LIVE! New Sandy Hook/Newtown Information Released – YouTube: the fake news operations run by our rulers is attacking Alex Jones for his fake news about the horrific mass murder of little children at Sandy Hook several years ago. The right has gone crazy about this event just like the left has decided we should destroy civilization in order to stop the weather from ever changing. Humans have this amazing ability to think delusionally using logic that is at its base, illogical.
Why humans are so bad at thinking about climate change – YouTube is a video talking about how we are all going to roast to death. The image illustrating this is a picture which is very common, of some facility putting out…water vapor!
I see this in all the ‘global warming’ pictures which claim that modern systems are evil. It is constant. This lunacy of illustrating the evil of burning coal by using pictures of water vapor, usually at sunrise, is done deliberately to fool people into being fearful of something totally different.
This sort of dishonesty isn’t accidental, it is deliberate. The people doing this know they are wrong to do this yet they do it over and over again. The comments to the above video has all the commentators screaming about…grazing animals will destroy the planet.
Yes, there are idiots who really believe this. If only we get rid of all cattle, we will be happy and safe. The right wing draconian solutions and the left wing draconian solutions are opposite each other and at the same time, the thinking is identical.
Both want us to do very stupid things in order to gain some sort of power. The gun issue: the right wants more guns and the left wants populations disarmed so they can be dictators and steal everything. The right wants guns to kill the leftists.
Instead of discussing why we are sliding into a confrontation between the left and the right, people get to talk about crazy theories like the ‘bombs in the building’ junk about 9/11, for example. The artful, dark arts of the ruling elites is swept away by juvenile theories based on the barest shreds of ‘evidence’ keeps the ruling elites in power.
Why? Well, if one is required to believe in stupid conspiracy stories, one becomes weaker and more vulnerable to manipulation. Alex Jones scares the elites because he used to talk about the Bilderberg gang but I noticed over the years, he ceased mentioning this conspiracy that really does run the world, and focuses on stupid conspiracies that don’t exist like the bombs in the building fantasy.
The elites love this. They desperately need the left and right fake stories and they love to make fun of the right wing and exploit the irrational fears of the left wing to gain power for themselves. This game of pitching the left and right into outright warfare keeps the Bilderberg gang in power.
But only so long as the leftist crazies are too small to endanger the elites. The elites love middle of the road liberals. They have this deal going: we will protect your beloved beliefs and civil rights but only if you let us run wild in your economy and destroy all systems so we can exploit it and be super duper rich and of course, you also have to have no borders stop this exploitation.
So, we can have sex rights and freedoms, for example, but only if we also let the super rich suck the economy dry and enslave workers. This is why the gulf between far right and far left is strengthening.
We see this in Europe, for example. ‘Hope of EU’? European elites flock to praise Macron, some call for Le Pen’s defeat — RT News as the Bilderberg gang scrambles to stop the right from tearing down the systems of no borders. But people demanding borders are rising in number as alarm grows over job destruction and crime.
Workers in France should wake up. The Real Rulers are freaking out that an outsider is going to pull them all out of power. The mainstream news virtually never mentions the Bilderberg rulers. This is a super-duper topic one is not allowed any information about it or the people who created and run it.
François Asselineau, candidate of the Republican People’s Union, lashed out at Macron, calling him “a puppet of the financial oligarchy,” while addressing his supporters on Sunday night. He was of a similar unfavorable opinion about Marine Le Pen, saying, “It is the Le Pen family that keeps the system in place.” The chairman of the Christian Democratic Party, Jean-Frédéric Poisson, also refused to endorse either of the candidates, calling both “disaster scenarios” on Twitter.
The right is fractured and so is the left:
Meanwhile, French authorities and members of the ruling Socialist party expressed their support for Macron, a former socialist. Macron stepped down from the post of Economy Minister under François Hollande’s government to join a bid in the elections as an independent candidate.
He hasn’t been a ‘socialist’ for quite a while, he is a Bilderberg gangster.
