sorry….

  15. Colin

    “Way back, long ago, I got in a huge battle with Atlantic bank because they made an accounting error and then bounced the same several checks multiple times…”

    Who hasn’t experince this. They onec charged me thirty pounds over drawn fee for withdrawing money from an accout it just debited. Apparently banks wait untill the end of the working day to credit your account but debit your account in real time: so if you have zero in your account then deposit 1000 dollars and withdraw ten on the same day they hold the deposit to the end of the day and charge you for being overdrawn.

    Isn’t it absolutely amazing that the banks can make millions of errors that over charge their customers every hour of every day, but never once in human history has anyone ever had the bank make a mistake in the customers favour!

  16. Dibbles

    Elaine,
    An interesting observation of mine is that donor states like New York – mostly blue and “liberal” – help pay for welfare states – mostly red and antibellum or bluedog conservative.

    The most recent numbers I’ve seen, show that California gets .78 back in federal dollars for every $1.00 they send to D.C.
    New York gets .79 back.
    My own state gets .88 back.

    Mississippi on the other hand gets $2.02.
    Alaska gets $1.84. Louisiana gets $1.78.

    The vast majority of the red states get back more federal dollars than they pay in. That would be fine with me if I and my donor state’s constituency were not constantly vilified and demonized by the right-wing screech monkeys. Especially at a time when states are being drained of their operating budgets and union government employees (of which I’m not) are scapegoated.

    As conservatives demonize California for it’s liberals, gays, unions, and deficits, those same raging eunichs’ constituencies get some of California’s money in federal dollar redistribution of wealth. No wonder conservatives don’t want fair representation for blue states. Those are good yearly returns on a buck.

    Maybe the good people of Berlin, NY could find a way to keep more of their tax dollars within NY state, if not within your own community. Maybe a way to come up with some redevelopment funds like Key West?

    (Don’t hesitate to let me know if I’m doing too much “sharing” on your blog.)

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    ELAINE: Frequent commentary is OK so long as one doesn’t do it solely to attack me nonstop on off topic matters that are totally annoying. Then I get to play goddess and zap the post.

    Generally, I let people do whatever they want. When one guy began harassing me via telephone late at night when I was in bed…that was a big no-no. Otherwise, I am easy going (when not too irritated, of course. Heh.)

    About Key West: very pro-gay. Love the place. My town: very anti-gay. Fatal for tourists, of course. Anti-hippie which means, this hatred covers all bases. Ergo: no tourists.

  17. Dibbles

    Colin,

    It’s amazing that banks can lend money they don’t have adequate reserve for. Then terrorizing the US congress into loaning them the reserves without having to loan back out, which is their function.

    HankyP and the Bush gang were masterful at creating crises to stampede Americans and their representatives into making hasty decisions without having time to find facts.

  18. Dibbles

    Again to Colin,

    As a kid I used to play Monopoly. Sometimes I’d draw a card that said “Bank error in your favor. Receive $50.”

    Does that count?

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    ELAINE: I used to snort with derision when getting that card. ‘I wish!’

  19. Z

    Elaine,

    Regarding:

    “And then out of the blue comes Geithner, a GS executive infesting the privately owned Federal Reserve and he says, ‘No mas! I will pay up ALL losses…’ and then he got in charge of the Treasury and working along the exact same lines as Goldman Sachs executive, Mr. Paulson, he saved his organization at our expense. Having TWO Goldman Sachs, one a GOP guy and the other a big Democratic dude, running all the systems during this time meant GS was saved….at the expense of destroying not only Obama’s impending Presidency but the entire United States.”

    While geithner is effectively a goldman faSachist employee, I don’t think he ever was officially employed by them. The reason that I know this … or, more accurately, am pretty sure … is that I had thought that geithner had been employed by goldman sachs at one point myself, but when I later looked into it, I was never able to find any confirmation of it. The reason that I got it mixed up in my head … besides the dizzying whirling of people to and fro the treasury and goldman sachs … was that he is a rubin-ite, but his contacts with robber rubin do not come from goldman sachs, but as an assistant to him at the treasury. And possibly also from working for kissinger associates.

    geithner never actually worked ON wall street, as far as I know … instead he worked FOR wall street as a member of the federal government and federal reserve.

    As almost all rubin-ites, geithner is jewish.

    Z

  20. flipspiceland

    Two things:

    1) the equation is meaningless

    2) The money is redistributed based on the House and Senate seniority on Financial Committees and the deals they make with one another. That is a pretty lousy way to divvy up the confiscated money.

    Reason why it’s meaningless:

    Then the printing presses (or Quantitative Easing, as they call it because there is no actual cash printed, just some keystrokes on Ben’s laptop at a Bilderberger, Pilgrims Society, or Davos conference) kick in whereever they are needed to further distort
    the true numbers.

    Likely Californica will get $2.00 for every $1.00 they send to D.C. More than making up for the difference, just as they now get a huge portion of defense contracts and private money coming in from out of state.

    It’s too simple an equation and does not account for what is and is going to be the largest fake bu spendable money creating, (counterfeiting really) scheme in the history of the world.

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    ELAINE: You are somewhat correct. The DEBT DUE is misallocated. We go deep into debt to China and the money we borrow goes mostly to the southern states. This makes it much, much, much nastier than merely leeching off of the North and California.

  21. Z

    Some of China’s browbeating us probably is becoz of us browbeating them.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/world/asia/30diplo.html

    Z

  22. PLovering

    @Gus, “China leads in Race for
    Clean Energy Technology”

    Dragons 1
    Lizards 0

  23. DM

    Another OT – sorry – but I thought Elaine might be intereted in this UK news story with some amzing pictures of China new high-speed rail system.

    Personally, I still like AmTrack – but this is quite a contrast.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1238496/Unveiled-Chinas-245mph-train-service-worlds-fastest–completed-just-FOUR-years.html

  24. Gus

    @Plov

    The Dragon Eats Lizards 🙂
    ——————————————-
    Elaine:
    I, Virus- or why you is only half human

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527451.200-i-virus-why-youre-only-half-human.html

    ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ

    ELAINE: The reason we are so vulnerable to the Viral Empire is due to the very ancient battle between single celled organisms and viruses about a billion or so years ago. Since then, the evolution of all living things has been controlled by or exploited by viruses who moved from outside of living things to inside living things. In turn, it also made many life forms possible.

  25. if

    Fall of the Republic HQ full length version:

  26. emsnews

    Plovering, I warned you in the past to not peddle dangerous and stupid nostrums that turn your skin grey at my blog. Take it elsewhere.

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