Hollande called Macron to congratulate him on qualifying for the second round, Reuters reported, citing the Elysees Palace.
French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault called to mobilize and vote for Macron in round two of the election.
A call to “block the extreme right and vote for Macron” was joined by Anne Hidalgo, the mayor of Paris, where, according to preliminary results, Le Pen suffered a heavy defeat, gathering just under 5 percent of vote.
Yes, Paris, like NYC and London, is being taken over by aliens who are not ‘echt French’ and this process of driving out citizens and replacing them in the big cities continues. The right totally dominates the countryside while the left’s sole power base is in a handful of cities which have high crime, riots and harbors terrorists.
A German MP and Angela Merkel’s chief of staff, Peter Altmaier, stated that the result shows that “France and Europe can jointly win!”
German government spokesman Steffen Seibert also tweeted his support for Macron’s pro-EU and social market economy platform, wishing him “All the best for the next 2 weeks.”
Of course, the German communists love to have France run by the Bilderberg gang, this operation to keep borders open is vital to Germany who is an export power like Japan, for example.
Except for one thing: Japan is run by right wing nationalists who keep out foreigners and has one way trade situations so they can enrich themselves while their own people live increasingly terrible, poverty stricken lives.
Every election now terrifies the ruling elites. The one saving grace they have is, they are supported in this venture by rightwing nationalists who fall for stupid conspiracy theories. The conspiracy theories of the left are not mocked but embraced by the Real Rulers so that the left doesn’t attack them (Hillary being a fine example of this stupidity) and they do not control the right wing except in Japan, so they use the right wing as the ‘whipping boy’.
It never ceases to amaze me how people fall for obvious scams. And how this destroys their brains. We have teetered on the edge of WWIII all my long life and here we are, seeing things being stirred up again by our Real Rulers in order to keep us terrified and poor, screams for WWIII were deafening during the election and instead of stopping, was doubled when Trump won.
They moved heaven and earth to restart the Cold War only making it as hot as possible by moving troops and weapons closer to Moscow and Beijing. Both are pissed as hell and will and are retaliating.
The leftists in Europe and the US are screaming that Russia is a communist country which is insane while demanding…semi-communism in Europe and America! Whoa!!!! Wait! This is a total contradiction of who they are!
Every leftist in Europe and the US is convinced that communist Russia is going to destroy them. Ahem…in every country, the right wing wants to be friends with Russia! HAHAHA. This does have its amusing aspects. And it is also unbelievably stupid. How can so many people be so fooled?
Bricmont, who says he is no supporter of the “divisive” Le Pen that may be “obsessed with Islam” at the same time laments the amount of demonization and Nazi-labeling that he says is being used in order to sway voters in favor of Macron. Many French people are casting their votes for Macron “in order to block [Marine] Le Pen,” Bricmont believes.
“Macron hasn’t made any promise of anything… His meetings are relatively empty. He is a complete product of the media,” argues Bricmont, who is pessimistic about the candidate winning as he brands him a potential “disaster for France.”
This was very true for Hillary. The cities and only the cities voted for her while most held their noses that is, black voters didn’t like her at all but wanted to keep the Federal funds flowing. Macron has microscopic love, the people voting for him want to keep the welfare money flowing and hate Le Pen who threatens to change things.
I remember Obama running on ‘change we can believe in’ and then did his utmost to change nothing except one item: increase the power of the President to rule via fiat. Now, that power is in the hands of an outsider and this is why the left wants to murder Trump as soon as possible but hesitate because this would bring into power the far right wing!
“These are people in the establishment whose fortunes, whose lives, whose position in the world is based upon the existence of the EU,” Flanagan said of those European politicians who are being especially vocal in their opposition to Le Pen as the potential French head of state.
These people in the establishment are…the Bilderberg gang. They created the EU and they will move heaven and earth to keep it rolling. Their scheme to let in millions of illegal aliens to keep themselves in power is going to backfire in the end because these millions of illegal aliens want real change, to turn Europe into the cesspools from whence they came.
“They like those positions, they like being in charge, they like being the ones calling the shots and they don’t like this populist movement, people that might be interested in running their own lives,” he said, adding that what the establishment dread the most is the overhaul of the existing bureaucratic order.
Yes, the status quo is great for them. Exploiting the human ability to think irrationally, they keep in power. But they, themselves, are totally irrational. Their screwy tactics to maintain power so they can loot every system is being propped up by millions of angry Muslim males who also want to annihilate these clowns.
“This is dangerous to them and the positions they like to be in, so they screw on the warmest smile they can, they brandish their credentials and they endorse on of their own to continue the status quo which is to lord over the people there,” Flanagan said, arguing that despite the odds similarly being against Le Pen, she is capable of a breakthrough in the second round, citing the examples of last year’s Brexit vote and the US election.
Le Pen has to avoid the trap of endorsing belief systems that are insane. Alex Jones doubles down on crazy beliefs just as the left doubles down by praising obvious monsters like Mao or the Russian communists.
Once upon a time, securing the borders was a mainstream issue, not fringe. Thanks to years and years of propaganda by the rich, we are stuck in this system of open borders being defended by the left yet all leftist countries in the past had CLOSED borders! Utterly and totally closed, no less.
Since we are surrounded by fake news that is pure propaganda and because the alternative is also crazy, people feel lost. There is one guide in this insanity: one has to look at ‘what happens next’ and thus, discern what is real and what isn’t real.
WWIII is very real. Terribly real. Global warming isn’t real. Or rather, the climate is always swinging from hot to cold for the last three million years so it does warm but much longer stretches are Ice Ages. Both Ice Ages and WWIII will kill most humans. And this, we should fear above all things.
And this is where the lunatic fringes are pushing us: into another Ice Age and into WWIII.
Culture of Life News 
Yes, unfortunately, all the faces of the opposition believe in insane theories.
I like reading and watching Jay Dyer’s commentaries. But even he is wrapped up in weird conspiracies at times.
I don’t know why the “bombs in the buildings thing” persists. Especially when there are eyewitnesses present and watching via television (a mass live sacrifice win for the elites) that saw what actually happened.
I was in those buildings. They were HOLLOW. You could here the wind whipping around them even on a calm day. At times you could feel the building sway! There were NO internal support structures except for a flimsy elevator shaft. The rest of the support came from the honeycomb outside structure. The planes took out the honeycomb support structure and the heat weakened everything around it. The unsupported interior pancaked due to no internal columns. Heck, the terrorists tried to do the same thing by the failed plot to bomb the foundation a few years earlier.
However in all this conspiracy nonsense, absolutely no one asks why the bombers were allowed to train in the CIA backyard.
ΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: It is much worse: they trained next to JUPITER ISLAND which is a Bush-run CIA retirement/vacation nest!!!!
Also no world event is too old for a conspiracy.
The latest one I’ve learned is that the Titanic was bombed in order to assassinate the 3 big financiers on board (Astor, Strauss and Guggenheim) because they were against the Federal Reserve. Oh and JP Morgan did it because he practically owned the White Star Line. Supposedly 2nd Officer Lightoller was in on it, because you know, swimming around the frozen ocean during a cold spring night was something he had to experience.
Wow.
Melponeme_k and Elaine,
You are both delusional, and don’t understand logic in the least, and although Elaine has build a shack in the hills and renovated the interiors of a few brownstone building, she is not a structural engineer, nor very good a math.
The Crummy Buildings Conspiracy Theory doesn’t account for Building 7 collapsing at free-fall speed. What part of “Not Possible” is so difficult to understand?
ΩΩΩ
ELAINE: Ever see a volcanic eruption? Most buildings collapse due to heavy thick dust! The WTC turned to dust and blanketed everything and the surrounding buildings were not so strong, either! It is much cheaper to build these steel and mostly GLASS towers, all of which are unable to survive a volcanic style event like 9/11.
And I know a LOT about structural integrity and watched them build all these buildings including being allowed to attend the demolition of towers, too.
So Elaine,
What about your fake news that the Sun is going to go all dark and cold? When did that happen?
ΩΩΩ
ELAINE: The sun is elderly. Watch out. My grandfather said, ‘You have 8 minutes to learn the sun is black.’
And as for Building 7, was Barry Jennings lying when he said he heard deafening explosions in the lobby of his building? He was the building engieer, and the last one to get out. And I’m pretty sure he knew the difference between an explosion and a firecracker.
ΩΩΩ
ELAINE: Excuse me, but when he ‘heard that sound’ was AFTER the building was covered by a huge amount of heavy cement-type materials and it was beginning to collapse. This often causes loud ‘booming’ sounds.
I have witnessed more than one major building being blown up for construction purposes and the explosives are “SNAP’ sounds not deep booms. It literally hurts your ears even far away.
@#1
I was in one of the twin towers a few years before 9/11 and echo your sentiments. I had recently toured the Empire State building and marveled at its clean, Art Deco lines and solid craftsmanship. Plus, the Empire State building was right smack in the middle of downtown Manhattan, whereby the towers were a bit more remote.
I felt a little faint in the towers, feeling the building sway, exactly as you described. All I could think was, cheap, cheap, cheap. And ugly, too. On this, Howard Kunstler and I agree. Modern architecture sucks. I no longer read Kunstler because I got tired of his missives and yearning to return to horse and buggy days. But truth be told, if it hadn’t been for Howard, I never would have met Elaine. He is why I ended up here in the first place.
Most people are too busy to see through the haze of misty fog the elite are constantly spewing forth. We are trying to find or maintain secure employment, raise children, pay bills, care for aging parents, maintain our homes, etc. Until my career ended around nine years ago, I swallowed their crap hook, line, and sinker. But even then, the veil was slowly being lifted. Right after 9/11, the fact that none of the explanations made any logical sense really bewildered me. So in many respects, I am happy my career ended (although I make far, far less money now). I now devote probably too much time reading and analyzing what is really going on and questioning everything. Elaine has been my guide in all of this, so thank you for that.
I am about through with Alex Jones. He is unrelenting in kissing Donald Trump’s ass and will not face the reality that we have been betrayed. I think it is time for Alex to hand over the majority of the reins to his younger, capable staff, who seem to have their fingers on the pulse of what is going on today.
Climate is always in flux. Hence it is easy to throw the ‘CC’ term around.
Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Volcanoes can be lumped in, as ‘Extreme Weather Events.’
They are all in on it. Remember the shooting in Roanoke featuring the TV reporter. https://youtube.com/watch?v=lTzNiaTKEiw&t
03:29
Just one example of people, on the actual day, talking about “a very loud blast explosion”. “We looked up, and the building literally began to collapse”
What happened was that the foundations, the support, of the buildings were taken out, with explosives, and THEN the buildings collapsed on themselves because there was NOTHING THERE to prop them up anylonger.
The buildings themselves were not hollow at all. They had a very strong core section around which the outer frame was built.
The ligher part on the frame of the building here is the aluminium cover, the rest is the steel frame built around the inner, much heavier, steel core.
@ # 6
Yes, Alex is entertaining but totally nuts.
@Christian
The buildings were hollow. I know, I was in it several times. Putting the support on the outside was foolhardy. The further up to the top you went in the building, the more you could hear the wind and feel the building move. In fact they were PROUD that it swayed in the wind.
A strong base didn’t help that the upper levels had no interior support. The floors NEVER should have pancaked. NEVER. Interior columns would have given people more time to evacuate but then, the buildings would never have been so tall.
Thanks for that very appropriate selected info, @Christian. It directly contradicts the lie that “nobody heard any explosions”. And it disproves the popular hyperbole about a “pyroclastic flow”. In a real pyroclastic flow, i.e. from a volcano, people do not walk around taking pictures. Dust, yes — pyroclastic, no.
And the buildings were designed to be just a little bit flexible. Some of the newest buildings like that have an active counterweight system in the mechanical space on the roof, that keeps them steady. The twin towers were a little flexible so they didn’t just snap off in a high wind.
Sorry Mel, as you can see from the pictures the main support system was on the inside, the outer frame was solid but complimentary. The skyskrapers were basically a core heavy rod system with an outer metal shell, not the other way around. Yes, from my understanding there were elevator systems built inside the core beam system.
If what you say is true, then these supporting beams in the middle of the building, clearly visible in this picture, did not exist.
I still think, based on the evidence at hand, that the base foundation of the supporting pillars in the middle were blown up, at bedrock level or as close to that as possible, removing the entire support of the buildings and gravity did the rest.
Another picture of the inside core with stairs and elevators, and the outer office spaces behind the steel and concrete outer frame.
That wasn’t interior support you are seeing.
It was 2 large ELEVATOR shafts along with escape stairwells (snort). HOLLOW. It was hollow except for outside support. If it was as enforced as you think it is, there would be no story of an heroic window washer smashing through DRYWALL.
Did you ever visit the building?
The core was NOT SOLID AT ALL. It was effing elevator shafts! These are hollow and go all the way to the lowest basement. Far from being ‘super strong’ it was super weak. What really irritates me is how people brush aside the fact that this was over 100 stories of cement and steel poorly designed and the weight of all this was many, many tons.
Cement turned into dust has great weight. Go pick up a bag of cement if you don’t believe me. Weighs a lot more than a bale of hay!
I know people are very, very invested in these make believe games because they think they are very smart, they ‘outwit’ the ‘experts’ but I happen to be enough of an expert to know, on my own information, what is reality.
I know people will attack me when I talk about reality. It hurts. The people who died on 9/11 shouldn’t have died because the US knew the jets were hijacked half an hour before they hit Manhattan and did nothing.
While the buildings were falling to pieces, Bush knew and read a book and Cheney sat with his feet on his desk. Neither moved until the Pentagon wa hit but then lunatics are pretending THAT never happened, either.
Sheesh.
And….all this stupid conspiracy stuff allowed the real criminals to escape! No one wanted to talk about 9/ll after being assailed by 9/11 conspiracy nuts. They killed the talk that might have led people to understand how Cheney and Bush Jr were in on the attacks via the ‘open door’ business.
Right now, we are debating the ‘open door’ shit and guess what? Our Real Rulers are demanding we take in endless Muslim terrorists or else! This is what the French election is all about, too.
I am all about this, too.
07:15
“You heard a loud explosion?”
“it sounded as if a hundred of those [blast cap?] firecrackers were lit up all at once. That’s what it sounded like.” “It sounded like the finale of the 4th of July over the East River.”
08:19
“John, just some seconds ago there was a huge explosion and it appears right now as if the second WTC Tower has just collapsed”
So in BOTH cases of the towers collapsing eyewitnesses reported “huge explosions”.
And that is not even touching the collapse of the WTC 7 building.
09:15
Oh and do note how Fox news interview a supposed Joe Blow witness who already knew the official explanation that the “towers collapsed mostly due to structural failure because the fire was too intense”.
No Elaine. The reason nobody wants to take the 9/11 criminals to account is that the entire system is corrupt. Americans are simply not prepared to take that task on and admit they are living a lie. Easier to just go on as normal.
As we have said many times here, NOTHING in the official story holds up to scrutiny. Every single aspect of the attack implies government involvement or culpability.
Blaming 9/11 bombs in the building for not taking action is just a cheap excuse. The truth is, most Americans don’t want to know. They prefer their illusions, they identify with their programming.
Structural support gave way along with live electrical wires and other interior supports. Yes, pancaking floors would sound explosive. Don’t you think?
Joe Blow was just stating what he witnessed. What we ALL witnessed on that day.
I saw the ruins, first hand. The outside structural support was blown outwards due to the collapsing floors inside the structure.
It’s the same thing with the Dubya Bush banking fraud years. Everybody knows the US citizens were taken to the cleaners for $Trillions worth. And yet nobody has done ANYTHING about throwing the perpertrators in jail.
Which means the criminals are at large and stealing EVEN MORE MONEY right now.
THere is no difference. Americans DON’T WANT TO KNOW. They genuinely 100% prefer that the US president kills innocent Muslims overseas as a distraction. Look at Trump, he rose in approval for firing Tomahawk missiles based on Al Qaeda lies.
That is how screwed up America is right now.
So yes, blame Muslims. And yes, Americans are NOT brainwashed, only the people in North Korea are brainwashed. Only stupid commies and Islamists can possibly be brainwashed. Nobody living in free and democratic USA can possibly be brainwashed.
Jeez.
The firecracking sounds across the river may well have come from the pancaking floors.
The blast explosions, however, that preceded the pancaking are not explained by pancaking sounds.
The elevator shafts were made of what, Elaine? Cardboard? You can see, if you bother to look at Christian’s picture, they were made of structural steel. Quite a lot of it near the ground, and thinner at the top.
So, there’s that, and there are the statements of people who were there. Some of them were knowledgeable people, like the building engineers or Mr. “decided to pull it”. They weren’t just shlubs hearing noises like fireworks.
And as Christian has pointed out, we just had a whole decade of broad-daylight crimes of the elites. Nothing has been done about them. And by now it is clear that Mr. Trump has no intention of “draining the swamp”.
So that’s where we are. This propaganda stuff obviously works, along with a large cohort of people making money off of disaster capitalism.
America is just going to have to marinate in its own rot for a bit longer, until the whole mess collapses.
Good lord, take the percentage of steel in the core of the building and…it is less than 10% of the building’s weight and strength! The elevators structure is totally HOLLOW.
All the towers being built the last 40 years are hollow giants. This fact is not told to people. I worked in pre-WWII towers in Manhattan, once, next door to the Empire State Building and my office looked at it and I was on the 48th floor…and those buildings are ‘rock solid’ and very hard to bring down.
All the modern towers are laughably easy to ruin.
I’ll take the testimony of actual architects over your anecdotal impressions any day.
But, it doesn’t matter, because there won’t be any swamp-draining this time around, either. I’m expecting Trump to announce he is starting a ‘Ministry of Truth’ any day now.
The fact that high-rise buildings are swaying in a strong wind says nothing about whether these skyscrapers are solidly built or not. My brother taught for 1 year in Hong Kong, and he spent several nights in a very high skyscraper during a strong typhoon. His room near the top was swaying about 2 or 3 feet in the wind. And no skyscraper in Hong Kong collapsed during the typhoon.
There is no possibility that 2 airplanes crashing in 2 skyscrapers would collapse them. Steel beams whose fusion point is 1700 Celsius do not melt with kerosene burning at 700 Celsius. Many firemen on the site of the World Trade buildings heard explosions. And when thousands of engineers, physicists, architects say that the official story of the collapse of the World Trade center buildings is a fairy tale, we should believe them rather than believe the amateurs who disagree with them, no matter how clever these amateurs are.
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/stockbauer1.html
And when thousands of engineers, physicists, architects say that the official story of the collapse of the World Trade center buildings is a fairy tale, we should believe them rather than believe the amateurs who disagree with them, no matter how clever these amateurs are.
And when the entire tale surrounding 9/11 is a fairy tale, why would this one piece, demolition as part of the attacks, be the one part that is not a fairy tale?
Look at the crap resulting from 9/11
– Patriot Acts
– 100% Zionist control on all US systems
– Homeland Security and a horde of contractors and alphabet agencies set up to control, not protect, US citizens
– Invasion and destruction Afghanistan
– invasion and desctruction of Iraq
– Heroin trade (Dubya adding Far East heroin to the Bush family’s Central American cocaine trade)
– Rampant global Wall Street fraud
– Rampant theft of US dollars to ‘Fix’ said fraud (but no criminal convictions)
– starting new round of Rampant Fraud with fresh loot in a FAKE Free Market (ie a controlled) system immune to loss for the big insiders, ongoing today
– destruction of Sudan
– destruction of Libya
– destruction of Syria
– creation of ISIS
– destruction of Yemen
– destruction of Ukraine
– destruction of what was left of Palestine
– destruction of the UN and international Law
– complete surviellance state with the government sucking up ALL information about it’s citizens
– destruction of the MSM, what was left of it
– 24/7 basically unchallenged MSM propaganda
– desctruction of any genuine competition, Trusts and corporations ruling all as part of the Government protected system
– legal immunity for any crime if you are an insider elite
– corrupt FED, SEC, FBI, CIA, NSA etc etc etc officials and Military generals and enlisted men.
and so on. And guess what?
Putin is bad.
Russia is a fascist dictatorship.
Iran is bad.
Israel is a victim.
Illegal immigration is the root of all evil.
Liberals are leftist.
Black people are stupid.
White people are racists.
Climate change.
Assad is a dictator.
Kim Jong Un is an unbalanced dictator who threatens the US with nukes.
@#5,
A couple of more obvious notes about Barry Jennings’ testimony: the explosions he heard were while he was still IN the building. If they had been the sounds of collapse, he would not have escaped.
Also in his account, he was delayed getting out of the building because the stairwells were blown out. The firemen had to get a ladder in so he could climb down. That was peculiar damage for the alleged cause of falling debris outside: the stairwells were deep inside the structure.
… worth noting, this was the building of which Silverstein said they “made the decision to pull it”. He later tried to back-pedal that statement, but it is still out there.
Oh yeah forgot
Pussy riot
LBGT
Antifa
All such vital, vital, issues for the health of our socities.
u 9/11 nutters are an insult to Elaines fine mind , you can only talk about it in these internet micro communities , you try that crap with normal people and see how far you get. she should boot you off and maybe the better respondents will come back .
Elaine said: There is one guide in this insanity: one has to look at ‘what happens next’ and thus, discern what is real and what isn’t real.
Not much help there Elaine, though I shouldn’t expect any assistance in discerning truth.
Epistemologically, we cannot know absolute truth via rational examination because our factual knowledge is limited. Even assuming perfect ratiocination, unimpaired by emotion or false logic, our limited knowledge precludes absolute certainty. Virtually all of us are imperfectly rational, and additionally we labor not only under the absence of facts but suffer incessant propagandization, the continuous presentation of falsehoods.
If there is a method of accurate human discernment it has to be of different order than the rational, or analogue to it.
I once intuited that if only could humans readily discern lies, our culture would change overnight. Once others stopped lying to us and we stopped lying to ourselves, our sole recourse would be to discern reality, however impaired our ability. I also intuit that this would represent a frightening, if not terrifying, scenario to most of us.
PS: I stopped paying attention to 9/11 theories after carefully reviewing the collapse of Building 7. Can everyone say ‘controlled demolition’?
PPS: Some things ARE (or become) obvious, institutionalized governmental lying is one of those things.
PPPS: Since we are in general agreement on this site that government controls the masses by continual, perpetual disinformation, dishonesty and forgery, then prima facie we cannot accept the conclusions of the 9/11 Commission Report.
Moe , finely written and it got you nowhere., From the perspective of the perpetrators hijacking 4 jetliners and crashing them would have been enough to produce ‘9/11’ ‘the building collapse was a bonus. Simple stuff eh?
@33 ziff
I would not concur with your assessment that ‘it got you nowhere’. Here’s where it got me: the truth is not disseminated by government and I am responsible for its assignation.
In continuation from my comment above: let’s limit this comment to the US Federal Government, though it is applicable to all governing bodies.
Government consists of many different players, personalities, agencies etc., and agendas can and often do vary between them. All can disseminate (mis)information, often contradictory.
Possibilities of accurate governmental information dissemination are limited to three: the government tells the truth all the time, the government lies all the time, or the government lies some of the time.
Does anyone on this site believe government tells the truth all the time? All one has to do is examine the record to perceive the many times government has lied to US citizenry. It is also obvious that government can and does present verities. An example would be warnings for evacuation pending a natural disaster.
We are left with the uncertainty of the extensiveness of governmental lying. This is impossible to directly and objectively discern since governmental operations are largely opaque. But if we couch this dilemma in personal terms the resolution is obvious. If you knew a person who was known to lie, but not all the time, how could you possibly determine when he/she was telling the truth? Obviously, you couldn’t and would have to treat any pronouncement by this individual as a potential mistruth. All statements would have to demonstrably proven before accepted.
This is precisely the attitude we must assume when subjected to any and all government pronouncements. Reagen purportedly stated: “Trust, but verify.” I think this is foolhardy disposition to assume with government.
Safer to ‘ trust none, verify all’.
fair enough Moe, we will leave it there.and maintain sanity
There is a further consequence resulting from the propensity of government to lie. Individuals privy to some element of truth that is contested by government disinformation can begin to suspect the government in many or all of its pronouncements. This is fertile ground for the formation of conspiracy theories. Of course, many of these theories are also likely to be products of government disinformation generated to further muddy the waters.
But I think there could also be a reactionary component whereby the suspicious (paranoid?) citizen assumes the obverse of government pronouncements. If the government states the Earth is round, why it must be flat! (Check it out: lots of Flat-Earth prognostications out there). If they say they traveled to the moon, well it must have been faked events shot on a Hollywood sound-stage. If the 9/11 Report states that Saudi terrorists brought down the towers, well then it must have been a controlled nuclear demolition, or antigravity waves, or whatever. If the government pontificates about global warming, it must be getting colder! (Oops: that’s one of Elaine’s theories. Happens to be one of mine too). The problem with this reactive formulation is that the agenda is solely controlled by government since they present the initial postulation, largely believed by the populace, and protagonists automatically are labeled as loons. More damning is that little investigation and proof-gathering is performed to counter the proposition.
One more thing before I retire for the night (and I have a long travel day tomorrow). In comment 32, I remarked on the anxiety humans would experience if lies were no longer effective. (In truth, I believe it would drive many people, at least temporarily, to psychosis). This trepidation would occur I believe because we are cowardly, and I do not excuse myself from this judgment. Some of humanity are capable of physical courage or the courageousness necessary to suffer travail in pursuit of a worthy goal. But few of us have moral courage, which is much more difficult to embrace and express, and the results of which much more likely to incur the admonition of our fellows. Just as freedom from lies would free the world, more so would the inculcation of courage.
When one really wraps their head around our bloody history of elite orchestrated crimes via the government in Iraq, Vietnam, slavery or numerous other adventures in South America or Africa, an inside job on 9/11 does not seem out of the ordinary at all. I am at a loss, as to why an intelligent person would believe this time would be any different.
The true and stupid 9/11 lie was ‘the government didn’t know nothing’. Then they let all the Saudis fly out when all others were forbidden to fly. That is the key moment: the Saudis were allowed to fly and not even Congress people were allowed to fly.
That was insane. And they lied about this until forced to tell the truth. the ‘bombs in the building’ were a scam designed to fool people into thinking other things happened and thus look insane or stupid.
Focus on the real stuff, please. Why on earth did our government let all the Saudis flee without questioning them? Think!
“The true and stupid 9/11 lie was ‘the government didn’t know nothing’. ”
On that we can agree. Government dindu’s.
Lots of other things happened, but they want to spray a little perfume on this rotting corpse of an empire and tell you nothing is wrong.
yup. And they wanted a war with an innocent bystander.